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The new Dem spin on voter ID
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The new Dem spin on voter ID


Jan 17, 2022, 11:57 AM



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Voter ID is fine...


Jan 17, 2022, 12:20 PM

But if the government is going to require it, it needs to provide IDs to all registered voters. If the right wants to prove it's not about suppression, then they'll get behind that concept.

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[Catahoula] used to be almost solely a PnR rascal, but now has adopted shidpoasting with a passion. -bengaline

You are the meme master. - RPMcMurphy®

Trump is not a phony. - RememberTheDanny


I don't know any on the right against that.


Jan 17, 2022, 12:23 PM

If the left wants to prove they're not disingenuous about actually caring about election security, they would be all for it, if not already proposing it (they kind of do usually kick off the "free stuff" bills).

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Re: I don't know any on the right against that.


Jan 17, 2022, 12:27 PM

The answer is almost always in the middle.

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[Catahoula] used to be almost solely a PnR rascal, but now has adopted shidpoasting with a passion. -bengaline

You are the meme master. - RPMcMurphy®

Trump is not a phony. - RememberTheDanny


Here's what I still don't get.


Jan 17, 2022, 12:33 PM

Why, in such an advanced age of technology, do we not have an election methodology that is almost instantly and reliably auditable, in a manner that would give 75% of the populous, regardless of political affiliation, confidence in the election's security.

We have solved much, much, much harder issues than this with ease. When it's left unsolved, Occam's razor (to me) says that it's because the powers that be (and I'm not talking party, think higher) don't want it to be.

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Re: Here's what I still don't get.


Jan 17, 2022, 12:50 PM



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Yup.***


Jan 17, 2022, 12:53 PM [ in reply to Here's what I still don't get. ]



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[Catahoula] used to be almost solely a PnR rascal, but now has adopted shidpoasting with a passion. -bengaline

You are the meme master. - RPMcMurphy®

Trump is not a phony. - RememberTheDanny


2020 election was one of the most secure elections ever


Jan 17, 2022, 4:15 PM [ in reply to Here's what I still don't get. ]

proven out by the many audits done that showed just how secure and accurate they were. The fact that so many within the GOP believe the election was stolen or those elections are not secure does not align with the overwhelming evidence we have showing how secure the system is. The question then becomes why make the system harder to vote in and give less access to voting? What is the advantage and who receives the advantage when you do that?

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Back to the original topic…….


Jan 17, 2022, 4:28 PM

It’s absolutely absurd that it took months to perform this audit. Our election process is like doing math with an abacus here in 2022. We should know the results of every precinct in the country within an hour or two of polls closing, and if there’s a challenge, the audit should be completed in 24-48 hours.

We are offering free plane rides, and it might have a perfect safety record, but some people are gonna be wary because it’s a biplane in the jet era.

To your point, you’re starting off with a premise I don’t agree with so I can’t really argue the point. I don’t think most states are making it “harder to vote”, so I can't debate the rationale for why they're doing something I don't believe they are.

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The complexity could come from the state run election


Jan 17, 2022, 5:22 PM

system we have where there are different systems in place and different states are run better than others. I don't think there's a way to fix that system on a national scale without centralizing it and I know conservatives would not like that one bit (Republicans might though).

As for my argument, let's try it a different way...

Was the 2020 election proven to be secure and safe? Do you believe there is rampant voting fraud? If so, can you prove it? If not, why do you think the push for laws described as "restrictive" is at the forefront in Republican states?

Additionally, I think any restrictions you impose on voting means there will be more friction introduced into the system which, in my opinion, would make it "harder" for people to vote. Now, that doesn't necessarily make that a bad thing, but how and where (as well as why) those frictions are introduced can make them, at the least, seem like a bad thing.

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Re: The complexity could come from the state run election


Jan 17, 2022, 5:57 PM

"Was the 2020 election proven to be secure and safe?" - I believe so

"Do you believe there is rampant voting fraud?" - No. Do I believe that the absence of rampant voting fraud is due to having airtight systems in place? Absolutely not.

"If not, why do you think the push for laws described as "restrictive" is at the forefront in Republican states?" - Personally, I think the bar gets lowered each and every election when it comes to what means justify what ends. With the system in place, could I see it being gamed (by either party, frankly) sooner or later in a way that could affect an outcome? Absolutely. I think these measures are preemptive attempts to avoid that situation.

Let's just look at Georgia, since it's getting a lot of press. So what's getting the heat:

1) Dropboxes only in staffed official offices now, cutting down the number of drop boxes. Don't see the issue. The boxes were a new introduction for the covid-era elections and could have been gotten rid of altogether, but they were kept in officially monitored places. If someone is distrustful enough not to drop their postage-prepaid absentee ballot in the mail, what's the difference in heading to a drop box vs showing up to vote on Election Day?

2) No blanket-mailing of absentee ballots. This also ends a one-time-only happening during the covid election year. They shouldn't go out en masse IMHO---they're harder to confirm, harder to track, and harder to audit---why would we send them to people without good reason? What's amazing to me is that they're still allowing any-reason-at-all absentee ballots, they just have to be requested-----seems pretty generous for a state that's "suppressing voting".

3) Change in absentee request time....used to be 6 months prior to election, now 11 weeks. Is this a big deal?

4) requiring DL or ID# for absentee ballot request - I have no issue with this, based on some polls I've seen, neither do the voters of GA, across both major parties (heavy preference for ID requirement). Georgia already has a provision for free ID's for voters who do not have any of the normally issued ones. https://sos.ga.gov/index.php/elections/georgia_voter_identification_requirements2



Additionally, early voting was expanded with the addition of additional weekend time.....not a very suppressive move.

In short, all of these things just seem common sense to me and I question the motives of those who are against them more than those who are for them because of the obviousness of most of them. It seems like a real exercise in creative logic to turn these into something sinister and I don't feel like most of the Dem base is buying what their leaders are trying to sell on this topic. If someone wants to vote, we've made it about as easy as possible short of them texting their votes in. Quite frankly it's a lot looser in GA still than I would prefer it.

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Re: The complexity could come from the state run election


Jan 17, 2022, 6:53 PM

What is the context for why Georgia is making the changes they are when they just audited and found their election—with the expanded Covid related initiatives—to be secure and safe? Why the desire to "fix" what seemed to not only not be broken but to work incredibly well?

I think ignoring the context in which these laws are being implemented defies taking a common-sense approach and ignoring the unnecessary introduction of friction into the voting system for no clearly defined reason seems illogical to me.

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Look at it this way, and again, let’s focus on


Jan 17, 2022, 7:22 PM

Georgia if you don’t mind, since it’s getting the most attention and I’m most familiar with it. What level of friction do you perceive based on the primary changes I discussed? Do you relay believe those changes will have a meaningful impact on voting for any demographic? Do you agree with Biden that these are Jim Crow 2.0?

I think it’s a stretch to consider any of these very much friction. There are routines that people in all demographics go though weekly, if not daily, that are tougher to do than voting in GA.

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Sure...


Jan 17, 2022, 8:05 PM

1.) "Dropboxes only in staffed official offices now, cutting down the number of drop boxes." It's one drop box for every 100,000 (no more than that) so places like Atlanta will have their number of drop boxes go from 100 to 20. However, this rule will expand them into rural areas for the first time which allows for the argument that they've "expanded" voting in the state. So urban voters will have new friction added while rural voters will have friction removed (I wonder which party each of those groups vote for?)

2.) "No blanket-mailing of absentee ballots." The state audited and found no major widespread issues and it resulted in higher voter turnout, so why the need to change? Again, this is adding friction to the process when it's avoidable.

3.)"Change in absentee request time." Adding more friction, puts an unnecessary burden on election boards to process the requests quicker.

4.) "requiring DL or ID# for absentee ballot request." Adding more friction and potential to throw away legit ballots that don't follow correct procedure (they have to fill many more things out than just providing their signature now).

5.) "Additionally, early voting was expanded with the addition of additional weekend time" This was to help rural counties that are short-staffed. Larger counties (read:urban) already had multiple weekend days for early voting. (See #1)

Add they included expanding the state legislature to have more power over elections and took a swipe at the Sec of State by removing that position as a voting member of the election board.

Here's the crux of my argument. You say "I think it's a stretch to consider any of these very much friction" but even in that wording, it's clear you agree there is some friction being added however slight you might think it. So, my question is, why inject friction at all when you just had a very clear test case of expanding voter access with incredible voter turnout while maintaining security?

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Actually the extra day expansion came from


Jan 17, 2022, 8:12 PM

Objections from black clergy saying that any weekend restrictions would hamper their pulpit to the polls push.

Also, If you are using a prepaid absentee ballot, there’s a free “dropbox” in front of every home in America. Put it in there and put the flag up.

I’ll ask again though. Do you believe these changes will truly change voting patterns? Is it Jim Crow 2.0?

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That was for sunday which was removed initially


Jan 17, 2022, 8:29 PM

then because of the fuss, they made it "optional." The expansion of one extra Saturday was already happening in urban parts of Georgia but now with the law it expands into rural counties.

If we're okay prepaying absentee ballots and allowing them to be mailed back let's stick with what occurred during the 2020 election and mail those ballots to all registered voters? Why remove that option since it's so easy and clearly effective/secure as the 2020 election showed)?

I think these changes increase the likely odds of changes in voting patterns, yes. It remains to be seen if they actually affect voting numbers. They are not Jim Crow 2.0.

I'll ask my question again now since I hope I answered yours.

So, my question is, why inject friction at all when you just had a very clear test case of expanding voter access with incredible voter turnout while maintaining security?

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Re: That was for sunday which was removed initially


Jan 17, 2022, 9:12 PM



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Re: That was for sunday which was removed initially


Jan 17, 2022, 11:33 PM [ in reply to That was for sunday which was removed initially ]

I see the most limited amount of friction imaginable, and it seems as if you're treating "friction" as mutually exclusive from "better" in all instances. I mean, we could just have a robocall to every person in the US and they could press 1 for this candidate and 2 for that candidate, and that would be even less friction, but inherently worse. Friction, or lack thereof, is not the litmus test for best. Southwest's method of lining everyone up at the gate, comparing numbers to see if you're in the right spot, etc has more friction than the boarding process of other airlines, but it's inherently more efficient.

You should have to request and absentee ballot, and provide minimal proof of ID when you do. And I get that it's a constitutional right. So is gun ownership but we don't send out concealed carry permit applications to everyone when they reach legal age in their state....you have to make some effort. We have a system that may not have been gamed, but can be gamed, and that should not be the case. It shouldn't take almost a year to audit an election and confirm it. There are better ways, all the way around.

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At least we agree this will add friction to voting


Jan 18, 2022, 12:14 AM

now, for the other part of my question which was why inject that friction at all when you just had the most successful voter turnout in the middle of a pandemic and it was proven secure? If adding these frictions makes it better, what are they fixing? What was broken?

Southwest's process removes many of the frictions that other airlines have in order to be more efficient. That helps my argument, not hinder.

As for the robocall, there are some possibly arguing for things like that to make it even easier, and if you can do that and still make things secure then I'd have no problem with that. I side on making voting easier not harder.

We can agree there are better ways to do voting and Georgia was one to show us that in 2020. Turning our backs on those better ways is avoidable and nonsensical if the result you're looking for is higher voter turnout and secure elections. If you're looking to game the system, then what they're doing now doesn't look as nonsensical.

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Seems we won’t agree on this, but again


Jan 18, 2022, 7:33 AM

Just because your house didn’t get broken into last night when you left the house unlocked doesn’t mean leaving the house unlocked is a best practice.

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More like...


Jan 18, 2022, 4:07 PM

The house was just proven to be secure and amazing but because of threats that don't seem to exist and because of who just purchased the house, let's blow it up.

But you're right that we won't agree on that.

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Re: I don't know any on the right against that.


Jan 17, 2022, 12:28 PM [ in reply to I don't know any on the right against that. ]

The left is against voter ID as long as you make voting access easier. If you require an ID cool. Then let me vote absentee for whatever reason I want. Let’s do drive thru voting. Let’s do voter drop boxes.

The left isn’t against secure elections because frankly the left will win them. The GOP is a declining party nationally. The left has no reason to commit fraud.

What they do want is to let people vote. That’s it.

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declining party?


Jan 17, 2022, 12:29 PM

Seems that the current outlandishness of the far left's positions is shifting that trend as we speak.

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Re: declining party?


Jan 17, 2022, 12:35 PM

When the GOP wins a popular election vote for president get back to me ….. 8m votes is a pretty big gap my friend

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It only seems implausible if you don't know history.


Jan 17, 2022, 12:36 PM

It was viewed as a declining party pre-Reagan as well. It's always cyclical.

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Re: It only seems implausible if you don't know history.


Jan 17, 2022, 12:45 PM

And it can be again...but it's gotta make inroads into communities of color, and America isn't getting whiter - precisely the opposite.

As long as the GOP continues to obsess over the fact that future generations are going to have more melanin in their skin - well, at least until genetic grafts become common and we see green, blue, and zebra-striped humans running around because, well, this dude identifies as zebra and this girl here as guacamole to reflect her Inner Earth Goddess - the GOP is going to have a massive declining numbers problem.

The demo shift over the last 20 years has been extreme. And guess what: who cares? It's freaking melanin...and like I said, elective dye jobs are coming, probably in the next decade. Can you imagine the 2030 census when all these new self-created ethnic groups start registering like a freaking crayola box exploded in the melting pot?

https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2021/08/improved-race-ethnicity-measures-reveal-united-states-population-much-more-multiracial.html


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that's just it....it IS making inroads.


Jan 17, 2022, 12:49 PM

Did you see the delta between Trump's black community numbers and almost all previous elections? That's a huge, statistically significant delta. Same trend with the Latino vote.

Additionally, I think the dems play for amnesty votes is going to blow up in their collective faces. This is a group that's generally very religious and very socially conservative, and are going to get turned off completely by the aforementioned direction of the party (ask all your Latino friends how fond they are of Latinx being shoved down their throats).

I think there are a lot of eyes being opened within minority communities and voting as a bloc will continue to dissipate.

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Re: that's just it....it IS making inroads.


Jan 17, 2022, 12:52 PM

The big problem, though, is the inherent hostility and xenophobia of the base.

If you don't understand that's a motherhuge problem for the GOP right now, I don't know what to tell you. And the idea that Trump is making "significant inroads" or "opening eyes"...well....

I don't see a whole lotta inroads here, Obed.



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Re: that's just it....it IS making inroads.


Jan 17, 2022, 12:54 PM

"inherent hostility and xenophobia of the base."

Yes, but that's balanced by the significant love of rape and torture by the Democrat base.


Hey, one good opinion-based projection presented as fact deserves another.

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Re: that's just it....it IS making inroads.


Jan 17, 2022, 1:00 PM

Hmm. Or maybe I'm just quoting someone.

"Sh!thole countries."

"Disease-carrying rapists."

"Send 'em all back to where they came from."

Shall I go on? Because I can. I've got 5+ years of material now.

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and that's before we get into Biden's statements with a big


Jan 17, 2022, 1:01 PM

(D) beside them.

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Re: and that's before we get into Biden's statements with a big


Jan 17, 2022, 1:12 PM

Whatabout, whatabout, whatabout.

Those statements Trump made, were made to the roaring approval of packed auditoriums filled with...well, you saw that picture, you know what they were filled with.

It isn't "opinion". Trump absolutely played the racism and xenophobia cards, and he dealt them from the bottom of the deck. And his partisans loved him for it. Denying it just makes me shake my head and wonder what universe you inhabit.

Again, my opinion is inclusive conservatism would roll rampant in the face of all this incoherent Dem wokeness right now. They're actually using the words "racial reparations" with a straight face and out in the open in California right now. But the terms "inclusive" and "conservatism" seem increasingly...mutually exclusive, at the moment.

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Re: and that's before we get into Biden's statements with a big


Jan 17, 2022, 1:18 PM



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Re: and that's before we get into Biden's statements with a big


Jan 17, 2022, 1:37 PM

There's a reason I don't even talk to you anymore. There's no point.

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Re: and that's before we get into Biden's statements with a big


Jan 17, 2022, 1:59 PM



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Re: and that's before we get into Biden's statements with a big


Jan 17, 2022, 2:26 PM

Okay. Feel free to ignore me back then. I literally do not read a thing you say anymore.

There's...no point.

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Re: and that's before we get into Biden's statements with a big


Jan 17, 2022, 2:28 PM



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LOL, "Whatabout" is a weak retort and you know it.


Jan 17, 2022, 1:33 PM [ in reply to Re: and that's before we get into Biden's statements with a big ]

You're ascribing a trait to a base based on a single leader, and saying it's the reason the party won't grow, and my (quite relevant, and non-whataboutish) counterpoint is that the opposition party's leader has similar, if not worse commentaries on minorities in his own history, seemingly negating your opinion of an entire party's base based on said quotes.

You're further weakening your own position when it's noted that these trends happened, two elections in a row, for the leader who you're claiming is the reason those trends wouldn't and couldn't happen. It requires absolutely incongruent and inconsistent logic to make the claims you are. You have this seriously over-exaggerated fascist bee in your bonnet, and it's really coloring all of your opinions on things political these days .

Like it or not, things are trending positively with most minority groups for the Republicans in the last couple elections. I'm genuinely curious to see in the next election if it was because of Trump or if it was a rejection of a lifetime of failed Dem promises.

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Re: LOL, "Whatabout" is a weak retort and you know it.


Jan 17, 2022, 1:55 PM

"A single leader"? That's incredibly disingenuous and you know it.

Trump is the GOP. He's systematically purging anyone who dares challenge him. There is no underlying platform. The GOP didn't even have a platform the last RNC.

The GOP is all about complete and utter obedience to Trump, purging anyone who dares disagree with him, and then running roughshod over the rights and freedoms of anybody Trump doesn't like while pouring kerosene on the freedom of the press, the rule of law, and basic dignity and decency.

Kind of hard to get past that. So please, tell me what the "Republican platform" is again, other than "unconditional support for whatever Donald Trump wants"? Which makes it kind of hard to get past that "single leader" you keep talking about. Because people who try to get past that "whatever Donald Trump wants" caveat are dropping like flies in the modern GOP.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2020/08/25/the-2020-republican-party-platform-letat-cest-moi/


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Umm, yes, the very single leader that you quoted


Jan 17, 2022, 1:59 PM

To paint an entire Republican base as racist and xenophobic.

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Re: Umm, yes, the very single leader that you quoted


Jan 17, 2022, 2:33 PM

The big problem is nobody will stand up to him or repudiate him within his own party.

So, yeah, when the party kisses his ring, they pretty much own his racism and xenophobia.

Remind me again who kisses Joe Biden's ring? I have yet to find a Joe Biden fan, much less a Joe Biden fanatic, and if he keeps Not Getting It Done like he's Not Gotten It Done to this point, he won't be the candidate in 2024. There is like, zero Cult of Personality around Joe Biden. You have to have a personality for that.

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Re: Umm, yes, the very single leader that you quoted


Jan 17, 2022, 2:42 PM



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I agree that dems are trying to force pubs to defend Trump


Jan 17, 2022, 1:49 PM [ in reply to Re: and that's before we get into Biden's statements with a big ]

and everything he did, but it's a trick and Pubs/cons can't fall for it. Dems have a very simple two part strategy: (1) Convince voters that all pubs are full blown Trumpers who blindly and enthusiastically support every crazy, vile thing Trump ever said, did, or thought, and (2) All pubs are racists who hate anybody who isn't exactly like them. Pubs need to be aware that there is an alarmingly large, growing segment of the population that is buying into this BS, and while pubs don't have much to worry about mid term, if they don't build a coherent, effective strategy to counter thhat BS, it will spell trouble down the road. Merely rallying the base, Trump style, won't cut it.

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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
- H. L. Mencken


Re: declining party?


Jan 17, 2022, 12:58 PM [ in reply to Re: declining party? ]

I think you underestimate the "I hate Trump" vote. The racial division caused by Democrats for political purposes is plainly seen at this point. The fact the Dems are no longer for the "working man" is plainly seen. Once educated, people from south of the border do not want to live in the Socialist country that is being pushed by the Dems.

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Re: declining party?


Jan 17, 2022, 1:06 PM

That's my whole point. The GOP doesn't need this loony-tunes Trump crap. Just...be sane. That's it. That's all they have to do. The Dem lunacy pretty much speaks for itself.

I disagree with virtually everything the Dem Party is pushing, but turning into a bunch of vile, loathesome troglodytes isn't the way to push it. The GOP got Foxitis in the worst way, needs to jettison Rupert and his vile crew of propagandists into space, fight the left-hand bias of the legit press with hard facts, hard numbers, and some freaking dignity, and go forth and persuade peope.

They can. They really can.

When your opposition is the likes of AOC, Maxine Waters, and Bernie Sanders, that shouldn't be hard. Unless you're busy being a bunch of tribal, Fascist lunatics who turn everyone else's stomach, and that's exactly what the GOP is doing right now.

It isn't okay. And it's costing the Pubs a chance to completely re-shape the discussion for the next 25+ years.

Trumpism is not the answer. It's actually the opposite of the right answer.

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Re: declining party?


Jan 17, 2022, 1:19 PM

If the GOP is dumb enough to run Trump again, then they will get it handed to them in the next Presidential race. People like me would most likely just not vote for the President, unless the Dems ran someone like a Manchin or Gabbard. But someone like Manchin or Gabbard has no chance of making it through the Dem primary. I'm not going to say fully never, but after the Kavanaugh nomination debacle, I will most likely never vote for another Dem for senate.

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Re: declining party?


Jan 17, 2022, 1:22 PM



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Re: declining party?


Jan 17, 2022, 12:36 PM [ in reply to declining party? ]

Sort of.

The one thing that will bring them back around again is Trump doing Trumpy things, with the likes of Matt Gaetz and Marjorie Taylor Greene and Lauren Boebert reminding everyone how truly vile they are.

All the 'Pubs have to do is pull away from Trump and his election lies and articulate a coherent conservative philosophy and stop acting like it kills them to have a bunch of Asian, Indian, and Latino voters - a lot of whom are inherently very conservative, heck, Muslims are very conservative - voting.

But the GOP isn't doing that...and won't. It seemingly has no mechanism for self-correction, and we've already seen vividly demonstrated the fact that the true center of the GOP now resides with Fox News.
And Rupert's always been vehemently against bringing brown people in, no matter what continent he's been on.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/04/03/magazine/rupert-murdoch-fox-news-trump.html


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Re: declining party?


Jan 17, 2022, 12:50 PM

Yep.

If the GOP could articulate anything close to something coherent they could turn it around. But instead keep fighting for these 1950s ideals which just isn’t America.

Especially with Asian and Latino cultures. My god those societies are pretty well aligned to conservative principles but the xenophobia of the right hinders the ability to capture it.

If the gop would renounce trump and his ilk, the dems would have something to be really scared about. But right now they make it too easy

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Re: declining party?


Jan 17, 2022, 1:08 PM

I've probably been around longer than you uk. I've heard it through out the years that one party or the other was headed for oblivion.

The next election is less than 10 months away. So if the GOP has a red wave which is likely at this point based on disenchantment with the party in control of the White House and Congress, how is it that the GOP would then be in decline.

I agree with Obed, politics is cyclical. Things change. White college educated voters were once reliably GOP voters and blue color folks Democrats. That has changed significantly. Hispanic voters, while still majority Democratic, are trending more conservative and looking more at the GOP.

I don't see either party going away. The shame of it to me is that there aren't other viable choices.

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Re: declining party?


Jan 17, 2022, 1:25 PM

The manner in which the GOP captured these Latino voters is extremely concerning. If you take a look, there were actually two main blocs that represented the vast majority of that "significant inroad", and it was the Miami community in Florida - composed of large numbers of Cubans and Venezuelan expats who have had massively bad experiences with Socialism - and a large group of, shall we say, less ethnic Mexican expats (who often identify as white) who were heavily represented along the Mexican border in Texas.

Those were the ones the GOP flipped.

The way both groups were gotten to was simple: massive and sinister disinformation. It was absolutely crazy, and it was deliberately orchestrated, and it made shocking inroads, particularly in Miami.

Those tactics are not sustainable...and it is not a healthy way to build a forward-looking party that is rooted in fact and rationality. Rabble-rousing is is inherently easier for leftists because they can just point to obvious wealth disparity; the GOP does not want to start going down this road.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/09/14/florida-latinos-disinformation-413923


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Your last line is certainly the most important change needed***


Jan 19, 2022, 1:22 AM [ in reply to Re: declining party? ]



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If pubs want to prove they care about "election security"...


Jan 17, 2022, 4:10 PM [ in reply to I don't know any on the right against that. ]

they first need to prove there is this drastic need for "election security" before trying so hard to make access to voting harder. Otherwise, it comes off as a transparent attempt at voter suppression.

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Re: If pubs want to prove they care about "election security"...


Jan 17, 2022, 4:18 PM



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Re: Voter ID is fine...


Jan 17, 2022, 12:58 PM [ in reply to Voter ID is fine... ]



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Great Idea!***


Jan 17, 2022, 2:38 PM [ in reply to Voter ID is fine... ]



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Re: Voter ID is fine...


Jan 17, 2022, 3:24 PM [ in reply to Voter ID is fine... ]

If you are against Voter ID, you have no credibility on any political topic. Glad we got that settled.

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I have no issue with government issuing IDs to vote.


Jan 17, 2022, 4:52 PM [ in reply to Voter ID is fine... ]

As long as they are free and readily available to everyone. The problem traditional liberals have with that is that it gives the government another tool to invade privacy.

I also have no problem with a citizen voting without an ID but it's hard to prove you're a citizen without proving you're a citizen. Who wants chips?

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Re: I have no issue with government issuing IDs to vote.


Jan 17, 2022, 5:04 PM



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Re: Voter ID is fine...


Jan 17, 2022, 6:09 PM [ in reply to Voter ID is fine... ]

Of course. And I’m pretty sure they do already. In South Carolina at least: SCDMV. It’s the same place where one might get an ID for other stuff like securing a lease or a loan, getting/applying for a job, heck, even applying for government funded social safety net services such as medicare/aid or EBT benefits. Why do folks think it’s so hard to obtain proper identification? I’m completely speculating here, but I’d guess it’s probably less than $50 to do so. Are you being facetious?

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What is your strawman?


Jan 17, 2022, 12:39 PM

It's not about the id, you already have to have an id to register, it's about the extra steps. If all you care about is having id, then agree that if someone has a valid id for the appropriate State/county/district then they can vote that day. No registration, no voter rolls, just show up and vote.

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Re: What is your strawman?


Jan 17, 2022, 12:46 PM



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Re: What is your strawman?


Jan 17, 2022, 12:49 PM

Other than the prospect of jail time if you get caught doing it?

Texas spent about a gazillion hours of cop time this past election looking for people who had done just that...and found nothing. Well, I think they did find a couple of GOP dudes who double-voted because they were convinced the Dems were doing it. But aside from that...nothing.

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Re: What is your strawman?


Jan 17, 2022, 1:04 PM



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Re: What is your strawman?


Jan 17, 2022, 3:27 PM

They can't answer the question, because there is no rational answer. There is no rational reason not to require an ID to vote.

Well I guess if you believe it is okay to have bogus elections, then you can rationalize no ID is okay.

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Re: What is your strawman?


Jan 17, 2022, 4:31 PM

I don't personally have the slightest problem with requiring ID. I actually feel you should have to prove you are who you say you are, that ID should be logged, and accounting should be done to ensure there's no dupes.

We claim the system works, I have no problem whatsoever with putting it to the test and seeing if it's so.

Similarly, though, I do believe if you're going to require ID, all states should be required to provide valid ID's. Because the demos do say people who don't own cars - and hence don't drive - overwhelmingly live in cities, and as such may not have a driver's license. And we know that urbanites are far more Democratic than in rural areas.

Which in my opinion is the real reason Republican lawmakers (who know all that perfectly well) want this requirement, but if they want to say their concern is "election security", fine, let's address the concern and put this election-fraud issue to bed.

Politics is the art of compromise, yes?

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Re: What is your strawman?


Jan 17, 2022, 1:34 PM [ in reply to Re: What is your strawman? ]

I just want every legal citizen to have the opportunity to vote one and only one time. Pretty simple.

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See how you can't say it.


Jan 17, 2022, 1:55 PM [ in reply to Re: What is your strawman? ]

It's cause you want the extra steps.

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Re: See how you can't say it.


Jan 17, 2022, 2:02 PM

It’s not complicated.

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Re: See how you can't say it.


Jan 17, 2022, 2:12 PM [ in reply to See how you can't say it. ]



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Re: See how you can't say it.


Jan 17, 2022, 2:15 PM

I completely agree.

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Why do you need the extra steps?***


Jan 17, 2022, 3:27 PM [ in reply to Re: See how you can't say it. ]



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Re: Why do you need the extra steps?***


Jan 17, 2022, 3:28 PM



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Link?


Jan 17, 2022, 3:41 PM

All I see is some vague answer about voting multiple times, but that wouldn't be an issue with automatic registration, just like how states already prevent people from mailing in a ballot and voting in person.

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Re: Why do you need the extra steps?***


Jan 17, 2022, 3:29 PM [ in reply to Why do you need the extra steps?*** ]

It's not extra!

What echo chamber told you that having and ID and showing it is an "extra" step.

It is the required step, period.

If you are against Voter ID, you are one of the reasons your party's slogan is lie-cheat-and-steal.

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Follow the thread


Jan 17, 2022, 3:37 PM

I'm not against showing an ID necessarily, I'm against making voting difficult.

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Re: Follow the thread


Jan 17, 2022, 3:46 PM



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SC requires you to register 30 days prior


Jan 17, 2022, 3:58 PM

that's the maximum allowed by law and dumb. You should be able to show up, prove you live in whatever municipality, and exercise your right to vote.

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Re: SC requires you to register 30 days prior


Jan 17, 2022, 4:03 PM

Well if the rule is to register 30 days prior then follow the simple rule. It’s not hard.

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Re: SC requires you to register 30 days prior


Jan 17, 2022, 4:06 PM [ in reply to SC requires you to register 30 days prior ]



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You're basically describing how everyone voted before the whole voter id craze.


Jan 17, 2022, 4:19 PM

SC was I think the first state to go with voter id around 1950 (huh, wonder why?) but before that you could just use a utility bill or whatever to prove residency.

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Re: You're basically describing how everyone voted before the whole voter id craze.


Jan 17, 2022, 4:35 PM



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Too bad we didn't have the internet in the 60's


Jan 17, 2022, 6:45 PM

"What is this equal rights act? You think they need a helping hand? We're showing them how much we respect them by telling them to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps."

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It would take a world class racist and sadist,


Jan 17, 2022, 7:15 PM

Given the chance at a do-over, to re-inflict the ills of LBJ’s Great Society on the Black American family unit.

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Re: The new Dem spin on voter ID


Jan 18, 2022, 4:34 PM

Really? You wasted a post with that gibberish?

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Re: The new Dem spin on voter ID


Jan 18, 2022, 4:46 PM



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Re: The new Dem spin on voter ID


Jan 20, 2022, 9:06 AM

You got 1 thumbs up, bud. It wasn't very insightful or groundbreaking.

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Yet now demo run cities are requiring a Vax PP & ID to


Jan 18, 2022, 4:40 PM

enter a restaurant, movie or sporting event.

Guess that'll keep those poors out of those venues so DeBlasio, Lightweight and Newsome wont get hassled.

Is "double standard" in the liberal vernacular?

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https://as1.ftcdn.net/v2/jpg/00/81/16/28/1000_F_81162810_8TlZDomtVuVGlyqWL2I4HA7Wlqw7cr5a.jpg


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