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All-TigerNet [14090]
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Is there a reason for colleges to recognize frats and....
Mar 10, 2015, 6:07 PM
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sororities, anymore? Only time you hear about them is due to binge drinking, hazing accidents, and when they make arses out of themselves on pictures or video. At Clemson there has been two different incidents, recently. Both were negative. Frats and sororities have become organizations for the biggest dbags on campus to hangout. I took my nephew to the youth day this past Saturday, and on the way out we passed one of the frat houses that had about 20 frat boys hanging outside. They were yelling at cars and acting like middle school boys whose parents condone bad behavior. It was very pathetic to see that.
Eventually, colleges will stop recognizing frats and sororities, because they are too much of a PR nightmare whose dbag members don't represent the majority of students at a college.
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All-In [28802]
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You only hear the bad stuff bc they mosty do good things
Mar 10, 2015, 6:11 PM
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Yes, they're mostly about having an exclusive group of people guaranteed to party with you, but because they organize people well, they're good at getting worthwhile things done. So maybe colleges won't want to recognize the greek system because they're afraid of bad PR, but I think that would mostly be a bad thing.
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All-Conference [433]
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There's a million different ways to mobilize groups
Mar 10, 2015, 6:39 PM
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of people now. There's absolutely zero reason why it is necessary to tolerate the kind of behavior that is typical of frats and sororities. The way they conduct themselves is disgusting and embarrassing. I thought that when I went to Clemson and I still think that about every greek house I've ever had the displeasure of having to share my time and space.
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All-Pro [698]
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You just have no clue..
Mar 10, 2015, 7:06 PM
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Do you think no issues ever occur with the general student population (non-greek)?
You are living a dream.
Let's see what happens if the Greeks stop building homecoming displays, Tigerama, stop being campus leaders, raising money for charities, Dabo's All In Foundation, exceeding the campus wide GPA, becoming members of Iptay, donating to the Clemson Fund, etc...
Greeks have always done more, given more and given more back.
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110%er [5436]
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Re: You just have no clue..
Mar 10, 2015, 8:27 PM
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What happened on the bridge this year??? Somebody in the greek community knows and need to come forward so the parents can have some peace
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110%er [8095]
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Does anyone really think hazing was not involved?!?!?
Mar 10, 2015, 9:27 PM
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Surely hazing was involved.
His "brothers" are not true gentlemen and have no character. They might be loyal, but they are breaking the LAW by not telling the police what they know. May they all rot in H3LL!!!!
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All-In [42159]
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It was, and it's a crying shame
Mar 11, 2015, 11:19 AM
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That people haven't been arrested for Tucker Hipps' death.
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CU Medallion [51531]
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He was murdered. Someone needs to go to jail.
Mar 16, 2015, 11:38 AM
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100% serious.
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All-In [30828]
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Legend [19352]
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Re: all that will stop if frats are closed?***
Mar 11, 2015, 11:23 AM
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yep underage drinking will cease to exist on college campuses /s
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CU Medallion [51531]
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CU Medallion [51531]
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How could a campus possibly function without the leadership
Mar 16, 2015, 11:36 AM
[ in reply to You just have no clue.. ] |
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from the Greek elected student government. /s
"Guys, ______ is running so we have to vote for him!"
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Head Coach [787]
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All-Conference [433]
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I was wondering when the boobirds would be out
Mar 10, 2015, 9:00 PM
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I realized when I typed my response that a lot of posters here probably are/ were in fraternities or sororities and the response would be vicious. I don't care.
After attending Clemson University for a looooooooooong, looooooooooooooooooong time and bartending in Clemson, I'd say that I probably have had more direct interaction with greeks than either one of you. They never fail to live up to their sophomoric reputation. Do other students have problems? Sure, and I'm certainly no angel, but no other group on campus has the proven track record of individuals exhibiting despicable behavior at as high a percentage as the greeks. That's documented, boys.
I will NEVER feel sorry for a group of privileged white boys being "misunderstood" because of some of the terrible things I've witnessed fraternities do with my own eyes. If you care to change that, don't serve the community because you're forced to or because it's one of the fun events. Understand why you're serving, learn something from it, and apply it to the other 364 days of the year. Change the mindset of your respective organizations from an echo chamber to something that truly does do more good than harm. Until then...
As far as "not getting in the one I wanted;" Don't make me laugh. I would rather slide down a rusty razor blade into a pool of lemon juice than know that my daddy had to buy my friends for me. I'm not the one living in a dream. You do realize that the rest of the world views fraternities as a bad joke whose punchline got really old sometime immediately following Animal House? Sorry to offend, but until the systematic pattern of alcoholism, racism, homophobia, and abuse towards women is addressed and eradicated, the greek community will never be more than, at best, an outdated program to promote an internal network through nepotism, and, at worst, a group of drunken Neanderthals.
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Fan [52]
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Re: I was wondering when the boobirds would be out
Mar 10, 2015, 9:38 PM
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First of all, I'm sorry for your experience with fraternities. You are entitled to your opinion.
But, your judging of fraternities is hypocrisy at it's finest. You are doing the same stereotyping that you are accusing fraternities of doing. It is liberal thinking at it's finest: "stereotyping is fine as long as it doesn't effect a group that I care about."
Judge a man by his actions. Don't judge a whole group based on some bad experiences.
I'll judge fraternities off of the leaders that I've seen come from them.
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All-Conference [433]
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Re: I was wondering when the boobirds would be out
Mar 10, 2015, 9:49 PM
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I, too, judge fraternities off of the leaders I've seen come from them. We just clearly have had very different experiences when the character of said leaders has been tested. I honestly hope that luck stays with you.
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CU Medallion [51531]
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CU Guru [1330]
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Re: I was wondering when the boobirds would be out
Mar 10, 2015, 10:47 PM
[ in reply to I was wondering when the boobirds would be out ] |
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I'd be happy for you to show me how my "daddy bought my friends for me" even though I pay for my dues, room, and board by working 2 jobs along with a difficult class schedule. I would also be willing to discuss with you my apparent homophobia, racist views, and domestic abuse in which you suggest I gleefully partake in a haze of alcohol and narcotics. There's two sides to every story.
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All-In [28802]
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You sound like a raving lunatic
Mar 10, 2015, 11:48 PM
[ in reply to I was wondering when the boobirds would be out ] |
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I mean, can you think of any more currently trendy prejudice-insults to accuse the Greeks of? I've never heard "homophobia" brought up in reference to fraternities, but maybe that's because nobody had heard of homophobia ten years ago. Give it time.
These guys and gals aren't nearly as bad you're making them out to be, and they're not as good as the reflexively defensive current and former frat members make them out to be either. But they do perform a social utility on campus, and I'm not convinced when people say we can easily get rid of traditional institutions and replace them with artificial ones that will do all the same things with none of the current difficulties. Yes, fraternities can encourage the same kind of stupid stuff that happens any time you get too many guys or girls in a group and you insulate them, but they also foster a stronger kind of community (yes, even through some forms of hazing) than you get from less intentional groups. And their pathologies are just amplified versions of the pathologies of all college students these days.
So I'd like to see them reformed some, but I'd also like to see the whole college social mindset improve. Until then, it's totally unfair to blame all the stuff you do on fraternities.
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110%er [5436]
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Re: You sound like a raving lunatic
Mar 11, 2015, 9:51 AM
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Why is unfair? He said he was a bartender and had first had experience with many frats.
If you don't like what he said you need to change your image. All I ever seen the frats do is throw parties and charge 5 bucks to drink and drown.
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Legend [19352]
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Re: You sound like a raving lunatic
Mar 11, 2015, 11:02 AM
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"All I ever seen the frats do is throw parties and charge 5 bucks to drink and drown."
That makes you ignorant.
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110%er [5436]
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Re: You sound like a raving lunatic
Mar 16, 2015, 10:33 AM
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How? because the great one disagrees??
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All-Conference [433]
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Re: You sound like a raving lunatic
Mar 11, 2015, 11:00 AM
[ in reply to You sound like a raving lunatic ] |
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I base my judgements upon my experiences. Nothing else. I can go through all those experiences with you individually if you like. Suffice it to say, none of them were pleasant. So if I sound like I have a lot of contempt for greek organizations, it's because I do.
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Team Captain [484]
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Orange Blooded [2574]
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Re: I was wondering when the boobirds would be out
Mar 16, 2015, 12:34 PM
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non-grad...
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All-In [42159]
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Why is this always the stupid response out of frat boys?
Mar 11, 2015, 11:12 AM
[ in reply to Please tell me just when... ] |
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"Sounds like someone didn't get into the frat they wanted."
"Sounds like someone got balled!" (Whatever the hell that means.. is this a hazing ritual similar to tea bagging? I dunno, maybe ask a PiKA).
Here's an new flash that may wrinkle your seersucker: The majority of people in college don't want to join Greek Life. So when some criticism is launched your way about behavior (and usually rightfully so), it isn't because someone didn't get accepted into your support group. It's usually because we took a look at that lifestyle and said, "No thanks. That's not for me."
That's fine if you wanted to do that in college. I'm not proposing that we abolish Greek Life or any of that. If that was your prerogative and how you wanted to make friends, more power to you. But don't sit back and act like there aren't major problems that fraternity life generates (which in Clemson's case, resulted in death this year). Don't act like you are immune to scrutiny over it. And don't act like anyone's jealous they weren't a part of the boys club. Trust me. We aren't.
Because you could have just as much fun at Clemson without paying yearly dues and acting like a complete buffoon in the process.
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Team Captain [484]
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Re: Why is this always the stupid response out of frat boys?
Mar 11, 2015, 11:24 AM
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Can't wear searsucker until after Easter.
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Scout Team [169]
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Re: Why is this always the stupid response out of frat boys?
Mar 19, 2015, 12:16 AM
[ in reply to Why is this always the stupid response out of frat boys? ] |
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Just as many or more college lives are lost outside the Greek system and that is a fact. Also, a significant amount of Clemson students choose to affiliate with Greek organizations, significantly higher than most other ACC universities. Whether your pro or con doesn't matter. It's not the system that makes good or bad choices for these individuals; it is just covered more aggressively when letters are attached because of the stigma that has been placed because of "Animal House" and continual scrutiny stemming from the stigma. I'm not changing anyone's mind; but, Greek life offered me an opportunity to get more involved on campus in multiple organizations and ultimately was a cornerstone to my experience at Clemson. I'm thankful for that and managed to make good decisions throughout my tenure.
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CU Medallion [51531]
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That "haha! you didn't get in!" comeback is old and completely meaningless
Mar 16, 2015, 11:38 AM
[ in reply to Please tell me just when... ] |
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What about the individuals who were in a fraternity and are also against them?
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110%er [8095]
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Frats=underage drinking=illegal=not creating gentlemen
Mar 10, 2015, 9:20 PM
[ in reply to You only hear the bad stuff bc they mosty do good things ] |
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Not developing men of honor and integrity. How can they when we all know they condone breaking the law. Change the law, but don't condone breaking the law.
Bring it on. I know this is not a popular stance. But it is the truth and sometimes the truth hurts.
Why can't there be one fraternity that will do what they say: truly abstain from hazing and underage drinking? I would really respect such a fraternity.
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Legend [19352]
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Re: Frats=underage drinking=illegal=not creating gentlemen
Mar 10, 2015, 9:22 PM
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Oh noes not underage drinking such a horrible thing.
You are aware most Clemson students drink underage. I was not Greek but your underage drinking gripe is a joke. The age should not be 21 anyway.
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110%er [8095]
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Fight to change the law. But you can't be above the law.***
Mar 10, 2015, 9:28 PM
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110%er [8095]
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110%er [6031]
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the drinking age is 18 in europe
Mar 10, 2015, 9:33 PM
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works pretty good for them. although they don't rely on private transportation as much as we do. which leads to less DUI's and accidents.
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110%er [8095]
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Is that our goal? To be like Europe? I hope not.***
Mar 10, 2015, 9:36 PM
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Fan [52]
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Re: Is that our goal? To be like Europe? I hope not.***
Mar 10, 2015, 9:42 PM
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Looking at our foreign policy and healthcare... Kinda looks like it. I hope not though.
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Legend [19352]
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110%er [5298]
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Re: Is that our goal? To be like Europe? I hope not.***
Mar 16, 2015, 12:24 PM
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If generally not wanting to be like Europe makes one close minded, count me in as close minded as well.
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110%er [5436]
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Re: the drinking age is 18 in europe
Mar 11, 2015, 9:52 AM
[ in reply to the drinking age is 18 in europe ] |
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OH good god obummer is that the best example you got????????
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Legend [19352]
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Legend [19352]
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Re: Is there a reason for colleges to recognize frats and....
Mar 10, 2015, 7:26 PM
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Has nothing to do with the fact that the media only covers negative ####. Them volunteering doesnt sell papers.
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110%er [5436]
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Re: Is there a reason for colleges to recognize frats and....
Mar 10, 2015, 8:29 PM
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I love kacky LOL
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Legend [19352]
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Re: Is there a reason for colleges to recognize frats and....
Mar 10, 2015, 9:18 PM
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Umm k
Also if this was supposed to be a childish attack of me I wasnt in a Frat at Clemson. I just know they are more than just parties. They do a lot of other good stuff as well.
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110%er [5436]
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Re: Is there a reason for colleges to recognize frats and....
Mar 16, 2015, 3:00 PM
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Dang you are one paranoid dude
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Legend [17287]
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Actually a complex issue - with examples of behavior that
Mar 10, 2015, 7:53 PM
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cover the complete spectrum from good to bad.
The real world is more inclusive and politically correct than it was 25 years ago - certainly than 40 or 50 years ago. The Greek organizations need to evolve to stay current especially in regard to zero tolerance for unacceptable social behavior from hazing, disrespect or abuse of women, racism or bigotry and excessive substance abuse. Likewise they need to increase and accentuate the charitable, school spirit and educational aspects of their chapters.
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110%er [8095]
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AGREE!***
Mar 10, 2015, 9:21 PM
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CU Guru [1330]
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Re: Is there a reason for colleges to recognize frats and....
Mar 10, 2015, 7:59 PM
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Want to get rid of hazing in colleges? Get rid of the marching band. Get rid of the athletic teams. Heck, get rid of the "Divine Nine" historically black Greek fraternities/sororities, which haze far worse than IFC and CPC fraternities (how do you feel about branding with hot irons?). Even get rid of a few clubs that also do as such. The fact of the matter is, hazing isn't exclusive to Greek Life as you think of it. Just look at the Clemson women's soccer team or at any NFL/MLB team. In addition, what does occur with some chapters isn't nearly as bad as you may be led to believe by the rare truly idiotic stuff that happens a few times a year in individual chapters across the country which actually makes the news.
I'm not condoning hazing, but I also believe that the definition has expanded to such a degree that things like physical conditioning (being that many fraternities hold physical fitness as a core value) are now considered hazing for fraternities when they aren't for other groups.
If you are wondering what Greek Life brings to campus beyond a couple of negative incidents on an infrequent basis, I would encourage you to do some research on the levels of alumni and philanthropic giving done by Greeks and Greek alumni as well as levels of participation in significant campus organizations such as student government in Greeks vs. non-Greeks.
And yes, there are some people that act like idiots sometimes, such as the brothers of Kappa Sigma you mentioned.
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110%er [5436]
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Re: Is there a reason for colleges to recognize frats and....
Mar 10, 2015, 8:30 PM
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Like dropping a kid off a bridge
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110%er [6031]
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I don't think anyone has answered his question....
Mar 10, 2015, 9:32 PM
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and don't give me the philanthropy BS. I knew guys in frats and they did philanthropic work MAYBE 5 times a year. what do you think they do the other 360 days? and I don't care about the underage drinkin either, I agree with the other poster who said you shouldn't have to be 21 years old to drink. more like 19 or 20. and im sure other student groups can make floats. just about every school in america has non greek clubs that do exactly those things. and im sure there are other groups at Clemson who contribute to events on campus
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Team Captain [484]
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Re: Is there a reason for colleges to recognize frats and....
Mar 11, 2015, 12:11 AM
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Fraternities never ask for recognition when they're the ceo of your majority Fortune 500 companies, doctors And lawyers... Are there a bunch of idiots? Absolutely! But why say they're terrible people when you have
Morans like your president running wild
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All-In [25393]
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Unfortunately, society has a tendency to judge adversely
Mar 11, 2015, 5:47 AM
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organizations based upon the misbehavior of a few.
Greek life has been an integral part of our collegiate scene, and I don't see that changing.
They were local in nature for many years, including during my years at Clemson. Although a GDI, that was due to the various activities in which I was involved, leading to my belief that I wouldn't have time to contribute to the fraternal organizations. Yet, I had very close friends who were members and who were student leaders.
To single out Greek organizations as miscreant means presumption that all other campus groups were/are models of propriety, and that would be a stretch. Thus, my suggestion would be for student leaders to reevaluate continuously their groups' contributions, making certain they present both a positive image and a distinguished level of service to our students and to the University.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Is there a reason for colleges to recognize frats and....
Mar 11, 2015, 7:15 AM
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normally I would not comment on this type of thread, but I was a non-Greek that lived in a Greek frat house for 1 year, so I have an opinion.
I won't name the house, but because of lack of housing for several of us, they moved us into a frat house for my soph year. Overall they were fine IMO. I didn't see a lot of positives that they did as a frat, but they seemed to enjoy partying way more than I ever did. They goofed off as much or more than I did, but they had good and bad guys in the frat, just like non-Greeks. I was less fortunate than most of those guys, as some were from the very wealthy, so I would never have fit in with that group. But that doesn't make them bad or good. So my overall opinion is that they are fine for the most part, but I just don't see things the same way they do.
btw: that was a long time ago (70's) too, so things might be different now.
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Orange Blooded [4757]
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I don't think the problem is recognizing frats
Mar 11, 2015, 7:24 AM
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I think the problem is that anytime Clemson attempts to institute control or supervision of the frats, they go crying to their alumni with deep pockets and those alumni make threats against the university. It is a game of chicken, and the side controlling the dollars is winning.
I'm ambivalent to the idea of Greeks on campus. They have a bad reputation, which is often deserved, but they do make positive contributions to the university during and after college. Fraternities need to clean *themselves* up--nix the hazing, nix the binge parties, nix the entitlement, speak up loudly against sexual assaults on campus--and be very public about it. That will raise their image and status on campus.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Is there a reason for colleges to recognize frats and....
Mar 11, 2015, 10:08 AM
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I think the biggest problems with frats are that the biggest screw ups in those frats are usually freshman or sophomore. They should make is so students can't join a fraternity until their jr year. It will improve graduation rates. This only conjecture, but I believe you will see less incidents like you saw from that freshman SAE at OU. These kids get away from home and the wheels some off. They need some time to mature.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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the last numbers i saw show grad rates 20% higher for greeks***
Mar 11, 2015, 10:11 AM
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All-In [48078]
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I stand corrected. That's interesting. Thanks!*
Mar 11, 2015, 10:23 AM
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nm
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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not at all, good conversation & some foundation; cheers.***
Mar 11, 2015, 10:25 AM
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CU Medallion [51531]
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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i'd say your comment(s) explains why non greeks are lower.***
Mar 16, 2015, 12:17 PM
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CU Medallion [51531]
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And the fact that they're business majors.***
Mar 18, 2015, 9:48 PM
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110%er [7390]
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Wrong, bro. It's not the kids' faults. ITS THE PARENTS'.
Mar 11, 2015, 10:11 AM
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These frats are proving just how ignored they are & just how much their parents blow @ instilling moral values into their children.
Point blank. End of discussion.
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CU Guru [1598]
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Dude, there are so many organizations like fraternities
Mar 16, 2015, 10:58 AM
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... doing charitable work that news rarely reports on the good deeds of these organizations. That's why it's so newsworthy when those same groups slip up and doing stupid things. Fraternities and sororities do a lot of good work for their communities. KS
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CU Medallion [51531]
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You mean the required service hours that you have to complete
Mar 16, 2015, 11:42 AM
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or you face penalties? Oh, ok.
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110%er [6885]
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Leave them alone and they will sign their own death warrant.
Mar 16, 2015, 1:34 PM
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They are on the way out and will soon become a thing of the past.
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110%er [5436]
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Re: Leave them alone and they will sign their own death warrant.
Mar 16, 2015, 3:04 PM
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I don't think the kid signed his death warrant but he received it and no one is being punished for it
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All-In [47750]
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