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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Why do people trust Bernie?
Feb 25, 2020, 8:42 AM
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I mean, he has been consistent on his message for years. But how can you get behind someone who praised communist Russia and Fidel Castro. He is saying that he is a "democratic socialist". Either he doesn't know what socialism is, or he is a straight up socialist.
I get that none of his squirrely ideas would pass through congress, but he is completely inauthentic. In a recent interview on 60 minutes with Anderson Cooper, he straight up admitted that he didn't know how much his plan would cost.
How in the #### can you vote for somebody that has been working on this "plan" for years, but can't even tell you how much it costs? What a joke.
https://twitter.com/60Minutes/status/1231734509835554820?s=20
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All-In [46801]
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Did you hear that interview you are referring to
Feb 25, 2020, 8:48 AM
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about Castro? Or did you hear other people talk about the speech?
And saying he doesn't know the cost yet is being honest. How are you suppose to know the price tag of a radical change in the healthcare industry of a country? He can give a range which he has done NUMEROUS TIMES and people say WELL YOU DON'T KNOW THAT!
What the #### do you trumpies want from the man?
Message was edited by: FBCoachSC®
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Oculus Spirit [93615]
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I want him to move to Cuba, Venezuela or China...
Feb 25, 2020, 8:56 AM
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and live under socialism for a couple decades then come back and tell us how good life is under that system of government.
Bernie is a socialist, America isn't good enough for him.
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All-In [46801]
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Is he calling for seizing the means of production
Feb 25, 2020, 8:59 AM
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like all of those countries listed did?
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Is he calling for seizing the means of production
Feb 25, 2020, 9:53 AM
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like all of those countries listed did?
Well that's what socialism is. So if he's not planning on doing that, then he's not a socialist.
Why would he claim to be a socialist, if he in fact wasn't a socialist?
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All-In [46801]
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That's kind of the whole point
Feb 25, 2020, 11:38 AM
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Democratic Socialism (Nordic Model etc) is not Cuba, NK, China etc.
Wouldn't expect you to know that though
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Oculus Spirit [79401]
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The dummies in Venezuela thought they were getting
Feb 25, 2020, 12:19 PM
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the cool, awesome democratic socialist version too. It hasn't worked out well for them.
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110%er [7026]
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I love the "Nordic Model" argument.
Feb 25, 2020, 2:27 PM
[ in reply to That's kind of the whole point ] |
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Because comparing a country of just over 5 million people to a country of 360 million in social "freebees" is always equitable.
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Oculus Spirit [93615]
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Hello, McFly...
Feb 25, 2020, 11:07 AM
[ in reply to Is he calling for seizing the means of production ] |
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yes. The GND will take the energy sector and will adversely affect most if not all manufacturing. His healthcare plan will exercise total control over public healthcare.
Energy, manufacturing and healthcare, what else do you trust a socialist with?
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Rock Defender [53]
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Did you hear that interview you are referring to
Feb 25, 2020, 8:58 AM
[ in reply to Did you hear that interview you are referring to ] |
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Yes, he said he didn't support the authoritarian regime, but it wasn't all bad. He had great literacy programs. I'm sorry, but if you are splitting hairs and saying a regime that was responsible for 11,000 wasn't "all bad", that's just not a good look.
What do I want from the man?
Well if he is trying to fundamentally change America as we know it, I want to know how much it will cost. Him saying I don't know is simply not good enough.
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All-In [46801]
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It's not splitting hairs. China is a communist country
Feb 25, 2020, 9:02 AM
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are you saying every single thing they do is bad? Is a national literacy program bad? The things you trumpies latch on to to go crazy about is amazing.
He has a the amount on his website. There are multiple peer reviewed studies showing a range of how much it will cost. The man can't pinpoint a direct quote because it doesn't work like that. But he has given the range time and time and time again.
You can not be this dense
Message was edited by: FBCoachSC®
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All-TigerNet [14452]
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Re: Did you hear that interview you are referring to
Feb 25, 2020, 9:14 AM
[ in reply to Re: Did you hear that interview you are referring to ] |
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Clemson mountaineers
CU Guru [1115]
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Re: Did you hear that interview you are referring to
Posted: Feb 25, 2020 8:58 AM
Reply
Yes, he said he didn't support the authoritarian regime, but it wasn't all bad. He had great literacy programs. I'm sorry, but if you are splitting hairs and saying a regime that was responsible for 11,000 wasn't "all bad", that's just not a good look.
What do I want from the man?
Well if he is trying to fundamentally change America as we know it, I want to know how much it will cost. Him saying I don't know is simply not good enough.
yep cuba has it so good that at least the people that are put in front of a firing squad can read. and it is so great that people build rafts and try to sail to the united states. and it is so great that the cubans still drive classic cars. nothing like the good old edsall to get around in.
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All-In [46801]
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Did he say Cuba had it good? Did he say Castro is a good guy
Feb 25, 2020, 9:16 AM
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or did he say installing a national literacy policy is a good thing?
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Oculus Spirit [80999]
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If Trump said Russia had a good intelligence community
Feb 25, 2020, 11:15 AM
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or an excellent military...well, you figure it out.
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110%er [7026]
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Heisman Winner [137807]
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You voted for Trump, who claimed he had a plan.
Feb 25, 2020, 9:04 AM
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Still waiting, almost 4 years later.
Anyway...lots to criticize Bernie about. Being inauthentic is probably dead last on the list.
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Oculus Spirit [93615]
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I believe Bernie, he really is a socialist.
Feb 25, 2020, 11:10 AM
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You don't or you would swap sides right now. Confess, you really don't believe Bernie when he says he is a socialist. He's been saying that for decades. Sticking 'democrat,' on the front of it is his only lie.
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Oculus Spirit [80999]
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All-Conference [404]
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Re: Why do people trust Bernie?
Feb 25, 2020, 9:37 AM
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I guess the same reason you trust a man who’s bankrupted multiple businesses and has been sued thousands of times for stiffing contractors and employees. Not to mention cheated on his wife and lies every time he opens his mouth.
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110%er [5508]
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Re: Why do people trust Bernie?
Feb 25, 2020, 11:44 AM
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They don’t
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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I know this is kind of long, but please bear with me
Feb 25, 2020, 12:19 PM
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This is not easy without a few visuals, but let me try to explain the economic meaning (the original meaning) of the term socialist.
Imagine a long spectrum along which we place countries based on how involved the government is in the economic decisions made. On one end of the spectrum would be pure capitalism with absolutely NO government involvement in economic decisions. At the other end of the spectrum would be pure communism with TOTAL government control of economic decisions. No country has ever been absolutely pure capitalist or pure commnunist.
Every country on the planet lies somewhere (comparatively speaking) along the spectrum based on how much the government gets involved in economic decisions. The closer a country is to the pure capitalism end of the spectrum the less government involvement in the economy. The closer a country is to the communist end of the spectrum, the more government involvement in the economy.
Somewhere in the middle (let's say the middle third of the spectrum) is socialism which is often called a mixed economy. There is some government regulation/control (more or less) of economic decisions. Each country gets to decide which parts of its economy they might want more governmental regulation/control.
The US started out somewhat close to pure capitalism, but not absolutely pure. Over the years of our history we have slowly moved toward the center. In our first hundred years there was a gradual move to have the government involve itself in some aspects of our economic decisions - police, fire, postal service, libraries, education, military, etc..
During the 20th Century, we began to see a need for more government involvement in some industries that capitalism was not handling well - anti-trust, retirement, some medical care, highways, clean air & water, etc. These new concerns for the public good slowly moved us towards the middle - socialism.
BTW, in the last 50 or so years this movement has been mirrored on both ends of the spectrum. Most countries are moving towards the middle - some combination of private enterprise and government regulation Communist and capitalistic economies both are recognizing that a balance of the two approaches provides the best outcomes for their people.
What Bernie's "socialism" is, in reality, is a question of whether some other aspects of our economy would work better for all of the people if the government got involved. Would healthcare insurance be better handled by the government. (Medicare is not the healthcare - it is the insurance to pay for it). Should higher education (which becomes more important with each passing year) be free just as K-12 education is now ? Would publicly supported pre-school work better than private ?
These are some of the questions that Bernie is supplying his answers to. You may agree or not, but let's not act out of misunderstanding or fear. We can talk about the pros and cons of these ideas. We are in the midst of free elections. Bernie is not pushing for the kind of authoritarian political regime that has accompanied some efforts in other countries. He is committed to the democratic process.
So for each new concern, let's talk about whether the private or the public sector would work best for us. Let's look at the data and consider the other guy's point of view. Let's assume that we are all patriotic Americans even when we disagree. And let's find a consensus among us with which we can move forward together.
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All-In [46801]
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For the first part. This is the exact same thing I teach.
Feb 25, 2020, 12:32 PM
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for the last part: You haven't been in here long have you?
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