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I think this argument that we would have a recruiting drop
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Replies: 65  

I think this argument that we would have a recruiting drop

emoji_events [8]
Jun 12, 2012, 4:46 PM

off due to playing Big12 teams is a very failed argument. Who's to say there wouldn't be some recruits who normally choose the SEC due to football prestige but like Clemson? Would some of those not choose Clemson instead because of our campus, atmosphere, coaches AND playing in a football conference?

HeII, Notre Dame hasn't recruited outside the top 25 ranking since 2005 and mostly top 10 and they play at every corner of the dang country. They're playing in freaking Ireland this season.


Message was edited by: CUAtTheFinishLine®


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there are a lot of kids growing up in GA, AL, and FL

[4]
Jun 12, 2012, 4:48 PM

who are picking the SEC because it rules the roost in the southeast....the ACC gets no attention here in Atlanta...it's SEC 100% of the time on tv and in the newspaper...GT hardly gets noticed.

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Um, I believe the coaches are already hearing things from

emoji_events [7]
Jun 12, 2012, 4:49 PM

recruits and parents, so yeah, it's a verified concern.

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Re: Um, I believe the coaches are already hearing things from

[1]
Jun 12, 2012, 5:20 PM

One parent says something and you turn it into a riot.....

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Did you watch the first video?

[3]
Jun 12, 2012, 6:23 PM

I'm thinking no.

http://www.tigernet.com/view/story.do?id=10660

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Do we want players that don't want to play against the best?***

[1]
Jun 12, 2012, 10:01 PM



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The Big 12 is not the best. And the ACC has many more

[1]
Jun 12, 2012, 10:37 PM

programs that have been to the mountain top than the Big 12 has.

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null


Big 12 is not the best but they'll get more money than the


Jun 12, 2012, 10:47 PM

ACC.

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Dabo TOLD a couple reporters today

[2]
Jun 12, 2012, 6:26 PM

That HE HAD TO RE-RECRUIT EVERY SINGLE PLAYER AT HIS CAMP THIS WEEK because of the rumors.. Straight from the horses mouth and some still can't(or won't) get it.

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Re: Dabo TOLD a couple reporters today

[4]
Jun 12, 2012, 6:28 PM

If it such a problem why hasn't TDP, JB. or BOT come forward and publicly and emphatically stated that we are loyal and gracious members of the ACC and will never leave???

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I can promise you this: Recruits pick schools based on

[4]
Jun 12, 2012, 4:57 PM

numerous things.

The schools academics, the coach, the other players...these are all a given no matter where we are.

The conference competition - this can change.

The geography - this cannot. Maybe you think not many recruits care about playing teams in this region (despite all evidence to the contrary), but NO RECRUIT will say "I wanted to play at Clemson because I love playing midwestern schools." It will always, always, always be a negative. Will some recruits want to play against the best teams? Sure. And I say the ACC can be that conference. For those of you who think the ACC will never get better, I say that it's more likely than Clemson moving to Kansas.

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null


But please explain to me the difference between playing

emoji_events [5]
Jun 12, 2012, 5:00 PM

Texas and playing Syracuse. Does it mean our kids love playing in the northeast?

Or for that matter UGA playing Texas A&M. How can they sell that?

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Well, what about the difference in playing Miami and Iowa St

emoji_events [7]
Jun 12, 2012, 5:04 PM

Not hating, but it works both ways.

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Re: But please explain to me the difference between playing

[2]
Jun 12, 2012, 5:20 PM

Thank you for helping make my point. My thoughts exactly. It's a failed argument.

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Difference in South Beach and Iowa? Hard choice there***

[1]
Jun 12, 2012, 6:27 PM



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I don't understand. What's a failed argument?

[1]
Jun 12, 2012, 10:07 PM

Are you arguing that because ONE of the ACC's road trips is unappealing (both in location and distance), that there is no difference between the Big 12 and the ACC? This is amazing. That can't be what you're saying, right?

AGAIN, the distances between Clemson and all other schools involved (in miles):

ACC Georgia Tech Atlanta, Georgia 124
ACC Wake Forest Winston-Salem, NC 208
ACC UNC Chapel Hill, NC 269
ACC Duke Durham, NC 272
ACC NCSU Raleigh, NC 281
ACC Virginia Tech Blacksburg, VA 298
ACC FSU Tallahassee, Florida 353
ACC Virginia Charlottesville, VA 400
Big 12 West Virginia Morgantown, West Virginia 501
ACC Maryland College Park, MD 524
ACC Pittsburgh Pittsburgh, PA 572
ACC MIami Miami, Florida 706
ACC Syracuse Syracuse, NY 850
Big 12 Kansas Lawrence, Kansas 908
Big 12 TCU Fort Worth, Texas 941
Big 12 Baylor Waco, Texas 944
Big 12 Oklahoma State Stillwater, Oklahoma 978
ACC Boston College Boston, MA 983Big 12 Oklahoma Norman, Oklahoma 985
Big 12 Kansas State Manhattan, Kansas 988
Big 12 Iowa State Ames, Iowa 1048
Big 12 Texas Austin, Texas 1077
Big 12 Texas Tech Lubbock, Texas 1252


I would argue that any road trip up to FSU is feasible in a car, and if you really wanted to stretch it, as far as Pittsburgh. That LONG drive would include ONLY WVU from the Big 12. One. ONE Big 12 school is available by car if you want to drive for almost 10 hours one way. By the same criteria, only THREE ACC schools are NOT accessible by car, and again, two of those are great destination cities. Syracuse it the ONLY one that would be a tough sell, and even then, you could experience college football in a domed stadium and POSSIBLY (although admittedly it's a stretch) include NYC in your trip. I would also argue that the Finger Lakes region of New York is a more attractive location (in terms of nature) than ANY Big 12 school except possibly West Virginia.

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null


Re: I don't understand. What's a failed argument?


Jun 12, 2012, 10:09 PM

What is it with you and distances...a conference move is about making more money....fans making road trips is very elementary in the big picture

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Only if you sit on your ### and watch TV all day


Jun 12, 2012, 10:14 PM

Real fans go to as many games as they can.

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so Clemson has about 3-5,000 "real" fans?***

[2]
Jun 12, 2012, 10:21 PM



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My argument's that it shouldn't be.How can you not get this?

[2]
Jun 12, 2012, 10:22 PM

None of us are cheering for Clemson to receive maximum return on its investment. We're cheering for our alma mater, or the team we've always cheered for, for the players that choose to represent our school and against teams that we have over a century of rivalry with. In the 116 years that we have been playing football, we've played 1,151 games, and 11 have been against the current Big 12. We have nothing with them.

Isn't Clemson more than a program for hire, whoring itself out to the highest bidder? Do we really say "who cares?" to alumni that don't live in that region, fans who can't afford to travel to that region, players whose families can't support them in those regions and who will be burdened with that much more travel time, all for a 3-5% increase in our athletic department coffers?

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null


Re: My argument's that it shouldn't be.How can you not get this?

[2]
Jun 12, 2012, 10:26 PM

You are correct with everything u stated...but...that is not the future of college football...we must look to th future and the money that is out there to compete at an elite level...so the school we graduated from or loved all our lives does not become irrelevant.....I understand your concerns but college football is a business

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TU for seeing my side, even if you don't agree. Maybe that

[2]
Jun 12, 2012, 10:31 PM

is the end game - a constant money grab. If that's the case, fans like me will move on - That is not something I'm interested in supporting. I'll send my IPTAY money to the Clemson Fund.

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null


I would bet that Dolfan, like myself, would want nothing


Jun 12, 2012, 10:27 PM

more than it NOT to be about the money but unless the courts change the ruling in favor of the NCAA and allow all TV contracts to be managed by the NCAA and the money spread throughout college football, you can't stop what's happening. You can't stop the wave. You can ride the wave though, right over to the Big 12.

Do you think now that the SEC has an opportunity to solidify its spot at the top of the pecking order, that they're going to forego that and play nice by sharing their TV money with other conferences? How do you think the money issue can be resolved?

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Re: I would bet that Dolfan, like myself, would want nothing


Jun 12, 2012, 10:36 PM

I totally agree...I'm not arguing with you

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We've been saying the exact same thing.


Jun 12, 2012, 10:44 PM

it's the others that are wrong.

Hahahahahaha.

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I've done so many time, AT, but for you, I'll re-state it:

[3]
Jun 12, 2012, 9:55 PM

"The difference between playing Texas and Syracuse"

Well, we're talking about geography, so in that context, this is an irrelevent question. We're not talking about scheduling a home-and-home with Texas. We're talking about joining a conference. So the question is, geographically, what's the difference between the ACC and the Big 12. And I know you know the answer, but for the record: Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Baylor, Kansas, Kansas State and Iowa State are all inaccessible without paying for a plane ticket. West Virginia is the only school that is within a drive, and it is a long drive. In contrast, Clemson is a short drive to GT, VT, Duke, Wake, NCSU and UNC, and a long drive to UVA, MD and FSU.

Beyond those schools, the farther destinations are Boston, Miami and Syracuse. Whereas Boston and Miami would almost certainly require a flight, at least Boston is an incredible city full of history and things to do and Miami is an awesome vacation destination. Syracuse...well, not so much, but maybe it would be neat to play in dome where they serve beer? I dunno...but it's no worse than all of the current Big 12 destinations except for Austin.

In addition, check the statistics on where Clemson alumni are...all up and down the east coast. Virtually none in the Big 12 footprint. So the number of alumni who could go see Clemson play locally in the ACC is significantly higher than in the Big 12. This contributes the additional benefit of being surrounded by fellow ACC fans (meaning fans of other ACC schools, not "ACC fans"), which adds to the rivalries and importance of the game. Further, if you look at our roster, you'll find that Clemson's players are almost entirely from states that are represented by the ACC. I think there's one from California and a few from Alabama, and that's about it. We recruit the ACC region. Also, our students come mostly from up and down the east coast.

I just did one quick check on Expedia. If you're flying from Greenville to Lubbock, and want to "enjoy the game day experience" (meaning not fly in and out of town on the same day), you'll pay about $500 per plane ticket for a one-stop (Houston) flight into Lubbock. Then you'll have a hotel room for each night, say $50 a night because you split with a friend. Rent a car, and you're out about $650 bucks before you've purchased your game ticket. Want to take the kids? FORGET IT. It'd be one thing if you used a Clemson game as an excuse to show the kids Boston or take the family on a vacation to Miami, but try pulling that stuff for a trip to Manhattan, Kansas.

"Or for that matter UGA playing Texas A&M. How can they sell that?"

I'm not worried about UGA or Texas A&M, or SEC marketing in general. I will say that there are numerous SEC schools closer to Texas A&M than Clemson is to ANY of the traditional Big 12 schools. Actually, all of them except for South Carolina and Florida. Also, Georgia isn't in the same division as Texas A&M. Regardless, it doesn't matter. I'll let the SEC handle their geography and I'll worry about Clemson.

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null


Spot on... good re-post***


Jun 12, 2012, 9:59 PM



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Well, like Mickey said in his blog... 3-5k fans will travel

[1]
Jun 12, 2012, 10:04 PM

to games. you don't make such a big decision for 3-5k fans.

The travel isn't as big of an issue as people are making it out to be.

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Re: Well, like Mickey said in his blog... 3-5k fans will travel

[1]
Jun 12, 2012, 10:06 PM

I agree...why can't some people understand its all about money!!

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Because it's not. If you think college football is all

[1]
Jun 12, 2012, 10:09 PM

about the money, you are missing everything that's great about college football. Best you become a fan of the NFL, or perhaps the S&P 500. Go IBM!

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null


Re: Because it's not. If you think college football is all

[1]
Jun 12, 2012, 10:11 PM

Conference realignment is all about the money....if u don't see that then maybe u need to start buying season tickets to North Greenville College...u can drive to all their away games

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Wookie, we're not making it about the money. It's just the

[1]
Jun 12, 2012, 10:17 PM

way it is. the courts already ruled in favor of teams (ND) and conferences to negotiate their own TV deals. If you think that money won't make a recognizable difference in recruiting, then be glad that ignorance is bliss.

Bill Moyer interviewed the head of the Norman Lear Center at USC and they were talking about how TV has come to control Presidential debates. There are a lot of parallels with college football. Back in the day, debates were run/controlled by an unbiased media and they held the debaters accountable. Once TV came in to it, the moderators don't control the debates anymore. It's all about the sound bite. In fact, nowadays, candidates will actually attack the moderators for asking tough questions and THAT becomes the story b/c that's what sells and instead of the league of women's voters controlling the debates, now it's Ford and Microsoft and Verizon or Virgin Atlantic.

It really is all about the money.

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You're forgetting that the Barker/Dabo lovers are kool aid

[1]
Jun 12, 2012, 10:26 PM

drinkers. They are delusional, deeply in denial, and irrational. ANYTHING Barker or Dabo say is fact & gospel, regardless of the facts & evidence. And no matter how much common sense, nor rationality, nor logic you use with these folks, they will stick to their delusions. .

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Re: You're forgetting that the Barker/Dabo lovers are kool aid

[1]
Jun 12, 2012, 10:30 PM

groundhog day

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How many have you heard say they chose Clemson


Jun 12, 2012, 10:08 PM

because they wanted to play Wake, Duke, etc and now Syracuse and Pitt? They'll be knocking down the doors. LOL!

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Cool. Let's make a bet. If we join the Big 12, I'll

[2]
Jun 12, 2012, 10:11 PM

bet you $1,000 per season on whether or not we land a recruit that says "I chose Clemson because I want to play Iowa State, Texas Tech and Kansas!"

Surely...SURELY you guys aren't fooled by your own arguments? You can't possibly think that the ACC has "dog" schools but, to a recruit in this region, the Big 12 does not. Right?

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null


Re: Cool. Let's make a bet. If we join the Big 12, I'll


Jun 12, 2012, 10:13 PM

We need more money to compete with our rivals....this whole realignment has nothing at all to do with other teams

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usc-e isn't all of a sudden beating us across the board b/c

[3]
Jun 12, 2012, 10:19 PM

or money. it's gotta be a curse.

;)

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I'm waiting to hear the FIRST recruit ever to say they chose

[1]
Jun 12, 2012, 10:24 PM

Clemson because of the opportunity to play Wake, Duke, NC St, Va, etc. etc. but surely you must remember a few, don't you?

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Tiger5, you're making my point for me.

[1]
Jun 12, 2012, 10:27 PM

You started with the comment that recruits don't come to Clemson to play Wake, Duke, etc. My counter is, no, probably not, but neither will they ever come to play Iowa State, Kansas, Texas Tech, Kansas State, etc.

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null


And they will NOT not come to CU for that nonsense either.***


Jun 12, 2012, 10:29 PM



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Would you rather play Texas, Oklahoma, and FSU or

[2]
Jun 12, 2012, 10:30 PM

VT, GT, UNC?

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Honestly, VT, GT and UNC. AND I would rather face

[2]
Jun 12, 2012, 10:33 PM

VT, GT or UNC in the ACCCG in Charlotte with 50% of the stadium minimum being orange-clad Tiger faithful than play Texas in Dallas for the Big 12 championship where 8,000 fans go and the rest say "well, I want to go to the bowl game if we win so I'll watch this on TV."

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null


You are the fan of mediocrity that Lowcountry's been

[2]
Jun 12, 2012, 10:36 PM

talking about.

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If that makes you feel better to insult me, go ahead.

[1]
Jun 12, 2012, 10:46 PM

But I thought we were having a pretty good argument.

I am not a fan of mediocrity, but I am not soley a fan of "wins". I am a fan of Clemson. I will never understand how you guys get yourselves so worked up over whether or not we've won every single game and how it's so unacceptable when we lose one. We all want to win them all, but complaining on Tigernet about how a loss to so-and-so is "unacceptable" is not helpful. At the end of the 2011 season, there was not a single undefeated football team in all of D1A, D1AA, and D2. That's over 400 schools and not one went undefeated, and all of their fanbases can point to things that they could have done differently to be undefeated. It's just sport.

By the way, Texas was pretty average last year.

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null


Its not an insult its the truth. You said it yourself.

[2]
Jun 12, 2012, 10:49 PM

You would rather play 3 mediocre teams instead of FSU and 2 "blue bloods" of college football.

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Ha. Okay, if that's how you see it. ******

[1]
Jun 12, 2012, 11:03 PM



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null


Re: You are the fan of mediocrity that Lowcountry's been


Jun 13, 2012, 10:48 AM

wrong know where did he say that!

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Re: Honestly, VT, GT and UNC. AND I would rather face


Jun 12, 2012, 11:03 PM

That is because you want the easiest road to victory and what is most convenient for you (travel).

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No it's not. If you look through all my conference posts

[2]
Jun 12, 2012, 11:11 PM

you'll find that I've never argued in favor of the ACC because it presented the easiest road to victory and I do not believe that to be the case. Texas was mediocre this year. VT has owned us for a decade until this year and GT has been giving us fits for as long as I can remember. I choose these programs because they are strong programs with long histories, road-trippable, have fans and alum that I know and can discuss the game with, etc, etc. You do not know my motivations and don't pretend that you do. By this post alone you are way off. As for convenience, I want was is convenient for all Clemson fans. I want an environment that will foster ongoing fan support and good experiences. I want a culture that will allow dads to take their kids to a game without breaking the bank.

I don't mind people disagreeing with me but don't be lazy about it. Don't act like you know my motivations and just dismiss my arguments based on a flawed perception.

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null


Re: No it's not. If you look through all my conference posts


Jun 12, 2012, 11:14 PM

With these things you want out of a college football experience I really believe you need to look into supporting North Greenville or at least Furman or Wofford...they have the things and environment that you want

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It's starting to look that way. Hopefully Clemson will have


Jun 12, 2012, 11:23 PM

it's IPO soon and that way whatever conference wants our services can coordinate a hostile takeover.

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Re: No it's not. If you look through all my conference posts


Jun 13, 2012, 10:49 AM

And you just want to watch Clemson on TV

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Well then Clemson needs to go where the money is


Jun 12, 2012, 10:44 PM

because we agree that the conference doesn't matter, just the money which is what we are trying to get you to see. It's called business 101 and the Big 12 is the way to go.

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There is just no way you just drew that conclusion.

[1]
Jun 12, 2012, 10:48 PM

Saying that players don't join the ACC because they want to play Duke is not the same as saying that conference doesn't matter. Ugh.

Let's just agree to disagree and move on. We'll see what happens soon enough.

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null


Re: How many have you heard say they chose Clemson

[1]
Jun 13, 2012, 10:21 AM

Most recruits want to go somewhere their parents and friends can come see them play. Playing in the Big 12 would make way games impossible for their friends with not much money.

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7 games per year still in the Valley!***

[3]
Jun 12, 2012, 6:27 PM



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I find it extremely hard to believe***


Jun 12, 2012, 10:00 PM



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it's si***


Jun 12, 2012, 10:14 PM



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it's simple

[1]
Jun 12, 2012, 10:17 PM

It will cost you more than what you gain by joining the big 12. With travel expenses for all of your teams it's not worth leaving.

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what if it doesnt...what if the gain is millions in

[1]
Jun 12, 2012, 10:23 PM

additional revenue? do you turn that down? how does that impact the AD budgets going forward? What if you'd like to add sports but can/can't based on your decision here...what do you if your competition in the SEC for recruits ups their facilities and you can't keep up because of this decision...what if you can't keep coaches because of a revenue imbalance....what if you turn this down and two yrs from now the SEC has signed a new tv deal and they are making $10M more than you in tv revenue...how do you make that $ up?

It's a bit more complicated than travel cost.

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Re: it's simple


Jun 13, 2012, 8:42 AM

we're talking about recruiting. If playing far away was a huge deal breaker for recruits, ND would be the worst place to go.

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ND is s private, very expensive, very good, Catholic School

[3]
Jun 12, 2012, 10:29 PM

The vast majority of the students ARE NOT in state(ers) and ND draws from every corner of the Country, that includes Athletes. That is why ND has a National Audience, is internationally famous, and can play a game in Ireland (it is Irish Catholic)... That is why ND is so valuable, and everybody want them in their conference. Thus, using ND as an example is not a good example.

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Football players go to ND for exposure and to get into the

[1]
Jun 12, 2012, 10:34 PM

NFL. The ACC is a basketball conference, and moving more in that direction. The Big XII is a football conference. CU will get more national exposure and face better competition in the Big XII.

There is no difference in playing Mia, BC, Pitt, or Syr than Texas, OK, Kansas, etc. Few fans are traveling to ANY of those games, ACC nor Big XII. The ones that do will fly.

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Re: Football players go to ND for exposure and to get into the


Jun 13, 2012, 10:52 AM

That's just BS

How many Clemson games are on TV now??????

Exposure my big ole a$$ that sounds just like a coot

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LOTS of ACC players make the NFL ....


Jun 13, 2012, 11:40 AM

I believe the only conference that puts in more is the SEC. ALSO, i believe if a kid is good, a kid is good, and will get noticed no matter what FBS Conference he plays in. NFL has an extensive scouting network that scouts all sources. ALSO, if your really good, and you go to a team that already has "a dozen" good players for a given slot, I would think the tendency would be is to go to team where you have a chance to PLAY and show off your skills....

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