I think the politicians often want the issue,

politicians think about that before choosing a position, I don't know, but it is interesting to think of a left side politician embracing that reasoning.

But you make a good point, one that would be fun to unpack if we had the time and beer to do it. The reasoning you put forth would favor an almost open border, if not actually open. Then one might say that that idea works on the basis you propose only if everyone coming in is a net payer (we can't provide health care for everyone in Guatemala). "Net payer" can include not only the taxes the immigrant pays, but the taxes on profits the employer earns.

To ensure that this is the case, immigration has to be controlled on some basis, whether simple numbers based on an estimate of how many can be employed, or a requirement that a job be guaranteed by an employer. Controlled immigration? Gasp.

Then there is the minimum wage discussion, and how a $15 - $20 minimum wage would impact the need for immigrant workers. (For those who deny that the runaway debt spending is causing inflation, consider the fact that one of the reasons the $15 minimum wage idea is not as controversial as it was 5 years ago is that it's not the huge jump it was then. Waffle House, of all places, will start you at $10 and get you to $15 pretty quickly.) The idea to provide a "livable wage" for the lowest possible wage limits the number of immigrants needed. [Edit: I see you addressed that above.]

Lots of back and forth on that, and a lot of ideological sacred cows will be slaughtered.

Message was edited by: CUintulsa®

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I happen to have very intimate knowledge on the matter

Apr 15, 2021, 12:59 PM

They come here to work, make money, and send as much as possible home to their families. We leverage their cheaper labor and harder work, and they leverage out dollar sending it home. VERY few have any plans to become citizens, or even stay in the US. Most plan to make and save enough to retire back in Mexico or wherever. Every single illegal worker I've encountered in my job, 100% literally, have been sending money back home to someone. Parents, wife, kids usually. Some come to the US and return frequently. Some end up stranded in the US as their parents die, or their wife runs off with another man in Mexico or something, but generally, this is the reason. I've never known a refugee, fleeing crime or whatever, except literally ONE. And that was Cuba.

And they can live on $100 a week here in the US in poverty no American can replicate, and send the other $800 they earn back home. I've seen 12 sharing a single hotel room, carpooling, and living on as little as possible here in the US to maximize what they can send home.

Even had a guy from Cuba once. He escaped to the US on a raft. Lived here, worked, and then his wife and son were still in Cuba. His son went on a school trip to Spain in high school. He left the group, hopped a plane to Miami from Spain, and then lived with his father, as a refugee. That's the only refugee I've known. Last month had a lady from Venezuela who was working cleaning hotel rooms in the US. She fled Venezuela, where her husband was a DOCTOR. She was making more cleaning hotel rooms in the US than her husband who stayed in Venezuela, who was a physician. She was sending money back to him.

I'm not making this up. I can give names, addresses, phone numbers, passports, have statements, these are real examples. Have many more. Can give Western Union receipts. Lady who cleans our house, she supports both her parents in Mexico. They're in bad health. Her husband left her, and she had three children. She plans to return to Mexico some day after saving some more. Probably in 10 years or maybe less.

The portrayal by Trump was WAY off. I agree it's a problem though, but not for the xenophobic reason he gives. But what's above is why they come here. And the reason they do is we pay them more than they could ever earn in Mexico/Guatemala/El Salvador/Honduras/etc. Heck, Argentina, Brazil, Uruguay, Colombia, Guyana, Bolivia, Peru.....talked to families of people here in all of those countries, from all of those countries. Kenya, India, UAE even. India. Their labor, and our acceptance of it, is better in the US than anywhere else on Earth. They provide us labor that's better, and cheaper, than we could ever afford ourselves. That's the benefit. The downside is they take low paying jobs that Americans SHOULD be doing. High school kids......those jobs are now done by older people, or illegals.

And this isn't based on 5, 10, 20, or even 50 examples. It's based on hundreds of examples over 2 decades. Every story is generally consistent. No one came to the US fleeing prosecution, war, or whatever. No one came to the US to become a citizen. No one comes with plans to stay forever and start a new life. There's BS from both sides here. The vast majority are not criminals, and even those who were criminals in Mexico, are hard workers here. And they're not refugees, other than refugees from poverty. They come here because without insulin their mother will die and they have no way to afford it, even working, in Honduras. Make it to the US, mom gets her insulin, and dad gets that surgery, and your kids get to attend the university.

But for the sleeze in Washington DC, they're a means to deflate labor costs in the US to keep inflation low so they can spend more debt buying votes. For business owners, they're increased profits. For everyone they're a reason you can buy a bigger house. They keep our food cheaper. This is why nothing has been done, or will be done. In Washington anyway. If they disappeared tomorrow our economy would be in BIG trouble.

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Serious question about politics

RH, explain where this post went off the rails.

Re: Serious question about politics

So they’re not getting $15 min wage?

No, there will be no $15 minimum wage, I promise

Hey now, stay on topic. You're talking economics. How many

Re: Serious question about politics

Re: Serious question about politics

Yep. That's exactly it.

I appreciate your answers............

I happen to have very intimate knowledge on the matter

Absolutely right.

Re: Absolutely right.

Re: Absolutely right.

when did they have 60 botes in the senate***

Re: when did they have 60 botes in the senate***

you know they didn't control squat with the filibuster in

Re: you know they didn't control squat with the filibuster

financial things thru reconcilliation***

Re: financial things thru reconcilliation***

The voter ID thing in GA is weird because they threw out

Re: Serious question about politics

Why do you think liars and worthless piles of crap should be

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