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Oculus Spirit [83064]
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110%er [5665]
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Re: It's nice to see NATO united and a president
Jun 30, 2022, 9:34 AM
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What are you talking about? Biden discussed openly at the news conference today how NATO countries are going to live up to their 2% fair share of defense spending. Some even more than 2%.
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Oculus Spirit [83064]
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He didn't criticize our allies on this issue
Jun 30, 2022, 9:55 AM
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though.
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110%er [5665]
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Re: He didn't criticize our allies on this issue
Jun 30, 2022, 10:21 AM
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That is because it took someone with balls to make them do it - duh. And now Biden is jumping on the Trump train lauding the successes of Trump calling NATO out - and all this was BEFORE the Russia invasion.
So, thanks for pointing out what a visionary Trump was.
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Oculus Spirit [83064]
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Balls can be mistaken for stupidity. We'll always be the
Jun 30, 2022, 11:24 AM
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heavy financial drive of NATO. That's as it should be. I think it should be equitable across the board according to GDP, but it shouldn't be used as a wedge issue.
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Legend [16240]
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Oculus Spirit [83064]
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Yes, and that's the right way to carry out
Jun 30, 2022, 12:05 PM
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diplomacy by encouraging not threatening or by being critical to gain support from your xenophobic base.
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Oculus Spirit [79405]
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Doesn't seemed like it worked too well, given that was 8
Jun 30, 2022, 1:17 PM
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years ago and only 4 more countries have met the guidelines since then.
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Orange Blooded [4016]
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110%er [5665]
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Re: He didn't criticize our allies on this issue
Jun 30, 2022, 9:06 PM
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Well, he talked about grabbing a birthing persons vajayjay. Isn't that enough?
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All-TigerNet [13093]
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Re: It's nice to see NATO united and a president
Jun 30, 2022, 9:40 AM
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Costing the U.S. billions to fight a war against a country that is financing it's military with energy profits from the other NATO countries.
Makes prefect sense.
#liberalsrdumazfk
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Oculus Spirit [79405]
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Is it really a wedge issue when only 8 out of 30 members
Jun 30, 2022, 9:43 AM
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are spending what they're supposed to be? Do you think it's xenophobic to not want to pay for other countries defense when they're not meeting the agreed upon defense spending guidelines?
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Oculus Spirit [83064]
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Yes it is. Diplomacy should be carried out
Jun 30, 2022, 9:59 AM
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In private not in the press or on Twitter.
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Oculus Spirit [79405]
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Obviously whatever diplomacy we've been trying hasn't worked
Jun 30, 2022, 10:05 AM
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since the spending guidelines were set in 2006. Sometimes you've just got to put peoples feet to the fire, one thing I've learned is trying to be nice and keep things low key doesn't always get you the results you want. In fact, it's a good way to get steamrolled in a lot of cases. You could argue his approach may not have been the best, but sometimes you've got to play hard ball.
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Oculus Spirit [83064]
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110%er [5665]
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Re: Playing hardball in private is the answer. FDR/Churchill
Jun 30, 2022, 10:23 AM
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Yeah, that's what happens when you don't have a bunch of treasonist leaker democrats lurking everywhere - you can keep chit quiet.
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Oculus Spirit [79405]
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Oculus Spirit [83064]
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HeII, we sent it all over the globe to get support in our
Jun 30, 2022, 11:01 AM
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war on terror. Which seems to be working. Knock on wood.
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110%er [8981]
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Re: It's nice to see NATO united and a president
Jun 30, 2022, 9:44 AM
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Trump was right again, tried to warn them
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All-In [34575]
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Lying Libbie***
Jun 30, 2022, 9:50 AM
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Hall of Famer [20539]
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Re: It's nice to see NATO united and a president
Jun 30, 2022, 10:09 AM
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Three main styles of engagement on the global stage: alliance-building, imperialism, and isolationism. Isolationism sounds wonderful...until you realize we have critical needs and dependencies all over the globe, and it's durn hard to be everywhere at once...and we are simply not strong enough to smack down every threat to our interests on our lonesome like a giant game of global whack-a-mole.
We are strong. We are not that strong.
Imperialism means you conquer anybody you can, set them up like buffer zones in increasingly large circles around your borders, and all roads ultimately lead back to your capitol and everything you do is ultimately designed to feed that. Russia's always been an empire, even when it was the Soviet Union.
And then there's alliance-building. Which is like herding cats. Which is hard. And annoying. And requires repeated cajoling, nudging, and ego-stroking of only God knows how many utterly willful and disobedient felines, all bent on doing their own thing. God alone only knows what kind of horrifying backroom deal NATO had to make with Turkey and Erdogan to let Finland and Sweden in. We'd all blanch, I'm sure.
The upside of alliance-building, of course, is that they're hopefully there for you when the empires come knocking at your door, and they are not interested in "denazifying" you and turning your cities into rubble. They may not be your best buds, but at least they don't want to kill you either, and if you stand together you can keep the empires out. And you are not having to constantly rough up your neighbors and make yourself a pariah on the world stage to maintain your alliances.
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All-In [38514]
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This is one area where I believe Biden has done a good job.
Jun 30, 2022, 10:11 AM
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Along with Ukraine.
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Hall of Famer [20539]
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Re: This is one area where I believe Biden has done a good job.
Jun 30, 2022, 10:14 AM
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Yeah. He's excelled with the Cold War stuff.
Then again, Joe's a Cold War relic. This game he knows how to play.
Keeping up with the 21st in other areas...err, not so much, IMHO. But this aspect he's done well in and I hope future administrations take note.
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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tolerance of the left***
Jun 30, 2022, 10:18 AM
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All-In [26490]
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If your name is an acronym
Jun 30, 2022, 10:55 AM
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you are probably worthless ...
WHO
UN
NATO
RUN DMC
Slovakia has got our backs ... yay! ... makes me feel safe.
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Oculus Spirit [83064]
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MAGA.***
Jun 30, 2022, 11:01 AM
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Orange Blooded [4016]
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All-In [42122]
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Legend [19900]
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Re: Really?
Jun 30, 2022, 1:27 PM
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B(owe)LM(ovement) gets things going?
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All-In [42122]
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Oh, a poop joke! Clever.***
Jun 30, 2022, 2:02 PM
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All-In [31887]
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Did you just disparage Run DMC?....
Jun 30, 2022, 2:16 PM
[ in reply to If your name is an acronym ] |
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does your stupidity know no bounds??
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: It's nice to see NATO united and a president
Jun 30, 2022, 11:42 AM
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Oculus Spirit [83064]
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Again. We'll always do the heavy lifting. Always
Jun 30, 2022, 11:59 AM
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have. Always will. We should. Having balls I guess means conducting diplomacy in the press and through Twitter. It's just a dumb thing to do.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Again. We'll always do the heavy lifting. Always
Jun 30, 2022, 12:10 PM
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Oculus Spirit [83064]
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Diplomacy has helped keep us safe and out of world wars
Jun 30, 2022, 1:56 PM
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since 1945.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Diplomacy has helped keep us safe and out of world wars
Jun 30, 2022, 2:42 PM
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Oculus Spirit [83064]
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Their leaders and citizens mock us? Oh my. We've also forged
Jun 30, 2022, 3:03 PM
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deals with China and Russia through our history. It has added to our prosperity.
Your whole post reeks of xenophobic paranoia. Isolation and turning our back on our historic allies will weaken us in every way.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Their leaders and citizens mock us? Oh my. We've also forged
Jun 30, 2022, 3:32 PM
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Oculus Spirit [79405]
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Oculus Spirit [83064]
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So, you think we should pull out of NATO? I disagree.***
Jun 30, 2022, 1:57 PM
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Oculus Spirit [79405]
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No, but I don't think we should be funding the majority of
Jun 30, 2022, 2:14 PM
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it either. The security of my neighbor impacts me to a degree, but that doesn't mean I should be footing the bill for most of their security system. These aren't third world countries, they can pull their weight.
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All-In [31887]
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I agree...the US spends by far the most...
Jun 30, 2022, 2:24 PM
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for NATO.
The US spends 260% more than #2-#10 of NATO's top funding countries combined (that's NATO direct spending). It's worse than that if you factor-in total defense spending.
However, absolute $ spending maybe isn't the best measure, which is why % of GDP spent on defense better tells the story or maybe $ per capita. But no matter how you measure it, the US carries more than its share of the burden. Now is a perfect time to try to correct that imbalance.
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Oculus Spirit [83064]
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NATO spending by GDP 2021:
Jun 30, 2022, 3:07 PM
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Top 10 NATO Countries with the Highest Defense Expenditures (by % of 2021 GDP)
Greece — 3.82%
United States — 3.52%
Croatia — 2.79%
United Kingdom — 2.29%
Estonia — 2.28%
Latvia — 2.27%
Poland — 2.10%
Lithuania — 2.03%
Romania — 2.02%
France — 2.01%
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All-In [31887]
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Yep...and a bit deceptive for the smaller...
Jun 30, 2022, 3:35 PM
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economies.
For example, Greece's GDP has been on a steady decline for 12 yrs now. Their actual spending has been on decline too, just not as fast as their GDP has declined. They're spending about half of what they were in 2009 in absolute $'s, which means it would be even less if adjusted for inflation.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Yep...and a bit deceptive for the smaller...
Jun 30, 2022, 4:49 PM
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Orange Blooded [4016]
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CU Medallion [55719]
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Russia achieved what Trump could not. Made the Krauts pay their share.
Jun 30, 2022, 11:43 AM
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All the sudden 2% on defense doesn’t seem like so much.
I will never vote Trump again, but respect the guts he had to say what needed saying to NATO, about Chi-NAH, etc.
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Oculus Spirit [83064]
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Guts can be mistaken for carrying out
Jun 30, 2022, 12:02 PM
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diplomacy in the press and through Twitter.
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Lot o points [155753]
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There’s that ideology-based validation again.***
Jun 30, 2022, 2:43 PM
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Oculus Spirit [83064]
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Yep, I'm of the ideology that our diplomacy shouldn't be
Jun 30, 2022, 4:38 PM
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carried out in the press and on twitter.
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Lot o points [155753]
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Nevermind that Biden had a heavy hand in causing the
Jun 30, 2022, 7:45 PM
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Invasion that you’re praising his handling of.
Joe’s lifting the Nord Stream 2 sanctions was one of the main drivers for Putin feeling emboldened enough to go after Ukraine.
You don’t normally praise someone’s firefighting skills when they caused the fire.
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Orange Blooded [4016]
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Re: Nevermind that Biden had a heavy hand in causing the
Jun 30, 2022, 7:59 PM
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