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CU Medallion [58411]
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I did not watch the J6 hearings tonight, but I did flip
Jun 9, 2022, 11:38 PM
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around to catch post-show commentary, and I settled on News Nation. They seem to have the most balanced, non-partisan coverage, with viewpoints and opinions from all sides and everything in between.
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Hall of Famer [24764]
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Has been my go-to since they started... Totally agree.***
Jun 9, 2022, 11:48 PM
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: I did not watch the J6 hearings tonight, but I did flip
Jun 9, 2022, 11:51 PM
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CU Medallion [58411]
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One guy was saying how dangerous Trump was and how
Jun 10, 2022, 12:06 AM
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the committee was connecting the dots between Trump and the actual violence and break-in and storming of the capitol, and another pointed out that after over a year of investigating and unlimited resources, when laying out their case tonight, there was no hint of any evidence that Trump himself was involved in the actual planning or coordinating of the actual violence and breaking into the capitol, or that he had any prior knowledge of it whatsoever. But, there was quite a bit of discussion too about how Trump's continued insistance that the election was stolen was dangerous misinformation, which I agree with. Like I said, overall, a very balanced commentary and presentation.
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Orange Blooded [2595]
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As much as I dislike Trump I have never
Jun 10, 2022, 5:11 AM
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thought that he planned the storming of the capital HOWEVER his continued insistence that the election was stolen (with no proof) is what got these clowns so worked up that they just lost their minds. THAT is his fault. Once this began on January 6th he apparently was taking delight that these fine American Patriots were fighting for him and stared at the TV as this was going on at the capital and had to be coerced to comment on it hours later. What a bozo he is.
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All-TigerNet [13105]
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Re: As much as I dislike Trump I have never
Jun 10, 2022, 7:08 AM
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You were there?
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All-In [26968]
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This is obvious...
Jun 10, 2022, 8:43 AM
[ in reply to As much as I dislike Trump I have never ] |
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It is obvious the President did not plan anything, and also obvious that his rhetoric about the election was a root cause of the event. Are there people who disagree with these two items?
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All-TigerNet [13105]
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Re: This is obvious...
Jun 10, 2022, 8:52 AM
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If you are going to start jailing politicians for "rhetoric", you better start building jails.
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All-In [26968]
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I definitely am not in favor of jailing anyone over rhetoric***
Jun 10, 2022, 8:59 AM
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Hall of Famer [20540]
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Re: This is obvious...
Jun 10, 2022, 9:14 AM
[ in reply to Re: This is obvious... ] |
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You can't jail a politician for rhetoric. You can jail him for election interference, it's right there in the link to Section 15 I posted.
You can also jail a politician (or anybody) for seditious conspiracy. I'm less sold they've got him on organizing the riot and conspiring with the Oathkeepers and Proud Boys - which would indeed make Trump guilty of seditious conspiracy as well - but we'll see. Some of those dudes are looking at 20 years; if they've got something to trade in regards to, say, Roger Stone, we may well find out. But that would be a Justice Department thing, too, probably not a Committee thing.
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CU Medallion [58411]
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Then what is this hearing all about, and why is it on
Jun 10, 2022, 11:06 AM
[ in reply to This is obvious... ] |
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prime-time? Unless they can prove that Trump was aware of the coup beforehand, or was involved in the planning or coordination, then there was no crime on his part. Simply stating the false belief that the election was rigged and stolen is not illegal, even if it was wrong and had the potential to incite fools to do bad things. That's a leap they don't want to make.
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Hall of Famer [20540]
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Re: Then what is this hearing all about, and why is it on
Jun 10, 2022, 11:43 AM
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There's actually two separate issues, election interference, and seditious conspiracy.
Election interference itself is a crime. See the link I provided above. The Committee's strongly indicating that they've got Trump and his little Cabal on that, and honestly Donald did that one in plain view anyhow...which does not make it any less illegal. He put massive (and illegal) pressure on election officials in multiple states to throw out votes and change totals. My guess is the Committee's going to parade a variety of witnesses out - folks we've heard from before and many we haven't - to confirm that assertion beyond any argument. They're also going to show how he organized slates of fake electors to try to send to Congress. And that is bad, bad news for Trump...because the Committee's already shown (and will continue to pile on) multiple witnesses, including William Barr, Ivanka, and Trump's own data analytics team - to confirm that Trump knew full well he'd lost the election, and was in fact lying about it. But Donald tried to overturn the election anyhow, far beyond legal bounds. And the penalty for that is one to five years...and would also bar Trump from holding future office.
That's very different from the seditious conspiracy charges relating to the violent storming of the Capitol the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers are charged with. So far no evidence has been presented directly linking Trump to that.
Except...what the ^%$^$ was Roger Stone doing with the Oath Keepers the morning of 1/6 again? Even if the Committee doesn't have an answer, you have to wonder if the DOJ may. And Trump's not in office anymore, he has no more pardons to hand out. If the conspirators start looking at 20-year jail terms (which is the penalty seditious conspiracy carries), they may have a great deal to say to save their skins. That's where the link to Trump, if there is one (and I personally believe there absolutely is), would likely come out.
I think they have him cold on election interference. I'm iffy on whether or not he's ever charged with seditious conspiracy, though I think Roger Stone is likely in the soup...again. (He got 40 months over the Mueller affair before Trump pardoned him.) Curious to see if Roger's willing to rot without rolling this time. The dude is a high-strung narcissistic lunatic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1G2hi6ODac
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CU Medallion [58411]
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It's almost like you're on the committee.***
Jun 10, 2022, 12:31 PM
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Hall of Famer [20540]
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Re: As much as I dislike Trump I have never
Jun 10, 2022, 8:50 AM
[ in reply to As much as I dislike Trump I have never ] |
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I disagree, personally.
I actually think Trump's in enormous legal jeopardy, far more than people credit after he's ducked two impeachments and seems to have at least stonewalled for the moment the Manhattan criminal investigation into his finances. (Mostly owing to the fact that the Manhattan AD seems to have bet the farm on turning the Trump Org CFO Allen Weisselberg and didn't succeed despite the fact that Weisselberg looks like he's facing at least a decade in prison if he's convicted of those tax-fraud charges.) But Trump often seems to have nine lives, legally.
The problem is that interfering with an election is itself illegal, and what Cheney and the Committee did show with painstakingly clarity (and the point they will obviously continue to pound) is that Trump clearly knew he'd lost the election - they almost started with that! - and yet continued to rip away in a variety of fashions (they called it his "seven point plan") to overturn the results. They have him cold on illegal election interference, IMHO. They get him on this, it's done, it's over. He can never hold office again. And I don't see how they don't have him on this.
https://www.usip.org/sites/default/files/MC1/MC1-Part2Section15.pdf
They have shown zero evidence to date Trump had a hand in what the Proud Boys and Oathkeepers - who are being charged with seditious conspiracy - were up to. But they showed every sign they have the goods on him in regards to pressuring the VP and state officials to change the results, which is illegal, and that he illegally organized a campaign to send fake electors to Congress. All of that was witnessed by people who did cooperate with the Committee, they have proof positive of all that in spades. They established it last night.
But is he in danger of more? I think so. The Committee is really, really going after the Proud Boys and Oathkeepers in the early presentation. That interested me. And if there's a link between those guys and Trump it's almost certainly through that "inner circle" of conspirators - Bannon, Flynn, Sidney Powell, Eastman, Giuliani - who seem to have been eyeballs-deep in the shady stuff and who did not cooperate with the Committee. And Trump would have been aware the violent stuff the Oathkeepers and Proud Boys were planning was highly illegal, so he would have sent somebody he trusted as an intermediary. Maybe somebody, say, that he'd known for years, somebody who'd already been convicted of doing illegal deeds for Trump to the tune of 40 months, but who was then pardoned by Trump because he kept his mouth shut and didn't turn on Trump during the Mueller Investigation.
And hey, here's that somebody the very morning of January 6th, with his Oathkeeper buddies right at hand. Hi, Roger!
What the Committee is doing right now seems foundational. I'm wondering if they may drop a bomb on us later. Because there very much does appear to be a definitive link between the Trump camp and the folks now charged with by far the worst stuff coming out of 1/6.
The Committee may not even be the ones to break stuff related to that. That would probably be the purview of Main Justice since it would require the kind of investigatory subpoenas they couldn't themselves issue. They aren't law enforcement.
But because of the foundation they're establishing, they may make it real, real easy for law enforcement. Because that link looks like it's there.
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Legend [19901]
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Re: As much as I dislike Trump I have never
Jun 10, 2022, 9:03 AM
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If you put more focus on facts than you do suppositions maybe people could try to take you seriously from time to time.
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Rock Defender [53]
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CU Medallion [58411]
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Re: As much as I dislike Trump I have never
Jun 10, 2022, 12:34 PM
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He's engaged in a lot of wild speculation.
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Hall of Famer [20540]
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: As much as I dislike Trump I have never
Jun 10, 2022, 1:10 PM
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Hall of Famer [20540]
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Re: As much as I dislike Trump I have never
Jun 10, 2022, 1:31 PM
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I don't know what Trump told them. I just find it really fascinating Roger Stone was with them the very morning they attacked the Capitol.
Roger's always been a political fixer. He's got a gift for self-promotion (most folks describe him as a "mendacious windbag", actually) and he co-founded a K-street outfit called Black, Manafort, Stone and Kelly (better known as BMSK) in Washington back in the day with (drum roll) Paul Manafort. He basically worked to connect dirty foreign money with American politicians. He's always played the role of the rogue gentleman mercenary, and loves dressing like a Nazi spy from Indiana Jones, complete with dark trilby hat and circular shades. He calls himself a "dirty trickster" and seems to like the dark end of the street. Basically, he's always been the dude you send to do stuff you want kept off the books.
And oh, yeah, he was a longtime friend of Donald Trump, predating even his days with BMSK. He was the one who received the contents of the Russian DNC hack and passed it on to Julian Assange and WikiLeaks, for which he got 40 months from Mueller & Company. He wouldn't roll on Trump, though...and Trump then pardoned him.
So again, what was Stone doing meeting with these guys the very morning they were about to launch their alleged seditious conspiracy against Congress?
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: As much as I dislike Trump I have never
Jun 10, 2022, 10:18 AM
[ in reply to As much as I dislike Trump I have never ] |
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thought that he planned the storming of the capital HOWEVER his continued insistence that the election was stolen (with no proof) is what got these clowns so worked up that they just lost their minds. THAT is his fault. Once this began on January 6th he apparently was taking delight that these fine American Patriots were fighting for him and stared at the TV as this was going on at the capital and had to be coerced to comment on it hours later. What a bozo he is.
I agree with most of this.
Will you now agree that Democrats rhetoric regarding police violence and just the overall BLM movement "got those clowns so worked up that they just lost their minds" Is that their fault?
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Hall of Famer [20540]
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Re: I did not watch the J6 hearings tonight, but I did flip
Jun 10, 2022, 8:19 AM
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Agree on News Nation. I've been singing its praises for awhile for both its lack of bias and its factual accuracy and its lack of opinion and position advocacy on the part of its anchors. And hey, check this out....
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/newsnation/ NewsNation Now LEAST BIASED These sources have minimal bias and use very few loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by appeals to emotion or
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110%er [9664]
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Funny that it shows them as a slight left-lean; I would have
Jun 10, 2022, 8:25 AM
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characterized them as a slight-right lean.
I guess that means they're doing a good job of staying in the middle.
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Rock Defender [53]
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All-TigerNet [12592]
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Re: I did not watch the J6 hearings tonight, but I did flip
Jun 10, 2022, 2:04 PM
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Why bother watching this? We all watched 4 years of the Trump presidency and the post election claims along with Jan 6th. We know Trump wanted Pence to overturn the election. We know Trump delayed forcefully moving against the rioters. He will not face jail time for the events of Jan 6th in my opinion, nor in my opinion, should he. He may be charged with something, but he won't be convicted.
If Trump runs again, Jan 6th will not be a significant factor in voting for or against Trump for most people. I don't see this changing anyone's mind.
The 2024 election will be a referendum on Biden, not Trump, that was 2020.
I hope neither Biden nor Trump run. If so, I've seen enough from both men to vote 3rd party.
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Hall of Famer [24764]
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Welcome to the Third Rail...***
Jun 10, 2022, 2:09 PM
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