I think you just want to argue.

Oculus Spirit [97677]

TigerPulse: 100%

Posts: 64821

Joined: 7/13/02

You're learning, albeit very slowly.

Jul 29, 2021, 5:44 PM

Really, there's no need to get mad. It is what it is. You're milking a bull with DHEC, really.

Have you ever wondered why, in the only country to set human beings down on the surface of the moon, have you ever wondered why we have never done proper, randomized, antibody testing in the United States? Somehow Singapore, Japan, Russia, Iran, India, South Africa, England, France, Italy, Germany, heck, even Brazil has managed to do them, and do them well. Why not us? I'll answer that for you. IF we did that in the US, we would find several occasions where we have reached herd immunity in the US. Right now, in England, a week or so ago, they released antibody testing showing 92% of people had antibodies. And right on cue, cases started dropping. So in the US are we at 20%, 80%, who knows. We don't do them because if we did, people would know the truth. This isn't a pandemic. It's influenza 2.0. We are technically on our third covid "pandemic" in the US. Waves happen when a new variant comes in, and becomes dominant, and people spread it. They shoot up, then miraculously fall just as fast, and we're clueless. Truth is, cases peak when we reach herd immunity, to THAT VARIANT. Then they drop, cases are low, antibodies wane, and a new variant comes along. Rinse and repeat. As such, there is no "end" to it. It's bad news. People don't want to know that. Random antibody testing would prove bad news. So it's just not done.

Why don't we track breakthrough vaccine cases? Same #### reason. You have to follow this from afar. Don't look to DHEC, or our governor, or the CDC for answers, you will get none. Look overseas and all of your answers can be found in other countries, who do the testing we don't do, and track the data we don't track. It's all there. Everything you want to know. It's the same virus. When you follow this overseas, when Israel releases vaccine escape data, hospitalization data, and the vaccination status of hospitalized patients, with the same variant going around, then you see your answer. The Pfizer vaccine is 40% effective in preventing symptomatic illness in people vaccinated in January. Same variant, same vaccine. You can math that out in the US. Efficacy decreases with time. When you do the research overseas, you know the data Israel released. You know vaccinated people not only get sick, and some hospitalized, but you also know a fully vaccinated person can be a super spreader. Knew this a month before the CDC said so, citing "mew" data. It was a month old from Israel. You know masks help and are not shocked when Fauci says wear them. You know the virus spreads as an aerosol in ambient air, MONTHS before the CDC admits it. You know delta can be spread outside, and you know it can be spread literally walking past someone in a store. You know the 6 foot rule and plexiglass is all BS. You know antibodies wane, before Pfizer says they do. You know the vaccines still help. You know younger people are getting sicker with delta. You know that when the CDC says you can remove your mask, at the same time Israel is saying put them back on, you can expect the same here. And it's not a surprise.

Forget DHEC. Source your data from other countries. It all eventually applies here, and you're not shocked. We don't record important data because it can (and usually does) present bad news. If data shows the vaccines become ineffective, we don't track breakthrough cases. Now the gap you can't circumvent is what happens IN the US. Because we've never had a variant in the US. They ALL come from elsewhere. Well, they don't. We seeded the delta variant in India with genes from the LA variant B.1.419. That was what ran through the US last winter, and that is what later became a part of delta. We didn't even sequence the virus for variants until England spilled the beans with B.117. We didn't because that would prove it mutates, which we initially said it didn't. And here comes Israel undermining our vaccines with data.

And expect data to change when it gets bad. DHEC stopped releasing ages of those who die. Probably because they trend younger. Can't have that. Ages of those hospitalized? I dunno. But wait, I do know from other places. They likely apply here as well. Schools? Well, they have them in England and Israel too, with the same virus. 15% of students are out or quarantined now with covid in England. Without masks, I'd expect some will close here in SC. It is what it is. Getting mad is really counterproductive. You won't change anything. I know it's hard to lose faith in your government. It's a tough pill to swallow. You're raised to think "We the people" and all that good stuff. You were raised to be proud of your leaders. To honor and respect them. But our leaders are no different than any other leaders in history. We've hidden pandemics in the past, and much more effectively I might add. Back when media and communication was newspapers and radios. You see a government still asserting that control, in the face of data, and information from afar that contradicts it. And that's understandably disheartening. But you just have to let it go.

I have not been surprised by much since this pandemic started. Well, not surprised about anything to do with covid. I have been surprised at our country though, mainly because I have not been surprised by covid. The only surprise about the virus I didn't see coming was when England said it mutates in November of last year. THAT was a surprise. Probably the only one. Luckily (the Chinese data was correct) a LOT of people get exposed, create antibodies, without ever having symptoms. We can reach herd immunity with as little as 200-300K cases a day. In a country of 300+ million, that's VERY GOOD NEWS. It could be a lot worse if fewer people were carriers without symptoms.

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They have the data. They've done the studies. They know the situation, probably better than any armchair internet immunologist. Right now I expect they know exactly how many people in Mississippi in ICU care in hospitals have the AY.3 variant, and what percentage of them are on vents versus regular delta variant patients. I bet they're studying it closely, as it IS A CONCERN. But just because they don't release the data you and I and most people know is important, doesn't mean they're not doing anything. They are.

The MO for the government through this whole thing is that they will tell us what we need to know, ONLY when and IF we need to know it. It is not a proactive response like you and I think would be best, it's purely reactive. BUT, we will know what we need to know IF we need to know it. FROM THEM. And yes, it ends up sending mixed messages. And honestly I think many at the CDC, and other doctors doing research, etc. in the US, are largely ignoring foreign data. Their withholding of information until it can't be withheld, makes them look bad, and that's why hiding data is generally a bad idea. It's why their messages are inconsistent, why they change their tune so much, and why no one trusts them.

At the end of the day, I'm sad to say, Chinese data has been more accurate, and consistently accurate, than the CDC. The key bit of information from the nuts who created this thing (and I trust their science more than the CDC), is this:

Everything is degrees. You have degrees of exposure. At a certain degree you reach a critical mass and get sick (that infectious dose depends on the variant and your health). The higher your exposure, the sicker you get. The sicker you get, the more antibodies you produce, and the longer your immunity lasts. Likewise, those who are exposed to lesser than an infectious dose, who do not get sick, still contribute greatly to herd immunity because even the mildest exposure can provide several months of antibodies. Likewise, there are degrees of shedding you do when sick with the virus. And that largely determines the level others around you are exposed to. A vaccinated person who feels fine can walk in a small room and talk for 5 minutes or so to an unvaccinated person. In those 5 minutes, with delta, they can expose that person, and anyone else in the room, to a lethal dose of virus. The chinese are big on quantifying "viral loads", and this is because they understand everything relies on degrees. Degree of viral load equates to the degree of viral shedding. The degree of viral shedding determines the degree of illness (if any) to those nearby. The viral load of delta is 1,000 times that of the original Wuhan variant. Where you could expose 20 people to the Wuhan virus and 3 get sick, same scenario and you expose those same 20 people to delta, and 18 get sick...... If a vaccinated person carries around that same DEGREE of virus, with or without symptoms, then the degree to which they infect others increases. And the degree of others exposed is higher. So the illness becomes more severe for them (unvaccinated especially).

In the US, that means a vaccinated and otherwise healthy person is walking around with 1,000 more virus. Fine. Good for them. But when they encounter an unvaccinated person, that unvaccinated person will also get MUCH more sick. It translates to younger people getting it who didn't in the past, and they're getting sicker than they did in the past. Older people are vaccinated.

It's all about degrees. That is key to understanding how this works. And those who like to deal in absolutes have difficulty understanding the concept. It is also KEY to understanding WHY MASKS HELP. We've all heard how masks don't help. The virus particles can go through them, so those who deal in absolutes deem them ineffective. But those who understand the science behind covid know, if the masks drops your exposure down from 2,000 virus particles to 1,400 particles, that can be the difference between not getting an infectious dose, or a mild illness, versus a critical and severe illness.

Likewise, this concept explains why children, especially those under 10-12yo, do not get sick as often with it or have a milder illness. It's really simple. The smaller the child, the less surface area/volume they have in their nose and lungs to infect. They breathe in less air, exhale less air, and have smaller lung surface areas to infect. It takes a higher and more concentrated exposure for them to get an infectious dose. It's why elementary schools have few cases in students, middle schools have more, and high school kids catch and spread it almost like adults.

China knows more about this virus than anyone. Not sure if it's because they created it, or dealt with it longer and hid it, but they released a LOT of science early on, that was a little too accurate, a little too thorough, and should have taken a LOT longer to compile. But to date, I have seen nothing to diminish any of their earlier science, or their concept of degrees of exposure. During the 2-3 months this went from Wuhan to the entire planet, they dumped tons of studies and data. They then shut up and shut down. But when they release a study, I pay attention. It's usually important.

Just to clarify

Isn't the best thing to

Re: Isn't the best thing to

Well, to be fair, I didn't say just any doctor.

Re: Well, to be fair, I didn't say just any doctor.

"I want good advice based off of peer-reviewed research"

Re: "I want good advice based off of peer-reviewed research"

Re: I think you just want to argue.

6 points to your 0 on your OP. Since you're someone who

No idea what you just said but guess what?

How many posts do you figure you have about *just *

Re: How many posts do you figure you have about *just *

Thats your best come back?

I think you just proved my point.

LOL.***

LOL***

LOL***

Re: LOL***

Keep checking the boxes.

I see you’re still caring, bitter guy***

lol***

LOL***

^^^^^^ CEO right here everyone

One of us spent their day on a message board yesterday...

DoN't yOu HaVe A CoMPaNy tO rUn?!***

lol, nailed it***

Well I mean as opposed to you

For someone who says he doesn't care, you care a lot.***

Re: For someone who says he doesn't care, you care a lot.***

I love the irony of insulting someone on reading

Wait, is that why the other thread got nuked?

Re: Wait, is that why the other thread got nuked?

“Large collective we?”

Thanks for caring!***

Those are very odd insults...

Glad to entertain you Mr. CEO

Whoa...you got me with that one...

At least you aren't having a mid life crisis***

Okay Mr. Busy CEO

I said I don't care if you get vaccinated or not

Re: I see you’re still caring, bitter guy***

Re: LOL***

wait, you are only 52?***

Yeah, do I seem older, or younger?

you are just right***

Re: I think you just want to argue.

You're learning, albeit very slowly.

Why not demand more of them though?

Ok, so here's the flip side of what I said earlier.

TigerBoard POTD

How many posts do you figure you have about just

Re: How many posts do you figure you have about just