Tiger Board Logo

Donor's Den General Leaderboards TNET coins™ POTD Hall of Fame Map FAQ
GIVE AN AWARD
Use your TNET coins™ to grant this post a special award!

W
50
Big Brain
90
Love it!
100
Cheers
100
Helpful
100
Made Me Smile
100
Great Idea!
150
Mind Blown
150
Caring
200
Flammable
200
Hear ye, hear ye
200
Bravo
250
Nom Nom Nom
250
Take My Coins
500
Ooo, Shiny!
700
Treasured Post!
1000

YOUR BALANCE
Alliance getting “clowned” on ESPNU XM!!
storage This topic has been archived - replies are not allowed.
Archives - Tiger Boards Archive
add New Topic
Replies: 67
| visibility 1

Alliance getting “clowned” on ESPNU XM!!


Aug 25, 2021, 2:42 PM

Is this thing a laughing stock or sour grapes from SEC/ESPN empire?

2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Alliance getting “clowned” on ESPNU XM!!


Aug 25, 2021, 2:44 PM

Sour grapes.... There is power in numbers and we have the high ground! #GoTeamAlliance

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Alliance getting “clowned” on ESPNU XM!!


Aug 25, 2021, 2:56 PM

Star Wars analogy...

https://youtu.be/U8wLBOlCKPU

2024 white level member flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

"If a pig had a better personality, he would cease to be a filthy animal."


Sour Grapes. Trust me. As a member of the media I can tell u


Aug 25, 2021, 4:28 PM [ in reply to Re: Alliance getting “clowned” on ESPNU XM!! ]

... ESPN is butthurt. This gives the SEC a backseat to ANY major decision on the college football front. As long as the "alliance" conferences vote together, they will outweigh the single vote of the SEC, every. single. time. And that infuriates the SEC and their biggest revenue partner, ESPN.

badge-donor-15yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

..:: ru4god2 ::..


This the TRUE. Any1 can see right thru this


Aug 25, 2021, 2:49 PM

...there were no agreements signed.

As soon as disney threatens to pull their BIG contract, the BIG will trade alliances quicker than Stalin.

2024 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Geville Tiger on Clemson football , "Dabo's only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


How can they pull a contract?


Aug 25, 2021, 2:51 PM

They can threaten to not bid on future contracts, but i don't think they can do anything to get out of their current contract without paying major fees.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Yes.. which is why it is threat. Big s contact ends


Aug 25, 2021, 3:10 PM

In 2023 ...so negotiations wil start next year.

2024 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Geville Tiger on Clemson football , "Dabo's only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


That's why I think it benefits THEM, not US


Aug 25, 2021, 3:44 PM

The B1G benefits from the Alliance because it will HELP them with an even better TV deal.

We're stuck with the bad ACC Network deal, and the alliance can't help our schedules for over a decade.

The B1G may come out the big winners of the Alliance, but I just don't see how it helps us much at all other than our fears of what the SEC MIGHT have done in the future.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

The ACC will still have games on ESPN, ABC, and


Aug 25, 2021, 7:07 PM

lesser games on the ACCN. Nothing in the BIG should scare Clemson. The only talented teams in the BIG are Ohio St., Penn State, and Michigan (although not right now). Ohio St. won their first game ever against Clemson last year. Overall, Clemson is 4-1 all time against Ohio St.

badge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up


If an agreement isn't signed by 23, Disney won't have


Aug 25, 2021, 3:16 PM [ in reply to This the TRUE. Any1 can see right thru this ]

to make a move.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

That too. All bark .no bite in this alliance.. just a


Aug 25, 2021, 3:26 PM

Big ole bluff that Disney can easily call.

2024 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Geville Tiger on Clemson football , "Dabo's only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: This the TRUE. Any1 can see right thru this


Aug 26, 2021, 8:02 AM [ in reply to This the TRUE. Any1 can see right thru this ]

Disney pulls B1G contract and fix picks it up. Heck maybe Disney will pull our contract fornthe same reason. One can dream right? Still finding it hard to fathom that Clemson people still watch and give credence to that shoddy network. I'll watch ACC games and that is it. But still people seem to care what they have to say. Yoy DO realize there are other sports news and networks right?

2024 orange level member flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Alliance getting “clowned” on ESPNU XM!!


Aug 25, 2021, 2:52 PM

Someone has finally crapped on the SUC/ESPN syndicate, and they don't like it.

2024 white level member flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

"If a pig had a better personality, he would cease to be a filthy animal."


ESPiN real Salty


Aug 25, 2021, 2:59 PM

All there affiliates in lock step.The mighty Sec is suddenly boxed in. All they got now is all Sec matchups . Anything else they gotta come hat in hand .. We hold the cards now.
Only all conference matchups are gonna be super boring .

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

they can still schedule 1-AA and the Big 12***


Aug 25, 2021, 3:28 PM



2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up


Re: Alliance getting “clowned” on ESPNU XM!!


Aug 25, 2021, 3:01 PM

laughing stock...no meat all fluff.

Also it's probably illegal, also known as collusion. Ford, Chevy and Toyota can't all just decide to compare prices to beat Mercedes.

It's obvious OU and TX saw an opportunity, and the SEC was smart enough to say yes. The ACC would have done the same thing if they had come to them first. And you are lying if you say they wouldn't have.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Alliance getting “clowned” on ESPNU XM!!


Aug 25, 2021, 3:06 PM

"Nah... calling it your job don't make it right, boss."

2024 white level member flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

"If a pig had a better personality, he would cease to be a filthy animal."


Calling it yo job, Ole hoss, show don't make it right.***


Aug 25, 2021, 6:37 PM



badge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Calling it yo job, Ole hoss, show don't make it right.***


Aug 25, 2021, 7:25 PM

Cool Hand Luke quote.
Your quote is John Cougar.
Both good quotes for this.

2024 white level member flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

"If a pig had a better personality, he would cease to be a filthy animal."


Like ESPN/SEC


Aug 25, 2021, 3:06 PM [ in reply to Re: Alliance getting “clowned” on ESPNU XM!! ]

Talking about collusion, obvious what SEC and ESPN did and Bowlsby called them out on it.

It is all coming into focus now. This whole thing about SEC expansion getting started with Texas reaching out is a joke. May be "technically" something like that got the ball rolling (or that is story they needed for cover) but this is pure an simple an ESPN power move in coordination with the SEC. A lot of circumstantial evidence all starting to fit together. ESPN wanted the CBS games, they got them. EPSN wants a 12 team playoff before 2026 when it would go out for bid and drive up the price and they are not guaranteed to get all the games. ESPN wanted out of BIG 12 contract, which could still happen.

I mean Bowlsby said flat out ESPN was meddling. I believe EPSN has serious exposure to legal action if it can be established they colluded with SEC, Texas and OK to tank the Big 12. ESPN took that into account (they have some of best lawyers money can buy) and figured any lawsuit by the Big 12 will cost them less they what they could make off exclusive playoff rights etc.

This whole Alliance thing is 95% to get some leverage with ESPN. The Alliance can be a pain for ESPN, especially with keeping them from getting the exclusive playoff rights. This is great leverage for the Big Ten and PAC 12 as they get ready to re-negotiate their TV deals. They can say ESPN you want that playoff before 2026 well offer us a good deal or our conference package. For the ACC obviously more tricky for contract not up until 2036. May be the Alliance holds and Big Ten and Pac 12 say we not budging on playoff unless you also re-negotiate ACC contract early. I am not holding my breathe on that but really the playoff leverage or ND joining ACC or really only hopes I see for ACC TV deal. It is all about crunching numbers and ESPN may find it more lucrative to just pay the ACC more if they can get the playoff and cover those costs and more.

Seems to me best strategy for SEC and and ESPN though would have been to wait until got playoff to 12 teams and that was likely going to happen before all of this. I think they jumped the gun and did not expect this reaction.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

ESPN would love out of the Longhorn Network too!***


Aug 25, 2021, 7:18 PM



flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

BIG12 Lawsuit says it's collusion between ESPN/SEC


Aug 25, 2021, 3:09 PM [ in reply to Re: Alliance getting “clowned” on ESPNU XM!! ]

Nice try puppy boy LOL

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Alliance getting “clowned” on ESPNU XM!!


Aug 25, 2021, 3:13 PM [ in reply to Re: Alliance getting “clowned” on ESPNU XM!! ]

IDK. Who is going to have the last laugh when they block the 12 game playoff and that diva Miss Texas realizes the best and easiest way to the beauty pageant(CFP) was beating out the uglier girls in the B12? Going to be much tougher to beat out Bama. Right Georgia?

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Alliance getting “clowned” on ESPNU XM!!


Aug 25, 2021, 3:32 PM

42-18-3....sure thing little brother.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Alliance getting “clowned” on ESPNU XM!!


Aug 25, 2021, 3:49 PM

Why don't we play the next 11 games in Clemson to even up the home and home series? I'm sure that would tighten the series up a little.

Georgia 35 Games Played
Clemson 24 Games Played
Neutral 5 Games Played (Augusta, GA)

2024 white level member flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

"If a pig had a better personality, he would cease to be a filthy animal."


Re: Alliance getting “clowned” on ESPNU XM!!


Aug 25, 2021, 3:57 PM [ in reply to Re: Alliance getting “clowned” on ESPNU XM!! ]

Also I can understand why you say little brother so much as a jawja fan everyone in your life is related to you in some way; most in multiple ways. Just cause your half brother, who also happens to be your cousin, lives in SC doesn’t mean we are related to you in any way.

2024 white level member flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Alliance getting “clowned” on ESPNU XM!!


Aug 25, 2021, 5:37 PM

just don't #### off his uncle daddy.

2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

"Anybody that says Coach Brownell is the best coach to come through Clemson is going to start an argument." -JP Hall


Re: Alliance getting “clowned” on ESPNU XM!!


Aug 25, 2021, 6:00 PM [ in reply to Re: Alliance getting “clowned” on ESPNU XM!! ]

How many nattys has your team won during your lifetime “big brother”?

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Alliance getting “clowned” on ESPNU XM!!


Aug 25, 2021, 6:11 PM [ in reply to Re: Alliance getting “clowned” on ESPNU XM!! ]

We beat your Daddy twice in the Natty. (That old 1980 trophy of yours must be lonely.)

2024 purple level member flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

"It is not part of a true culture to tame tigers any more than it is to make sheep ferocious."
--Henry David Thoreau


41 years is a LOOOOONG time***


Aug 25, 2021, 7:21 PM



flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

We are NOT related to you...Great wins back in the 30s-70s!***


Aug 25, 2021, 7:19 PM [ in reply to Re: Alliance getting “clowned” on ESPNU XM!! ]



flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

How’s that working for ya


Aug 25, 2021, 9:06 PM [ in reply to Re: Alliance getting “clowned” on ESPNU XM!! ]

80?


Message was edited by: BloodbeOrange®


2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

We won the 81 NC...They were 80...


Aug 25, 2021, 9:58 PM

3 NCs ago for us.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: We won the 81 NC...They were 80...


Aug 25, 2021, 10:01 PM

Thanks coot

2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Alliance getting “clowned” on ESPNU XM!!


Aug 25, 2021, 9:41 PM [ in reply to Re: Alliance getting “clowned” on ESPNU XM!! ]

Lol 40!years loser!!!!

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Alliance getting “clowned” on ESPNU XM!!


Aug 25, 2021, 10:07 PM [ in reply to Re: Alliance getting “clowned” on ESPNU XM!! ]

How many titles you got b itch?

badge-donor-10yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up


I wouldn’t shout “collusion” too loudly if I were ESPN or the SEC.***


Aug 25, 2021, 3:33 PM [ in reply to Re: Alliance getting “clowned” on ESPNU XM!! ]



flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

null


Re: Alliance getting “clowned” on ESPNU XM!!


Aug 25, 2021, 3:35 PM [ in reply to Re: Alliance getting “clowned” on ESPNU XM!! ]

C’mon Jawja fans shouldn’t try to use words with more than one syllable. Collusion doesn’t apply for many reasons not least of which are: these are not for profit organizations, congress has established precedent to exclude sports leagues from anti-trust laws, and they are not technically competing against one another for revenue at the detriment of the consumer.

Answer this; if it is collusion for 3 sports conferences to work together and set rules and standard why isn’t it collusion for 16 universities to work together to set rules and standards within the framework of a conference?

2024 white level member flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

you make that move, you better expect a move back


Aug 25, 2021, 3:52 PM [ in reply to Re: Alliance getting “clowned” on ESPNU XM!! ]

you can't have your cake and eat it too, with no consequences.

2024 white level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg2005_majors_champ.jpgbadge-ringofhonor-xtiger.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up


Re: Alliance getting “clowned” on ESPNU XM!!


Aug 25, 2021, 4:20 PM [ in reply to Re: Alliance getting “clowned” on ESPNU XM!! ]

Won’t be able to prove collusion. Won’t vote for a 12 team play off so mighty SEC will be stuck with all these good teams and can only get 1 team and sometimes two in a 4 team playoff. Won’t go to 8 or 12 unless ACC, B1G, and PAC see the terms will benefit them. Have fun being 4th or 5th best in the SEC puppy

military_donation.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Alliance getting “clowned” on ESPNU XM!!


Aug 25, 2021, 6:29 PM

ok- I don't understand- SEC had 14 teams-
Out of the 14 - Alabama- has and is always good. Georgia can recruit well- then fail with the best of them. LSU can go into the portal and build an awesome team for one year and then be crap for the next three.
The prove the point has does LSU go from 5-5 to just outside the 10?

They added two teams- one is always back- but always finishes in the middle of the pack (TEXAS) and the you have Oklahoma- they seem to do alright- but I am thinking them to be so so in the SEC.

So I see still only two times getting into the playoff
1> Alabama
2. either Georgia or Oklahoma- No matter what- the SEC will always be overrated by everybody.

military_donation.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Alliance getting “clowned” on ESPNU XM!!


Aug 25, 2021, 6:19 PM [ in reply to Re: Alliance getting “clowned” on ESPNU XM!! ]

Oh, I'm sure the lawyers have already been involved and the legalities have been covered. As long as these schools provide the TV content that ESPN's contracts call for, there is nothing they can do.

2024 purple level member flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

"It is not part of a true culture to tame tigers any more than it is to make sheep ferocious."
--Henry David Thoreau


It's the SEC that is all fluff, IF the alliance can stick


Aug 25, 2021, 6:19 PM [ in reply to Re: Alliance getting “clowned” on ESPNU XM!! ]

together! I hope the CFP expands to eight teams, but limits each conference to two teams! Then listen to the mighty SEC beech and moan when they have six teams ranked in the top 12, but only two can get in the CFP! OKie may soon wish they hadn't been so quick to jump!

2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

You’re right dogchit


Aug 25, 2021, 9:05 PM [ in reply to Re: Alliance getting “clowned” on ESPNU XM!! ]

It really should be a monopoly… smh you Moran.

2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Alliance getting “clowned” on ESPNU XM!!


Aug 25, 2021, 9:39 PM [ in reply to Re: Alliance getting “clowned” on ESPNU XM!! ]

Go away irrelevant puppy. Come back in 40 years to celebrate 80 years since you mattered!!!!

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Alliance getting “clowned” on ESPNU XM!!


Aug 26, 2021, 8:04 AM [ in reply to Re: Alliance getting “clowned” on ESPNU XM!! ]

I would certainly hope not. Now if you.had said UGa and Tennessee or Florida? Yes we would jump at the chance

2024 orange level member flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Alliance getting “clowned” on ESPNU XM!!


Aug 25, 2021, 3:02 PM

If anything is a "laughing stock" it's ESPNU ,or as I commonly refer to it, The University of eSECpn!

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

The MORE it upsets ESPN, the better this Alliance


Aug 25, 2021, 3:08 PM

really is. It's really that simple. As triggered as they are by this,leads one to believe this is better than any of thought it would be.

Of course,the BIG12's collusion lawsuit could be causing some of this.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

I think this is the PAC12's hail mary to stay relevant


Aug 25, 2021, 3:24 PM

Just stay put and expand or don't expand. You know how many mediocre schools reside inteh Pac 12, Big 10 and ACC? Ya'll act like we'll be playing Michigan, USC and OSU .. more likely we'll get stuck with a home and home against Illinois or washington state.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

So what!?! Good grief every game doesn’t have to be the battle of


Aug 25, 2021, 3:42 PM

the century.

This sport has gone to heck. There was nothing wrong with bowl games. There was nothing wrong with playing a couple small local schools every year. Every game doesn’t have to be Clemson vs Michigan or Ohio State or Southern Cal. It would be fun to play the occasional Illinois game or Cal or Colorado. Fun places to visit and explore.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

null


Exactly which is why i say just stay put. People want this


Aug 25, 2021, 5:12 PM

alliance b/c they think its going to produce some monumental matchups every week. But all i see in this alliance is handcuffs. I say just leave it alone like you are saying.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Those who can see the real advantage of this alliance, are


Aug 25, 2021, 6:23 PM

blind!! The real issue isn't scheduling, but voting power!!

2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: I think this is the PAC12's hail mary to stay relevant


Aug 25, 2021, 6:30 PM [ in reply to I think this is the PAC12's hail mary to stay relevant ]

I doubt that. There will be some attractive matchups that will be lucrative for all involved.

2024 purple level member flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

"It is not part of a true culture to tame tigers any more than it is to make sheep ferocious."
--Henry David Thoreau


I'm all for it. Anything to stick it to the SEC***


Aug 25, 2021, 3:48 PM



2024 white level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg2005_majors_champ.jpgbadge-ringofhonor-xtiger.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up


Of course ESPN is trying to "clown" the alliance...


Aug 25, 2021, 3:52 PM

The alliance clowned ESPN and the SEC yesterday. Stop being naive, the writing is on the wall here, the reign of terror is over.




2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpgringofhonor-francismarion.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

"I've played multiple sports and would bet any amount that I'm still more athletic than you at this present time...."


If the house of mouse doesn't like it


Aug 25, 2021, 4:25 PM

It must be a good thing. The Six Flags of college football.

2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Alliance getting “clowned” on ESPNU XM!!


Aug 25, 2021, 4:26 PM

I'd say it's way to early to tell how this will all shake out. The Alliance can't possibly be an immediate threat, but may be trouble for the SEC down the road.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Alliance getting “clowned” on ESPNU XM!!


Aug 25, 2021, 6:01 PM

ESPN doesn't like that the Alliance has challenged them.

2024 purple level member flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

"It is not part of a true culture to tame tigers any more than it is to make sheep ferocious."
--Henry David Thoreau


Re: Alliance getting “clowned” on ESPNU XM!!


Aug 25, 2021, 6:11 PM

More than sour grapes. This is as much a response to academic standing as much as it is establishing a power position for the new alliance. The EsecPN, which is also an alliance, can respond to the power play but have no ammo, let alone an understanding of how to respond to the academics. ESPN's response will be what they've always done. Dig or create something to try and bring down the power programs of this new alliance and bury anything from their sec partner. Will get ugly.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Alliance getting “clowned” on ESPNU XM!!


Aug 25, 2021, 6:16 PM

Sour grapes. One of the things the Alliance wants to do is make sure the college football playoff goes to market when it’s up for renegotiation. If they renegotiate the CFP media rights before then, ESPN gets the exclusive rights. ESPN‘s little feelings are hurt.


Message was edited by: rsgarrick®


military_donation.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Doesn't Disney now own FOXSports also ?


Aug 25, 2021, 6:32 PM

?

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Re: Doesn't Disney now own FOXSports also ?


Aug 25, 2021, 6:46 PM

The Fox Corporation (Murdoch) owns Fox Sports. Disney purchased 20th Century Fox. Sinclair owns the regional Fox Sports channels.

2024 purple level member flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

"It is not part of a true culture to tame tigers any more than it is to make sheep ferocious."
--Henry David Thoreau


Thanks, I knew they kept the News divsion,didn't know IF


Aug 25, 2021, 7:18 PM

they kept the Sports division. It would be effed up if Disney owned both FOX and ESPN

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Sour grapes from ESPN and the SEC. I haven't heard any


Aug 25, 2021, 6:59 PM

bashing of the Alliance Conferences. If ESPN kept everything the same, i.e. no SEC mega conference playoff, the Alliance would not have come together.

badge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up


Re: Alliance getting “clowned” on ESPNU XM!!


Aug 25, 2021, 7:11 PM

They got triggered by the creation of the Alliance….bless their hearts.

military_donation.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

SECSPN is pissed and so are the SEC schools and fans...


Aug 25, 2021, 7:15 PM

Why do you think they can't stop talking about it? Its the first thing I've heard out of every SEC fan's mouth for the last two weeks. They are boxed in and they know it.

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

The empire is concerned about their brand...$EC!***


Aug 25, 2021, 8:37 PM



2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

How do you keep Gamecocks out of your yard?
• Put up goal posts
What does a Gamecock grad call a Clemson Tiger grad in 2 years?
• Boss


Re: Alliance getting “clowned” on ESPNU XM!!


Aug 25, 2021, 9:03 PM

HBrown, I’m not one for loaded questions. You know that by now.

Just stop brother.

2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Replies: 67
| visibility 1
Archives - Tiger Boards Archive
add New Topic