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I dislike NIL as much as anyone, but
Tiger Boards - Clemson Football
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Replies: 47  

I dislike NIL as much as anyone, but

emoji_events [9]
May 19, 2022, 11:52 AM
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the criticism of Texas A&M is unfair.

Based on what we know, Texas A&M hasn't done anything outside of the current rules for NIL. They haven't cheated. They haven't even done anything unethical.

Rather, they are operating within the (ridiculous) rules of NIL. They adapted very quickly to this new era of college football. Good for them!

People don't have to like what is happening to college football. I certainly don't. But getting mad at Jimbo Fisher or Texas A&M is misplaced anger. If you want to be mad, be mad at the courts who allowed NIL to happen and the NCAA who has completely mismanaged all of this.

Nick Saban's comments, while accurate on the surface, come across like a whiny coach who is used to getting his way and is now finding it more difficult. Saban should take Dabo's stance and criticize NIL without making it personal and calling out coaches and schools.

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: I dislike NIL as much as anyone, but

[2]
May 19, 2022, 11:58 AM
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I don't disagree. It's like many business strategies; they may not be pretty, may even feel a little cringey, but the bottom line is often what shareholders and investors care most about. CFB is no different. A&M wants a Title BADLY and will do just about anything to get one. The amount of gray areas or allowances with NIL allowed them to take 100% advantage of it, and frankly I'm ok with it. I don't love it, but it shows that they are A) Utilizing the rule book to their full advantage, which is always ok, and B) CLEARLY all in. Maybe the dynamic in the locker room becomes a problem, but it sure won't be from lack of trying EVERYTHING! Go Tigers!

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even though it may be legal to openly buy players now, you

[1]
May 19, 2022, 1:57 PM
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can’t get angry when someone accurately describes what you’re doing as “buying players.”

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jo

Re: I dislike NIL as much as anyone, but

[1]
May 19, 2022, 11:59 AM
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Finding it difficult by recruiting second best class? Go back to defending Brownlee at the kids table. Let the adults discuss these issues.

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Re: I dislike NIL as much as anyone, but

[3]
May 19, 2022, 12:01 PM
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Im pretty sure the ones at the kids table would be people who keep bringing up petty stuff about basketball that's irrelevant to the post.

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GO TIGERS


jo

Re: I dislike NIL as much as anyone, but

[1]
May 19, 2022, 12:04 PM
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Like your rebuttal to an irrelevant post? Good one????

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Saban isn't a fool, he sees what's coming.

[1]
May 19, 2022, 12:02 PM
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NIL didn't affect his 2022 class, but I bet he's seen it impact prospects for 2023 and beyond.

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


jo

Re: Saban isn't a fool, he sees what's coming.

[1]
May 19, 2022, 12:08 PM
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We’ll see. I highly doubt will have a negative effect on Alabama football.

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Really?


May 20, 2022, 8:36 AM
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If they don’t step to the front of NIL I guarantee their recruiting classes will suffer.

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jo

Re: Really?


May 20, 2022, 9:17 AM
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Point being Alabama has the paying players down to a science. Been doing it for decades.

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Re: I dislike NIL as much as anyone, but

[2]
May 19, 2022, 12:01 PM
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Agreed. NIL is out of control and needs proper regulation but as of this moment, the rules are the rules and Texas A&M is operating within them.

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GO TIGERS


NIL out of control?


May 19, 2022, 1:35 PM
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The only thing that can control it is market value.

Any attempt by the NCAA or individual colleges is going to be a born loser in the nearest federal court. Not to mention...any college they tried would essentially be killing off their football program.

Those pesky little SCOTUS decisions have consequences...

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Re: NIL out of control?

[1]
May 19, 2022, 2:06 PM
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The NCAA successfully enforces scholarship limits. It, being a member driven body whose institutions choose to participate, can likewise enforce program-wide NIL limits - if that school wants to participate in the CFP or NCAA tournaments.

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People are just jumping all over A&M because, let's face it,

[4]
May 19, 2022, 12:01 PM
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the "Sleaze" just oozes out of Bimbo Fisher. Nobody really wants to see him succeed, legal or otherwise.

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That, and people are jealous.

[3]
May 19, 2022, 12:08 PM
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It's easier to play the victim role and talk about all of the big money donors a school has. What's harder to do is recognize what Clemson could've done better.

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


what about based on what we don't know?

[2]
May 19, 2022, 12:01 PM
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pretty sure buying players is illegal with the current rules

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Cat on a tin roof, dogs in a pile,
Nothin' left to do but smile, smile, smile!!!!


I took Saban's comments about A&M "buying players"

[2]
May 19, 2022, 12:11 PM
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to mean that they used NIL money to recruit those guys to A&M, not that they literally handed them money for no reason.

I think it's dangerous to make assumptions that something illegal is going on there.

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


It is absolutely against the rules to use the NIL as a

[2]
May 19, 2022, 12:20 PM
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salary offered to recruits and that is exactly what they did...The School is not supposed to be involved and they were, these collectives are just slush funds

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How do we know that's what A&M did?


May 19, 2022, 4:14 PM
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We don't, and neither does Saban.

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Well of course that's what they did and the recruits said as


May 19, 2022, 4:49 PM
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much, you're off base on this one

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it is not dangerous for me to make those accusations***


May 19, 2022, 1:56 PM
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Cat on a tin roof, dogs in a pile,
Nothin' left to do but smile, smile, smile!!!!


True, but I don't think Saban has any business saying it.


May 19, 2022, 4:15 PM
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Also, he shouldn't be surprised with the reaction he has received.

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Yeah, but it's kinda splittin hairs at this point... technically,

emoji_events [5]
May 19, 2022, 12:14 PM
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legally... no, they didn't "buy players". But it's practically the same thing. They offered more lucrative $NIL deals than anybody else, and BOOM... not just the best recruiting class of 2022, but the best class in the history of college football from what I've read.

It's totally out of control, and there's probably no way to put the genie back in the bottle...

As others have said, I'm just glad I lived long enough to see us win a couple more nattys. I'm good.

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"They talk most who have the least to say." - Matthew Prior 1664-1721


I think they come across as him feeling the way most do…

emoji_events [5]
May 19, 2022, 12:11 PM
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Without changes, nil is bad for college football.

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"I've played multiple sports and would bet any amount that I'm still more athletic than you at this present time...."


I can certainly agree that NIL is bad for college football.

[2]
May 19, 2022, 12:14 PM
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But the powers that be sort of set this up to happen since they hhad no problem with college football becoming big business with huge TV contracts, ever-increasing coaching contracts, and state-of-the-art facilities.

Saban's comments would carry more weight if they came from someone who hasn't had every advantage in the world and won big - and made many millions of dollars doing so.

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Saban is just whiney mad because there is now a chance that

[2]
May 19, 2022, 12:19 PM
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someone elses "process" may actually have the $$$ overcome his THE PROCESS.

:)

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Re: Saban is just whiney mad because there is now a chance that

[1]
May 19, 2022, 3:07 PM
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Saban and Bamer flew Bryce Young and family to Bama during his recruiting and the new QB received a $1 Mil Nil deal (reported last year). The pot is calling the kettle black, both are in cohoots and guilty of the same. The NCAA screwed this up. Should be an interesting fall. Just hope we can land a few leftovers and not offer all of our scholarships to walk ons or coaches kids/friends kids.

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The complaints HAVE to come from successful coaches like

[3]
May 19, 2022, 12:25 PM
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Dabo and Nick to have some credibility...Nobody would listen to Dave Dorean or Mike Norvell, we know they have bigger problems

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The writers only listen to one of those two if they have

[2]
May 19, 2022, 12:28 PM
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something disparaging to say about Dabo.

:(

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I don't disagree that what Saban and Dabo say carries a lot


May 19, 2022, 4:18 PM
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more weight than most other coaches, but I'm not sure they have much of a say either. They are easily painted as out of touch when they themselves make $8-$10 million a year coaching these same players, in an industry that generates many times more money with TV contracts, endorsement deals, etc.

The courts don't care what coaches think, and I'm not sure the NCAA does either. If Saban and Dabo don't like it, there are plenty of coaches who don't have an issue with it who would love their jobs.

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: I can certainly agree that NIL is bad for college football.


May 19, 2022, 2:39 PM
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But the powers that be sort of set this up to happen since they hhad no problem with college football becoming big business with huge TV contracts, ever-increasing coaching contracts, and state-of-the-art facilities.

Saban's comments would carry more weight if they came from someone who hasn't had every advantage in the world and won big - and made many millions of dollars doing so.


How about the transfer Dexter Dennis in basketball? Chose Texas a&m over Clemson. You don't think an NIL deal was reached when most were saying it was down to Clemson and Kansas State and were not even mentioning the Aggies as a landing spot. You don't think that was fare?

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I suspect that NIL was part of the equation at A&M


May 19, 2022, 4:20 PM
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but you can't blame Dexter Dennis or Texas A&M if a superior NIL deal was reached within the confines of the current system. I have no reason to think that anything illegal occurred.

This is what we get for playing on the slippery slope of giving players "their slice of the pie."

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: I think they come across as him feeling the way most do…

[3]
May 19, 2022, 12:32 PM
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Don't let JK fool you. He's keeping his fingers crossed that our football program takes a slide due to NIL. He's salivating to come on here and post some BS such as...

See Dabo isn't the same coach without an even playing field and without the money and resources these bigger schools have. He will go on to say Brownell is no different and would be just as good of a coach if he had an even playing field. I can read that troll like a book.

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Re: I dislike NIL as much as anyone, but


May 19, 2022, 12:27 PM
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I suppose it may come across as sour grapes but I don't have a problem with Saban calling it like it is. A&M and Miami are literally buying their roster and there isn't a person who follows college football that doesnt see it. I'm sure Dabo is saying the same thing, although probably only to his wife or maybe coaching staff. So I guess its fair to suggest Saban should #### and ignore the elephant in the room but I certainly don't fall into the camp that feels like he should. Its going to take people like Saban pushing back on the new reality in order to get it to change.

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If NIL is "buying a roster"


May 19, 2022, 4:30 PM
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you can also argue that other perks a school has in place are in essence "buying a roster" as well.

It's all variations on the theme of spending money to impress players and get the ones you want, whether that money is funneled through endorsements, facilities, or whatever else.

Now, instead of spending money on things players like, it's about giving them money for "endorsement" deals. I agree that it's not good for the sport, but neither was the facilities arms race, special dorms for athletes, athlete-friendly majors, etc.

As I've said before, the intent of collegiate athletics was ruined when athletic scholarships became permissible. Since then, the academic side has been minimized and the athletic side has been prioritized. It's disgusting.

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


All I know - Saturday, October 8, 2022 just got very

[2]
May 19, 2022, 12:28 PM
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interesting...



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"When I was young, I was sure of many things; now there are only two things of which I am sure: one is, that I am a miserable sinner; and the other, that Christ is an all-sufficient Saviour. He is well-taught who learns these two lessons." -John Newton


That is...illogical.


May 19, 2022, 12:32 PM
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The new Spock showed he is an environmentalist. He went "green" to snag Zoe Caldona. (I know, she was only green in Guardians of the Galaxy. That is totally not German to this conversation.)

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They have openly broken NCAA rules on pay to play with

[1]
May 19, 2022, 12:54 PM
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position group NIL deals. These deals are contingent on playing a specific position at Texas A&M. This is blatantly against the rules but the NCAA has failed to act, so far. This type of deal was specifically singled out in the recent guidance from the NCAA on reference to NIL.

Somehow it’s not surprising you would defend Jimbo Fischer.

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Well - he's a troll - so of course taking the minority

[1]
May 19, 2022, 1:05 PM
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opinion and turning it a certain way, while also jabbing at everything Clemson EXCEPT our CRAPPY basketball coach & program - of course he would rush to a&m's sewer pond built by jimbo.


It's hard to look at what a&m is doing but what is even harder is looking at what Clemson didn't do enough of - paraphrased from jk in this thread. (I'm not going back to c&p his drivel)


What a total clown.

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Brad Brownell: all-time losingest coach in Clemson men's basketball history, and only coach to beat North Carolina in Chapel Hill.


Re: They have openly broken NCAA rules on pay to play with

[1]
May 19, 2022, 1:06 PM
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I think that was Texas, but I agree that it is wrong.
Every scholarship O Lineman receives $50,000 on top of any other NIL they negotiate. The 50k comes from booster funds, “disguised” as NIL. I don’t think the NCAA can/will do anything because it is not technically illegal. It may violate the spirit of the law, but the government and NCAA must step up to regulate.

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I have no problem with NIL.


May 19, 2022, 1:39 PM
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Restricting kids from earning money because they play a college sport was something I always saw as arcane and overly invasive. However, the NCAA completely dropped the ball on being pro-active with NIL and its administration, and being caught flat-footed as such is threatening the whole enchilada.

A&M definitely exploited every loophole they could and took full advantage of the existing landscape. Because they have the right doesn't make it right, though, so I fully appreciate them being called out on it from their peers, and Jimbo's rants when this has happened are hilarious. Their situation sheds light though on how in need of a shared structure for administering NIL agreements programs and leagues are. A&M and Bama are rival schools, so all I really see from Saban here is poking a rival and getting Jimbo uncomfortable, which apparently worked to perfection.

Were its member institutions so inclined, the NCAA, as the collective that it is, could absolutely pin CFP and NCAA tournament eligibility on a program remaining under a certain program-wide NIL cap. Decide on that amount, require all programs to report all NIL earnings from the designated period being utilized, and that's that. If your school chooses to accept or maintain a roster whose collective NIL deals exceed the maximum allowed to be eligible, that's on the school. The NCAA has used post-season eligibility as a means to enforce rules, and no law or court case out there has stated that the NCAA cannot take, or enforce, such a position. To date laws and court cases have only mandated that a kid CAN earn money through this route and that that same person CANNOT be ruled ineligible to play by the NCAA or a participating school. Just like capping a scholarship roster at 85 being enforceable and determining post-season eligibility remains, so too could capping how much NIL 'sponsorship' any individual program can attain from its roster. They can still field a team and the kids can all play a season - they would just be opting out of the championship phase that participating member schools agreed on to best maintain the overall health of the sport.

There are hundreds of college football teams out there. If a player coming out of high school can't earn enough NIL money from a particular program that he wants to attend because they are near or at their cap - pick another school and shoot for the moon. Programs turn kids down all the time because they don't have roster space. Nothing illegal about that it appears, so simply extend NIL program limits along the same lines.

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I agree that NIL should be managed much better by the NCAA


May 19, 2022, 4:37 PM
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but since it hasn't, I can't fault A&M for operating within the full scope of the rules.

I think 99% of fans here would be fine with Clemson doing what A&M did if we had the funding setup. But since we don't, A&M is painted as sleazy and "buying players."

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Re: I agree that NIL should be managed much better by the NCAA


May 19, 2022, 5:47 PM
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The NCAA hasn't yet, but I suspect it will be, as it remains a collective body of participating institutions that are eager to establish a better set of parameters.

I don't fault A&M for what they did as you suggest, as it was there for the taking, but I do think it was poor sportsmanship to a large extent and one that exposes a lack of guiding principles there. I suspect this will bite them in the rear before it's all said and done.

I disagree strongly with your last comment. I feel the vast majority of Clemson football fans appreciate and respect the rock solid foundation that Dabo has established during his time here - doing it the right way with results bested only by one program - Alabama. Buying a full recruiting class as A&M engaged in this past cycle is a short cut that Dabo has warned repeatedly about when it comes to achieving greatness, and with good reason. I don't read our football fan base as being the sell-outs that your number and sentiment suggest.

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Re: I dislike NIL as much as anyone, but

[1]
May 19, 2022, 4:27 PM
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I agree with you.

"Just tell me the rules and I can play the game."

Jimbo is a jerk. Based on past history, he will not be a long term success at aTm. But, he did nothing against the rules of the NCAA or the SEC or aTm.

Saban's choice of words was intended to cast a shadow on the aTm recruiting class.

"bought every player" can be interpreted many different ways. Saban can interpret it to mean aTm, through the boosters, got the guys to commit to aTm by signing them to a contract to come to aTm. Fisher can interpret it to mean "aTm did not write a single check to a single player who signed with us. We followed every rule. We bought no one."

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How do we know who is operating within the rules?


May 19, 2022, 4:28 PM
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Isn’t there language in the new rules that says NIL shouldn’t be used as an inducement in recruiting?

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Very, very happy- very, very proud.


That question can be asked in previous recruiting cycles


May 19, 2022, 4:42 PM
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as well.

How do we know that Alabama didn't cheat? Or Ohio State? Or Georgia? Or (gasp!) Clemson?

I think it's unfair to assume that A&M must have cheated to sign the class they did. Perhaps they did cheat, but as it stands now, the evidence points to them exploiting NIL to the fullest extent. Good for them.

(No, I don't think we cheated and I am not suggesting that we did.)

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Shouldn’t you be worried about


May 20, 2022, 6:19 AM
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How are you going to put six players on the court next year?

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I think they're both right. I think Saban is right to say


May 20, 2022, 8:51 AM
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they bought their players at A&M and I think Jimbo is right is his assessment of Nick Saban. Thats why they're both butthurt. They're tangled in this "football is all that matters" mindset that only leads to this type of bickering and arguing behavior. They both are bending the rules of decency and it can only lead to paranoia and disdain for your competition.

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