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YOUR BALANCE
I am serious.
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I am serious.


Dec 20, 2016, 9:19 AM

I completely understand the fear of being hurt and falling in the draft and costing the "self" millions of dollars. What makes team sports so good is "team." This is why I wiggle when I see someone after scoring a touchdown celebrating as though they did it completely independent of the other ten on the team during that play.

On a team, you learn altruism. The "self" becomes less important than the benefits to the whole. You play for your team mates. They play for you. Can you imagine a second Lieutenant as he sits in a fox- hole telling his platoon, or squad, "You go ahead guys and fight this one out. I'm going to stay right here. If I were to get shot I might lose out on a management position when I get back to the states."

In my opinion, the players who are now "sitting one out" are letting down their teams--the team who got them to the level they enjoy. They are letting down the fans who bought tickets to see them play, cheered them through the seasons, and financially supported the athletics at their schools. In the end, they are letting down themselves. Like in life, it is all not about them. They are just small part of a larger narrative.

Flawed philosophy? Maybe! But, then again, I am old.

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Tiger/Terrier


Nail on the Head


Dec 20, 2016, 9:22 AM

+1

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+ 2***


Dec 20, 2016, 6:04 PM



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Re: I am serious.


Dec 20, 2016, 9:24 AM

I agree with you! Not one of them would be in the limelight without the other 10 on the field. Don't believe it? Watch the blocking break down at the LOS and see how many yards the runner gets.

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Re: I am serious.


Dec 20, 2016, 9:24 AM

Old doesnt make what you feel any less correct

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I can't fault players doing this


Dec 20, 2016, 9:25 AM

as long as there are coaches (who are supposed to be their role models) bolting for new positions before the season is up.

"But that's business... It's a business decision for the coach."

it is for the player too...

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Then, if it is all just business, should we not be pulling


Dec 20, 2016, 9:28 AM

scholarships from players who do not measure up to expectation like they do in the SEC?

Following bad examples, like bad coaches, does not make it business or correct.

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Tiger/Terrier


Re: Then, if it is all just business, should we not be pulling


Dec 20, 2016, 9:30 AM

How is it not business related?

Their respective bowl games can only hurt them....

Also, college scholarships are renewed. If you aren't doing your job you won't have a scholly.

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"Clemson has been historically better than Carolina. That's pretty obvious." - Classof09

"No one knew we were overhyped until the season started." - Classof09


Re: Then, if it is all just business, should we not be pulling


Dec 20, 2016, 9:31 AM

And their teams. Their fans. The bowls themselves.

But, you missed the point entirely.

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Tiger/Terrier


Re: Then, if it is all just business, should we not be pulling


Dec 20, 2016, 9:34 AM

The team, the fans, and the bowls are not their responsibility....

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"Clemson has been historically better than Carolina. That's pretty obvious." - Classof09

"No one knew we were overhyped until the season started." - Classof09


I think you missed my point entirely fwiw***


Dec 20, 2016, 9:34 AM [ in reply to Re: Then, if it is all just business, should we not be pulling ]



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I didn't say it was right, I said I can't fault them


Dec 20, 2016, 9:34 AM [ in reply to Then, if it is all just business, should we not be pulling ]

when their superiors are giving them that example.

Also, I don't think just anyone is in this position, maybe one or two people a year at most.

So any coach that leaves before the bowl game is a bad coach?

As for pulling scholarships because it is just business... Scholarships are contracts. Breaking contracts is what I would consider 'bad business.'


Message was edited by: Murica®


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Absolutely. Any coach that leaves his job (UNLESS FIRED)


Dec 20, 2016, 9:42 AM

has 1) abandoned his team, 2) failed to honor his commitment and legal contract with his employer, 3) I assume will be penalized via some sort of contractual buyout or forfeiture, and 4) is a ##### bag for doing so.


I hardly see any comparison.

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Hmmm...Venables was under contract with Oklahoma


Dec 20, 2016, 9:46 AM

when he left for Clemson, right? He didn't get fired.

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Re: Hmmm...Venables was under contract with Oklahoma


Dec 20, 2016, 9:47 AM

"Do as I say, not as I do"....

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"Clemson has been historically better than Carolina. That's pretty obvious." - Classof09

"No one knew we were overhyped until the season started." - Classof09


Re: Hmmm...Venables was under contract with Oklahoma


Dec 20, 2016, 10:04 AM [ in reply to Hmmm...Venables was under contract with Oklahoma ]

He didn't quit before the last game, coot. Besides, he had been demoted after losing to A&M in the Cotton Bowl.

Jan 19, 2012: "NORMAN, Okla. -- Last week, the Sooners added a defensive coordinator.

This week, they lost one.

Brent Venables, an assistant at Oklahoma under Bob Stoops since 1999, is leaving to take the defensive coordinator job at Clemson.


Venables was co-defensive coordinator at OU from 1999 to 2003, before taking over the defensive playcalling after Mike Stoops left. But last week, Bob Stoops brought his brother Mike back to the staff, relegating Venables to being a co-coordinator again.

After a brief recruiting stint with Mike Stoops to Florida, Venables flew to Clemson with his wife to meet with Tigers coach Dabo Swinney and tour the facilities. Venables returned to Oklahoma City on Sunday night, and told reporters then he had not yet taken the job."

Nice try, thanks for playing.

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OK, just saying. He met all the criteria in your previous


Dec 20, 2016, 10:16 AM

post.

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Re: OK, just saying. He met all the criteria in your previous


Dec 20, 2016, 10:19 AM

I was obviously talking about quitting before the season was over.

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Obviously...***


Dec 20, 2016, 10:20 AM



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Re: OK, just saying. He met all the criteria in your previous


Dec 20, 2016, 10:20 AM [ in reply to Re: OK, just saying. He met all the criteria in your previous ]

Given my post was in response to "So any coach that leaves before the bowl game is a bad coach?"

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Re: Hmmm...Venables was under contract with Oklahoma


Dec 20, 2016, 9:44 PM [ in reply to Hmmm...Venables was under contract with Oklahoma ]

Well, I wonder if his contract as OC at OU had anything that said, "oh, by the way, you may only be co-OC, if we think Bob's brother loses his job and is hunting work?" I would imagine BV's contract as OC didn't have a clause that said he might just get pushed to the curb in case Stoop's brother got destitute. As a side note I might ad that old Mike didn't work out nearly as good as our hire. They reap what they have sewn.


Message was edited by: Dugatiger®


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so again... I can't fault players while coaches are doing it***


Dec 20, 2016, 10:22 AM [ in reply to Absolutely. Any coach that leaves his job (UNLESS FIRED) ]



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Re: so again... I can't fault players while coaches are doing it***


Dec 20, 2016, 10:27 AM

That doesn't make it right. It is wrong for coaches to leave before the season is over. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Make your case using a different argument. This one is flawed.


I like to kill baby puppies, but you can't fault me for it because my neighbor likes to kill baby puppies too. See how stupid that sounds?

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IM NOT SAYING IT IS RIGHT


Dec 20, 2016, 10:44 AM

What a ridiculous comparison.

You are literally not understanding what I am saying.

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Re: I didn't say it was right, I said I can't fault them


Dec 20, 2016, 10:55 AM [ in reply to I didn't say it was right, I said I can't fault them ]

>
> Also, I don't think just anyone is in this position,
> maybe one or two people a year at most.
>
> >
> Message was edited by: Murica®

Unfortunately, I think this is something we will see more and more of. And it will eventually hurt college football as bowl teams will not be the same as the regular season because the starts sit out. It is just like those who leave after their JR year and get drafted in the 4th-5th 6th rounds or not at all. (Most) every college FB athlete thinks they are going to the NFL.

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Another thumb's up!**********


Dec 20, 2016, 10:11 AM [ in reply to Then, if it is all just business, should we not be pulling ]



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Re: I can't fault players doing this


Dec 20, 2016, 9:35 AM [ in reply to I can't fault players doing this ]

I fault the coaches for all of the same reasons mentioned by the opine.
Spurrier is a good example.(a hypocrite)

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Re: I can't fault players doing this - Murica


Dec 20, 2016, 10:18 AM [ in reply to I can't fault players doing this ]

Apples and peanuts - no comparison. Besides are you saying if others do wrong it is ok for you to do wrong! The justification of crooks, etc.

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DUDE there's a difference between 'i can't fault them'


Dec 20, 2016, 10:24 AM

and 'it is right'

I cannot hold them at fault when their role models are giving the examples that they do...

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We, as fans, have the luxury


Dec 20, 2016, 9:31 AM

Of sitting on our sofas, and in the stands, talking about the virtues of the team and how important the team is. And it is important to learn the value of the team. That will go far in life.

We are not in a position where the decisions we make in regards to this "team" affect the future of multiple generations of people. It's easy for me, as a fan, to say that a players should "stick with his team" because it's the right thing to do. What about the little girl, born a few years from now, whose future and quality education are secured because Daddy signed a big football contract? We as fans don't have to think about that.

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Re: We, as fans, have the luxury


Dec 20, 2016, 9:38 AM

Sigh!

I guess I just see things very differently being so old and having been reared, and lived, with different understandings of loyalty and expectation.

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Tiger/Terrier


Here's a quick couple of questions for you....


Dec 20, 2016, 9:40 AM

Have you ever quit a job? Have you ever left a job for a better, higher paying one?

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"Clemson has been historically better than Carolina. That's pretty obvious." - Classof09

"No one knew we were overhyped until the season started." - Classof09


Re: Here's a quick couple of questions for you....


Dec 20, 2016, 10:49 AM

yes, but I give them 2 weeks notice so I can finish up loose ends and not leave them in a crunch

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BiNGO..We the fans have helped create a Sports Monster


Dec 20, 2016, 10:56 AM

And I for One am getting a little put-out about it all and pulling back gradually with my support & time & $.

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Have you worked for one company your entire life?


Dec 20, 2016, 9:40 AM [ in reply to Re: We, as fans, have the luxury ]

If not, were you being disloyal when you changed jobs? Didn't you do it for the good of you and your family?

After all, no team is as important as the "team" that's at home.

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Re: Have you worked for one company your entire life?


Dec 20, 2016, 9:47 AM

Why yes, yes I have.

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Re: Have you worked for one company your entire life?


Dec 20, 2016, 9:51 AM [ in reply to Have you worked for one company your entire life? ]

Ridiculous. Obviously, you've never been a "key man" at your work. Quitting your job as a fry cook, doesn't leave McDonald's in a bad place, even if it is lunch time.

But when your employer has invested in your strategy and leadership, has tailored its program around your choices, has convinced its other "employees" that yours is the correct direction, that the ownership bestow complete trust in you.. then you up and leave before the most critical part of the project is complete?? That's ########, and I'll say it about whoever leaves that way.

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One could argue the project is over


Dec 20, 2016, 9:57 AM

Now there's a few meetings still scheduled, and a few last minute tasks, but they won't effect the success of the project.

So, yeah, the employee feels its time to move on to a future with an employer who can provide compensation more in line with his effort and abilities.

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Well I guess if you think bowl games aren't important


Dec 20, 2016, 10:14 AM

like they are just some meaningless award given out at the company Christmas party. I think they are tremendously important, even the lower tiered ones.

Really, you can't wait a few weeks? A few weeks to see the job through, to be there for those that you believed in to whom you have surely preached about the virtues of "not quitting"? If your new employer really wants you and you are really that "good", they will wait.

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You are in the extreme minority


Dec 20, 2016, 10:17 AM

if you think the lower bowls are important. They are just exhibitions put on solely to make money for the TV networks and schools (not the players).

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He has a $5 million insurance policy to protect from injury.


Dec 20, 2016, 10:18 AM [ in reply to We, as fans, have the luxury ]

I think the hypothetical little girl will be OK.

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Re: I am serious.


Dec 20, 2016, 9:48 AM

ITs called "finish". I understand it's good business sense if you can leave after 3 years for big money, but not quit in the last game of the season "to prepare for the draft". Course, it's not my decision. What would y'all think if Watson, Gallman, Leggett and Williams made the same decision? There might be a little outrage. Would MCAF and Fournette be making this decision if THEY were in the playoffs? Probably not.

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Well, the players will have a lot of time to reminisce in


Dec 20, 2016, 9:51 AM

the offseason in their 20,000 sq ft house.

~ CS02

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That's great and all, but ask Jaylon Smith, a sure fire


Dec 20, 2016, 9:57 AM

early first round pick, how he feels about playing for the team and fans. Are the team and fans going to make up the difference in what he would have made and what he ended up making due to his drop in the draft, which I'm sure is millions of dollars? Not to mention endorsements as being an impactful rookie v. sitting out an entire season.

It's a player's personal decision. If it was my kid, I would certainly let him make the decision, but I would want him to know the risks involved on both sides of the decision.

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Well, Jaylon Smith said last night he would do the same


Dec 20, 2016, 10:04 AM

thing and play, even knowing how that worked out !!

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There is also just being practical and using common sense.


Dec 20, 2016, 10:00 AM

In some situations it is better to sit out. If they were in the playoff they wouldn't be sitting out. The playoffs have changed things. They made the right call.

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Perfectly said...and I have been that 2nd Lt. in a foxhole!****


Dec 20, 2016, 10:10 AM



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To me that makes perfect sense.


Dec 20, 2016, 10:28 AM

To the average Millenial mind that comes across as crazy talk.

The strange juxtposition is that societally, the older generations have been brought up individuality, self reliance and independence. The newer generations have been inundated with the message of community, group identification, and unionization of cause.

Yet older generations are more likely to shun individual adorization and the cult of celebrity, are more inclined to join groups and clubs and even Unionize.

The millenial generation is more self inclined and appreciates celebrity for celebrity sake. They are less likely to participate in traditional teams and groups. They don't appreciate common beliefs as often and are for lack of a better term "selfish".

The book Bowling Alone is a good read, though it is now dated. It speaks to the mindset of individualists over groups.

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"When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car."

"I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it."


Yes, you are obviously an old fart that thinks


Dec 20, 2016, 10:32 AM

words like responsibility, dedication, commitment, teamwork, and brotherhood are actually important.

You need to get with the times, old man; it's all about "me, myself, and money."

You probably actually admire those stupid "18 to 20 year olds" [in the words of funny TigerNetters] who stayed and died in the cold snow with their little "band of brothers" at Valley Forge, or Bastogne, or The Chosin, when they could have easily gotten out when the gettin' was good.

Those type of "boys" were impractical and misguided; this is really the "greatest generation;" they know that it's all about "looking out for number one."

Get with the program, old man. They won't be helping to "Make America Great Again," but at least they'll be smart enough to cut early deals with their Chi-Comm invaders to get double rations and a warmer cell between burial shifts of their "mates."

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Re: Yes, you are obviously an old fart that thinks


Dec 20, 2016, 12:31 PM

Thank you!

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Tiger/Terrier


Outstanding post!***


Dec 20, 2016, 6:07 PM [ in reply to Yes, you are obviously an old fart that thinks ]



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Equating war with sports is ALWAYS a good idea. ALWAYS!***


Dec 20, 2016, 10:34 AM



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I agree with Team, but there are two sides to every


Dec 20, 2016, 10:54 AM

story. I won't get into whether players sitting out is "right" or wrong, but here's another thing to consider. Universities have bankrolled an education for these players, any way you want to look at it. Now, they also, in the case of well known ones like McCaffrey, have reaped many benefits, from increased fan attendance, national exposure, etc.

However, many of these same things resulting from his performance are what caused Stanford to get the bowl invitation they got. I think, if players are not going to play, this should be declared BEFORE bowl bids go out, otherwise you play. I am sure the Sun Bowl was thinking that seeing a Heisman caliber player in their bowl would at least give some fans a reason to buy a ticket.

Not saying it would ever happen, but could you imagine the repercussions if Watson, Gallman, Williams, Scott, and Leggett all decided to sit out the playoffs to not risk getting hurt? There is absolutely nothing in the rules right now to deter this from happening. This is going to be a very slippery slope in the future, unless some hard and fast rules come into play.

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I agree but...


Dec 20, 2016, 12:57 PM

if they aren't all in they shouldn't be part of the team. Thinking of clowney now...

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Has the "this is me being serious" meme gone out of fashion?***


Dec 20, 2016, 12:59 PM



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null


Re: I am serious.


Dec 20, 2016, 7:13 PM

Have heard this battered around on various sports talk shows all day...many feel they owe the school nothing and they are just doing what they need to do to get the best job available after graduation. That is what most of us did as well. If they are nursing an injury I completely understand, otherwise they are doing just what Spurrier did...quitting before the season is over. That is the essence of a team, sticking together in the context of winning and in losing.

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Thank you!***


Dec 21, 2016, 1:00 AM



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