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110%er [6610]
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Is The Chad's Offense Killing Our Defense???
Sep 27, 2012, 12:33 PM
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First, let me start off by saying I love our offense and don't want it to go away. It is exciting and we are never really out of a game given a few good breaks...
Look at the scoring defensive numbers:
2007: National Rank: 10 (18.7 PPG)
2008: National Rank: 13 (17.3 PPG)
2009: National Rank: 24 (20.4 PPG)
2010: National Rank: 13 (18.8 PPG)
The Chad's Term:
2011: National Rank: 81 (29.3 PPG)
2012: National Rank: 75 (25.5 PPG)<--Through FSU Game
I don't know if it is coincidence or if the Tempo is killing our defense by being on the field more....
Should Chad slow the Tempo down?
Is this just a nature of Spread teams?
I guess I want a high powered and dynamic offense and a devastating defense at the same time....Is it possible? I cannot think of a lot of spread times that also have a reputation for being defensive horses. Auburn and Florida had unique QB's that what they did cannot be replicated nearly as easy.
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All-In [29036]
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This has been thoroughly discussed
Sep 27, 2012, 12:44 PM
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And the answer is simple.
A fast paced offense which is built to maximize plays & possessions will, by simple fact, cause the defense to face (barring turnovers on KO's) a greater number of possessions.
That is simply a fact.
However the standard for judging both squads should be on the percentage of possessions the offense scores on versus the percentage of possessions the defense allows scores. Stay on the positive side of that equation and you win dang near all of your games.
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110%er [6610]
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As Long As Or Defense Plays Like This It will be discussed
Sep 27, 2012, 1:04 PM
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IMO, it may be a nature of the spread offense. I do think your PPG will go up a little bit, but I have a hard time with a 10-13 PPG jump in scoring Defense.
I think we need a lot of depth on the D-line if we are going to keep up this high paced attack or slow the pace down from time to time...
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Scout Team [183]
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Re: This has been thoroughly discussed
Sep 27, 2012, 1:06 PM
[ in reply to This has been thoroughly discussed ] |
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Agreed. The defencse will have to face a greater number of possessions thereby likely yielding more points. At the same time, the offense is scoring more points. He should compare the points scored per game over the last several years.
It is a tradeoff.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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if the tigers hit chad's mark of 80+ plays/game how many
Sep 27, 2012, 1:18 PM
[ in reply to This has been thoroughly discussed ] |
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extra games in a 13-14 game schedule will the tigers have played?
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Legend [18133]
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If you assume an average team will run 65+ plays,
Sep 27, 2012, 5:05 PM
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you have to conclude about 2.5 or 3 extra games worth.
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All-TigerNet [14451]
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Re: This has been thoroughly discussed
Sep 27, 2012, 1:30 PM
[ in reply to This has been thoroughly discussed ] |
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when will you people realize that yes this is a very fast paced offense but more importantly a ball control offense. we rarely score in 3 or 4 plays. the thing that hurts the d more than anything is 3 and outs. and it matters not what kind of offense you run when you are going 3 and out which we did a few times in the second half. it is really not brain science or rocket surgery.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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if you take the full clock to snap the ball including on 4th
Sep 27, 2012, 1:33 PM
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that's a min of game time at least difference in a traditional offense and chads.
shortening the game does a number of things, ask the giants.
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Athletic Dir [872]
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Exactly. Those Years that our Defense had great numbers
Sep 27, 2012, 5:09 PM
[ in reply to Re: This has been thoroughly discussed ] |
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was during the seasons that our offense was struggling and did not produce enough to have any comfort in any game. The reason we won the games in the first place was due to our defense.
I think it is by total coincidence that Spread teams have poor defenses. I think there is no excuse why a Spread team could not have a defense that gets a defensive stop 80% of the other team's possessions. I think that is the main reason that Clemson went after BV was because of Oklahoma being notorius for quick scoring. You have to build around what you already do well.
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110%er [5960]
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Re: Is The Chad's Offense Killing Our Defense???
Sep 27, 2012, 12:44 PM
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Love the name my friend...As for your point, there is no way it "helps" the defense given that they are back on the field quickly on many occassions...BUT...if a team doesnt have a good offense and go 3 and out often, then the D is back on the field even quicker!! I dont have a statistic, but I will assure you that anytime our Offense has a quick 3 and out, the opposing Offense probably scores nearly every time this year... Our D should be conditioned to stay on field more and our depth is so shallow they do get worn out, which is exactly what happened Saturday night....They literally wore us down and we couldnt stay with them, otherwise we win that game my friend 
I love our offense though...my belief is we need our D to me more aggressive and not be so much of having "Deer in the headlights" look so often.
Go Tigers!!
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All-In [29036]
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I believe our D was VERY aggressive Saturday night
Sep 27, 2012, 12:48 PM
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I seem to remember a bunch of blitzes and stunts. They just simply didn't work because our DB's couldn't cover receivers and our LB's couldn't fill the vacated gaps. And the FSU QB simply made great decisions and good passes.
That's not to say our D played well. That's just to say I don't think aggression was what was lacking.
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All-Conference [413]
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Not nearly as much as our lack of playmakers***
Sep 27, 2012, 12:47 PM
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110%er [9045]
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I have to believe that between DS, CM, and BV they.....
Sep 27, 2012, 12:53 PM
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know what's best overall for our team - can't believe they'd be running a spread offense if they felt it would have such a negative impact on our defense that it would cause us to lose games.
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Legend [15863]
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I STILL see some of our D player just hit a guy with shoulde
Sep 27, 2012, 12:55 PM
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--- not even a ####### attempt to wrap up or go for the legs, just hit with shoulder
####### pisses me off
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All-Conference [413]
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Re: Is The Chad's Offense Killing Our Defense???
Sep 27, 2012, 12:57 PM
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2007-2010
Phillip Merling, Jarvis Jenkins, Crezdon Butler, Marcus Gilchrist, Deandre McDaniel, Rennie Moore, Ricky Sapp, Daquan Bowers, Michael Hamlin, Byron Maxwell, Kourtnei Brown
We had playmakers in those years.
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Starter [361]
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we dont have a defense as of yet. they got manhandled on
Sep 27, 2012, 1:00 PM
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FSUs first drive. Didn't have time to use fatigue as an excuse.
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110%er [5960]
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Re: we dont have a defense as of yet. they got manhandled on
Sep 27, 2012, 1:06 PM
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Very true, they marched right down on us like it was nothing...
We did same thing to their Vaunted D by scoring a TD on our first drive 1:30 into the game...
We allowed 14 points in first half, 14!! 35 in the second...our D was fatigued no question! We do have a serious lack of playmakers on D, and the D line lack of penetration and interruption KILLS us
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Team Captain [489]
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if you loo at it like that, does Bama's defense cause their
Sep 27, 2012, 1:02 PM
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offense to tire out?
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Addict [436]
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Re: Is The Chad's Offense Killing Our Defense???
Sep 27, 2012, 1:05 PM
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Yeah.....Oregon's offense is killing them too.
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Team Captain [489]
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yah I could tell from their game last week***
Sep 27, 2012, 1:33 PM
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Orange Blooded [2466]
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Defense has been a problem since at least '09
Sep 27, 2012, 1:12 PM
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Georgia Tech did not punt once in the ACCCG. That was the worst defensive performance ( at the time) I remember seeing from a Clemson team.
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Follower [257]
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Re: Defense has been a problem since at least '09
Sep 27, 2012, 1:56 PM
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I believe we can have a very strong and powerful defense if the players we have are developed and taught better techniques of tackling and hitting and toughness. I really thought our defense this year would be much better but they obviously are not. If the current committments we have come to Clemson, we will get better I believe and we should be able to run the kind of offense we have. There should be a huge difference this Saturday at BC. Their should be a huge resolve to bounce back on both sides of the ball! I sure do hope so. We have so much to play for and can have a better season than we had last year even if we don't win the ACC championship.
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Orange Blooded [2828]
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Re: Defense has been a problem since at least '09
Sep 28, 2012, 1:16 AM
[ in reply to Defense has been a problem since at least '09 ] |
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We finished the season as the 24th best defense in CFB in 2009 and 13th in 2010.That's pretty acceptable for me. IMHO.
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110%er [9638]
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I don't think so. We give up yards in bunches in the first
Sep 27, 2012, 1:32 PM
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half of games as well (when our D shouldn't be too tired yet). Ball St, Auburn, FU - almost 200 each. FSU - 300+.
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110%er [5960]
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I will say this joeyb
Sep 27, 2012, 3:38 PM
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Our D has looked very poor this year, I will not argue against that... Trying to argue that they werent worn down in the 2nd half is like trying to argue that water isnt wet!! It was painfully obvious, tackling got worse and worse, players running through tackles far too easily...arm weary, leg weary, with no depth to help support our starters they cant withstand being on field so much.. If we have the talent BV says we have, then we should get better and its unfortunate they couldnt make some stops when FSU went on that huge run...
I will totally agree that they dont look very good at the beginning of games either but thats nothing to do with fatigue.
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110%er [7134]
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i would think it would only kill the defense if we're
Sep 27, 2012, 1:44 PM
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going 3 and out all the time. But we don't.
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110%er [5960]
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You got that right!
Sep 27, 2012, 3:44 PM
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Thats my basic point El Tigre 1 !!!
Our defense is no more tired than any other team in NCAA that has an offense that goes 3 and out regularly... Up tempo offense gives us a huge advantage on any defense and it shouldnt be such a negative to our defense, we just DO NOT make enough plays... We actually have a decent 3rd down conversion defense, only problem with that is our D has to force the other team to get to 3rd down in order for us to play 3rd down defense.... and thats not a good statement!!
We will get better with time, I have no doubt!
Go Tigers!!
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Associate AD [810]
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Re: i would think it would only kill the defense if we're
Sep 27, 2012, 10:49 PM
[ in reply to i would think it would only kill the defense if we're ] |
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It was not just "a few" three and outs in the 2nd half at FSU, it was 5 straight and one of those was a two and out when TB threw the int. I think there is an argument that those possessions had a lot to do with FSU putting up 35 in that half.
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All-TigerNet [10343]
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Re: Is The Chad's Offense Killing Our Defense???
Sep 27, 2012, 1:45 PM
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HELL NO! Quit using our fast pace offense as an excuse. Our d is not tough and is not disciplined. They have attitude problems. They don't want to go out and knock somebody's head off!
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All-Conference [413]
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The offense should be the ones tired from going so fast***
Sep 27, 2012, 3:50 PM
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110%er [6132]
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Result of Steele's teaching of fundementals...takes a while
Sep 27, 2012, 4:44 PM
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to fix.
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Walk-On [129]
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Re: Is The Chad's Offense Killing Our Defense???
Sep 27, 2012, 4:53 PM
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If you go back and trace the start of the poor defense, it starts shortly after Steele was hired. I think our recruiting went down, and the coaching wasnt great. After a couple of years, Vics players were gone and we were left with Steeles payers and poor coaching. You see where that led us. I think it will take Venebles another year or two to get us where we want to be.
Venebles can coach and can recruit with the best of them. It will take time to build the quality depth that would compare to our offensive depth.
Thats my opinion.
ZA
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CU Guru [1475]
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this is what i noticed sat night...
Sep 27, 2012, 6:54 PM
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When our offense kept the ball a while our defense had enough gas to make a few plays.
When our offense stalled and had a few 3 and outs. Our defense went to potts. They couldnt tackle and FSU went down the field.
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Starter [374]
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Re: Is The Chad's Offense Killing Our Defense???
Sep 27, 2012, 7:37 PM
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The big problems is we missed the big defensive recruits that clemson usually relies on the past couple of years.
We have a defense full of fillers. Except for Stephone Anthony.
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Orange Blooded [2519]
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ShakintheSouthland has examined this***
Sep 27, 2012, 9:00 PM
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Legend [17507]
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Our Defense is Killing our Defense! Chad will soon be HC.
Sep 27, 2012, 10:28 PM
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Likely back in midwest.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Go away, coot!***
Sep 27, 2012, 10:52 PM
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Walk-On [126]
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Fast possessions creating more possessions
Sep 28, 2012, 12:55 AM
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has the effect of scoring more points, for both offense and allowing more points on defense.
However, and I think this is the key point, since more plays and possessions are executed, the faster pace has the additional effect of allowing the more talented team more plays against a less talented team, creating the increased possibility of a larger win, or loss, one direction or another. I have not done a statistical analysis, but I would bet the average margin of victory, whether in a win or a loss, is much greater in 2011 and 2012 than the recent preceding years (2010, 2009, 2008, etc).
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Athletic Dir [861]
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That's an interesting theory.
Sep 28, 2012, 7:51 AM
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I think you may have hit upon something. 90 plays is almost like combining the scores of a game and a half. At least it helps to eliminate the tendency of losing to a team we shouldn't. If we are the better team then we have more opportunity to show it... like with a three game series in baseball. The problem is when we are not the better team we look terrible.
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All-TigerNet [10343]
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Re: Fast possessions creating more possessions
Sep 28, 2012, 11:00 AM
[ in reply to Fast possessions creating more possessions ] |
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You guys don't get it do you? What does the defense being on the field more have to do with giving up scores on 3 of 4 possessions to start the game? I can see wearing down over time but there is no way the defense is gassed after 4 possessions by the other team. Here is a thought,get more three and outs and you won't be on the field so dang long!
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Walk-On [126]
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Re: Is The Chad's Offense Killing Our Defense???
Sep 28, 2012, 1:06 AM
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Well the Coots aren't having a problem scoring points and limiting opponents to practically nothing, until the subs come in so I don't know what your point is!
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Commissioner [905]
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I think we should practice ball control when we have the
Sep 28, 2012, 7:12 AM
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lead by 2 touch downs in the second half. Would be good to have a power runner
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CU Guru [1297]
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Of course not, our crappy D is killing our D******
Sep 28, 2012, 7:25 AM
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Team Captain [466]
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No beast or leader on D is killing it
Sep 28, 2012, 11:07 AM
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It should have been a member of the defense to call a team meeting. Sometimes its like those guys are just going through the motions
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All-TigerNet [10343]
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Re: No beast or leader on D is killing it
Sep 28, 2012, 11:12 AM
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Spot on post. I have been saying that this D doesn't want to hit anybody or stop anybody. It's an attitude thing. The lack of leadership from some of the players is disturbing as well. However,LET's GO BEAT BC!
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Starter [390]
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Re: Is The Chad's Offense Killing Our Defense???
Sep 28, 2012, 1:48 PM
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It has it has drawbacks, but it also means increased playing time for defensive recruits who want to see the field 35 to 40 minutes a game.
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110%er [6095]
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3 and out's kill a defense, no matter what type of O you run
Sep 28, 2012, 1:59 PM
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We simply can not go 3 and out.
Additionally, we need to be able get physical and run the ball. You need to be able to line up and run on 3rd and 1 and get a 1st down. We haven't been able to do that in a long time.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Is The Chad's Offense Killing Our Defense???
Sep 28, 2012, 2:14 PM
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what defense?
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110%er [6610]
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I think defense was worn out in the 2nd half of the FSU game
Sep 28, 2012, 2:22 PM
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Even Chad Morris admitted when asked why he didn't slow down the pace in the second he responded to that being a fair question.
I think our defense played very good in the first half....but we also ran around 40 offensive plays which put our defense on the field more.......FSU is the biggest, fastest and strongest offense we will face and if anyone could not see in the second have that our defense was gassed with the arm tackles and just getting run over watched a different game....They were spent.
It won't be like that in every game because FSU is way above anyone else. I am just suggesting that there are times when slowing the offensive game down does have it's merits.....
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