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CU Medallion [58376]
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Notre Dame - I don't get it.
Jul 19, 2022, 10:35 AM
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How in the world are they in any position to demand, drive, or influence jack s#it? How on God's green earth is their brand that strong anymore? Look, I'm old, and I fully understand Notre Dame's place in college football history. I know all about Knute Rockne and "win one for the Gipper", and as a kid I remember Notre Dame's glory days under Ara Parseghhian in the 60s and 70s. I was at Death Valley when Dan Devine showed his ace. I remember all too well Lou Holtz'z success there. Oh, and I saw Rudy (great movie). And on and on. Congratulations to them. But what about recent, more relevant history?
Over the last 20 years, factoring in their 2 years of vacated wins for cheating, they have averaged 7.65 wins per season. They have had 4 top 10 finishes over that span, with zero National Championships (compared to 8 top 10 finishes and 2 National Championships for Clemson). Go back even before that, and the Golden Domes had really lost a lot of their lustre with poor of mediocre play over the years. There are certainly other programs with much more impressive recent, relevant history.
So, while somebody like me who remebers very well when we were just "little ole Clemson" and Notre Dame was a true, legitimate behemoth on the field with an unparalleled history behind them, why would anybody under 40 years old, maybe 45, view Notre Dame as some significant, crucial player in the current college football world? I understand if somebody actually attended Notre Dame, or grew up near there, or maybe even if they are catholic (even though I seriously question that), but how on earth is Notre Dame's brand still capable of driving much of anything on a national level?
I know money is driving this whole conference expansion (or not) and realignment madness. I know that means TV/media money and contracts, and I know those guys have research departments that have analyzed market data and demographics and everything else inside out and twelve ways from Sunday, so it is what it is. I still don't get it when it comes to Notre Dame, and how they could possibly hold up any significant move or decision, or why the rest of the college football world wouldn't just move forward with or without them, with no looking back.
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All-In [30766]
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where you been the last 80 years
Jul 19, 2022, 10:42 AM
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any time there was any discussing about power 5 football you had the the conference commissioners from all 5 conferences AND notre damne.
ND ALSWAYS got special consideration because no 1 has the fortitude to tell them to pound sand.
THEY CAN NOT Survive without a conference but we keep letting them dictate policy.
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All-TigerNet [13036]
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I assume you are referring to the BCS and the CFP
Jul 19, 2022, 10:59 AM
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but telling ND to "pound sand" means potentially leaving 10s of millions of dollars on the table. That's why it hasn't happened.
Sure that may have forced ND to join a conference, but you also have to consider that for most of the past 25 years the B1G might have been the only conference in favor of attempting to force ND to join a conference since that's always been their most likely landing spot. Why would the SEC, Big XII, or Pac 12 want to force ND to join the B1G?? The ACC has had a little skin in that game since getting ND to sign on to the 5 games a year contract, but that's been a relatively recent development.
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All-In [30766]
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and all the bowl games in between***
Jul 19, 2022, 4:28 PM
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All-TigerNet [13036]
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They still bring a bunch of eye balls
Jul 19, 2022, 10:44 AM
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Their games always get big ratings. Simple as that.
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All-In [30766]
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so does Mama june not to hot
Jul 19, 2022, 10:48 AM
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big deal..
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Orange Blooded [2032]
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Re: They still bring a bunch of eye balls
Jul 19, 2022, 10:51 AM
[ in reply to They still bring a bunch of eye balls ] |
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22% of the US population claim Catholicism as their faith...
31.5 million Americans claim Irish ancestry as well....
A certain percentage of both of those groups that care about college football claim Notre Dame as their team...
For comparison sake - there are 547,000 living Michigan alums...a similar amount for Ohio State...
Way more Catholics or Irish heritage folks than alumni for any given university...
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All-TigerNet [13036]
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Not only that, but college football fandom is fairly
Jul 19, 2022, 11:08 AM
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hereditary. If Grandpa was a ND fan back in their glory days, he probably raised his kids as ND fans watching Lou Holtz, and now he has grandchildren that have been exposed to ND their entire lives.
I grew up as a Clemson fan because of my family, not because Clemson was good or relevant in the CFB world at that time. I was 8 years old in 1990 and that's the first year of Clemson football i have any memories of at all. The thing i remember the most, that made the biggest impression on me back then, was the 1991 Cal debacle. I remember how disgusted my grandfather was and him going on a rant about Ken Hatfield (i didn't even know who Hatfield was until that moment).
Anyway, most of my time growing up as a Clemson football fan was in the early to mid 90s when we stunk. I heard stories of the glory days from my family and even though those glory days were only 10-15 years prior, rather than 30+ years for ND, that wasn't any more relevant to me at the time. I was a Clemson fan because i grew up in a Clemson family... plain and simple.
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CU Medallion [58376]
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Good answer, probably explains a lot of it.
Jul 19, 2022, 11:16 AM
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Aside from the idea that it's catholics pulling for a catholic school, still hard to figure how a school that small (10,000?) has such a massive fan base and $$$ capable of holding up the entire world of college football, especially since they haven't been super relevant for much of the last 30-40 years.
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CU Guru [1921]
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Re: Good answer, probably explains a lot of it.
Jul 19, 2022, 5:45 PM
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Catholics, Irish, Lou Holtz. Everybody loves em'.
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Trainer [46]
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Re: Good answer, probably explains a lot of it.
Jul 20, 2022, 2:45 PM
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I don’t believe all Catholics are ND fans. I’m sure there are Clemson fans who are Catholics. Same for every other college football team. That being said, it does not explain the media/fan fascination with the Irish. In the past they have used the PR department to their advantage.
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Orange Blooded [3041]
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MVP [533]
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Re: Not only that, but college football fandom is fairly
Jul 19, 2022, 2:58 PM
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Until the new breed of ###### was spawned: the "front running collegiate fan" who routes for multiple schools depending on the sport, popularity & recent success-
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Varsity [214]
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Re: Notre Dame - What's there not to get
Jul 19, 2022, 10:49 AM
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The answer is very simple. There are 30 to 40 million (estimate) Catholics in this country, and ND has a large built in market advantage over just about everyone.
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CU Medallion [58376]
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Okay. Not being Catholic, I guess I just can't relate.
Jul 19, 2022, 11:09 AM
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Does it not matter that most of the players and coaches are NOT catholic (or of Irish heritage), and really don't givadam?
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Orange Blooded [3049]
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I agree with you, but a prime example
Jul 19, 2022, 12:44 PM
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is my brother-in-law. He immigrated from Ireland as a teenager and is a huge ND fan.
He has no affiliation with them other than him being Irish and Catholic...
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Legend [17522]
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Re: Okay. Not being Catholic, I guess I just can't relate.
Jul 20, 2022, 1:44 AM
[ in reply to Okay. Not being Catholic, I guess I just can't relate. ] |
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Does it not matter that most of the players and coaches are NOT catholic (or of Irish heritage), and really don't givadam?
Smiling Tiger® ... Good post and replies. I would answer by saying Catholic high schools are a big brand and represent some of the top football programs in the country. The players may not all be Catholic, but the coaches & administrations are Catholic and steer players accordingly. These schools offer scholarships, eliminate public school district requirements, and can provide other perks that public schools can't offer.
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Standout [314]
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kind of off topic but why doesn't ND have 5 conference games
Jul 19, 2022, 11:09 AM
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scheduled this year? They only have 4. I thought they were contractually obligated for 5.
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Orange Blooded [2746]
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I keep hearing its about their alumni. They have more...
Jul 19, 2022, 11:11 AM
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than anyone else and they're scattered all over the country.
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CU Medallion [58376]
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I don't think that's possible.***
Jul 19, 2022, 11:17 AM
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All-In [30450]
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Jesus be LOVIN' him some Notre Dame
Jul 19, 2022, 11:15 AM
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God will ALWAYS get ratings even when the product is subpar or total crap
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110%er [6858]
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Agree with your post except for Rudy - that movie sucked
Jul 19, 2022, 11:16 AM
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Maybe it was who they chose to play the role, I dunno.
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All-In [36207]
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When you "Touch" your core audience young and groom them
Jul 19, 2022, 11:19 AM
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properly I guess they stay loyal
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CU Medallion [58376]
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Oh no you didn't!
Jul 19, 2022, 11:21 AM
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LOL!
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110%er [5391]
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Re: Notre Dame - I don't get it.
Jul 19, 2022, 11:29 AM
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I am glad that ND is forcing NBC’s hand. If NBC says no to the money demand, ND will join a conference. This all could potentially help settle things for Clemson.
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CU Guru [1868]
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About the catholic thing
Jul 19, 2022, 11:31 AM
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This is and will continue to be less and less of a factor as time goes by. Like it or not, we’re getting less reigious as a society and Catholicism is losing people in the US faster than any other church what with all the scandal and evangelical protestant churches luring people away. A bunch of people who are Catholic don’t practice or they’re from Latin America and have no attachment to notre dame. TV people are blind though and just see the dollars they make now and equate it with future success. Give any other team a dedicated weekly slot on NBC, or better yet, show a marquee conference game each week on NBC . . . Then you’d really find out the value of notre dame . . . And I’d bet the farm that it’s way less than people think
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Varsity [202]
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Re: About the catholic thing
Jul 19, 2022, 11:50 AM
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Historically Catholic communities in America were strongly tied to ethnic roots and functioned with solidarity similar to other minority groups. That solidarity comes with fierce loyalty to institutions that are identified with the group. Notre Dame has benefited from this dynamic over the years. And as one poster pointed out college football fandom is inherited. So lots of people remained Notre Dame fans even if their families barely or never actually practiced their Catholic faith.
Catholicism is losing members for the same reason other Christian groups are losing members, rising anti-religious secularism. The Catholic numbers are dropping faster right now because there have always been a higher proportion of people who called themselves Catholic but who never or barely practiced. Those are the folks who are now dropping out entirely now that it is no longer “normal” to be a Christian in the United States. The devout Catholics are as devout as ever and the same could be said for devout Protestants; The rates of decline are different because people tend to hold onto a Catholic identity even after their practice declines whereas protestants tend to drop the identity when the practice declines.
In any case, I agree with your basic conclusion that Notre Dame is less likely to benefit from Catholic royalty going forward.
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CU Guru [1868]
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Also
Jul 19, 2022, 12:07 PM
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ND’s value is propped up by their privileged position with NBC
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CU Medallion [58376]
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That's exactly what I'm thinking. And again, I know they
Jul 19, 2022, 11:59 AM
[ in reply to About the catholic thing ] |
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still hold mass for the entire team before each game, but most of the players and coaches are certainly not catholic anyway, and could not care less. Seems to me the whole catholic thing is a weak, dwindling factor.
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All-In [30450]
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All-In [43996]
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While I agree that their success on the gridiron
Jul 19, 2022, 12:03 PM
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has not been earth shattering over the last 30 years, they still have a huge following. In terms of TV, they are the largest college football fan base in the country. I suspect that the second largest pales in comparison to Notre Dame. That is why they are in the position they are, because as you said all of this comes down to TV viewership and thus TV contracts.
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Legend [15503]
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Re: While I agree that their success on the gridiron
Jul 19, 2022, 12:07 PM
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Yep! It’s all about the Benjamins.
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CU Medallion [58376]
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Like I've said, it's hard for me to understand how a school
Jul 19, 2022, 2:17 PM
[ in reply to While I agree that their success on the gridiron ] |
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that small, which has not been that great for 30 years, has such a huge following. As for the catholic explanation, that would seem to be less of a factor than ever, and even less of one going forward. Like I said in my original post, I am sure the numbers are there, somehow, for now. I don't question
that. It would have made perfect sense 30 or 40 years ago, maybe even 15; but not anymore so much, and certainly not going forward.
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All-In [43996]
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As someone else mentioned, their popularity is
Jul 19, 2022, 2:21 PM
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self-perpetuating in that they are always on NBC. It's hard to tease out how much of their popularity is due to tradition and Catholic faith, versus the easy access people have to watch their games.
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CU Guru [1868]
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Orange Blooded [3823]
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Re: Notre Dame - I don't get it.
Jul 19, 2022, 3:00 PM
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Reference the Dallas Cowboys. The most popular, but not much performance of late.
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Orange Blooded [3044]
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Re: Notre Dame - I don't get it.
Jul 19, 2022, 3:05 PM
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Check out the movie Rudy for more understanding.
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110%er [6468]
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Re: Notre Dame - I don't get it.
Jul 19, 2022, 6:01 PM
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Well...People watch them on TV. A lot of people. A whole lot of people. Why? I have no clue. Is dang near every Catholic in the country a N.D. fan? Must be.
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Orange Blooded [2403]
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Re: Notre Dame - I don't get it.
Jul 20, 2022, 12:32 AM
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Because there are a lot of Catholics around the country, around the world. And that's no joke.
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All-In [25385]
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S.T., I asked my Dad some years ago why ND had such a
Jul 20, 2022, 5:09 AM
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huge following nationwide.
He replied that pre-TV days most people that listened to collegiate football games on radio were going to hear ND games, and hence, many became fans. Add into that their huge following among the Catholic faithful, then you have a recipe for a solid, national footprint.
There remains a mystique about the Fighting Irish, regardless of their recent win/loss record, that will still pack stadiums. Heck, even as a youngster and as a band member, our Rock Hill High Junior Band's fight song came courtesy from Notre Dame.
I'd bet that a lot of our comrades, who have been or will go to a game in South Bend, will have made or will make the trip just to be able to say they've been there.
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Oculus Spirit [93611]
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Re: Notre Dame should not but they do.
Jul 20, 2022, 6:08 AM
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They have a tremendous size fanbase. It has to do with the catholic religion. USC is the same along with several of the B1G and SEC. Clemson had a huge fanbase when as we walked in the desert of college football for our 30 years.
The difference between Clemson, Bama and OSU now is that we draw audiences who want to see us fail because we 'win too much.'
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CU Guru [1938]
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Re: Notre Dame - I don't get it.
Jul 20, 2022, 2:23 PM
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Wow, sad post. The answer is pretty obvious
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