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If I told you before the season started
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If I told you before the season started

emoji_events [5]
Feb 3, 2021, 4:39 PM

that we would win two out of the three games against Louisville, Duke, and North Carolina, I bet you would've considered that a success.

Winning 2 of 3 against those three basketball powerhouses is a great accomplishment for Clemson, especially given the fact that we were coming off of a stretch where we did not play well. It represents a refocusing by our team, and hopefully a return to our earlier season form.

Go Tigers!

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: If I told you before the season started

[4]
Feb 3, 2021, 4:48 PM

Historically, all of them are powerhouses, as you say. However, none of them are currently ranked. So, maybe it's not all that surprising that the Tigers have won two out of three. I honestly thought we should have beaten Duke.

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All three are more talented than we are based on

[2]
Feb 3, 2021, 5:00 PM

recruiting rankings. We aren't supposed to beat any of them, so from that perspective I consider winning 2 of 3 an accomplishment.

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Dang, Judge, you almost sound like a poster child for the

[2]
Feb 3, 2021, 6:29 PM

annual Georgia Recruiting National Championship, only in the basketaball. :)

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We average an 8th place recruiting ranking over the past...


Feb 3, 2021, 11:39 PM

4-5 years. Should we be happy with finishing 6th or 7th in a 14 team ACC?

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Finishing higher than our talent level predicts means


Feb 4, 2021, 12:11 AM

that our coaches and players are doing a great job.

To improve from a middle of the pack team to an upper tier ACC team, we need to recruit better. That’s why facilities and having the right staff are so import. Our top 20 class in 2020 was great to see. We need to continue that momentum while also getting transfers when needed to fill holes.

There are 15 teams in the ACC, not 14.

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


There are 15 teams in the ACC, not 14.


Feb 4, 2021, 12:30 AM

This mistake on my part further proves my point...

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Expecting Clemson to win at Duke is never too realistic***

[1]
Feb 3, 2021, 6:37 PM



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OK

[1]
Feb 3, 2021, 4:51 PM



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Brad Brownell: all-time losingest coach in Clemson men's basketball history, and only coach to beat North Carolina in Chapel Hill.


Re: If I told you before the season started

emoji_events [5]
Feb 3, 2021, 4:58 PM

Thanks Paula I didn’t think of it that way , Go Tigers !! and tell your husband we said congrats

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Re: If I told you before the season started


Feb 3, 2021, 5:00 PM

All wins over those teams are appreciated. That being said, if we judge (no pun intended) ourselves vs teams that have dropped like a rock, instead of against the national rankings, then we could be fooling ourselves.

Beating UNCright now (while wonderful) is not what it was once was. I saw a stat the other day that said UNC and Duke Have not played each other with both unranked - since 1960.

The ACC is clearly not what it once was. I loved it back then. A .500 ACC team used to be almost guaranteed to get into the dance. Now, not even assured of the NIT.

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One mark of success is beating teams you aren't supposed

[2]
Feb 3, 2021, 5:05 PM

to beat.

Clemson is not supposed to beat Louisville, Duke, or UNC in basketball. Not based on current talent level or program history.

Last year, we beat all three. That was also an accomplishment, especially since the Louisville and Duke wins were both when they were top 6, and the UNC win was at Chapel Hill. Not surprisingly, most TaterNet basketball board posters were unable to be happy about those wins either because they were too busy complaining about how inconsistent we are or how they don't like Brownell's persona on the sideline.

I started this thread for some perspective for all of us, especially since we were not playing good basketball prior to these last 3 games. If you want to turn it into bashing the ACC and/or diminishing our accomplishments, that's your prerogative. I'd prefer to enjoy the wins though. They aren't easy to come by in the ACC.

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


TaterNet?

[1]
Feb 3, 2021, 7:24 PM

Careful. Your feathers are showing.

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Peacock feathers


Feb 3, 2021, 8:21 PM

no doubt

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Why do dogs always race to the door when the doorbell rings? It's almost never for them.


No feathers, I just think TaterNet is a hilarious term.


Feb 3, 2021, 10:52 PM

You can’t admit that it’s funny?

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Obviously not?***


Feb 3, 2021, 11:46 PM



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Re: One mark of success is beating teams you aren't supposed

[1]
Feb 3, 2021, 8:46 PM

Well, I don't have to tell anyone on here that judge ain't no coot. I get his point. I wouldn't have believed it and would gladly have taken it without playing the games. We consider a series win in baseball good, why not bball... As long as it's not a tourney.

Going on a losing streak like we did, even to good teams that they are, doesn't bother me nearly as much as how we lost those games. Not competitive at all. Win the next game.

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Re: If I told you before the season started

[1]
Feb 3, 2021, 11:58 PM

By the two most reputable bracketologists, we have five wins against teams projected to be in (at the moment) the NCAA Tournament field. Five wins against the field through 16 games. Maryland would be a sixth win in that category with a little help (they're currently the first team out in Lunardi's projected field).

By Lunardi's bracket, we have wins over a 2-seed (Alabama), a 5-seed (Florida State), a 6-seed (Purdue), an 8-seed (Louisville) and a 9-seed (North Carolina), with two of them being away from home.

Those are good wins, and only two of them (Florida State and Louisville) were ranked when we beat them. Give me the resume wins all day.

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If you had told us that before the season

[3]
Feb 3, 2021, 5:01 PM

nobody would believe you.

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For the sake of humanity, and all that is good, please stay out of the Metaverse.


Nobody believes me anyway.***

[2]
Feb 3, 2021, 5:06 PM



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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: Nobody believes me anyway.***

[2]
Feb 3, 2021, 8:07 PM

exactly.

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For the sake of humanity, and all that is good, please stay out of the Metaverse.


If you had told me before the season started that we would

[2]
Feb 3, 2021, 5:05 PM

lose to UVA, at GT, at FSU, and at Duke, I wouldn't have been too alarmed, but getting blown out and embarrassed by all, and to seemingly give up in each game was a huge red flag to me.

Hopefully, the refocus continues.

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Thankfully, those games still just count as losses

[4]
Feb 3, 2021, 5:07 PM

with no penalty for losing by a large margin.

There are no asterisks for those games, except in fans' minds.

We seem to be recovering well recently. Our upcoming schedule is favorable, should we remain focused.

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: Thankfully, those games still just count as losses

[1]
Feb 4, 2021, 12:09 AM

TECHNICALLY, there is a slight penalty in the NET metric for margin of victory/defeat. Thankfully, the metric views any defeat by 10 or more the same. So all of those games might as well be 10-point losses.

This thread shows quite the bit of irony too, though...because had you, instead, said something about coming into the season and knowing we would beat all of Mississippi State, Purdue, Alabama and Maryland, the responses would have been either (1) do it in the ACC, or it doesn't matter or (2) unless it's football, beating Alabama is pointless.

It's sad when supporters seek shortcomings and failures as actively as they seek successes.

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Bama is a great win....


Feb 4, 2021, 12:12 AM

Our best in fact. Maybe that will grab us a 7-8 seed.

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...that we would have a few crazy collapses,

[2]
Feb 3, 2021, 5:15 PM

I would have believed you. Still, it's always great to beat Lewavul and those Academic Fraud guys.

If Brownell could eliminate the few ### losses and long scoring droughts in games, he'd be the awesome. Even with those, he's shown he can coach when he has some players. And recently, he's gotten better players. We looked really good before that covid break, and I'm not sure many programs could deal with that successfully.

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As I posted earlier today in another thread

[1]
Feb 3, 2021, 6:30 PM

our 10 ACC games thus far have been very top heavy. Seven of those have been against teams currently in the top 6 of the ACC.

We don’t have any losses to bad teams. So what you call ### losses aren’t ### at all, unless you expect us to beat every team we play.

Our remaining 7 ACC games are all against teams currently below us in the standings. If we play our game, we will win most of those.

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


It was a brutal stretch for a couple of weeks there, but


Feb 4, 2021, 9:25 AM

We have still only lost one game at home and it was to the best team in the ACC. Our worst loss is at Georgia Tech who is .500 in the ACC, so if you can ignore the margin of victory, which is something I really feel like the committee does, then those losses aren’t that bad.

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Re: If I told you before the season started


Feb 3, 2021, 5:36 PM

If I told you before the season started it was a one game at a time season, and not to get your hopes up, you would label me a coot.
It still is a one game at a time season.
So fire away.

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Re: If I told you before the season started

[1]
Feb 3, 2021, 5:46 PM

leftie said:

If I told you before the season started it was a one game at a time season, and not to get your hopes up, you would label me a coot.
It still is a one game at a time season.
So fire away.


So you want to be called a coot. Okay, you can be a coot.

Hv a nice day.

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It’s fine to take it one game at a time


Feb 3, 2021, 6:33 PM

but if you aren’t going to get your hopes up, you shouldn’t allow your hopes to get dashed either.

It seems that many of the “realists” here who don’t allow themselves to get too excited after a good win or two are the same people who are quick to get upset and be negative Nancies after a loss.

Fans calling for a consistent product on the court are often unable to be consistent in their own behavior.

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


If you told me before the season started we’d be 5-5 in our first 10 ACC games...

[1]
Feb 3, 2021, 5:48 PM

I’d yawn and say “man, that look into the future has me fired up for a long nap.”

~JKB

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Well, 5-5 is much better than our historical

[1]
Feb 3, 2021, 6:36 PM

average against the ACC.

Plus, that 5-5 includes games against Duke, UNC, UVA, and Louisville, as well as Florida State twice. We have only played three games so far against teams ranked below us.

Our ACC record will improve these next 7 games.

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


5-5 against a bad ACC? Woooo! We are pretty much Champions


Feb 3, 2021, 11:54 PM

ACC Conference RPI?

Right between the American Athletic Conference and the West Coast Conference.

http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_conf_Men.html


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Re: 5-5 against a bad ACC? Woooo! We are pretty much Champions


Feb 4, 2021, 12:10 AM

Show me where RPI matters nowadays. I'll wait.

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OK...Show me what matters that proves...


Feb 4, 2021, 12:32 AM

The ACC is a great conference and what place they fall in the NCAA. I'll wait.

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Re: OK...Show me what matters that proves...


Feb 4, 2021, 1:58 AM

By the standard most hold on this board, I'd say the NCAA Tournament matters.

The ACC is currently tied for the third most teams (six) projected in the NCAA Tournament field by Joe Lunardi. Only the Big Ten (9) and Big 12 (7) have more teams projected into the field. If you include the first eight teams out of the field, the ACC moves into a tie with the Big 12 with seven teams apiece.

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Re: OK...Show me what matters that proves...


Feb 4, 2021, 2:02 AM

To add to that, we're 3-3 against the other five teams projected in the field from our conference.

Virginia = 0-1
Florida State = 1-1
Virginia Tech = 0-1
Louisville = 1-0
North Carolina = 1-0

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What will it take for you to be pleased with this season?


Feb 4, 2021, 12:15 AM

Be specific.

What record over these last 7 regular season games?

What postseason tournament/performance?

You seem to complain a lot, so I’m curious what would make you happy.

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Mark my words...6-1 and a Sweet 16.


Feb 4, 2021, 12:30 AM

Now if you agree that's reasonable then he doesn't, I expect you to say Brad underperformed with a 9-1 start and the talent we have on this team. If he accomplishes that, I'll admit he needs more time. He's had just under a 3rd of my life to make us "good" so I think that's reasonable. BTW I was in San Diego when we last made the Sweet 16. I love basketball. I just want us to be good. Not above average. Good/Great. If Bama can be #10 why can't we?

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OR...........


Feb 3, 2021, 6:21 PM

those 2 of the 3 aren't really that good..... ??

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..:: ru4god2 ::..


So you would rather diminish our wins by criticizing the opponent


Feb 3, 2021, 6:38 PM

than congratulating our team and appreciating the win?

Are you always this negative in life?

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


My negativity < your sarcastic smugness. Just sayin ;)***


Feb 4, 2021, 1:13 AM



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..:: ru4god2 ::..


The more flabbergasting thing is that neither of Duke or

[1]
Feb 3, 2021, 6:37 PM

the Tar Holes being ranked at the same time, first time since Dwight Eisenhower was President that this happened. That was 1956-1960, folks. In other words, a whole lifetime ago for some peoples.

Putting it another way, it was four years BEFORE The Beatles hit big in America.

Three years BEFORE JFK was assassinated in Dallas.

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Talk about picking your stats! We are 5-5 in conference,

[1]
Feb 3, 2021, 7:28 PM

which has us in 7th place out of 15 teams. Teetering just above the midpoint (3 teams below us at 4-4 right now). Probably about where most expected.

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We’re about to get to the easy part of the schedule


Feb 3, 2021, 7:31 PM

Could easily win out,

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Hope so!

[1]
Feb 3, 2021, 7:43 PM

:)

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I'd put money on that not happening.***


Feb 3, 2021, 11:55 PM



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I don’t understand what picking stats is supposed to mean.


Feb 4, 2021, 12:18 AM

I discussed our overall record and our conference record. I think it’s important to note the schedule we have played thus far as well as who we have left to play.

Did you have a specific issue with what I posted?

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: If I told you before the season started

[1]
Feb 3, 2021, 7:44 PM

Honesty you can throw any numbers out there you want, everyone knows you’re going to post excuses when we lose badly, and tell everyone they were wrong when we win a game.

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What excuses have I posted for our losses this year?


Feb 3, 2021, 10:57 PM

Please, show us these excuses I posted after any of our 5 losses this year.

You won’t be able to, because I didn’t make excuses for our losses.

You, however, seem like the type to make excuses for our wins. “UNC isn’t as good this year.” “We are still too inconsistent.” Am I right?

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


If we don't make the NCAA tournament and


Feb 3, 2021, 9:01 PM

win a game or two, then it's time to bring in some new blood. Agreed?

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Re: If I told you before the season started


Feb 3, 2021, 10:06 PM

We would make it to the dance, then I would be very very happy

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Duke is 7-6 and none of those teams are even ranked.


Feb 3, 2021, 11:29 PM

Am I happy with our team having a winning record? Sure. But we aren't even receiving votes in the top 25. Not even on the cusp.

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