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Replies: 18
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Hall of Famer [24848]
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Noonan in NCAA tournament
May 7, 2021, 2:26 PM
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Mike Noonan has done an incredible job with our soccer program, there is no question about that at all.
His teams have underperformed their seeds in 4 of the past 5 NCAA tournaments however.
The 7 NCAA tournament appearances under Noonan:
2021: #1 overall seed. Round of 16 to Marshall. (penalties)
2019: #2 overall seed. Elite Eight to Stanford at home. (penalties)
2018: no tournament, down year
2017: #8 overall seed. 2nd round to Coastal Carolina at home 3-1
2016: #3 overall seed. Elite Eight to Denver at home 1-0
2015: #2 overall seed. National Title game to Stanford 4-0
2014: #7 overall seed. Round of 16 to unseeded UNC at home 2-1
2013: unseeded. 1st Round to Elon (penalties)
so of the 7 tournament appearances, 5 of them have ended with the Tigers underperforming their seed. 4 of the losses at home (this year at a neutral site).
I wonder if the cause of this is style of play related or if it is a Leggett playing too tight issue.
Again this is in no way a critique of Noonan as a coach overall, it is simply pointing out the disappointing ends to the last few seasons.
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Orange Blooded [3545]
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I’ve wondered the same...
May 7, 2021, 2:54 PM
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I’d like to speculate but I have virtually no knowledge of soccer as I’m relatively new to the sport . It’s been fun watching soccer lately , a lot actually; tho I wish the early exits weren’t so frequent
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Hall of Famer [20518]
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Re: Noonan in NCAA tournament
May 7, 2021, 3:05 PM
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Soccer is random, man. You get in and it's all about who gets the hot team at the right moment, especially in a tournament format, whereas seedings tend to reflect who had the most consistent program over the course of the whole season.
Noonan has some really, really consistent teams that perform awesome over the course of a season, but then once you get into a tournie, it's put-em-in-a-hat and shake-it-around. Seeds matter a whole lot less in soccer than they do in say, football or basketball.
Form is what matters in soccer, and form can change a lot month-to-month. And that can be incredibly random, and beyond any coach's control. The fact that his teams are as consistent as they are is testament to how good Noonan really is.
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110%er [5675]
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Re: Noonan in NCAA tournament
May 7, 2021, 3:20 PM
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Agreed, he has done a great job. Congrats to the team on a very good year!
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Hall of Famer [24848]
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I’m thinking of 2019
May 7, 2021, 3:48 PM
[ in reply to Re: Noonan in NCAA tournament ] |
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Where in the regular season we could not stop scoring goals every game. But you could tell their was a difference in the tournament. Barely got past Charlotte and Providence before falling to Stanford. The flow and chemistry didn’t seem as crisp at all.
I know college soccer is often more defensive based as teams try to defend first. Noonan’s style is more open and attacking. So I could see how a defensive approach could frustrate a team that’s used to being able to score at will.
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Letterman [283]
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Take yesterday for example
May 7, 2021, 4:16 PM
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Marshall played 11 behind the ball almost the entire second half. They had very few attacking opportunities, even on the counter attack when we did turn the ball over.
You get that a lot in a tournament setting or a one-game winner advances situation. This is one of the reasons why most professional tournaments have a 2-leg round. That typically allows the better team to progress thru the tournament.
In our situation yesterday, we couldn't break down their D and get a shot to go in. Marshall essentially was playing for OT/PKs after it was tied at halftime.
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Orange Blooded [4086]
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Re: Take yesterday for example
May 7, 2021, 6:16 PM
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Pretty much this.
If you watched the game yesterday, we looked like the better team.
WVa played defensively trying to extend things and it worked.
It's what Clemson's women team did to make it to the Elite 8.
It's an issue with any one and done tournament in a low scoring sport.
Message was edited by: castaway®
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Hall of Famer [20518]
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Re: I’m thinking of 2019
May 7, 2021, 4:26 PM
[ in reply to I’m thinking of 2019 ] |
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Yeah, and again, parking ten guys behind the ball works a lot better in a tournament setting than it does over the course of a season too because you only have to keep it up for three or four games. Over the course of a season your guys will wear down if you park the bus, bunker, and chase.
Having the ball is ever so much easier. But come the tournie you're going to run into teams that are willing to run themselves into the ground to challenge everything and until you can get a goal up on them and force them to come out and play they can make your life miserable, and God help you if they grab a goal on you with a free kick or corner, you'll never get 'em out of their own back third. If they can take it to PK's with a 0-0 they absolutely will, too.
How it always goes. It's that little extra bit of quality that lets you finally unlock those kind of teams, and it's never easy. And even when we've had a Robbie Rodgers it sometimes didn't happen.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Hall of Famer [20518]
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Re: I’m thinking of 2019
May 7, 2021, 8:01 PM
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Well, I actually am a coach. Truth. USSF National D. I used to coach state-level Academy kids. Actually I coached one of the kids on Noonan's roster, in fact, used to play with my son.
The inferior team always bunkers. Just how it is. It's how you survive the game as the weaker team. Kind of the cool (and often frustrating!) part about soccer, even the weaker team always has a puncher's chance, and sometimes it's about pure and simple will, how much you're willing to rip your guts out and suffer for it. (Defending is tiring!) Get compact, dig in, defend, defend, defend. Hope you survive, try to steal the game with a free kick or a corner or a counter. When you pile everybody behind the ball, you make it really, really tough on the other team. A team really committed to defending can be almost impossible to break down if they're good enough at it, can take something really special to break them down, usually takes some moment of really special individual skill to produce that breakthrough, you're not going to just be able to pass your way into the net.
Example, Champions League a couple days ago. Chelsea against Real Madrid. Chelsea was already up 1-0, but they couldn't put Madrid away. American wonderkid Christian Pulisic finally stuck the knife in. #10 put in a pass to Mason Mount...boom, done. Finished. And it's that one bit of sweet skill, that little stepover and hesitation on the end line, right before he puts in the pass that seals the match, that finally seals the deal.
https://twitter.com/UCLonCBSSports/status/1390045884100972544?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1390045884100972544%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fsbisoccer.com%2F2021%2F05%2Fchristian-pulisic-delivers-assist-to-help-chelsea-secure-place-in-uefa-champions-league-final
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Hall of Famer [24848]
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Yeah, my favorite club team, West Brom has to bunker every game pretty much
May 7, 2021, 9:09 PM
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In the Premier league. But then when they get relegated to the championship, they are often
Bossing the matches in that league
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Orange Blooded [2987]
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Clemson got hurt by split season this year pretty hard.
May 7, 2021, 4:49 PM
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We lost 3 great players to the MLS draft that played the fall season but are gone for spring. Just imagine if we had 3 more MLS players on the team. I agree while we had a great season, it was disappointing finish yesterday. I got a bad feeling when they had like 4 shots on goal in the last 5min of regulation, we just lost our pep in the second half. We didn't play well in overtime, Marshall looked much more aggressive. Then when we blocked that second penalty kick, I just knew we lucked into the win and was excited to see the next game as I figured the scare would kick them up a notch. Then when we banged a penalty off the upright, I knew we lost somehow. I just got the feeling that cost us the game and it did.
Noonan definitely does a great job for Clemson, just wish he could put the big one in the trophy case. If he continues to coach this high level, his time will come. He has some serious recruiting to do right now to replace professional talent lost.
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110%er [6825]
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Re: Noonan in NCAA tournament
May 7, 2021, 4:59 PM
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Soccer at the elite end of College has a LOT more parity. Now there is less between the upper end and lower ends of the spectrum, I think folks get confused if aware of the Arena era at UVA or professional soccer (where there is little parity), that the modern college game is very different. Even with some mismatch causing style changes, just being a "higher need" isn't a guarantee. Take Clemson '87 - I think we were a low/unseeded team that took down all of the other higher seeds. Likewise, the last time a No 1 has won it was UNC when they could fake their classes in 2011, normally the champ comes from the middle
I see Noonan building a very consistent team/program. They play well and are in the hunt consistantly with a dangerous team.
It could be worse, wake as been #1 seed like 3-4 times and I don't think they have made it to the final.
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Orange Blooded [4086]
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Re: Noonan in NCAA tournament
May 7, 2021, 6:20 PM
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So, the issue is that if you are the number one seed you have no where to go but down.
If you make it to the finals that is what you are supposed to do.
If you lose before then, you underperformed.
Would you be happier if we had been .500 for the season and had made it to the sweet 16 and lost on PKs?
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110%er [6654]
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Don't know much about soccer, but their goalie was about 2x
May 7, 2021, 6:34 PM
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The size of ours, and appeared just as athletic. To my admittingly ignorant eyes, that appear to be difference in game?
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Orange Blooded [2032]
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Clemson Soccer
May 7, 2021, 10:28 PM
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Both programs are in great shape.,..
Both teams played similar games...
Our men’s team was the superior team but Marshall played to get to PKs....
Marshall did to the men’s team what or women’s team did to UCLA...
A bit ironic actually...
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Hall of Famer [21722]
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Brownlee woulda won them all!!!
May 8, 2021, 8:46 AM
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Sorry, this poast had a Judge type feel to it.
The result of the game made me think the following...
Why isn’t Clemson Football playing their 2-3 matchup in the CFP today? Cuz it felt like that in the soccer tournament this year. Let’s play the tournament, the thing that determines the ultimate champion of the season, AFTER all of the best players are taken off the contending teams. Sure!!! Makes sense!!! I feel much about better playing OSU with Justin Fields in Chicago. Let’s do it!
This complete soccer season is beyond weird with this abnormality.
I don’t know the ends and outs of soccer like other sports, but I think postseason soccer and baseball share a lot of similarities. Biggest thing: luck. A lot of luck is needed to win it all. And also with both sports the importance of defense. Soccer more than baseball, but there are just not a lot of true chances for scoring. If you don’t capitalize on the 3 or 4 prime opportunities you get during an entire game you have to go to PKs and that’s a big ol’ game of chance.
It was a really good year. I have faith in Noonan. I think he’s really, really close to bringing home another championship to Clemson.
~JKB
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All-In [48116]
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Re: Brownlee woulda won them all!!!
May 8, 2021, 9:45 AM
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And we had a wonderful opportunity in the 87th minute (or thereabouts) and just didn't get it done. Thought at that point, interesting comments from announcers about the difference in balls and possibly hurting Clemson a bit. Why is there not standards? Kinda sounded like deflategate...
At least in baseball, you can have that one bad game and if you're elite enough with pitching, you can climb your way out.
Unfortunately you just can't have that in sports where running and physicality is key ingredient.
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All-In [48116]
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Re: Noonan in NCAA tournament
May 8, 2021, 9:46 AM
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It still stings though. I was convinced this was our year.
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