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Hypothetical questions, possibly without a good answer.
General Boards - Politics
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Replies: 46  

Hypothetical questions, possibly without a good answer.

[2]
May 3, 2022, 12:49 PM
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We've all beaten the drum on division, partisanship, the ills of social media, etc.

Here's the big question to me. How do we get people back to realizing that throughout the history of this country, there have been governmental decisions that some people liked, and some people didn't like, and yet life went on?

We've gotten to this chicken little mentality where almost every government policy or judicial decision is "OMG THE BEST/WORST COUNTRY SAVING/DESTROYING THING EVUR" instead of realizing that everything is cyclical, you win some and you lose some, and there are periods where your life will be incrementally better or incrementally worse as results of government activity, but at the end of the day your mayor and city/county council will have more impact on your quality of life than any President, Congressman, or Justice ever will.

This used to be a realization that came with the wisdom that comes from age, but old people have lost their minds just as much these days. Is there any way to get a sense of perspective back again as a society? Do we get back to having a modicum of discretion, realizing that you don't need to live and die on every.single.hill?

2022 orange level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpgringofhonor-obed.jpg flag link


Experience.

[2]
May 3, 2022, 12:54 PM
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All the newcomers to politics when Obama got elected thought Trump was the end of the world because all they knew was the world under Obama.

Same thing under Trump, with Biden.

At some point, you realize most changes under administrations are gradual, and you adapt to ones that are slightly more significant than normal. I'm sure there have been some significant, life-altering and near immediate examples (though I can't think of any off the top of my head except maybe a draft), but these are pretty rare.

Unfortunately, there is no panacea for experience except time.

2022 white level member flag link

hey, jimmy.


This really is a bigger issue than just politics

[4]
May 3, 2022, 1:01 PM
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Think about what ESPN looks like, as opposed to 30 years ago. Nobody was on ESPN yelling their opinions back then.

I think it's a broader thing...we're more connected, all information is more immediate. The market for attention is the most cutthroat market on earth. Therefore, to be heard you gotta say "IT'S THE WORST THING EVER" or "IT'S THE GREATEST THING EVER", and no in between.

The political arena is just where it has a lot more practical impact to our lives, than entertainment things.

I don't know the answer to your question, on how it gets better. Maybe it doesn't. How do you put the genie back in the bottle of the internet, social media, 24-hour cable news?

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I am convinced that people are largely being manipulated

[2]
May 3, 2022, 1:04 PM
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by their consumption of various media. I think cable news was out in front of all this, in terms of gradually getting more and more loud and extreme. They realized that this tickled a bone in people, led to good ratings. And it's snowballed from there.

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Agree. I'm not sure what's scarier to me,

[1]
May 3, 2022, 1:06 PM
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the amount of psychology that goes into social media platform creation, or how susceptible we as a population are to it.

2022 orange level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpgringofhonor-obed.jpg flag link


susceptible, and then apathetic.

[1]
May 3, 2022, 1:07 PM
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We know Big Social is engineering to exploit us, but we shrug it off because we like product. Smoker's dilemma.

2022 white level member flag link

hey, jimmy.


That's where you're talking about the older generation

[1]
May 3, 2022, 1:10 PM
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It really kinda makes me angry when I think about it, probably because I associate with more older people than many do. They tend to not really get the internet, and I believe they are being preyed upon. I don't think they're crazy so much as they are easily seduced by crazy, because they're used to trusting what they read and see on TV.

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I think it gets them fired up, but they still have the


May 3, 2022, 1:13 PM
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muscle memory to get along socially with someone ideologically different from them (generally speaking of course).

We got a couple generations under 30 now who have been force-fed the belief that those who share their ideology are good, and those who don't are evil. That's a dynamic not seen in this country since the civil war. We've had our ups and downs since then as a country, but I don't think we've seen this point, where too many believe there's far more that divides us than unites us.

2022 orange level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpgringofhonor-obed.jpg flag link


Re: I think gets them fired up: Education system at fault

[1]
May 3, 2022, 6:00 PM
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The American education system (historically prone to propaganda with teachers incorporating some of their own views into the classroom lessons) has gotten very bad. Even with objective subjects such as math, the teachers are injecting social ideology ... and ginning up emotions in the kids while doing so ... instead of focusing fully on the laws, theorems, and practice of mathematics.

I blame much of the hyperbolic emotionalism of America's under-35 crowd due to the failure of the USA's educational system.

It's no accident that USA corporations so frequently prefer to hire international (i.e., not educated in the USA) graduates for the STEM type jobs.

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There is a mountain of psychology to unpack around the

[1]
May 3, 2022, 10:04 PM
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root issues of what you describe as hyperbolic emotionalism that extend well beyond the classroom, but that is precisely the problem.

You could really write a thesis on this, but my theory (in ballpark form) is that the under 35-crowd (and, fwiw, I think that's a pretty good age cut-off) has this illogical need to "change the world." Because they're not finding absolution in their job, and most < 35 year-olds are not in any position in life to change the world, they find fulfillment in politics. And, they've convinced themselves that slacktivism/raising awareness/tweeting truth to power is actually changing the world, so it's a feedback loop that drives itself. The more extreme they are, the more attention they get, so they feel like they're actually making a difference. It's a lie, built on a lie, built on a lie.

Sadly, if they spent a fraction of the time they spend online yelling doing volunteer work in human services (not at an animal shelter, or on a campaign), it would help fill that void as well as put into perspective "real" problems people have.

2022 white level member flag link

hey, jimmy.


Re: There is a mountain of psychology to unpack around the

[1]
May 4, 2022, 10:47 AM
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A belated TU to you.

Beautifully summarized post, oh_its_JimmyHEYHEY®.

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Re: That's where you talk about the older generation - Bingo


May 3, 2022, 5:54 PM
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You called the balls and strikes really well with this post Mr. Prodigal.

My circle of friends and close business associates are generally in the ~ 45 - 60 year old range.

Even the ~ 45 year olds still watch some TV, and they were comfortable believing those slickly presented TV news shows.

More so with the 50+ crowd.

To suggest to these 'older' people that they more-than-occasionally being deceived, they tune out because they've got kids / grandkids to think about, and simply don't want to spend the time to corroborate the 'information' that they get from their 'trusted' sources.

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I kept hoping the thrill of social media would wear off.

[1]
May 3, 2022, 1:04 PM
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I had no idea when I originally said that it had been weaponized to be addictive through algorithms and primate sociology.

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Much of this is due to social media, in which sober nuance


May 3, 2022, 1:04 PM
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is ignored, and breathless exasperation is what gets engagement.

It trains us (one can argue biohacked, given the social engineering Socials have done on dopamine release) to be hyperbolic as a starting place when articulating ideas, and the winner is who gets the most social engagement.

Then, because we live on social, we mistake the most extreme of positions as reflective of the whole, so we persist under a constant delusion of persecution based on the absolute most farcical interpretation of political opponents.

2022 white level member flag link

hey, jimmy.


I'm regarded often as a "fence-sitter" here, and I think

[1]
May 3, 2022, 1:07 PM
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it's just because I try not to treat everything as an extreme situation. I choose to look for nuance. It's not that I don't have opinions...it's that I don't feel like yelling about it. I'd like to think my mode of operation here is more like it was for everyone a few decades ago.

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people are easily scared

[1]
May 3, 2022, 1:04 PM
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and our ancient lizard brain instincts cause us to react to fear, whether real or imagined.

This fact has been used to great effect to control our emotions and our reactions, to enslave us to ideology that we feel will best protect us by helping us make sense of the world and explain to us why we should be so passionately involved in "the cause".

You might not be aware of this, but you are under someone's controlling influence right now, and his name is Justice Samuel Anthony Alito, lol. You read his opinion, and felt strongly enough to come here and rise to the occasion in his defense. Did you not?

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defense? Nah. I was pointing out that the draft, as


May 3, 2022, 1:08 PM
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written, had something completely different behind it than "abortion bad", as you were indicating.

I want a judiciary that evaluates and decides things on their constitutional merits....it seems to me the exact opposite of judging things based on populist whims and temporary societal norms.

2022 orange level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpgringofhonor-obed.jpg flag link


True leadership.

[1]
May 3, 2022, 1:08 PM
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As opposed to partisan gladiators. It doesn't have to mean compromising away important principles or issues, it just means acknowledging all "sides" and having open dialogue without demonizing or attacking. I don't know if we have anybody that big, but that's what it will take for starters. Then hopefully we the people will tire of this ridiculous, constant division and the need to "die on every hill".

2022 purple level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpg flag link

"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
- H. L. Mencken


Leadership from whom?***


May 3, 2022, 1:09 PM
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badge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link

If you want potential names, I don't have any.


May 3, 2022, 1:12 PM
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That's what I meant when I said "I don't know if we have anybody that big". In general, we need political leaders to emerge who see the need to unite as being greater than the need to divide and win.

2022 purple level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpg flag link

"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
- H. L. Mencken


No, I really meant "what leadership"? Political?


May 3, 2022, 1:14 PM
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Spiritual? Economic?

badge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link

I'm talking about political leadership, as I thought that


May 3, 2022, 1:44 PM
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was the focus of this discussion, and it is on the Politics bored ... "In general, we need political leaders to emerge who see the need to unite as being greater than the need to divide and win."

But leadership at any level in any area would be good, if it helps us to remember that America is still great, and help us all embrace the idea that the things that bind us together as Americans are much greater and more important than the things that are dividing us.

2022 purple level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpg flag link

"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
- H. L. Mencken


I've never relied on a political leader as a moral compass


May 3, 2022, 1:46 PM
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I can't believe that many do. if so..we are in much worse shape than I thought.

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flip it around....it's modern vanity at play.


May 3, 2022, 1:48 PM
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"That leader agrees with my opinion, ergo they must be moral".

2022 orange level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpgringofhonor-obed.jpg flag link


Good for you. The right leaders with the right messages make


May 3, 2022, 2:14 PM
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a difference. Otherwise they aren't good leaders.

2022 purple level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpg flag link

"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
- H. L. Mencken


Probably can't get that in the White House anymore

[1]
May 3, 2022, 1:49 PM
Reply

To win the primary, you gotta go nutty. Sane moderates get shut out.

2022 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link

[Catahoula] used to be almost solely a PnR rascal, but now has adopted shidpoasting with a passion. -bengaline


Agreed, unfortunately, for now. I have hope it can change,


May 3, 2022, 2:40 PM
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however, and it's got to start somewhere. Problem is, somebody delivering that message doesn't serve the current power structure, which includes most media platforms as well as political parties. It's an uphill battle for sure.

2022 purple level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpg flag link

"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
- H. L. Mencken


Execute everyone on the far left and right fringes?

[4]
May 3, 2022, 1:15 PM
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If you believe Trump is a nazi or Biden is a marxist, lethal injection.

If you believe Trump won the election, firing squad.

If you believe Hillary would have been a good president, guillotine.

If you believe Biden is for open-borders, stoned to death.

If you believe the whole GOP is racist, you get sodomized to death.

2022 orange level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpgringofhonor-jospehg.jpg flag link


It's a little scary how moderate that sounds.***

[1]
May 3, 2022, 1:16 PM
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2022 orange level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpgringofhonor-obed.jpg flag link


LOL, that post was so ####.

[1]
May 3, 2022, 1:19 PM
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Solution to extremism: killing people. Somehow logical.

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"m3ta", lol***


May 3, 2022, 1:20 PM
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Muira?***


May 3, 2022, 1:24 PM
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2022 orange level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpgringofhonor-jospehg.jpg flag link


Did you just curse?***

[1]
May 3, 2022, 1:21 PM
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2022 orange level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpgringofhonor-jospehg.jpg flag link


Hey. It's a modest proposal.***

[1]
May 3, 2022, 1:21 PM
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2022 white level member flag link

hey, jimmy.


Re: Hey. It's a modest proposal.***

[1]
May 3, 2022, 9:44 PM
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+1 for you Mr. Swift

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Re: Hypothetical questions, possibly without a good answer.

[2]
May 3, 2022, 1:31 PM
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.


2022 white level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpgringofhonor-willmo.jpg flag link




Cat on a tin roof, dogs in a pile,
Nothin' left to do but smile, smile, smile!!!!


Re: Hypothetical questions, possibly without a good answer.

[2]
May 3, 2022, 1:41 PM
Reply

Legalize marijuana

2022 orange level member flag link

Now we're back to Brave New World and Soma.***

[1]
May 3, 2022, 1:43 PM
Reply



2022 orange level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpgringofhonor-obed.jpg flag link


What if--hear me out--

[1]
May 3, 2022, 1:53 PM
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And this is also a hypothetical that I realize could produce negative results...

But what if political parties were somehow made illegal in America?

No primaries. No labels. No Congressional party rules. No caucuses. No straight ticket ballots. No this guy vs. this guy and that's all you can pick.

Just people and their issues and you have to research who you're voting for?

2022 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link

[Catahoula] used to be almost solely a PnR rascal, but now has adopted shidpoasting with a passion. -bengaline


I think it would improve many things, but also have some


May 3, 2022, 2:01 PM
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disadvantages and almost assuredly some unintended consequences.

Then there's the X's and O's stuff about how to elect speaker of the house, Senate Majority Leader, etc.


Humans have a natural tendency to cluster to consolidate power, so if nothing else I think we'd end up with multiple informal clusters within Congress....it would look a lot more like Parliament, with 10 different parties which I don't want either.

2022 orange level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpgringofhonor-obed.jpg flag link


I think political parties are often the scapegoat for other


May 3, 2022, 2:06 PM
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issues that are harder to solve.

2022 white level member flag link

hey, jimmy.


Political parties...? #1 or #2 ? Give me a break. Who else?***


May 3, 2022, 10:17 PM
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2022 purple level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg flag link


I'm not sure what you're trying to say.***


May 3, 2022, 10:20 PM
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2022 white level member flag link

hey, jimmy.


Re: I think it would improve many things, but also have some


May 3, 2022, 9:49 PM
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Some of the best scrums you will ever see are in Parliament, though. "If the Right Honorable Son a Bit*** would sit down and shut the f** up I have some pertinent points to make good sirs."

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I'm pretty much done with politics

[1]
May 3, 2022, 2:32 PM
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And I'm a political science major, or was.

I don't see most of our problems as political problems. Truth is Americans WANT to see our problems as political problems, as that absolves PEOPLE from the responsibility/consequences of electing poor leaders. Therefore, I see no political solutions to them.

You can elect your biggest wet dream pub or dem, doesn't matter, nothing will change. You won't see illegal immigration ending, you won't see minimum wage increasing, you won't see the trade deficit shrinking, you won't see the debt shrinking, you won't see less spending. I don't care who you vote for, those things will NOT change. Every candidate I have ever voted for in a primary, has lost. Every. Single. One. I didn't even have a primary to vote in last election. I was literally stuck with one vote, for Donald Trump or Joe Biden. I simply left that vote blank.

So that's where I am now. Truly and sincerely DGAF. I will vote in every primary where I am allowed to vote by my restrictive state political party, but that's it. Because unless my guy wins the primary, I'm just not voting. Why bother?

2022 orange level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpgringofhonor-tiggity-110.jpg flag link

Tough times create strong men.
Strong men create easy times.
Easy times create weak men.
Weak men create tough times.


I've voted 3rd party f/Prez since John Anderson. I try.***


May 3, 2022, 10:21 PM
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2022 purple level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg flag link


Sorry, no time for this


May 3, 2022, 2:52 PM
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Gotta go kill my unborn kid.

2022 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpgringofhonor-clemsonrulez08.jpg flag link

Please forgive me, @IneligibleUser


Replies: 46  

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