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110%er [5014]
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Just one guys opinion on how this situation was handled
Jun 5, 2015, 2:56 PM
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In my humble opinion, Clemson does not have the easy route they could have had , if D'Rad had a clue how to handle coaching changes.
He may be able to creatively finance facilities and work the media, but the jury is out on whether he knows how to handle coach selection and retention etc. I hope he proves me wrong.
1. Whether you like Jack Legget or not, he put in a bunch of years wearing the school colors, and has been steadily producing head coaches at top level schools along the way. DRad should/could have paid him what it would have taken to have him bow out gracefully on his own terms.
There is no doubt in my mind that "some" of the potential candidates being discussed here will not be interested in the job because of the way JL got the boot.
2. "If" DRad did try everything to come up with an amicable separation, or offered a Head Coach emeritus, or another position in the Athletic department(Like was done for Frank Howard and Bill Willhelm) and JL was unreasonable, then it is DRad's job to be sure that the coaching fraternity knows that.
If Drad did NOT make any real offer, and bend over backwards to work with a guy with the passion that JL has for the job (Face it JL is a stubborn guy), which is what I have been told, then shame on DRad and shame on Clemson.
All JL did was graduate kids, win a lot of ballgames, make it to the College Baseball HOF, do things inside the rules, and be loyal to his kids and his staff. I do not once remember JL hinting he was looking at another opportunity, or taking any "me-first" stances. He deserved more at the end of the road than what he received from DRad, Clemson, and many posters here.
3. There are plenty of reasons that the coaching job at Clemson WILL BE ATTRACTIVE to a lot of guys. I do NOT think it will be a list of guys that have their heart set on becoming the next 20+ year coach at Clemson. For everyone that keeps saying "non-revenue" sports and etc....the coaching staff is even more critical in those areas.
I think DRad is a punk, to have let his go down like it did.
Message was edited by: EssoClub2®
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CU Guru [1851]
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HOF post Esso! Very nice job! Thank you.**
Jun 5, 2015, 2:59 PM
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All-In [29036]
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I honestly don't know how any of us could know
Jun 5, 2015, 3:06 PM
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If he simply fired him, I agree entirely with your post.
If he tried to work with him on handling this better and Jack wouldn't budge or agree, then I don't know what else he was supposed to do.
My guess is the truth falls somewhere in between, and I don't (and likely never will) know where.
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110%er [5014]
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Re: I honestly don't know how any of us could know
Jun 5, 2015, 3:22 PM
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> If he simply fired him, I agree entirely with your
> post.
>
> If he tried to work with him on handling this better
> and Jack wouldn't budge or agree, then I don't know
> what else he was supposed to do.
>
> My guess is the truth falls somewhere in between, and
> I don't (and likely never will) know where.
In my OP I do acknowledge your point. My opinion , is that if DRAD did do all of those things , he still failed by not making an announcement to that effect.
> 2. "If" DRad did try everything to come up with an amicable separation, or offered a Head Coach > > emeritus, or another position in the Athletic department(Like was done for Frank Howard and Bill > Willhelm) and JL was unreasonable, then it is DRad's job to be sure that the coaching fraternity > knows that.
All he had to say , if that was the case,
"We have decided to go in a different direction , and wanted badly to keep a man , who has done so much for this university in "X-Role" . His talents, experience , was something that we wanted to keep! Jack has earned the right to pursue other interests and has elected to do so. We now have some big shoes to fill in our baseball program and our athletic department in general. I wish he nothing but the best in his future pursuits. Thank you Jack!"
DRad blew it either because he didn't offer a solution or he didn't use his "masterful" media skills to convey the message.
Either way , it looks like "amateur hour"... and he should have known better.
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All-In [29036]
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I might be wrong
Jun 5, 2015, 3:34 PM
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But I've never heard of that being said at a press conference for a firing. I've never heard an AD say "We wish we could've kept him" because it's an outright lie. We COULD have kept him. We fired him, and to say that Jack wanted to pursue other positions is a lie. He wanted (quite understandably) to be coach at Clemson. To say otherwise in a press conference, THAT would've been amateur hour and laughable.
He had kind words for Jack, or more precisely he had accurate words about the outstanding job jack has done representing the school, and about his legacy here.
I tend to agree it is a shame that this parting wasn't handled better, but I simply don't know how any of us could feign to know why that didn't happen.
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CU Guru [1639]
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Re: I might be wrong
Jun 6, 2015, 8:24 AM
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agreed. we have no way of knowing. What did you want, "tried to give Jack and easy way out but he was too stubborn?"
No matter what D-rad said he would be critized by some. Think it's bad now watch Tnet explode when the next coach is announced. Think I am wrong, look at what happened when Dabo was hired or Brownell.
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110%er [6321]
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lol...
Jun 5, 2015, 3:34 PM
[ in reply to Re: I honestly don't know how any of us could know ] |
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if he responded like that it would have been more of an embarrassment for Jack. That would be like Jack did not care about Clemson at all. It would have also made the AD look weak because he let the coach call the shot and not the AD.
Plus as thom said, it would make both of them liars.
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CU Guru [1400]
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I disagree
Jun 5, 2015, 3:41 PM
[ in reply to Re: I honestly don't know how any of us could know ] |
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I would have lost a ton of respect for DRad if he would have thrown Jack under the bus like that because it would have really tarnished Jack's legacy at Clemson.
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Legend [19352]
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110%er [5014]
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Re: I honestly don't know how any of us could know
Jun 5, 2015, 3:58 PM
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> So DRad should have thrown Jack under the bus?
Well, if you believe it went down , another way then you would have to say that Jack through Clemson under the bus, by not thanking the administration as he listed off every other element of the Clemson family.
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Commissioner [919]
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Re: Just one guys opinion on how this situation was handled
Jun 5, 2015, 3:07 PM
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I agree 100%. our son was really looking forward to going to his camp in two weeks which has been cancelled of course. Have had the chance to meet him multiple times and he was a really nice man who represented Clemson in the highest manner. Most folks who are so critical never even played this game and have no clue about how hard this game actually is to play. I wish #7 the very best. Great post. Class 82
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Legend [15787]
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Just curious...how do you think it should have been handled?
Jun 5, 2015, 3:12 PM
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I can't come up with a scenario where everyone walks away happy. It is sad that Jack couldn't get us back to where we were once accustomed to being. BTW I think Jack showed class with his statement.
It would be nice to have him remain at Clemson. I suspect tho that Jack has a few more years of coaching left in him.
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CU Guru [1746]
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three things...
Jun 5, 2015, 3:16 PM
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1) solid post
2) not fair to call DRad a punk when we have no idea how it went down. Jack is a stubborn guy and can be a bit of an a-hole at times so maybe JAck didnt do himself any favors in the meeting room. DRad had a heart to heart with him last year too.
3) I cant imagine any Clemson fan not liking or appreciating Leggett, but there is a large part of the fanbase (me included) that understands this is a business and a place like Clemson has high expectations (partly bc of Leggett) and we are pretty far off the mark at this point. Great leaders always make the tough call....hopefully we can get a worthy candidate. At least give DRad credit that he has high expectations for our athletic programs.
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110%er [6937]
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Re: agree***
Jun 5, 2015, 3:29 PM
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CU Medallion [58376]
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110%er [5701]
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Agree, OP's conclusion was based on speculation.
Jun 5, 2015, 8:16 PM
[ in reply to three things... ] |
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Not going to win arguments or others agreement on much of anything with that approach.
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CU Medallion [55300]
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Re: three things...
Jun 6, 2015, 7:14 AM
[ in reply to three things... ] |
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I agree with you a 100%, and firing a coach of Jack Leggett's reputation took Balls. 75% of the Clemson fan base was more than ready for this to happen before it happened, and most of that 75% didn't believe DRad had the balls to do it. But now that he has, his future respect at Clemson depends a 100% on if he can hire the right coach that can get Clemson back in the running for the CWS. If the coots hadn't ever won a CWS, MOST Clemson fans really wouldn't give a crap about college baseball....
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110%er [6937]
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Re: I don't like DRAD, either, but you don't bend over
Jun 5, 2015, 3:27 PM
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backwards to work with hard headed people.. Leggett was a pretty good coach ,at one time .but had become complacent and rather full of himself. He, appeared, to be limited with personality and very set in his recruiting perimeters (I.E. like Wilhelm he tended to shy away from black kids and those caucasians who were not middle class), Sure, you may get more problems but no one said it would be easy. MacDonald at Louisville and the Marylnad coaches are recruiting them and doing ok.
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110%er [5014]
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Re: I don't like DRAD, either, but you don't bend over
Jun 5, 2015, 3:40 PM
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> backwards to work with hard headed people.. Leggett
> was a pretty good coach ,at one time .but had become
> complacent and rather full of himself. He,
> appeared, to be limited with personality and very set
> in his recruiting perimeters (I.E. like Wilhelm he
> e tended to shy away from black kids and those
> caucasians who were not middle class), Sure, you
> may get more problems but no one said it would be
> easy. MacDonald at Louisville and the Marylnad
> coaches are recruiting them and doing ok.
You can't have it both ways, either the guy was a 20+ year employee that performed at an extremely high level and was probably close (if not the ) longest tenured head coach at Clemson, and not expect him to have a way of doing things.
You sure as heck do , bend over backwards" to try to find a way to give a guy that has done so much for your "company" a way to get out gracefully ...even if they are too stubborn to see it. The real problem in today's world (not just athletics) is loyalty means nothing to anyone anymore. People do not work for the same companies 20 years, they don't stay loyal during tough times. No where in any of my postings, have I indicated that a change was NOT needed. I just state, that DRad handled the whole thing like an imbecile.
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All-In [29036]
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To be clear
Jun 5, 2015, 3:43 PM
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You don't know how he handled the actual change.
You just don't like what he said afterwards. I get that, but it's a world of difference.
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110%er [5014]
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Re: To be clear
Jun 5, 2015, 3:47 PM
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> You don't know how he handled the actual change.
>
> You just don't like what he said afterwards. I get
> that, but it's a world of difference.
I just read what the two guys said in their statements.
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All-In [29036]
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Indeed
Jun 5, 2015, 3:50 PM
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But do you honestly believe that prepared statements really contain the details of what happened? They contain the final truth. Clemson and Jack parted ways. Clemson fired him.
What happened prior to that is never going to be fodder for press releases.
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110%er [5014]
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Re: Indeed
Jun 5, 2015, 3:56 PM
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> But do you honestly believe that prepared statements
> really contain the details of what happened? They
> contain the final truth. Clemson and Jack parted
> ways. Clemson fired him.
>
> What happened prior to that is never going to be
> fodder for press releases.
If that is the case , why did DRad make a point to publish the details of Jack's last annual personnel review?
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110%er [6937]
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Re: BS, that philosophy went out the door, several years
Jun 5, 2015, 3:48 PM
[ in reply to Re: I don't like DRAD, either, but you don't bend over ] |
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ago, whether we like it or not. It is now what have you done for me lately? Leggett mumbled. You you are not going to get the big bucks unless you are producing. Our return on investment has been rapidly diminishing.
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Orange Blooded [4791]
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CU Guru [1400]
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The thing is
Jun 5, 2015, 3:38 PM
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we probably will never know how it really went down.
For as strong of a case anyone can make that DRad handled this poorly just as strong of a case could b made based upon his personality and the way he has handled things in the past that Jack very well could have tied DRad's hands. Unless one or the other speaks out about how it went down we'll never know, and I highly doubt that either is going to do that any time soon.
It's been clear for a few years now that something in the program needed to change. If the rumors are true and DRad wanted Jack to shake up his staff and Jack refused then I don't see what other choice DRad had. Insanity is to continue to do the same thing while expecting different results
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CU Medallion [58376]
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It's not DRad's job to let the coaching fraternity know
Jun 5, 2015, 3:48 PM
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anything, and for all we know, DRad did try to make this amicable (and maybe it is) and offer Jack some alternatives, we do not know. DRad really isn't obligated to tell us nor should we expect anything beyond what we've been told.
For the gazillionth time, Jack was a great coach, great for Clemson, and will forever be a Clemson man in the hearts and minds of all true Clemson fans. Having said that, it was time for him to go and DRad has done exactly what needed to be done and handled it well as far as I know.
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110%er [5014]
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Re: It's not DRad's job to let the coaching fraternity know
Jun 5, 2015, 3:54 PM
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> It's not DRad's job to let the coaching fraternity knowanything, and for all we know, DRad did try to make
> this amicable (and maybe it is) and offer Jack some
> alternatives, we do not know. DRad really isn't
> obligated to tell us nor should we expect anything
> beyond what we've been told.
>
> For the gazillionth time, Jack was a great coach,
> great for Clemson, and will forever be a Clemson man
> in the hearts and minds of all true Clemson fans.
> Having said that, it was time for him to go and DRad
> has done exactly what needed to be done and handled
> it well as far as I know.
It is DRads responsibility to protect the reputation of the School. There is buzz all over the place that guys that Jack mentored are not happy with the way Jack was treated , and are not interested in the position. If it is "wrong" that DRad treated Jack poorly... then it sure is DRads responsibility to change that perception. I would say is one of his larger responsibilities. The Michigan coach's comment is one hat comes to mind off the top of my head.
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CU Guru [1400]
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It wouldn't matter what DRad said
Jun 5, 2015, 4:10 PM
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Jack's former coaches were going to be mad. Over the years Jack has built a cult of personality with his former assistants, and judging by your posts and others fans.
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110%er [5014]
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If you have commented in this thread please answer survey
Jun 5, 2015, 4:15 PM
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Which age bracket do belong? [Results]
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15-22 |
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33-45 |
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46-56 |
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56- older |
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CU Medallion [58376]
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Give me some examples of this "buzz". Looking for
Jun 5, 2015, 4:31 PM
[ in reply to Re: It's not DRad's job to let the coaching fraternity know ] |
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quotes and names, or at least how you personally are privy to it if quotes are not available. All I heard the Michigan coach say was "My loyalty is to Jack Leggett". Jack may not have liked being let go, but that doesn't mean he was done wrong, and the coach supporting him that way does not mean Jack was done wrong. You can twist it into that, or jump to that conclusion, but there are other very reasonable possibilities. You still haven't provided any evidence, just a lot of speculation based on you feelings, opinions, and interpretation of what went down.
To be clear, I'm not saying you're wrong, not by any means. I just can't see anything that leads me to the conclusion that Jack was done wrong with any degree of certainty at all.
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CU Guru [1003]
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Re: Just one guys opinion on how this situation was handled
Jun 5, 2015, 3:49 PM
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Well thank goodness it's just YOUR opinion
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110%er [5014]
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Re: Just one guys opinion on how this situation was handled
Jun 5, 2015, 4:01 PM
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> Well thank goodness it's just YOUR opinion
That was a good shot  ...but it isn't like I said anything otherwise , It is indeed Just My Opinion! I gave you a thumbs up for pointing that out again.
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CU Guru [1427]
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Re: Just one guys opinion on how this situation was handled
Jun 5, 2015, 6:06 PM
[ in reply to Re: Just one guys opinion on how this situation was handled ] |
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Actually I agree with most everything he said. I would not have called Drad a punk but other than that, I agree with his comments. I do think that 10 years down the road when everyone looks back, Jack will be much more fondly remembered than will DRad. Jack withstoof the test of time with most, I don't believe DRad will.
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Hall of Famer [23100]
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My Opinion(like it matters)
Jun 5, 2015, 4:02 PM
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Jack was given the chance last year because of everything he's done for Clemson over the years, he DESERVED that. By all reports(including TCI who doesn't like his dismissal at all),Jack was still given the chance to stay this year if made the changes the his boss(the AD) wanted him to make going forward.He REFUSED to make changes, left DRAD with no choice. If DRAD came out and gave a presser stating this, it'd be like high school girls bantering back and forth.
As I've said in other threads, I would have liked to see Jack back next year, a plan was presented to him in which he could, he refused.(his right, but he should also know the corner he was putting his boss in by doing so).Like someone else said, doing the same thing over and over expecting different results is the definition of insanity.
It's a sad time,Clemson has parted ways with a LEGEND. But let's not call the AD a PUNK because he made a decision with one of his employees that (from all reports)REFUSED to take his bosses advice.
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110%er [5014]
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Re: My Opinion(like it matters)
Jun 5, 2015, 4:09 PM
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> Jack was given the chance last year because of
> everything he's done for Clemson over the years, he
> DESERVED that. By all reports(including TCI who
> doesn't like his dismissal at all),Jack was still
> given the chance to stay this year if made the
> changes the his boss(the AD) wanted him to make going
> forward.He REFUSED to make changes, left DRAD with no
> choice. If DRAD came out and gave a presser stating
> this, it'd be like high school girls bantering back
> and forth.
>
>
> As I've said in other threads, I would have liked
> to see Jack back next year, a plan was presented
> to him in which he could, he refused.(his right, but
> he should also know the corner he was putting his
> boss in by doing so).Like someone else said, doing
> the same thing over and over expecting different
> results is the definition of insanity.
I can have an opinion on our AD , based on how he has conducted himself. Going back to the releasing of details of last years ultimatums. Heck, he had every right as AD to give those ultimatums. He had zero reason to let them be published in a newspaper. That in and of itself was a "punk" move. He wanted to appease the fans by telling them how he dressed down the HOF coach . I am sure that how you would like your personnel performance reviews handled. Do you know how much ammo that gave opponents "hecklers" . I use the word "punk" to describe people that I believe go out of their way to flaunt power and disrespect others. I think in this case situation DRad did that, beginning last year. He put out plenty of details , when it was in his best interest.
>
> It's a sad time,Clemson has parted ways with a
> LEGEND. But let's not call the AD a PUNK because he
> made a decision with one of his employees that (from
> all reports)REFUSED to take his bosses advice.
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Devotee [305]
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Fail. Danny Ford did infinitely more for Clemson than Jack
Jun 5, 2015, 5:49 PM
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and he got fired for the same reason. Insubordination. When your boss tells you to do "X" to keep your job and you say "no" the result is predictable ---- "You're FIRED!!"
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Legend [16900]
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Re: Fail. Danny Ford did infinitely more for Clemson than Jack
Jun 5, 2015, 6:00 PM
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You keep posting this same sentiment over and over in different threads but it really doesn't apply. The relationship between an AD and a coach is heck of a lot different than that of a Arby's manager and is fry cook. For that matter Radakovich probably doesn't have sole hiring and firing authority particularly as it relates to the contracted coaches. I don't know this for sure but I'm would imagine when a head coach is dismissed the board has to sign off on the move first. Obviously a tremendous amount of weight is given to the ADs opinion - otherwise why involve him - but it isn't a rubber stamp either. The lack of decorum and his fumbling missteps are gonna do long term damage. He could have parted ways without impugning Jack in the process - regardless of whether Jack "deserved it." That isn't playing well in the baseball fraternity.
Message was edited by: viztiz®
Message was edited by: viztiz®
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Devotee [305]
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Wrong. Insubordination is insubordination and the reality is
Jun 5, 2015, 6:39 PM
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the closer the relationship, like DRad & Jack, makes the insubordination worse. DRad gave Jack clear criteria last year to keep his job. Jack failed, but DRad was still going to let Jack stay, but Jack refused to do as his boss told him. DRad had no choice. Jack called his bluff. Jack lost.
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CU Guru [1404]
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Re: Just one guys opinion on how this situation was handled
Jun 5, 2015, 5:59 PM
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Opinion but you act like you know how the AD did things.
How was this handed poorly?
It was not drawn out. Baseball has been mediocre for years. Teams have not met or surpassed expectations. Each year preseason talk was way bigger than what Clemson showed. Jack had way more talent and support, and way better history and foundation than Coach BB for CU basketball.
Clemson was in a no win scenario to make a change. Part ways with HOF coach or keep a coach who was not getting it done.
Again why do people profess to know or say this was not handled well?
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CU Guru [1142]
TigerPulse: 53%
Posts: 2240
Joined: 6/5/12
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Re: Just one guys opinion on how this situation was handled
Jun 5, 2015, 6:20 PM
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Coach Leggett will land on his feet! There are a lot of concerned former players, campers and coaches praying for him as well as wishing him the best. Since he wasn't given a proper sendoff, why not affix his iconic batting helmet to a stand right outside the Tiger locker room at Doug Kingsmore so future players can rub it before taking the field on game day.
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Enthusiast [101]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 3
Joined: 8/25/13
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Re: Just one guys opinion on how this situation was handled
Jun 5, 2015, 6:44 PM
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Jack was given options. He didn"t want to change. Had a great run at Clemson appreciate all he did. Great man helped mentor many young men. Wasn"t willing to change. The ax fell and we can"t change it. Move forward to dwell on history changes nothing. It will only hurt Clemson with all the negatives. Hope we make a good choice for Clemson baseball! Go tigers!
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All-TigerNet [12030]
TigerPulse: 95%
Posts: 12668
Joined: 7/14/05
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RA'd for calling THE CLEMSON ATHLETIC DIRECTOR a punk.
Jun 5, 2015, 6:50 PM
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WTH is wrong with you people?
Show some class.
DRad deserves some respect.
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Orange Blooded [3510]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4044
Joined: 11/30/98
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Re: RA'd for calling THE CLEMSON ATHLETIC DIRECTOR a punk.
Jun 6, 2015, 9:17 PM
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I'm not going to call him a punk but releasing the content of a performance evaluation is completely inappropriate by any manager especially an AD at a major university. DRad made an incredibly poor decision having that show up in the media and will be judged harshly for doing so. He should have let he original statement stand on its own and move on. JL has certainly handled this situation with more grace and class than has DRad.
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110%er [6095]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 13241
Joined: 11/10/00
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i have no idea "how it went down" and very very
Jun 5, 2015, 8:44 PM
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few people know the whole truth, so it's pointless to speculate or accuse or indicte D Rad.
if you take loyalty, sentiment, respect, emotion etc out of the equation, Jack would have been asked to leave after last year. Let's face it, the losses to coots twice in CWS doomed JL
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