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If a fetus, with a heart beat, isn't a life
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Replies: 21  

If a fetus, with a heart beat, isn't a life

[2]
May 9, 2022, 9:21 PM
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Then what is it? Is it an an appendage? Is it like a tumor? What is it?


Message was edited by: p6fuller®


Message was edited by: p6fuller®


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Re: If a fetus, with a heart beat, isn't a life

[3]
May 9, 2022, 10:06 PM
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Nobody is denying tht it is life, I believe the central argument is "when does the fetus have a right to life". Some argue conception, while others argue that when it is capable of living outside the mother. I would argue when it gets a job and starts paying taxes.

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Re: If a fetus, with a heart beat, isn't a life

[1]
May 9, 2022, 10:17 PM
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So, we can kill people that don't pay taxes? Not sure if that's extreme right wing or extreme left wing.

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Re: If a fetus, with a heart beat, isn't a life

[2]
May 9, 2022, 10:49 PM
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I have always contended that 18 years should be the cut off date for abortion, it would save the world a lot of misery.

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I appreciate the honesty.

[2]
May 9, 2022, 10:27 PM
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IMO, that's something that's missing from the pro-choice side, which I would respect more. Something akin to, "Yes, abortion in many cases stops a life, but the right of the mother to choose to do that are more valuable than the value we ascribe to the rights of the unborn at that stage."

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hey, jimmy.


Here’s what I don’t get.

emoji_events [6]
May 9, 2022, 10:39 PM
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The father created the life too. The father is on the hook for support the minute the child is born, regardless of the father’s opinion, so there’s obviously legally some responsibility tied to the father and recognition that they have a role in this child coming into existence. .

And yet, if the mother wishes to have an abortion, the father literally has zero legal say in the matter. I understand that the mother bears the burden of carrying the child through gestation for 9 months, clearly more burdensome than the father’s physical requirement s during that same time, but it’s always seemed odd to me that the call is 100% the mother’s to make.

I can’t think of any area in society where the male gets to legally tell the female that he is going to destroy/kill something that might be this precious to her and it’s just commonly accepted?

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That part has always bothered me.

[1]
May 9, 2022, 10:58 PM
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Not that I have any answer, or have any idea or suggestion to what degree the "rights" of the father come into play, or if you can even call it a right. It is nothing more than just something that has bothered me.

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hey, jimmy.


Yeah, it’s just a little odd to me that

[2]
May 9, 2022, 11:03 PM
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If an ex smashes a guy’s record collection he can take her to small claims court, but if she destroys the fetus that’s carrying 50% of his genetic code, it’s tough sheet.

I dunno man.

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I have been and continue to be a little sheepish about

[1]
May 9, 2022, 11:16 PM
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expressing my views on abortion because saying you don't have a clear answer and you are constantly thinking about it does not have much a place in a debate where reflexive, black/white positions are the norm, but that's my honest answer.

But I also don't think being genuine in your internal turmoil with the issue is a bad place. It at least suggests you are struggling with the poignant realities on each side. Though I will say in the last couple of weeks I think I have had more of a breakthrough for semblance of a definitive position, but even here I am not sure how comfortable I am with it, nor how these other issues fit in.

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hey, jimmy.


In a bit of irony, I have the least tolerance for those

[2]
May 9, 2022, 11:26 PM
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On either side of this debate who have no empathy for the positions of the other side.

You can have a fully formed opinion (in my opinion) and if you can’t at least say a good portion of the other side has their stance coming from a place of good intentions, I think you’re missing out on some degree of humanity.

There are surely pro-lifers who want to dominate women, and pro-choicers who don’t even care if they think it is a baby, but I believe them to be a minority in both instances.

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Re: In a bit of irony, I have the least tolerance for those


May 10, 2022, 12:46 AM
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I have the least tolerance for those that believe it is a human life and can still destroy it, out of convenience.

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We are saying the same thing.***


May 10, 2022, 7:25 AM
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I understand the position to a point, but...

[1]
May 10, 2022, 1:03 AM
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how would anything under 100% right given to the woman work? She carries 100% of the burden of the health risks of carrying the child right? Can you think of a way you could give a man any more say than they already have without infringing on the woman's right?

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Re: I understand the position to a point, but...


May 10, 2022, 7:10 AM
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That’s a great argument for a spouse NOT to receive pension or SS, for work that he/she did not perform.

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How exactly would that work? Sounds like veto power


May 10, 2022, 9:33 AM
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over the woman is the desired option. What else could it possibly be?

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Re: Woman vs Man as the only variable: Woman decides


May 10, 2022, 9:11 PM
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I think I agree with you Mr. Roberts, if I understand your position to be that in a 'vote' involving ONLY the in-process-mother and the already-did-jis-(I meant his)-job-father, then the woman's vote is 100% and the man's is 0%.

Objective reality govern the ruling.

Women and men do equal work during the initial part of the process; each contributes DNA to the 'oven.'

The actual fertilization takes place (shortly) AFTER the fikk is done. Since the fertilization took place entirely within the woman's body, then all of the work from fertilization to birth is with the woman. So the woman's oven does all the work until the bread is baked and comes out of the oven.

She/he who does the work (in this case by nature's laws) get to make the decision.

++++++++++++++++++++++++

With the matter of woman vs. unborn baby, we all know that's another (huge) controversy.

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Men also doesn't have the right to not be involved

[1]
May 10, 2022, 11:34 AM
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Lets say he doesn't want the child, but she does. He has no say whether she will have the child or not, nor if he will be financially attached to her and the child for the next 2 decades. And practically, she can decide he will also have no access to the child...but still be financially responsible.

This seems to be another area where women have more rights then men do...but yet I continually hear how they do not.

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That's a tricky issue.


May 11, 2022, 2:59 PM
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My way of trying to solve it is to ignore the fact that only women get pregnant and only men knock them up. So the rule is just: whoever gets pregnant has the right not to abort, and whoever got that person pregnant is on the hook financially if a baby is born.

Of course it's true that the one person is always going to be a woman and the other a man. But if the world were different and either person could get knocked up, the rule would still work, it would be fair, and it wouldn't be sexist.

This may seem like wordplay, but I think it actually shows that while nature may be unfair as to who ends up on which side of the rule, the rule itself is fair.

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I'm not as much pro abortion as I am against women dying


May 11, 2022, 2:38 PM
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while dead fetuses rot inside them.

To Obed's question, the fathers have a much lower risk of dying from a dead fetus rotting inside of them.

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Re: I'm not as much pro abortion as I am against women dying


May 11, 2022, 2:42 PM
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I'm not against self defense

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Maybe that's the angle the liberals are missing. Abortion


May 11, 2022, 2:52 PM
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by 9MM.

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Re: Maybe that's the angle the liberals are missing. Abortion


May 11, 2022, 3:25 PM
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While that would probably be less brutal, it would be most likely lethal for the judge

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Replies: 21  

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