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All-In [26968]
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I learned today that Jeb Bush is Catholic.
Sep 22, 2015, 11:00 AM
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Interdasting...
Am I allowed to say that he can no longer get my vote?
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All-In [42139]
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Don't hold that against him.
Sep 22, 2015, 11:14 AM
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He had one of those magical Bush religious conversions just in time for politics.
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All-In [26968]
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Is Catholicism advantageous in Florida?
Sep 22, 2015, 11:21 AM
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With all the Hispanics? Never thought about it.
It wouldn't be advantageous anywhere else in the South.
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All-TigerNet [13265]
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The idolotry is strong in Hispanyolie-land***
Sep 22, 2015, 11:23 AM
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Legend [15748]
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Cata doesn't care if it was an advantage. His jab has
Sep 22, 2015, 11:36 AM
[ in reply to Is Catholicism advantageous in Florida? ] |
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"truthiness", as Colbert would say.
I can find ONE other instance of the Governor of Florida being Catholic, and it was a one-term Governor in the 1980s.
Obviously there is only one person who has ever been Catholic and held the Presidency, and that was the early 1960s.
Ooooooooh, that Jeb. So calculating.
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All-In [42139]
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He clearly isn't as clever as his brother with the timing.***
Sep 22, 2015, 11:44 AM
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Legend [15748]
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Ah. Truthiness AND repetition. That's a powerful combo.***
Sep 22, 2015, 3:17 PM
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Heisman Winner [111526]
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Re: Is Catholicism advantageous in Florida?
Sep 22, 2015, 11:58 AM
[ in reply to Is Catholicism advantageous in Florida? ] |
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older Hispanics love him down here, everyone else is pretty much sick of hearing his name.
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All-In [47795]
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he's married to a beaner***
Sep 22, 2015, 11:52 AM
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: I learned today that Jeb Bush is Catholic.
Sep 22, 2015, 12:17 PM
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Did his policies suddenly change? If not, that's your call but it's kind of a weird reason to knock him off your list.
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All-In [26968]
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Would you vote for someone who believes
Sep 22, 2015, 1:30 PM
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that climate change is hokum? Or that man and dinosaurs lived at the same time?
If so, what's the difference?
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All-In [26968]
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*If not***
Sep 22, 2015, 1:30 PM
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Would you vote for someone who believes
Sep 22, 2015, 2:04 PM
[ in reply to Would you vote for someone who believes ] |
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I vote on policy. Anyone who opposes prevalent science would certainly be knocked down a peg in my book but if the rest of their policies/track-record were on par with what I was looking for I could look past it.
You didn't even know Jeb's religious affiliation apparently and now that he's not the correct flavor of christian you absolutely wouldn't vote for him?
The difference is that you didn't seem to judge him on policy. Not sure how catholic vs protestant affects his ability to be president.
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All-In [26968]
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Well, to me policy is only a portion...it's more
Sep 22, 2015, 2:08 PM
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about the person, than about policy, to me. They can spout all the nice-sounding policy they want, but if I don't feel I can trust them, then their "policy" means nothing.
That said, one requirement I have for someone I vote for for President is that they be a Christian, at least as best I can tell from my view on my couch. If he espouses Catholic doctrine, then, in my view, he is not a Christian. Same thing for Romney last cycle. Same goes for Trump this time around, by his own testimony.
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Legend [18310]
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That's bigotry, right there,
Sep 22, 2015, 3:19 PM
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I'd vote for a gay Catholic woman, married to a Mormon with an adopted Muslim son if she was the most qualified candidate.
Go all Tigers, don't be bigots.
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110%er [7013]
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^^^^^^^^This***
Sep 22, 2015, 3:23 PM
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All-In [26968]
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All-In [34105]
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All-In [31887]
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Well, to me policy is only a portion...it's more
Sep 22, 2015, 3:49 PM
[ in reply to Well, to me policy is only a portion...it's more ] |
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> about the person, than about policy, to m
To each his own. I don't care what the president personal beliefs are unless I think it would interfere with his ability to lead the country.
> That said, one requirement I have for someone I vote for for President is that they be a Christian, at least as best I can tell from my view on my couch.
That's fine.
> If he espouses Catholic doctrine, then, in my view, he is not a Christian. Same thing for Romney last cycle. Same goes for Trump this time around, by his own testimony.
Just a nitpick here, since when are Catholics not Christians? Catholicism existed before protestants split off and that was fairly recently in the Christian timeline (16th century). The brand of Christianity, as we see it today in the south, did not even exist until relatively recently. So how you equate catholics as "lesser" or even non-Christians I don't understand.
http://www.lightplanet.com/christianity/christian_timeline.html
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All-In [26968]
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Most of the world considers Catholics to be Christians.
Sep 22, 2015, 3:51 PM
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I personally do not, because their doctrine does not line up with Christ's doctrine, as told in the Bible.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Most of the world considers Catholics to be Christians.
Sep 22, 2015, 4:13 PM
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To clarify, all Catholics are Christians but not all Christians are Catholics, believe what you will.
> because their doctrine does not line up with Christ's doctrine, as told in the Bible
And i'm sure your particular interpretations doesn't line up with about 10 other denominations just in your local area.
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All-In [26968]
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Of course, you're right.***
Sep 22, 2015, 5:08 PM
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All-In [34105]
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Are you sure your other candidates are "real" Christians?***
Sep 22, 2015, 5:19 PM
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All-In [26968]
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Of course not. Can't be sure.
Sep 22, 2015, 5:21 PM
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Can only do the best I can with the evidence I'm given.
I'm not sure Trump isn't a Christian, or Bush, or Richard Dawkins. But the evidence, to me, points to know. Only that individual and God knows for sure.
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All-In [26968]
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LOL...*points to no***
Sep 22, 2015, 5:23 PM
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All-In [26968]
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Further, when I say "Christian"...
Sep 22, 2015, 3:57 PM
[ in reply to Re: Well, to me policy is only a portion...it's more ] |
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I mean someone who has been born again, not someone who fits in some religious category.
It's kind of like people saying they are Clemson Tigers. A lot of people claim that title, because they like Clemson or their sports teams. But very few actually are the Clemson Tiger...the person that actually suits up and becomes the mascot. My definition of "Christian" is more along the lines of the latter.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Further, when I say "Christian"...
Sep 22, 2015, 4:15 PM
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> I mean someone who has been born again, not someone who fits in some religious category.
These aren't mutually exclusive though, being born again (the way you are using it) is a relatively new interpretation that came about along the same time as the reformation.
You think that way because of your religious category. Had you been born a few centuries back you would have been taught and believed something totally different about the same bible.
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All-In [26968]
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Being born again came from the words of Christ, John 3.
Sep 22, 2015, 5:09 PM
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Doesn't get more original than that. Jesus said "Ye must be born again."
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Legend [18310]
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Re: Further, when I say "Christian"...
Sep 22, 2015, 4:43 PM
[ in reply to Further, when I say "Christian"... ] |
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You are schooled in a radical holy roller religion as preached by Jerry Falwell. I have two degrees from Clemson and I saw very few of your kind on campus. Your statement is definitely bigotry.
Go all Tigers, be lenient and kind.
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All-In [26968]
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OK.***
Sep 22, 2015, 5:08 PM
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All-In [26968]
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Would you vote for someone who is against abortion?
Sep 22, 2015, 5:11 PM
[ in reply to Re: Further, when I say "Christian"... ] |
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If not, then by your definition, you are bigoted toward people who are against abortion.
If not voting for someone with a different belief is bigotry, then I am a big-time bigot. Sorry about that.
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All-In [31887]
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REALLY? You are lecturing on religion?...
Sep 22, 2015, 5:38 PM
[ in reply to Re: Further, when I say "Christian"... ] |
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coming from someone who doesn't believe in Christ, who is also a elder in a church?
That's really just too much...
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Legend [18310]
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I don't lecture any more.
Sep 23, 2015, 11:05 AM
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I did make a good living lecturing and doing evolutionary research and earned a comfortable retirement while doing so. When any Jesus person comes on this forum and tries to incorporate Clemson University as evidence of his religion, I draw the line. I am proud of my association as a student, graduate student, staff member and member of the Alumni org. I am also a golden Tiger. Clemson admits qualified students from every nation, any color, any religion, creed, political affiliation or whatever. That includes Catholics, Muslims, Hindus, etc. If you don't believe that, contact them and get a statement. As far as religion is concerned, I follow their tenets of love, helping your neighbor, etc. I've lived on both sides of religion and seen the best both sides has to offer. I do not believe that when I die, some dude in a white robe is going to come to life and judge me as good or bad. If you do, you are crazier than I thought you were over these past 15 or so years. I'm leaving this subject now, it is foolish to continuing dead end discussions.
Go all Tigers, be true to yourself, it pays big dividends.
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All-In [34105]
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All-In [26968]
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I don't see, in this case, why it matters.
Sep 22, 2015, 5:25 PM
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To be "born from above" is being "born again," a second time. That's certainly Nicodemus' interpretation of it, as evidenced by his follow-up question.
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110%er [7013]
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All-In [42139]
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lol wut
Sep 22, 2015, 6:14 PM
[ in reply to Well, to me policy is only a portion...it's more ] |
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"If he espouses Catholic doctrine, then, in my view, he is not a Christian."
Dude... no. No. You don't get to redefine Christianity. You may not agree with their version of it, but by all senses of what makes a person Christian, yes, Catholics are.
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All-In [26968]
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You are free to define Christianity as you see fit.
Sep 22, 2015, 6:20 PM
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As am I, as are we all.
I am aware that Merriam Webster may define it differently from me...no big deal.
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All-In [26968]
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The Pope would say that I'm not a Christian.
Sep 22, 2015, 6:23 PM
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That's fine.
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All-In [34105]
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Why would the Pope say you're not a Christian?
Sep 23, 2015, 8:41 AM
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I think you're mistaken about that.
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All-In [26968]
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Well, maybe this Pope wouldn't, because
Sep 23, 2015, 9:05 AM
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he is a little off-the-wall. But I thought one distinctive Catholic doctrine is that the Catholic Church is the only true church.
From Wikipedia:
"The Catholic Church teaches that it is the one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church founded by Jesus. Concerning non-Catholics, the Catechism of the Catholic Church has this to say:
"'Outside the Church there is no salvation''
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All-In [34105]
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That is correct, but that's different from saying
Sep 23, 2015, 9:09 AM
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who counts as "Christian." Especially since many Catholics don't really take the doctrine that way. You'd be hard-pressed to find a Catholic who doesn't think that Baptists or Methodists or other Protestants are Christians.
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All-In [26968]
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Oh, I agree. That's why I said the Pope...
Sep 23, 2015, 9:10 AM
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not any random Catholic person.
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All-In [42139]
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Do Catholics believe...
Sep 22, 2015, 7:02 PM
[ in reply to You are free to define Christianity as you see fit. ] |
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That Jesus Christ is your Lord and Savior? Do they believe in the Holy Trinity?
Yes. They're Christian. It's not my definition. It's THE definition.
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All-In [26968]
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OK***
Sep 22, 2015, 7:45 PM
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Oculus Spirit [81049]
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All-In [26968]
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I love everyone...my favorite person of all time
Sep 23, 2015, 8:38 AM
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was a Jew. They are God's chosen people, and the source of God's greatest blessing to the world.
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All-In [34105]
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Today's a big day for them, you know.***
Sep 23, 2015, 8:42 AM
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All-In [26968]
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Oh, I see...the Day of Atonement.
Sep 23, 2015, 9:07 AM
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It's unfortunate so many are blind to the fact that the only Day of Atonement they will ever need already happened, when Christ died on Calvary.
But I hope they have a wonderful Yom Kippur, which is a beautiful event (though rendered unnecessary by Calvary).
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All-In [34105]
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LOL
Sep 23, 2015, 9:14 AM
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They won't have a "wonderful" Yom Kippur, I assure you.
I guess it's unfortunate that they're blind to your beliefs. On the other hand, they might be disappointed that you have put your faith in a false Messiah.
It's fun all around.
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All-TigerNet [13265]
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They be's blowin' the shofar.....
Sep 23, 2015, 9:17 AM
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Dem Jews sho know how to treat the help.
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All-In [26968]
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I wonder if any one will start rabbling about
Sep 22, 2015, 1:36 PM
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how I think that there should be a religious test for the office of the Presidency, or that Catholic people should be disqualified. That's what they, including other Republican candidates, did to Carson. Heh.
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CU Guru [1381]
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Re: I wonder if any one will start rabbling about
Sep 22, 2015, 6:06 PM
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I think most Americans couldn't care less if he is Christian or Catholic.
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All-In [26968]
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I agree with that.***
Sep 22, 2015, 6:21 PM
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CU Guru [1381]
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Re: I learned today that Jeb Bush is Catholic.
Sep 22, 2015, 6:21 PM
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I don't get it. can you explain? I am guessing since you started this thread you are open to talking about it...
so what about him being a Catholic is the problem? Are you worried that him not being born again, he wont run the country right? if so in what way?
I think we as a people are tribal by nature, and maybe its just that simple, you want someone that thinks what you think? Truely I don't understand
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All-In [26968]
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I believe Christians have the unique quality
Sep 22, 2015, 6:25 PM
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of being led by the Holy Spirit, which is obviously good. And just in general, a true Christian will act, or attempt to act, in accordance with Scripture, which is also obviously good.
I would rather have a Christian in any kind of leadership role...government, education, business. In the case of the President, I get to have a (slight) say in the matter via my vote.
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CU Guru [1381]
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Re: I believe Christians have the unique quality
Sep 22, 2015, 6:33 PM
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Thats fair, and trust that i'm not trying to change your mind here. I probably couldn't if I wanted to...
I'll just say that not all Christians act in the best (good) interest of others, in business, education, government and even the church . And many non Christians do. So i think a blanket statement is a little off.
I'm maybe the most unreligious person I know, but as far as the Catholic Church, there are few organizations that do more "good"...Catholic charities, hospitals, shelters, etc.
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