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Rock Defender [53]
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Fauci has no answers
Apr 15, 2021, 10:55 PM
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CU Medallion [58376]
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That's the problem with Fauci.
Apr 15, 2021, 11:31 PM
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I'm not a Fauci hater - I've never been on that bandwagon. I hear Fox and conservative media rip him apart on a regular basis, and I have not agreed with most of that. In general, I've agreed with his measured, cautionary approach to the covid pandemic. However, this exchange with Jordan brings to light the whole problem with Fauci - he can't set any measureable goals or commit to any way of knowing when we can return to normal. He has to have an opinion on that, he knows about what those parameters are, but either does not want us to return to normal, or is afraid to #### off those who do not want us to return to normal. He simply isn't being honest and forthright at this point, and it further exposes and shines a light on the politicization of this virus. It's not unreasonable to surmize that there are those that do not want it to end.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: That's the problem with Fauci.
Apr 15, 2021, 11:45 PM
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All-In [40875]
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maybe we should try another 15 days to flatten the curve
Apr 16, 2021, 6:42 AM
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covid isn't going away until most of the not vaccinated people get it along with 5 or 10 percent of the vaccinated people
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CU Medallion [73569]
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All-American [587]
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Re: That's the problem with Fauci.
Apr 16, 2021, 3:56 PM
[ in reply to That's the problem with Fauci. ] |
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Because you can't give a number on a country that is this large and divided.
First off, he's said multiple times below that realistically he's looking for <5,000 cases/day and <100 deaths a day before things are "normal". Jim Jordan is just a moron.
Secondly, the reason you can't give some magical number is because of the stuff going on in Michigan right now.
Theoretically, if you were to say <10,000 cases and <100 deaths/day, and 49 states were COVID-free and the 50th state of SC was completely ravaged with outbreaks--would you still say that SC should be able to do whatever they want just like the other 49?
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Oculus Spirit [97676]
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When less than 1000 Americans are dying from it every day?
Apr 16, 2021, 12:59 AM
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Or whenever 1000 deaths a day gets to the point its less onerous than asking Amwricans to make such horric sacrifices like wearing masks. Maybe he could answer the question for Fauci. I would have flipped that question right back to him. How many deaths a day... What level of death is acceptable. There's a level. You tell us.
Fauci is weak. I'll give him that. But if he wasn't and flipped that question right back to the inquisitor, I promise there would be no answer either.
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Hall of Famer [24455]
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I think Jordan would answer it. Without getting into whether I
Apr 16, 2021, 1:55 AM
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would agree with it, based on his previous statements I think he would say:
"We cant measure it by deaths, or we cant ever do anything. Instead, when people are able to make informed decisions regarding known and reasonable risks, as defined at the local level, local govt can, and imo should, decide to no longer impose restrictions on earning a livelihood. Further, when everyone has had reasonable opportunity to be vaccinated, whether everyone has chosen to do so or not, govt is prevented from even making a judgement call. That latter objective target would seem to come in May. For some states, the earlier subjective date has already arrived."
I might or might not agree with that answer. I'm just saying that if Fauci turned the question back to Jordan, based on what we know about Jordan I'm sure that would be his answer. Unless he said, "Your role here is to answer the questions."
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Oculus Spirit [97676]
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So what's HIS number?
Apr 16, 2021, 7:38 AM
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The OP questioned the lack of a number. It's a loaded question because it's a Congressional hearing with grandstanding politicians. I tend to throw loaded questions back at people.
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Lot o points [155704]
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Loaded?
Apr 16, 2021, 8:06 AM
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You're saying that an initiative with no metric for success is a wise one? I believe in the corporate world that would be called a SART goal. You're missing the M.
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Oculus Spirit [97676]
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Re: Loaded?
Apr 16, 2021, 8:20 AM
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Lol. Your first sentence describes our federal government to a T. Heck most governments.
And most wars.
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CU Medallion [73569]
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Ya, but you're defending it.***
Apr 16, 2021, 8:22 AM
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Oculus Spirit [97676]
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What am I defending?
Apr 16, 2021, 9:28 AM
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A weak beaurocrat is grilled by a grandstanding Congressman at a show hearing (what most are), and what am I defending again?
I hate the whole scenario, no matter who's the beaurocrat or the politics of who's grilling and grandstanding.
Whichever party is in charge of whichever house, calls up someone they oppose from the bureaucratic ranks to explain their agenda in a "hearing", while the party of the beaurocrat tosses softballs, the other party in control attacks.
And this is called "oversight".....?
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All-American [587]
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Re: Loaded?
Apr 16, 2021, 3:58 PM
[ in reply to Re: Loaded? ] |
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Epidemiologists have been saying for 6+ months that it was never going to be a VOILA moment and the whole country is wide open. Like it's closed on Monday, then open on Tuesday. This was never the case.
Regardless of what happens with many things like baseball games and football games and concerts etc, we will be wearing masks in planes for the next 6-12 months.
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Heisman Winner [111421]
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Re: Fauci has no answers
Apr 16, 2021, 2:57 AM
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i doubt anyone sat around thinking of dumb questions to back facui into a corner with so they could get social media sound bites to hand out to the rubes. I mean how are you supposed to sit around all day answering loaded questions and not eventually throw a hatchet at a member of congress, one who seeks little more than to undermine confidence in your expertise, solely because your medical advice flies in the face of people's unwillingness to see past next quarter's profits?
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All-TigerNet [13026]
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Re: Fauci has no answers
Apr 16, 2021, 5:49 AM
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Lol. A liberal complaining about loaded questions. Hahahahahahah. God you suck.
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All-In [26968]
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Why is he being questioned like he is on trial or something?
Apr 16, 2021, 6:38 AM
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If he doesn't know a number, he shouldn't make one up. I'm sure there is no set number to provide right now. It's a very complex situation.
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CU Medallion [59982]
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Re: Why is he being questioned like he is on trial or something?
Apr 16, 2021, 6:44 AM
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Load up into the cattle car. Ask no questions.
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110%er [8889]
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Re: Why is he being questioned like he is on trial or something?
Apr 16, 2021, 8:17 AM
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there is no sweeter sound than the cattle car jake brakes when you are dog tired, unless you are going to the camps
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All-In [48962]
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Why is he being questioned like he is on trial or something?
Apr 16, 2021, 7:30 AM
[ in reply to Why is he being questioned like he is on trial or something? ] |
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He can't say a number until he is told one by his handlers {and you know who that is} and they are still trying to use COVID as a control method.
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All-TigerNet [10867]
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Letterman [257]
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As much as I hate Jim Jordan, I don’t think the
Apr 16, 2021, 7:14 AM
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content of the question was out of bounds. When setting any sort of corporate goals or strategy, there have to be metrics for success. We should know by now what the metrics are where it’s ok to open up.
In my mind we never should have shut down, but for those that are pro shutdown, they have to be able to produce some answer as to when this will end.
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All-In [26968]
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Who is shut down is up to local and state governments.
Apr 16, 2021, 7:32 AM
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Mr. Jordan should ask them about that.
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Lot o points [155704]
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He did....about 10 times. Watch again.***
Apr 16, 2021, 7:57 AM
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All-In [26968]
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I apologize...I did not watch at all.
Apr 16, 2021, 8:01 AM
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From context, I thought it was a questioning of Dr. Fauci only. I didn't know he was also questing state and local government officials.
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Lot o points [155704]
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I'll apologize right back.
Apr 16, 2021, 8:04 AM
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Made the mistake of replying before my first cup of coffee and misread your reply.
He did not question local leaders. I disagree that doing so would be the only germaine route of questioning. They take their guidance heavily from the CDC and Fauci's recommendations. It makes sense to have a top down questioning approach.
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Letterman [257]
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Yes but Fauci should be able to produce some metrics
Apr 16, 2021, 11:09 AM
[ in reply to Who is shut down is up to local and state governments. ] |
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that states and localities to use as guidance. In that video all he had to say was it’s high right now, we can open up more once it’s lower. But what defines lower? What is acceptable? Some metrics would go a long way for helping the public understand what the goals are.
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Hall of Famer [20518]
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Re: Yes but Fauci should be able to produce some metrics
Apr 16, 2021, 1:01 PM
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I agree. Jordan's a grandstanding idiot, but Fauci's not exactly covering himself in glory here either.
I'd like to see more in terms of proactivity. It might be time to start moving him out, and I'd maybe look for somebody who communicates better and indeed can set some metrics the public can better understand.
As a really bright guy called Einstein once said, if you can't explain what you're doing, it ain't worth doing.
Doesn't mean the current administration necessarily has to tar Fauci, feather him, and run him out of town on a rail. But Biden would probably be well-served to look for a different COVID Grand Poobah to take point on the bug, you know?
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All-In [42023]
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Re: Fauci has no answers
Apr 16, 2021, 8:03 AM
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This is silly. People who have made Fauci a political issue are silly. Trumpies still hold a grudge against him because he questioned Dear Leader.
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Lot o points [155704]
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I don't care about politics. I defended him quite a bit
Apr 16, 2021, 8:08 AM
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early on, but it's feeling like, more and more, that his directional advice stems from him waking up each morning and putting his finger in the air.
We know a lot more about this than we did a year ago, and yet the advice and guidance provided have somehow become more nebulous.
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All-In [26968]
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We are in a more nebulous place right now
Apr 16, 2021, 8:29 AM
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in terms of guidance. Early on, the advice was more rigid because it was conservative. We didn't know much, so we established a high standard. The question of gradually relaxing the standard becomes the nebulous, complex issue.
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Lot o points [155704]
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How do you figure?
Apr 16, 2021, 8:34 AM
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We know infection rates, transmission rates, initial general vaccine efficacy rates.....
We've amassed an incredible amount of data on this virus over the course of a year....there's nothing factually more nebulous about the virus today than a year ago.
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Legend [17248]
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TU _ always liked the word “nebulous”.***
Apr 16, 2021, 9:28 AM
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Lot o points [155704]
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After dropping it two posts in a row,
Apr 16, 2021, 10:45 AM
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Clearly I do too. Lol
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All-In [26968]
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Not an issue of the virus being factually more nebulous
Apr 16, 2021, 9:30 AM
[ in reply to How do you figure? ] |
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I'm talking about the process of relaxing standards. We've never done this before on this scale.
It can't possibly be as simple as "infection lowers to X%, so lower guidance standards". The reality is probably daily meeting where dozens of metrics are discussed, among a large group of officials, and changes in guidance go through approvals, revision, then more vetting and approvals. It's not fair to try to make someone spit out some simple number.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Not an issue of the virus being factually more nebulous
Apr 16, 2021, 10:12 AM
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All-American [587]
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Re: I don't care about politics. I defended him quite a bit
Apr 16, 2021, 4:00 PM
[ in reply to I don't care about politics. I defended him quite a bit ] |
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He has said before on "Face the Nation" that with mass vaccination done (likely by July), and enough adults immunized, then once deaths get <100 day we should be good to go.
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Hall of Famer [22935]
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It's not Fauci's job to determine when things should open
Apr 16, 2021, 10:59 AM
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He approaches it only from the medical side, and will always err on the side of being more cautious. Is 10,000 deaths too many? 1,000? 100? 10? 1?
It's not his call to determine when things should go back to normal, and therefore can't give that feedback. It's the president's, governor's, or congress' job to make that decision. That's why Fauci always dances around these questions.
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Legend [15730]
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These are cop-outs. He's the one making the recommendations
Apr 28, 2021, 10:12 AM
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on social distancing, limiting gatherings, wearing face coverings, etc.
He is doing that based on surges, infection rates, deaths...whatever. Or if he's not, throw him out of the building and out of government.
I heard it said once that an Engineer is someone who can make with $1 what anyone else could make with $10. Obviously debatable, but a similar thing can be said here. If we have the leading expert on infectious disease providing recommendations, we expect some context to his decisions. If he recommends face masks, social distancing, no groups above 4, etc., etc., FOREVER...until there are NO DEATHS...then he is worthless. Any idiot can make those recommendations.
Are people who die from the Flu okay for Dr. Fauci? Pneumonia? Because that happens every year. He hasn't been telling us to lock down the economy for those. So don't pull the "Well, Mr. Congressman, you tell me how many deaths are acceptable?" garbage.
The Congressman asked a fair question. It would also be fair for Dr. Fauci to point to trends, or vaccination rates, or whatever...or honestly, to even say "I don't know." Although if he did that, I would hope his organization would come up with some guidelines for the next time he's asked. And look...if he drew a line in the sand and then later amended it, based on good analysis, so be it. But don't grandstand as if "How dare you ask that question?". The question is completely appropriate.
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All-In [26479]
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Hes like the king of the swamp creatures
Apr 16, 2021, 11:27 AM
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40+ years behind a government desk
To get to “double masks”
Pitiful
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All-TigerNet [10867]
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Pretty weak by Jordan imo. He accepts Fauci's fraudulent
Apr 17, 2021, 11:11 AM
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premises, so he destroys his own position. Typical Republican, absolutely useless.
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Team Captain [499]
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My thoughts on Fauci
Apr 27, 2021, 9:33 PM
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I think he’s a good man in a very difficult position. What we have to understand is that they were caught flat-footed when Covid came on the scene. Scott Gotley, who is a former FDA chairman, said recently he thinks that the guidelines they came out with were just for the flu and hence the flu is almost nonexistent but the flu guidelines don’t perfectly translate to Covid.
Early on my opinion of Fauci was very high. Is it much lower now? Absolutely. He has made some mistakes. But do you really think someone else could’ve done a much better job? I don’t think so. Science is a crazy thing and always changing, especially with a pandemic that no one really understands. My thought is to give him a break and understand he was put in a very difficult position. Especially when you consider that Covid started with an election months away.
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All-In [46801]
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It's an interesting strategy that Fauci
Apr 28, 2021, 7:48 AM
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spend the last 60 years of his life working to become the best in his field on infectious diseases even heading the government department on infectious diseases
just to trick a bunch of redneck mouth breathers into putting a piece of cloth on their face.
Now that's something.
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