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Topic: I’m happy to talk about basketball with anyone who wants to.
Replies: 63   Last Post: Apr 1, 2021, 6:49 AM by: magicman
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I’m happy to talk about basketball with anyone who wants to.

emoji_events [17]
Posted: Mar 28, 2021, 11:29 PM
 

We had a very good season, regardless of what some of you think.

Losing O-Max to transfer really stinks, but his reason for leaving was unrelated to anything our staff said or did. It was known for a while, which partly explains why his minutes declined so much down the stretch.

Losing Newman to transfer wasn’t surprising. He wasn’t the same player this year and was passed on the depth chart.

Losing two transfers stinks, but unfortunately that is the nature of college basketball today. There are literally thousands of college basketball players already in the transfer portal this year.

Losing Goins was for two good reasons. He got a promotion, and is joining the coach who recommended him to Coach Brownell. More importantly, he will be closer to his wife’s family member who is in poor health.

We have an opportunity to get better this offseason if we bring in the right players. My biggest concern is losing Goins, who is a good recruiter. We need to replace him with another good recruiter.

We will be fine. This past week really sucked though.

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


So, what's the report on the John Butler?

[1]
Posted: Mar 28, 2021, 11:52 PM
 

Is he a legit player? Will he have an impact on the college level? Were we ever really in the mix for his commitment? Any info to understand how a guy in our backyard is committing to fsu...

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I commented on this in another thread.

[1]
Posted: Mar 29, 2021, 12:00 AM
 

We recruited him from early on and offered him a scholarship a long time ago. He made it clear that he didn’t want to stay close to home.

He’s really tall but he needs to add a lot of weight to be a factor. He’s really raw, and he didn’t play great competition in high school. He didn’t exactly dominate the AAU circuit either.

Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to have him, but he isn’t an instant impact player at all. More of a long-term project. He will get good coaching at FSU and he will have a chance to develop into a nice player there.

I’m not sure why you think we should automatically get a player just because he is from nearby. This isn’t 1970. Players take recruiting trips all over the place now. The pressure to stay close to home isn’t nearly what it used to be.

Do you blame Tony Bennett for letting Aamir Simms get away?

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Also why would you come to Clemson and play


Posted: Mar 29, 2021, 8:44 PM
 

basketball when you can go to FSU? And play under Hamilton instead of Brownell?

link

you assumed a lot based on a singular question...


Posted: Mar 30, 2021, 6:01 PM
 

...but as we say round these parts, a hit dog will holler... LOL

I've mentioned plenty that there are many players raised up in SC that believe they can go elsewhere, and get what they want and more. It's the coaches job to make the sale to the top recruits in SC that builds that desire in them to stay closer to home, but the truth is that it's happening less and isn't building consistency in the program.
I'm a realist that NOTHING is an automatic (including Steph Curry at the free throw line), but I am also aware of self inflicted recruiting misfires as well. Butler is just one of hundreds that don't want to play close to home, but that doesn't absolve the staff of being responsible to proverbially sell ice to eskimos in Alaska...
Go get Amir Simms when Bennett doesn't make him a priority, go get Demontez Stitt or KC Rivers when Duke or UNC don't even offer or at least make them feel that they are wanted, go get Boogie McIntyre or Andre Young when they have been told that they are too small to play in the ACC, go get Will Solomon when Kentucky won't give him a look... But don't overlook or just give courtesy calls to those hundreds in state that say that they can't and won't be sold. With some of them, you just haven't found out what it takes to sell them, and that's the staffs job as well as it is their job to recognize the potential in a recruit that nobody else sees and don't be scared to gamble on it... Imagine if we had gambled on a recruit that wanted the offer and we only made the offer after he committed to Murray State. It may not have meant anything to the opportunity for success in the program, but we will never know because the thought exercised was that big time CU could swoop in and pluck that player from lil ole Murray State... but that's just water under the bridge and historical coulda shoulda wouldas except these kind of things have happened more than they reasonably should...

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I’m sorry, I don’t understand your point.


Posted: Mar 30, 2021, 7:16 PM
 

You seem to suggest that we didn’t recruit John Butler hard enough. I’m not sure why you think that. Sometimes players just aren’t interested in a school.

As for finding the diamonds in the rough, those players are really hard to find with any consistency. If they were easy to spot, they wouldn’t fly under the radar. If we are relying on recruiting unrecognized talent, and/or taking underdeveloped players and developing them into good players, we will fail every time.

Sure, it’s nice to hit on a Larry Nance, but for every one of those cases there are thousands who were equally unheralded and didn’t amount to anything.

I don’t understand the Ja Morant examples being used frequently here, as if our staff didn’t do their homework and should’ve offered him. The guy wasn’t highly recruited at all. Of course it would’ve been great for our coaches to do what no other major program did, and identify him as a star and sign him and make him a first round draft pick, but we didn’t. Expecting us to do that is asking too much in my opinion.

Again, I don’t really understand the point of your post but I tried my best to answer what I thought you were saying.

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


So, let me make sure I have this straight.


Posted: Mar 30, 2021, 8:04 PM
 

We’re not big time enough to get the top recruits.

Also- it’s too much to ask of our staff to identify and sign the diamonds in the rough.

So...does this mean we will never have good enough players?

We should look forward to more years of “we created good shots, but our guys just aren’t good enough to make them.” ???

Wow. I’m on the edge of my seat.

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Well, yeah.


Posted: Mar 30, 2021, 11:27 PM
 

When has Clemson ever had a talent level anywhere close to most of the rest of the ACC?

Maybe a year or two here or there, but those seasons are very rare and are not sustained.

Historically, it comes down to coaching. Scheme, Xs and Os, and finding ways to create some sort of advantage. With Barnes and Brownell, it was slowing down the game. With Purnell, it was the full court press.

People here keep clamoring for a more exciting brand of basketball, but don’t realize that our approach has been to focus on defense and limiting possessions, thereby allowing our (typically less talented) players to keep it competitive with a chance to hopefully win. Sure, fun ‘n gun is exciting to watch, but it only works if you have really really good offensive players - better than the other team’s.

How many fast paced teams have success in the long run? Not very many.

Focusing on defense first is the recipe for success at Clemson, as well as 99% of programs. That’s just not an easy sell to a lot of recruits. Players want to dunk and shoot threes, not get into passing lanes and draw charges. Plus, the super talented recruits want to do their year in college and go to the NBA. They don’t want to stick around, learn, and grow.

Brad is a detailed coach. He expects a lot. He’s tough, but fair. Some of the guys we have lost to transfer realized they don’t like hard work. Others simply wanted more playing time elsewhere.

I say all of that to say that we are in a tough spot. A lot of it does mean finding guys who flew under the radar somewhat, but as I mentioned you can’t rely on those to build a program. We need just enough of the 4 star players who were highly recruited but not so much that they wouldn’t consider Clemson. Guys like Aamir Simms, Al-Amir Dawes, etc. If we can get enough of those, plus enough of the 3 star types who largely went unnoticed, we can be a consistent presence in the big dance.

Once we’ve strung together a few of those, hopefully we can start to get more of the 4 star guys and less of the 3 star guys.

It’s a slow process I know, but it’s our only path to a program that is top 1/3rd of the ACC consistently. I believe Brad is getting us there.

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: I’m happy to talk about basketball with anyone who wants to.

[1]
Posted: Mar 28, 2021, 11:57 PM
 

And what was the reason that O=Max is headed to another campus, JK? I do not know and sure creates some gaps. Brad Brownell has got to get some talent and quickly. Our offense will be shockingly sad in the next season without some studs that can shoot.
If BC ends up with any of the 3 departures, Brad best be careful as to his next assistant hire.

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O-Max’s departure is a private matter and I can’t comment.

[2]
Posted: Mar 29, 2021, 12:03 AM
 

I agree about our need to get some more shooters, but we didn’t lose much in the way of shooting. Between Simms, Trapp, Baehre, Prosper, and Newman, Simms was the only good shooter in the group and he didn’t take many outside shots.

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: I’m happy to talk about basketball with anyone who wants to.


Posted: Mar 29, 2021, 12:29 AM
 

What a woos you are !!! Won’t even show up after another one and done! Fire you and Brad Brownleeeeee

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Re: I’m happy to talk about basketball with anyone who wants to.

[1]
Posted: Mar 29, 2021, 12:39 AM
 

I’ve supported Brownell up until now... we need a change... even if it sux. Too much bumping along to get along for my liking at this point. But hey, folks hate me because I say uncomfortable things. Oh well...

Still love Clemson and my Tigers forever. Hence why I think we need to move on.


Message was edited by: hufferbilly®


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Re: I’m happy to talk about basketball with anyone who wants to.


Posted: Mar 29, 2021, 9:42 AM
 

From the last two weeks on this site, saying Brownell should go isn't "uncomfortable." Defending Brownell would classify as "uncomfortable."

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I certainly understand why someone would want to go in another direction.

[1]
Posted: Mar 29, 2021, 6:56 PM
 

Sometimes it’s just time for a fresh perspective.

What I don’t understand are the people who act like we are a bad team/program. They seem to expect us to be a powerhouse program without an investment to do what it takes to get there.

So since you want someone else, I have four questions for you:

1. Who will you hire?
2. How much will you pay him?
3. What are your expectations in terms of wins, conference finish, postseason play, etc.?
4. What changes will you make in terms of program support to help him reach those goals?

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: I certainly understand why someone would want to go in another direction.


Posted: Mar 30, 2021, 10:57 AM
 

In my opinion, hiring the best assistants is near the top of the want/need list (and the money to do so).

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"It is not part of a true culture to tame tigers any more than it is to make sheep ferocious."
--Henry David Thoreau


Ok, we have and had talent but please answer if u know.

[2]
Posted: Mar 30, 2021, 8:46 PM
 

On Brownell as a game coach... Why does Brownell let his team go cold while the other team takes a lead and calls timeouts way to late? Why does he not set an offense for a press break until being pressed for 3 mins? Why does Brownell consistently mismanage the clock almost every game including the Rutgers game at the end of regulation? I literally see him trying to be a head coach, assistant coach, clock manager, player subs etc... by himself. This goes all the way back to games like Pittsburgh playing in the colosseum when he let pit inbound the ball under the basket after it was out on pit and our players are not guarding 5 to 8 ft paint shots and Pitt has the shot clock go off with the ball still in hand and the refs wait 10 mins to say it was good. I sat baseline that game and was yelling to Brownell to let the refs know. Instead he was in a huddle making his strategery understood for ot! He never even looked at the refs. Why is he flaccid and uncommonly unconcerned with what’s happening during a game? Should fans of Clemson ball just be satisfied with a 2 star coach because he can rattle off everything about bball and he’s an x and o guy? On the court game time he is always thinking about the future instead of the present. I was super hyped about him when he came in because of his bball iq but I did not know he was not a recruiter or a game coach or a void in the staff. I really think he would make a great pro coach because he can research fundamentals and keep players grounded and lead but he could count on players to make in game adjustments. Just tell me anyone who has left Clemson a better ball player than when they came? Not weight or mass but who has he developed into a better player? Cliff could develop big men wonderfully! Even shyatt could recruit better! Purnell is on another level of recruiting that Brownell will never achieve and he developed players with a gimmick game plan! Clemson can get a better coach and it’s a lie to say we can’t.

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You said a lot there.


Posted: Mar 30, 2021, 11:30 PM
 

You seem to have your mind firmly made up, so why should I type a long response? I don’t want to waste your time or mine.

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Good points until you evoked the name of Shyatt recruiting


Posted: Mar 31, 2021, 11:11 AM
 

better players....nossir just nossir. He hit on Wil Solomon, Ed Scott, Chris Hobbs, and maybe Akinbala who turned out to be pretty good at the end. Shyatt couldn't ever get a supporting cast. We always had one good player and a bunch of just scrubs. Our team this past year could put 5 serviceable players on the court whereas Shyatt we might have 2 of the 5. You gotta admit that when this Clemson team was on they were pretty unbeatable. But when they hit their groggy games then it was almost inevitably a loss.

Rutgers game was slow and confusing. Rutgers seemed to try and give us that games many times. We just didn't fight for rebounds late and seemed disinterested. This season we (at times) have shown that we could win in spite of ourselves but that unfortunately wasn't the case this time. And usually never is in the tourney.

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Re: I’m happy to talk about basketball with anyone who wants to.

emoji_events [10]
Posted: Mar 29, 2021, 1:26 AM
 

If this Goins was our best recruiter, maybe losing him was not such a bad thing.

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Re: I’m happy to talk about basketball with anyone who wants to.


Posted: Mar 29, 2021, 6:58 AM
 

Judge, why did O-Max leave. You alluded to a reason but never stated it.

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Re: I’m happy to talk about basketball with anyone who wants to.


Posted: Mar 29, 2021, 9:39 AM
 

I don't think it has been made public, yet. It seems from multiple places that he was transferring regardless.

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It’s not my place to say why, so I won’t.***


Posted: Mar 29, 2021, 6:56 PM
 



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Re: I’m happy to talk about basketball with anyone who wants to.


Posted: Mar 29, 2021, 8:36 AM
 

The biggest problem I see is player development. In the last several years we have seen very talented kids come into the program. They more often than not do not seem to develop beyond their high school athletic abilities. My main example would be Milton Jennings. High recruit and good player. But every year it seemed he was supposed to take the next step but didn’t. There was never any development. This is with other players as well. At some point isn’t coaching to blame for this shortfall? I’m not placing the blame directly on Brownell for that because staff has a big role but ultimately the head coach is responsible for everything in the program just as a CEO is responsible for everything in a business.

What’s your opinion on the short comings of player development under this teams leadership?

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Jennings was a red flag from the start for me


Posted: Mar 29, 2021, 8:44 AM
 

Remember he was a SCISA player. So he was playing against a bunch of private school kids at schools of around 50-70 people per grade. Even if you have starter level talent for the SoCon you are going to look like a star. Thus, I was not surprised that Jennings struggled to ever adapt to facing the huge jump up in talent. Not making excuses for Brad as it is his job to help players get better and adapt to facing D-1 talent. But I do think Jennings was a tougher case than usual.

Seventh Woods, another SCISA player, had essentially the same trajectory. Very highly touted and top recruit for UNC. As much as we hate him, Roy is a great coach and obviously can utilize and develop talent. However, Woods did have much success in the college game either.


Message was edited by: CTiger423®

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Re: Jennings was a red flag from the start for me


Posted: Mar 29, 2021, 9:40 AM
 

I watched Jennings in high school. I think he was forced into a role that didn't suit his abilities. He was stretch 4, but he was asked to bang down low.

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I would question your assessment that we have brought in “very good talent.”

[2]
Posted: Mar 29, 2021, 7:07 PM
 

We have brought in some good players, but make no mistake, we are almost always at a talent disadvantage in games we play against most power 5 opponents. This isn’t unique to Brad. It’s been a recurring theme throughout Clemson basketball history except for a few instances where the stars aligned and we got lucky on an unheralded recruit who blossomed.

I think player development is one of Brad’s strong suits. There are many examples of players who have made notable improvements over their years in Clemson. Look at big men, with Grant, Djitte, Nnoko, and Thomas. In terms of swing players, McDaniels, Blossomgame, and Simms improved a lot. In the backcourt, we saw a lot of improvement in Devoe. These are just some examples across the different positions.

Brownell routinely gets more out of less. Based on talent, we should be finishing in the bottom 1/2 to bottom 1/3rd of the ACC. But we average a 7th place finish out of 15 teams.

To win more, we need to recruit better. I believe that has certainly improved over the last few cycles but top 20 classes need to become the norm and not the exception. Since no one has ever consistently done that at Clemson, I believe there needs to be more emphasis from the administration that we are a basketball school (in addition to football, of course, not instead of) and give our coach the staff and facilities he needs to consistently do that.

I think it’s important for this new assistant coach hire to be a dynamic recruiter. We need to pay him very well and do whatever it takes to keep him here.

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Judge - honest questions


Posted: Mar 30, 2021, 12:32 PM
 

Judge, you say that Brad develops. Maybe I am missing it.
Your comment on bigs. He has brought in several bigs and they all have transferred out over the past several years. And this year - Kidd got 35 minutes all year - when we have no inside game. What am I missing?
Recruiting in general -
Why did the recruit bale?
How are so many teams able to get 2 and 3 stars and make them work and BB has not been able to make the jump? Aka GT and getting player of year and defensive player of year - both not highly ranked.
I think it is highly unlikely, we would start getting 5 or mostly 4 stars (until we make a jump in quality of team results) - so how are others finding these lower ranked and making it work?

I do think we need a change, but if we are not - please give me something to hold on to that actually shows me that BB has what it takes.
I watch the dance and see offenses that move and work well. I see bigs that are role players, rim protectors, rebounders, I see guards that can shoot, slashing forwards (more than one) and I am jealous. I see physical teams winning.

If 11 years is not enough - how long do you think it should take to move us beyond our average over the past 5 years?

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Re: Judge - honest questions

[1]
Posted: Mar 30, 2021, 1:34 PM
 

It seems that you are criticizing Brad for having players transfer out. Is that correct?

Many teams are dealing with 3-4 transfers this offseason. We have two. It happens, and will keep happening as long as it remains easy for a player to seek greener pastures.

If we're discussing player development, I think it's only fair to evaluate those who were in the program several years. I mentioned many players, from big men to swing players to guards, who have made notable improvements during their time at Clemson.

Regarding Kidd, I think he will be a good player. Remember, he was supposed to be a senior in high school this year but reclassified due to COVID. The decision was made to get him on campus and let him be coached and developed on the college level, rather than essentially wasting a year in high school. He wasn't ready to play much this year, and that's no indication of his skill set or talent level. I think we will see him play a lot more next year.

There will always be examples of unheralded players who develop in college and become stars. We have had those players too. Remember K.J. McDaniels? Unfortunately, no one builds a program around those players. There aren't enough to go around for one team to rely on them.

Recruiting is about much more than the head coach. Of course recruits need to view Brownell positively. All indications are that they do. His players love him. But any 4 or 5 star player is going to be meeting with successful coaches who tell them that they have a great program and can help them get where they want to go. What does Clemson have to sell?

If you are a top basketball recruit and are considering Clemson along with 20 other schools, what stands out about Clemson? The new facilities help, but they are not the eye-popping, over the top facilities that our football team has. The facility upgrades were very needed, but Clemson missed a golden opportunity to do something very special. As usual, we went cheap and renovated existing facilities rather than simply building new ones. UVA went big 15 years ago and built John Paul Jones Arena. Even the Gamecocks went big when they built the Colonial Life Arena. We didn't.

But at least we have facilities that we don't have to be embarrassed by. That's good. What else? Recruits don't come to Clemson and see passionate basketball fans. They probably assume that Clemson doesn't care much about basketball. Then they go to a football game on a recruiting visit, which is fun, but it doesn't help sell them on Clemson basketball. They know that Clemson basketball is historically poor. They don't look around an arena and see conference championship banners or national championship banners. They don't see a lot of retired jerseys. They see a nice arena that is usually not full, without much basketball history. Yawn.

Right now, we sell recruits on several things:

1. Updated facilities which aren't eye popping but which are still very nice and have some good player perks.
2. A coaching staff that is knowledgeable and approachable, and cares for the players.
3. A close-knit group of players.
4. Good academics with a high graduation rate.
5. The chance to play in the ACC.

Most of the recruits we sign are considering programs like Georgia Tech, Wake Forest, Virginia Tech, etc., along with mid-major programs. We compare favorably to those schools, but we must move up a tier.

To recruit better, it's crucial that Brad makes a really dynamic assistant coach hire. This coach needs to be really good when it comes to recruiting. And we must keep this coach. Will Clemson be willing to provide the financial outlay for this type of hire?

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: Judge - honest questions


Posted: Mar 30, 2021, 3:52 PM
 

To answer your question - am I criticizing BB for players leaving - the simple answer is yes.
Are all on him, absolutely not.
Several bigs in a row have been brought in as highly recruited, and each have left. And now Kidd playing so few minutes.
It is not like a guard, where they might be buried in the depth chart and simply want more playing time.
When we have 1 center on the team and he chooses to leave - after not playing - the question in my mind is why? How do you develop when you don’t play?
When we are up against a tall team and getting beat on the boards and our tallest guy is fighting hard and outsized, we could use some help.
I guess I was asking for real insight as to why bigs don’t stay . Is it the offense we run where they want to be involved? Is it simply playing time? Were they led to believe the offense would be different?
It is the pattern I was asking about - not all transfers.

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Re: Judge - honest questions


Posted: Mar 30, 2021, 4:10 PM
 

I view player development as an agreement between coach and player. The coach is responsible for helping the player develop skills and understanding of the game, and then giving them opportunities to show that they are improving. The player is responsible for taking that teaching seriously, working hard, and making the most of the minutes they receive.

Coaches see these guys in practice, and can evaluate their performance well. They can reward that work in practice, skill sessions, film review, weight room, etc. by playing them in games if they have earned it. This isn't rocket science.

If a tall player who can clearly benefit us in terms of their height isn't playing much in games, then it is pretty obvious that their skill set and/or understanding of what we are trying to do isn't up to par yet. If it were, our coaches would play them.

Surely you aren't suggesting that our coaches play guys significant minutes who aren't ready to be relied upon.

If you wanted Brad to play a guy like Kidd, who is talented but raw and inexperienced, more minutes last year, whose minutes do you cut? I'd love to know.

Brad's track record of developing big men far outweighs the number of big men who didn't develop under his tutelage. Jemison definitely had potential - some had him as a 4 star, others a 3 star - but he was raw. He didn't get many minutes, and when he did, he didn't show much in terms of skill or contribution to the team.

We could've played younger guys more minutes this past season, which might have helped their development. But that would've come at the expense of a top 5 ACC finish and NCAA Tournament berth. It sounds like you would have preferred to play some of those guys for the sake of their development, even if it meant not having as much success on the court. I would rather win, and trust our coaches to play the guys who give us the best chance to do that.

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: I would question your assessment that we have brought in “very good talent.”


Posted: Mar 30, 2021, 11:29 PM
 

Ok that’s where I call bs very respectfully! Brownell has not developed a player beyond anything other than learning a playbook! First of all you throw Grants name out there like Brownell had anything to do with him! Grant was a senior when B started and he was a man and developed by purnell! Then you throw 2 highlight reels in the mix that started as highlight reels like JB and KJ! Starting with KJ he was a freak athlete that has almost a 54 inch vertical at 6’6” and he left the same way he came in except he new our playbook. As for JB he came in a highlight reel and his last year he made freshman mistakes constantly! I could write a book on the devolution of JB from fresh - senior! Simms just gained weight and learned a playbook while he matured and will be playing either euro ball or nothing in a year! God love them all! Sidy and Landry just learned not to put the ball on the floor under the basket but still did half the time!

So you say recruiting has improved but I don’t see recruiting as I see picking left overs from the transfer portal. This past year most of our games were won when Newman and Hemingway were on the court for the majority of the last 5 to 7 minutes! If I see that why does he not see that?

As to where we finished it was inevitable because the acc was completely overrated as a conference in bball! I expected at least a bye with who we had because I don’t care if Clem insider or fansided, esecpn or rubbin it out says something about where we should finish because it’s ridiculous to try and imagine they have any clue considering their track history.

Lastly to facilities, omg! They are there! Revamped LJC from top to bottom and allowed the kids to be on murder row plus the new offices and the fact they have full access to football chillin facilities

I hope I am making this reasonable and respectful cause I really a good dude! Ty

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It sounds like you are making some unfortunate assumptions.


Posted: Mar 30, 2021, 11:37 PM
 

Such as:

1. Any player who has succeeded at Clemson under Brownell has done so due to another coach (Purnell) or due to his own freak athleticism (McDaniels, Blossomgame) and had nothing to do with Brownell and Co.

2. Our success this year wasn’t because we are good, but because the rest of the ACC was down.

What would it take for you to give our coaches and players credit, rather than minimizing their success by crediting outside factors?

That would be like saying that Clemson is only good at football due to having such talented recruits and playing in a weak conference, and has nothing to do with the coaches who recruited these players, developed them, and helped them succeed. But I’m guessing you find that to be an unreasonable statement (as do I). So why don’t you see it equally as unreasonable when it comes to basketball?

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: It sounds like you are making some unfortunate assumptions.


Posted: Mar 31, 2021, 10:49 AM
 

Of course I give the coach and players credit every year! I love Clemson! If Clemson didn’t exist I would not watch football, basketball, etc... So I have learned and studied the sports and techniques for those sports and a general understanding through watching for half a century. The skills for a bball player are a learned process through repetition and desire. Brownell has made players better and it’s obvious that he knows bball. He played himself and has coached successful teams but he reached his ceiling in recruiting and development in the mid major. Coach B is at his best this past season but if our league wasn’t down and we had to play a few more games things could be drastically different.

So you were the op and said you would answer anything. I give you deatails of his developed players along with his game management and ask you how you see things. I didn’t mean to sound like a blowhard “haha i said blowhard” but sometimes text can be read with different emotions than intended.

The only thing I will ask is why should Clemson basketball fans believe Brownell can do better than he is doing?

P.s. read this with intent please. I know my avatar isn’t a jerk pic of b and I don’t claim to know anything other than what I see and digest.

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Reasons for optimism:

[1]
Posted: Mar 31, 2021, 4:46 PM
 

In terms of the 2020-2021 season:

1. We made the NCAA Tournament for the 12th time in program history.
2. We finished in the top 1/3rd of the ACC for the 10th time in program history.
3. We tied a Clemson record for most wins in a season over NCAA Tournament teams.
4. We didn't lose a single game to a quad 2, 3, or 4 team the entire regular season.

Over the last four years:

1. We have played in 2 of the last 3 NCAA Tournaments, with an NIT as well.
2. Our average finish in the ACC is 6.25 out of 15 teams.
3. We are 39-33 in the ACC, which I believe is our best ACC winning percentage over a four year span.
4. We signed a top 25 recruiting class, which we have only done a handful of times at Clemson.

Over his 11 year tenure:

1. All time winningest coach in Clemson basketball history.
2. Best ACC winning percentage in Clemson basketball history.
3. Only coach to defeat UNC in Chapel Hill.
4. Record graduation rates for men's basketball at Clemson.
5. Our players are model student-athletes who are active on campus and in the community.

College basketball at Clemson is a tough sell. You're selling a basketball program that is historically the worst in the ACC, at a school that is football crazy, to recruits who are basketball crazy. Thankfully, the new facilities were a step in the right direction, but that only puts on par with most of our ACC peers and not well ahead of them. In other words, we don't have the eye-popping, state-of-the-art facilities in basketball like we do in football. Add to that the changes which make it easier for players to transfer without sitting out a year, and there are a lot of uncertainties.

I have seen enough from Brownell to feel confident in his basketball knowledge, his ability to relate to players, and his ability to overachieve with virtually all of his teams relative to the competition. The key is recruiting. Last year's top 25 class was great, but this past year's class was top 35-40 and we lost one of those three players so it's more like a top 60 class. That isn't going to cut it. Losing Prosper to transfer hurt, so we have to make up some serious ground when it comes to getting some quality transfers. I believe we will.

It's easy to look at teams making NCAA Tournament runs and wish we had that. It's also tempting to see those teams and believe that it would be easy to see that at Clemson. But for every fast turnaround there are many examples of young hot shot coaches who took over a major college basketball team and fell flat on their faces. There are also examples of programs that were patient in allowing a coach to build his program, and have some continuity, and it paid off with a successful and stable program. My hope is that Brad can and will be the latter here.

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: I’m happy to talk about basketball with anyone who wants to.


Posted: Mar 29, 2021, 9:44 AM
 

Recruiter is needed!

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Re: I’m happy to talk about basketball with anyone who wants to.

[3]
Posted: Mar 29, 2021, 9:44 AM
 

Welcome back judge!

Didn't miss anything important.

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I’m shocked! Shocked, I tell you!***

[1]
Posted: Mar 29, 2021, 7:12 PM
 



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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: I’m happy to talk about basketball with anyone who wants to.


Posted: Mar 29, 2021, 9:50 AM
 

glad you’re ok


and, no thx - there is no need to discuss basketball. it’s been all on display for 11 yrs.

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I for one am glad you are stopping. You are one of the most ignorant posters ever. You obviously think very highly of your own opinion, unlike the rest of us - RockHillTiger


Re: I’m happy to talk about basketball with anyone who wants to.

[1]
Posted: Mar 29, 2021, 9:52 AM
 

When I have watched other teams play during this tournament, what has stuck out to me that we don't have are big guards or forwards who can manufacture their own shots. Each team has a go to player or two that is about 6'6 and can drive, shoot and dish. The closest thing we had to that was Trapp and he couldn't shoot and also didn't drive as much as he was capable of. We are in need of some players badly who we can count on to score no matter the situation. Simms was obviously our best scorer but when he was being shut off by the defense then we looked frustrated and not very confident. If Oral Roberts, Gonzaga, and Loyola Maramount can get some players and develop them, then I know Clemson can. I hope Brad can get these types of players in and develop them but if he can't then we need to look somewhere else. 11 years is quite a long time.

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Re: I’m happy to talk about basketball with anyone who wants to.


Posted: Mar 29, 2021, 2:09 PM
 

I wouldn't include Gonzaga with Loyola and Oral Roberts. Gonzaga is an elite team.

Look at Abmas from Oral Roberts. Everyone missed on him. His only offers were Air Force, Navy, and Army.

I do agree that the biggest issue Clemson had this year was not having a guy being able to get his on a regular basis. Newman was kind of that guy last year but not to the extent needed.

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It's hard for me to call for a coaches head after he takes

[2]
Posted: Mar 29, 2021, 9:57 AM
 

us to the tournament. Granted I've become a much more casual BB fan...but finishing in the upper half of the ACC (regardless of how down the league was) and making the dance is ok with me. I want Clemson to be #1 in any and everything...but realize that won't be the case.

Anyways, appreciate the insight and your never wavering support for Brad and the BB team.

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Re: I’m happy to talk about basketball with anyone who wants to.


Posted: Mar 29, 2021, 10:12 AM
 

Judge do we have a chance at any top offensive minded transfers since we lost 3 players early We do well on defense but a few more points each game it seems could give us a few more wins

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Re: I’m happy to talk about basketball with anyone who wants to.

[1]
Posted: Mar 29, 2021, 10:22 AM
 

If Brad keeps us in the upper half of the ACC and gets us in the NCCA tournament he is a keeper I’m not asking for a championship from him even though at age 73 I would like to see one However after a 12 th season if we can’t maintain those goals we need to give someone else a chance I saw some great coaching and very aggressive play in the tournament It seems our guys are not very aggressive most of time I feel they feed off out coach in this regard I remember the media saying in the Danny Ford days that his players played like him Was not a bad thing Hope we can recruit some good transfers and with what we have have a great next season

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Re: I’m happy to talk about basketball with anyone who wants to.


Posted: Mar 29, 2021, 2:39 PM
 

Ok, Mr Know it all shows up when he wants to, why did we lose a recruit signee, also?

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Re: I’m happy to talk about basketball with anyone who wants to.


Posted: Mar 29, 2021, 9:30 PM
 

I’m pretty sure he’s married. Just sayin.

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Re: I’m happy to talk about basketball with anyone who wants to.


Posted: Mar 30, 2021, 11:34 AM
 

I read somewhere else that he didn't like the way Dawes and Honor were used at the same time, which would cut into his potential minutes.

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Re: I’m happy to talk about basketball with anyone who wants to.

[1]
Posted: Mar 30, 2021, 10:26 AM
 

OK Judge ..... this is more technical, but I have not seen a good answer as of yet, but I have watched a lot of games during March Madness. It looks like all of the better teams never concede a rebound when on offense. When we play, almost as soon as a shot goes up, our guys head down court. It seems we only get an offensive rebound if one of our players is already playing on the inside or it is a long rebound from a three point attempt. I know we want to get back down court to prevent an easy basket, but I would like to see more offensive rebounds.

PS: Our rank is 252 ...... not good


Message was edited by: TigerLinks®


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It's sort of like trying to block a punt versus


Posted: Mar 30, 2021, 1:40 PM
 

getting back to setup for the return.

If we send more players to offensive rebound, we make ourselves more vulnerable on defense. If we don't get back on defense (because we were trying to crash the offensive glass), we are much more susceptible to giving up points in transition.

Making sure we get back on defense is one reason why we are such a good defensive team. If we can prevent a transition bucket, and force the opponent to have to work harder for a tougher shot, we are going to be more successful.

This also means that the game is slowed down a bit, and we don't have as many opportunities to score more. So for people who want to see us score more, we could play faster, but it will also probably mean that we give up more points.

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Disagree***

[2]
Posted: Mar 30, 2021, 4:18 PM
 



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Oh boy

[1]
Posted: Mar 30, 2021, 4:19 PM
 

.

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If pigs are so smart, why do 66% of them use weak and inferior materials during construction?


Re: I’m happy to talk about basketball with anyone who wants to.

[1]
Posted: Mar 30, 2021, 9:25 PM
 

As Bill Parcells says:”You are what you record says you are.” We are at best a middle of the pack ACC school that hasn’t challenged for the conf championship in 11 years. Judge, do you really believe that after 11 years, Brownell will ever get us above middle of the pack and take a conf championship? If you can’t do it in 11 years why would you expect it to happen in the next few years. Or are you satisfied with middle of the pack? How many years before you’re ready to make a change at the top? 15? 20?Many schools winning in the NCAA tournament have less in facilities and money than Clemson. 11 years is long enough for mediocrity. Enough excuses.

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Great, since we are who our record says we are


Posted: Mar 30, 2021, 11:42 PM
 

then you’ll readily acknowledge that we are one of the top 5 teams in the ACC (we finished in the top third of the ACC) and also one of the most consistent teams in the country (we didn’t lose a single game during the regular season to a quad 2, 3, or 4 team).

Given that, why aren’t more people here happy about this season? Why is there such negativity? Oh that’s right, because they let their own subjective emotions and opinions cloud their judgment.

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: Great, since we are who our record says we are

[1]
Posted: Mar 31, 2021, 5:39 AM
 

Yes, we were top 3rd of the worst Power 5 conference based on RPI, NET, and now NCAA tournament results. In fact the ACC has the 15th worst tourney performance - better only than single bid conferences and the Mountain West per win percentage. Why do you let your subjective emotions and opinions cloud your judgement.

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It's too bad that you go to such great lengths to discredit


Posted: Mar 31, 2021, 5:04 PM
 

the team you claim to be a fan of.

Do you have children? Because you seem like the kind of father whose kid has worked really hard on a school project and gets a B, and is very proud of it because he normally gets Cs, only to have you tell him that he should've gotten an A and that plenty of kids got a B and that you wish he weren't even your son.

2021 white level member link

Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: It's too bad that you go to such great lengths to discredit


Posted: Mar 31, 2021, 6:40 PM
 

I posted very simple facts. They took no great effort or time to look up. And they are facts - not opinions. Of course you dodge them and try to make it personal with an inane comment about my hypothetical children which has no relevance to my support of a college team. Hard to imagine how unhealthy your family life is if you think there is some parallel to be found.

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I just don’t understand why you can’t celebrate the team’s accomplishments.


Posted: Mar 31, 2021, 10:23 PM
 

That’s what fans do.

Trying to minimize the accomplishments of our basketball program doesn’t make sense, especially given the fact that we haven’t had many accomplishments in 100+ years of existence.

2021 white level member link

Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: I just don’t understand why you can’t celebrate the team’s accomplishments.

[1]
Posted: Mar 31, 2021, 10:34 PM
 

First, calling you out on the factual inaccuracies of your aggrandizement has no relation to how I do or don’t celebrate any aspect of Clemson sports. Secondly, I do not believe finishing 5th in the conference this season is a significant accomplishment and only someone with a vested interest (familial or monetary) would hammer this board so relentlessly with your insipid garbage. Now, we clearly are not going to fire or extend Brownell and will let things fester for another year. The already poor incoming class (despite your constant insistence that recruiting had made a turn) is falling apart. Next season will be a disaster and when Brownell inevitably moves on we will be as bad or worse as we were when Purnell took over. That’s what I see on the horizon while you cheerlead for a millionaire’s continued employment. That’s not what fans should do.

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Top 5 in the ACC was nothing to brag about this year.***


Posted: Mar 31, 2021, 5:49 AM
 



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I don't understand people like you.


Posted: Mar 31, 2021, 4:50 PM
 

If you're a fan, you support the team and their accomplishments.

Rather than be proud of the good regular season we had, you poke holes in it and discredit it. Why?!?

The ACC certainly lacked the usual 1-2 dominant top 10 teams, but the ACC still had some very good teams and a lot of depth as well. Finishing in the top 5 was no easy feat, especially since we dealt with not one but two COVID pauses as well as some easy games that were canceled.

We also played some good non-conference games and won them all, so our entire body of work this year was impressive to everyone but the most negative fans.

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: Great, since we are who our record says we are


Posted: Mar 31, 2021, 12:19 PM
 

You mean like folks using their subjective opinion to say that slightly above middle of the pack in an awful year for the ACC and 2 one and dones equal a great season? Bottom line, Judge, your subjective support of Brownell means you’re happy with middle of the pack and an occasional NCAA bid for Clemson over an 11 year period. You have no higher expectation for Clemson basketball. Just excuses for your guy.

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Maybe you're forgetting where we came from.


Posted: Mar 31, 2021, 5:01 PM
 

In basketball, we came from nothing. We are historically the worst basketball program in the ACC. We typically invest less in basketball, because we view it as an afterthought if not a hindrance to football success. Our all-time record shows it, too.

So for us to finish in the middle of the pack, in a basketball conference with basketball powerhouse programs like Duke, North Carolina, Louisville, Syracuse, etc., is way way better than our history or our current support of basketball would imply.

Have you asked yourself why some of those top teams were down this year? If so, I hope you have still come to the conclusion that those teams had plenty of talent (more than we did) and hall of fame coaches - and we still beat them. Maybe they had challenging years because the ACC is much deeper than you give it credit for. Regardless, our team beat their team, and that is worth celebrating.

And no, I don't think finishing middle of the pack should be our ultimate goal. But you better believe that I can appreciate how hard it's been to get to this point. Climbing out of the ACC cellar to consistently be at least middle of the pack, with some seasons near the top of the league, is an accomplishment at Clemson whether you recognize it as such or not.

The discussion should focus on Clemson, and what we are doing well and what we need to do better. We do really well being competitive with teams with more talent from programs with more history and a greater investment in basketball. That is good coaching and player development by Brownell and his staff. But to make the next step, we need to recruit better. Coaching can only take 3-4 star players so far when they are competing against 4-5 star players who are also receiving good coaching. I have a lot of thoughts on how we can recruit better, but that's another topic for another day. I suspect that I've already spent way too much time responding to your post, because you seem to already have your mind made up about our basketball program as well as about me. That's too bad.

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: Maybe you're forgetting where we came from.


Posted: Mar 31, 2021, 10:17 PM
 

Just answer 1 question. How long is enough time to give Brownell without ever challenging for a conf championship? It’s 11 and counting.

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I feel like the goal posts have moved a lot.


Posted: Mar 31, 2021, 10:27 PM
 

Before this season, the criticism was that we don’t make the NCAA Tournament enough and need to move up from being a middle of the pack ACC team.

We did that this year. People should acknowledge that success.

But now the complaint is that we aren’t challenging for the conference championship?

2021 white level member link

Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: I feel like the goal posts have moved a lot.


Posted: Apr 1, 2021, 6:49 AM
 

Once again, you keep talking this season only as if was perfect, but I’m asking about an 11 year record of mediocrity. And yes, over an 11 year period we should at least be seriously in the hunt for a conf championship at least once. We have progressed to middle of the pack. Big deal. You talk as if Clemson was nothing before Brownell. But Barnes, Purnell, and Ellis all had us closer to the top than Brad ever has.

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