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Legend [19576]
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Why is our secondary so bad?
Dec 18, 2012, 10:11 AM
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Was it Cheese? A combination? You would think a secondary who has to go up against one of the best college football WR corps in the nation (and arguably in college football history) every day would be ready to handle anything thrown at them other than WV or USC. Do our DB's and Saftey's practice vs Sammy, Nuk, Bryant, Peake etc in practice?
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Why is our secondary so bad?
Dec 18, 2012, 10:12 AM
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A lot of people will say talent, but if you watch the tape, that's not the issue.
Not being in the right spot, having crap fundamentals, not turning your head when the ball is in the air, that's coaching.
The problem is, our CBs wouldn't look nearly as bad if our safeties hadn't gotten worse over the past 3 years. I've never seen players get worse from their freshman/sophomore years to their senior years.
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Orange Blooded [2507]
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Exactly. Our safety play has been complete crap
Dec 18, 2012, 10:14 AM
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Hall and Meeks make more mistakes and look worse then our underclassmen DBs. Cheese had to go because our fundamentals went straight to crap over the year.
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Orange Blooded [2236]
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It's a mix of all the above...
Dec 18, 2012, 10:20 AM
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Bad fundamentals, unfulfilled development and more than anything lack of pressure form the D-line. It all starts up front. Unfortunately we've missed on some promising prospects IMO.
Desmond Brown - dismissed
Rickey Chaney - JUCO
Evan McKelvey - grades now at Marshall
Martin Jenkins - hurt
If we can get pressure up front our guys can cover for the most part.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: It's a mix of all the above...
Dec 18, 2012, 10:23 AM
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I agree with this, too. Pass rush is key.
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CU Medallion [67704]
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Re: Why is our secondary so bad?
Dec 18, 2012, 10:18 AM
[ in reply to Re: Why is our secondary so bad? ] |
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you said what I think and probably more eloquently. I do think this year if the pass rush could have been a little better it would have helped. How many easy ints did we flat drop. two or three the last game alone. about one or two a game otherwise.
tackling fundamentals were horrible. just bad technique. the tackling by grabbing them up around the shoulders. who does that? no one else because it doesn't work. the indifference to hitting low and wrapping up was evident.
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Scout Team [153]
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Re: For Sure,..lacking basic football instincts at the...
Dec 18, 2012, 10:25 AM
[ in reply to Re: Why is our secondary so bad? ] |
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position, as if...they all made a position change this year.??
I don't get it ?? BUT>>> A good pass rush would help tremendously.
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Orange Blooded [3788]
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Re: Why is our secondary so bad?
Dec 18, 2012, 10:19 AM
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I'm of the opinion that it's the type of player Cheese likes to recruit. He tends to go after "tweener" DBs so we end up with very few true cover corners. Instead we have a bunch of very good athletes with plenty of size to play the position, but issues with things like hip-flexibility.
Combine that with the injuries we suffered this year and the loss of Sensebaugh from last year's squad and you get what we had in the secondary this year.
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Orange Blooded [2236]
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Penthouse pretty much hit the nail on the head
Dec 18, 2012, 10:23 AM
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I'd also like to add to 74's comment...DBs today are not going to tackle low. Justin Miller was the last DB at CU to tackle low and that wasn't consistent. Those guys are smaller and they will not lower their heads. I call it the Deion Sanders effect.
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CU Guru [1639]
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Re: Why is our secondary so bad?
Dec 18, 2012, 10:47 AM
[ in reply to Re: Why is our secondary so bad? ] |
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I agree. Look at the Ath.'s we recuite instead of DB's. Plus you can look awfully good covering high school kids. When you get at this level, everone is supposed to be a star
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Team Captain [495]
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Same reason Auburn's will be.***
Dec 18, 2012, 10:22 AM
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Head Coach [781]
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I agree with the comments
Dec 18, 2012, 10:23 AM
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regarding safety play. You would expect more out of seniors, particularly where one was a Freshman AA.
I can't count the number of times our corners thought they had help when in reality the safety was well out of position. They also tended to bite on play action or underneath routes.
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Head Coach [781]
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WRT to Cheese
Dec 18, 2012, 10:25 AM
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if ti happens early it's the player. If it happens late (or to seniors) then it's coaching. At least that;s my opinion.
The problem, I think, has been solved, We'll miss Cheese's recruiting, but not his "coaching".
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Orange Blooded [3788]
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Hard for me to blame Hall
Dec 18, 2012, 10:37 AM
[ in reply to I agree with the comments ] |
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he was just never the same after his injury.
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110%er [5712]
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Lack of athleticism, poor recruiting**************
Dec 18, 2012, 10:23 AM
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Orange Blooded [2519]
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Maybe going up against our WR corps has made them so bad
Dec 18, 2012, 10:25 AM
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You play against great wr's differently than mediocre ones. They got so used to playing off and giving respect to the deep ball, that they couldn't come up cover short stuff.
Just a theory anyway.
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1st Rounder [629]
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Recruiting. Either misjudging players or not recruitng
Dec 18, 2012, 10:25 AM
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depth and/or player development.
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Rock Defender [52]
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Injuries played a part too...no way Hall was the same player
Dec 18, 2012, 10:32 AM
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after his injury...Jenkins injury didnt help either.
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110%er [5236]
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Although we played without a lot of starters this year, it
Dec 18, 2012, 10:30 AM
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came down to so many times not knowing when to look at the ball and play the ball , so frustrating to watch....and the play of the senior safeties was tough to watch ...so many blown assignments ...just basic stuff that any senior safety would know...again, frustrating to watch...our def line and linebackers got better as the season went on . , dbs, not so much
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Orange Blooded [3740]
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Good point about Chesse/ Steele recruiting tweeners
Dec 18, 2012, 10:44 AM
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Both Breeland and C. Davis came to Clemson as Safeties. Brewer started the year at Safety and has played there a ton. Also, Peters has spent a good bit of time @ Clemson at Safety. These are 4 of our top 5 guys @ CB this year. Of the scholarship guys, really D Rob and M. Jenkins are the only true Cornerbacks on the roster and Jenkins hasn't been available. The type of guys being recruited has definitely been an issue.
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Hall of Famer [22381]
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Lack of speed, talent and depth and lack of a pass rush.
Dec 18, 2012, 10:32 AM
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I wonder about the coaching of the defensive backs, but how do you know for sure?
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Orange Blooded [2507]
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The worst part is they were the only group not to improve
Dec 18, 2012, 10:33 AM
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Over the course of the year you could see our young Dl and LB corp slowly but surely making improvement. We went from not being able to get pressure and allowing any team and their grandma to run all over us. Ever since the GT game you could see us getting more and more pressure with the front four and we've stopped every team since then from running against us. We even stopped SC's run game. The problem was that they were still able to dink and dunk us up and down the field because while the front 7 got better the back four arguably got worse.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: The worst part is they were the only group not to improve
Dec 18, 2012, 10:35 AM
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There are 3 starters in the secondary who are worse now than they were 2-3 years ago.
I think that may be one reason why Cheese is gone.
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Legend [17248]
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Tigers DB do not play instinctive but not sure...
Dec 18, 2012, 11:25 AM
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whether it is caused by lack of innate player capability or coaching and development.
Dennis Rodman at 6"6" was a great athlete but had incredible rebounding instincts.
Kieth Adams was very undersized was a great tackler. Anthony Simmons was a great tackler from the time he stepped on campus.
Instinctive play comes from translating vision to recognition to athletic movement. Some players process that in a shorter time period than others. It does not necessarily mean a player is slow or stupid or the coaching is bad.
I think coaching fundementals, good practice habits and great film room preparation instill confidence and naturally shorten the processing time.
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All-TigerNet [12536]
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I think the reason is we need some coaching that
Dec 18, 2012, 11:27 AM
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specializes in pass defense. Also, when we go out recruiting, we should recruit players that not only played in the secondary, but players that played in the defensive backfield since that is where most of the passes are thrown.
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MVP [533]
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Re: Why is our secondary so bad?
Dec 18, 2012, 11:28 AM
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I think it will be good to get a few guys out this year and get some frsh blood out there. Im hoping for a better output next year.
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CU Guru [1265]
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can't cover forever...
Dec 18, 2012, 11:35 AM
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Talent on the edges is pretty bad.. Hall was a better safety a few years ago. When we offered Travis Blanks he was a lock down corner.. I wish we used him on the edges. The coaching must be pretty poor bc like one said just getting lost in coverage and not turning to look for the ball was a problem. Thats also a mixture of talent and coaching. A good CB doesn't need to be coached to do that in my opinion, should already be known... I hate seeing us Blitz bc thats when we get burnt the deepest plus we rarely see a sack off the blitz. Pressure release plays go a lot further against us then one should. Tackling has been an issue the last few years.. SO in a nutshell.. Recruiting, Talent, Scheme, and coaching have been the demise of CLemson Defense.
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Fan [65]
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Re: can't cover forever...
Dec 18, 2012, 11:45 AM
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I looked at the past recruiting classes. When was the last time we brought in a true cover corner. The pass rush is part of the problem. I think Cheese leaving maybe addition by subtraction. No disrespect intended but wow. Even if you take a sleeper player sometimes but you cant recruit safeties to play corner every year.
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CU Medallion [64519]
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It's a combination of things....
Dec 18, 2012, 12:29 PM
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A lack of talent
A lack of quality experienced depth
A lack of speed
An inability by the DL to get pressure on the QB
Coaching
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