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Replies: 52
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Tiger Spirit [9262]
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Clemson Does Not Need An Epic QB To Win A Title
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Jul 26, 2024, 7:29 PM
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Deshaun Watson is not a generational QB. He was great QB, but Trevor Lawrence was considerably better. However, there have been many teams that have won the Title without an All-Star Stud QB. I mean, it certainly doesn't hurt to have an All-Star QB. Here's the ingredients to winning a Championship...
1. Teamwork and Cohesion
2. A strong defense
3. A super strong offensive line
4. An above average QB
5. A deep WR corps
6. A running back that can follow blocks and read gaps
7. A TE that can block and catch quick passes underneath
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Associate AD [1005]
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Re: Clemson Does Not Need An Epic QB To Win A Title
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Jul 26, 2024, 7:45 PM
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Trevor was not a “considerable better” qb than Deshaun. Trevor may have had a couple of better attributes, but Deshaun was a better overall qb. I’d choose Deshaun 10/10 times.
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Clemson Sports Icon [58628]
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Re: Clemson Does Not Need An Epic QB To Win A Title
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Jul 26, 2024, 8:35 PM
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I loved them both, really, I do but IMPO, TL16 was the better all around QB to me!!! I believe that Trevor had the stronger more accurate arm, and I believe that Trevor was faster on his feet than DW4 was, plus Trevor has a long and strong stiff arm that takes tacklers off their feet!!!
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Valley Protector [1410]
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Re: Clemson Does Not Need An Epic QB To Win A Title
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Jul 26, 2024, 10:10 PM
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Trevor was better qb but Watson was the better baller.. he could make something out of nothing sometimes and escape a collapsed pocket like a magician.. I enjoyed Watson style more but I’d be happy with either one to come back for another year of eligibility.. they had a lot better receivers than Cade did though. A healthy receiver room and the freshman coming in I think he makes huge strides
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Letterman [167]
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Re: Clemson Does Not Need An Epic QB To Win A Title
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Jul 27, 2024, 12:16 AM
[ in reply to Re: Clemson Does Not Need An Epic QB To Win A Title ] |
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Agreed, he should have won two nattys.
And to the op without those QBs Clemson still only has one national title.
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Game Changer [2047]
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Re: Clemson Does Not Need An Epic QB To Win A Title
Jul 28, 2024, 5:13 PM
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He should have. That loss was on Venables and leaving their 5 star TE wide open.
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Commissioner [1254]
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Commissioner [1254]
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Paw Warrior [4835]
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Re: Clemson Does Not Need An Epic QB To Win A Title
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Jul 26, 2024, 7:49 PM
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I’d take Deshaun all day every day and twice on Sunday.
Deshaun was the better college QB IMHO!
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Athletic Dir [1139]
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Re: Clemson Does Not Need An Epic QB To Win A Title
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Jul 27, 2024, 5:56 AM
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Watson made too many horrible mistakes trying to do too much personally and he was not half the ball carrier that TL was!
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Legend [6818]
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Re: Clemson Does Not Need An Epic QB To Win A Title
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Jul 30, 2024, 7:04 AM
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That’s utter BS. TL had 943 rushing yards. DW had almost 2k. I dunno what you were watching
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MVP [533]
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Re: Clemson Does Not Need An Epic QB To Win A Title
Jul 30, 2024, 11:42 AM
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This... DW was the much better runner. Much. Even after the acl.
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Commissioner [1254]
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Commissioner [1254]
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All-TigerNet [5936]
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Re: Clemson Does Not Need An Epic QB To Win A Title
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Jul 26, 2024, 8:10 PM
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Yeah, you ain’t getting much of that with Cade. He would rather be chilling at mommy and daddy’s mansion.
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Tiger Titan [46071]
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Bad take dude.***
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Jul 26, 2024, 10:07 PM
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Commissioner [1254]
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Clemson Sports Icon [58628]
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Re: Clemson Does Not Need An Epic QB To Win A Title
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Jul 26, 2024, 8:15 PM
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Well, I believe that Cade will show all the kind of QB he is with O line help and a couple of above average receivers. I wouldn't waste much time worrying about what folks think about Cade bc he will be just fine!!!
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Tiger Spirit [9463]
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Re: Clemson Does Not Need An Epic QB To Win A Title
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Jul 26, 2024, 8:34 PM
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Very good list but add:
8. Lucky on the number of injuries sustained.
9. Good kicking game.
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TigerNet Champion [116912]
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Re: Clemson Does Not Need An Epic QB To Win A Title
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Jul 26, 2024, 8:38 PM
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Kelly Bryant Got us to the first round of the playoffs in 2018, with relative ease, only to be stifled by a good Alabama Defense. The following year, Lawrence took virtually the same team to the title and blew out Alabama in the championship game.
it certainly does not hurt.
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Valley Protector [1410]
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Re: Clemson Does Not Need An Epic QB To Win A Title
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Jul 26, 2024, 10:12 PM
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Kelly didn’t have Mike Williams or Jordan Legget.. his deep ball wasn’t good enough to not have guys who could go up and get it
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Playmaker [373]
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Re: Clemson Does Not Need An Epic QB To Win A Title***
Jul 27, 2024, 5:02 PM
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TigerNet Champion [116912]
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Rival Killer [2772]
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Clemson Sports Icon [57702]
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Yes***
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Jul 26, 2024, 10:04 PM
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Game Day Hero [4335]
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Re: Clemson Does Not Need An Epic QB To Win A Title
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Jul 26, 2024, 10:40 PM
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A few things
1. Yes DW4 was a generational QB. I’d argue I’d take him over TL16.
2. Teams that win NC without elite QB play are teams that bring in elite talent at almost every other position. Even then they still have a “very good” college QB. GA win because Stetson Bennett was a very good college QB that was surrounded by elite talent.
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All-American [565]
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Re: Clemson Does Not Need An Epic QB To Win A Title
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Jul 26, 2024, 11:12 PM
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The OP has shown over and over he knows absolutely nothing about football.
Deshaun Watson was absolutely a generational QB. I love TLaw and it’s no slight against him as he was generational in his own right but he was not on DW4s level.
DW4 could make it happen. He could literally will his team to victory. Lawrence had more talent around him than Watson did and that’s saying something bc Watson had some dudes.
When DW4 was under center… no matter the score or situation I never felt like we were going to lose. With Lawrence there was always that little bit of doubt.
If we have DW4 instead of Lawrence against LSU and Burrow… I promise you we win that game.
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Game Day Hero [4335]
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Re: Clemson Does Not Need An Epic QB To Win A Title
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Jul 27, 2024, 11:02 AM
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I agree. Lawrence didn’t have that it factor in that game. In the flip side he did what it took to beat OSU the game before. But still I’m taking DW4 between the two
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Commissioner [1254]
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National Champion [7987]
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All-American [577]
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Re: Clemson Does Not Need An Epic QB To Win A Title
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Jul 26, 2024, 11:16 PM
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Your take on Watson is one of the most laughable takes I’ve ever read on this site. I guess the circus is in town
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Campus Hero [13530]
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I'm always stunned how many Clemson fans not
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Jul 26, 2024, 11:27 PM
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just think Watson was better than Lawrence, but that Watson was somehow on a whole different level.
Watson - 90 TDs, 32 INTs, 8.4 YPA
Lawrence - 90 TDs, 17 INTs, 8.9 YPA
Watson does have 1000 more rushing yards and a slightly higher YPC average, but Trevor has him beat in basically every relevant passing stat. Most importantly, DW4 was quite loose with the football and Trevor was not.
I do think Watson had that "it" factor and played his best football in big games, but I certainly wouldn't have him a tier above Trevor. If anything, I'd probably give Trevor the very slight nod because he's gonna commit half the turnovers.
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Orange Elite [5351]
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Can we get serious now?
Jul 30, 2024, 10:40 AM
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Completion percentage (67.4 vs. 66.6) - DW4 wins
Passing yards (10,163 vs. 10,098) - DW4 wins
Passing TDs (90) - Tied
INTs (32 vs. 17) - TL16 wins
Rushing yards (1,934 vs. 943) - DW4 wins
Rushing TDs (26 vs. 18) - DW4 wins
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Paw Master [17824]
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Re: Clemson Does Not Need An Epic QB To Win A Title
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Jul 27, 2024, 12:11 AM
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uga won with Stetson Bennett the 10th at QB. Dude went to school for 7 years with no degree. He had some quickness, quick decisions and all day long behind an OL that could block.
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110%er [3991]
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Re: Clemson Does Not Need An Epic QB To Win A Title
Aug 13, 2024, 2:12 PM
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No GA degree after 7 years - gmab
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Tiger Spirit [9354]
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Re: Clemson Does Not Need An Epic QB To Win A Title
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Jul 27, 2024, 8:10 AM
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You don’t ave to have an epic QB but you would need epic players at all other positions so the problem is the same.
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Athletic Dir [1139]
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Re: Clemson Does Not Need An Epic QB To Win A Title
Jul 27, 2024, 9:59 AM
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But a sorry QB can certainly prevent you from ever winning one...QB play has often destroyed great Wisconsin teams...Bama has suffered in the past by marginal QBs! Great Texas teams of the sixties had QB tied to the bone...would never play a down in the NFL...yet Colt McCoy could have won it all twice...good team players can often overcome talent defiencies!
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Scout Team [86]
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Re: Clemson Does Not Need An Epic QB To Win A Title
Jul 28, 2024, 4:15 PM
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Clemson has not proven they can win a title without a great QB!! BOTH DW4 & TL were ELITE!!! To argue 1 was not is laughable & u show your football knowledge, or lack thereof! Cade & the OL would have to show MASSIVE improvement for us to have a shot!! And those are huge 'ifs'
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National Champion [7416]
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IMO Deshaun was better than Trevor. Didnt have as many
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Jul 27, 2024, 10:16 AM
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Measurable's as Trevor but had a knack for willing his way to victory. He was not going to lose. I never worried about close games with Deshaun. I did however worry about our offense in Trevor’s last year. We underachieved in what we should have been. Not sure if that was his fault or the OCs fault but our efficiency on offense wasn’t great. What saved us in many games that year was big runs by ETN and that 85 yard run by Trevor against OSU. And most of those plays were busts that our good players just made a play.
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Rival Killer [2772]
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Re: IMO Deshaun was better than Trevor. Didnt have as many
Jul 31, 2024, 1:34 PM
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TL16 further removed from Morris' system, so I gotta say for my eyes and remembrance, the playcalling reflected that and favors DW4 in that regard. TL16 got more talent, so the intangibles kind of offset IMO.
As far as OC, We went from Mad Genius to Dumb & Dumber IMO, and listen up...
...REGARDLESS OF THE TALENT OVERCOMPENSATION THAT MASKED IT during the D&D years.
Luckily, the overcompensation was enough to gain some hardware on the heels of Morris' tuned system and the recruiting boon we got from it, before the system slowly lost steam and talent during the D&D years and resulted in what we're dealing with now.
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Top TigerNet [31000]
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That certainly hasn't been true in the past...
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Jul 27, 2024, 11:27 AM
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None of our titles came with anything OTHER than an elite or 'special' QB.
Watson and TL... generational
Jordan... maybe no generational, but certainly special for his time.
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Paw Warrior [4958]
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Whats more important
Jul 28, 2024, 6:01 AM
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The ingredients or the recipe. If your making beef stew the cut of beef is less important.
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110%er [4068]
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Most people will take DW4 over TL16
Jul 28, 2024, 9:51 AM
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As they should. Trevor had more arm talent and speed, but Watson was much more of a playmaker. The elite guy Watson had with him was Mike Williams and he was hurt half the time. TL had ETN and Tee. Much more
to work with IMO.
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Letterman [264]
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Re: Clemson Does Not Need An Epic QB To Win A Title
Jul 28, 2024, 8:50 PM
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True, but one that can read a D and not turn the ball over 3-4 x a game would help. A comeback win over Kentucky ain’t cutting it for a team that’s far better than that. Clemson needs to get a QB quick. They don’t have an elite, and honestly a good QB right now. It’s tough to say but light years behind the Watson/ Lawrence days.
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Dynasty Maker [3273]
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Re: Clemson Does Not Need An Epic QB To Win A Title
Jul 28, 2024, 9:33 PM
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I think a tall fast deep wide receiver threat is more important than a deep WR room. Our receivers do not scare anyone. Hopefully that changes this year with our 2 new phenoms.
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Legend [6818]
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Re: Clemson Does Not Need An Epic QB To Win A Title
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Jul 30, 2024, 7:02 AM
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You lost me at DW4 was not generational. He only sits with better numbers than TL16. Over 10k passing yards and nearly 2k rushing yards. DW4 has a higher completion rate as well. He’s only second behind TB10 in yardage. Asinine comment. Not to mention he had one of the highest win % in college football history.
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TigerNet Elite [76567]
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I hesitate to even bring up a Dawg QB, but Clemson could win it all with a
Jul 30, 2024, 9:50 AM
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Jake from State Fromm type of QB. A steady game manager who does not make a glaring mistake, takes what the defense gives, and then relies on a stellar defense to protect the points he puts on the board.
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Rival Killer [2705]
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Re: Clemson Does Not Need An Epic QB To Win A Title
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Jul 30, 2024, 9:55 AM
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Lmao are you high? They were both generational. I never felt like we were out of a game with Watson.
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CU Medallion [20825]
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"Deshaun Watson is not a generational QB."
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Jul 30, 2024, 10:12 AM
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Dynasty Maker [3409]
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An ACC Title and maybe first round...no, Final Four... Yes
Jul 30, 2024, 10:47 AM
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It takes one plus a dominating D to win it all. Lacking in one of those and you might get lucky.
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Clemson Icon [27578]
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I really liked
Aug 13, 2024, 1:12 PM
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That kid named Steve Fuller !
But what does an old geaser like me know about football?
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All-Pro [775]
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Re: Clemson Does Not Need An Epic QB To Win A Title
Aug 13, 2024, 1:30 PM
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I think the OP got derailed by at DW-TL debate.
I would amend your 6th point to add, provide blocking and have the ability to catch. That gives you the additional threat out of the backfield or provides the above average QB additional time.
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110%er [3991]
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Re: Clemson Does Not Need An Epic QB To Win A Title
Aug 13, 2024, 2:14 PM
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We didn't have an epic qb when we won our first NC and I was there
but he got the job done
GO TIGERS
I would take both Trevor and DeShaun in a minute
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