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MVP [508]
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110%er [6928]
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Because ESPN wants him to be *
Jul 29, 2013, 1:22 PM
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nm
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MVP [508]
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Re: Because ESPN wants him to be *
Jul 29, 2013, 1:23 PM
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Should not matter... stats do not lie. It is ironic, George Rogers beat out Hugh Green that year.
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110%er [6928]
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I agree with you. Hugh was a Buccaneer..........
Jul 29, 2013, 1:26 PM
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and I'm a big Buc fan. I was being sarcastic.....but, sadly, realistic. ESPN controls sports right now!
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CU Guru [1142]
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Re: Because ESPN wants him to be *
Jul 29, 2013, 3:28 PM
[ in reply to Re: Because ESPN wants him to be * ] |
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Yeah, Rogers won that Heisman as a part of that world-wide conspiracy to just pizz-off Tiger fans! C'mon!!
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Starter [390]
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Do we really want to go there?
Jul 29, 2013, 1:27 PM
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Hugh Green had a heck of a surrounding cast. The 1980 NFL draft alone saw seven Pittsburgh defensive senior starters go in the first five rounds (28 NFL teams).
Also, bad mojo to bring up the 1980 Heisman.
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Rock Defender [53]
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So wait a minute, even considering Green had a better
Jul 29, 2013, 1:47 PM
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supporting cast around him, he still had those numbers? I'm not sure what you're saying?
Clowney does not deserve Heisman hype, nor will he sniff winning it in 2013. Let's be real instead of all the false hype based on one hit.
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Starter [390]
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That's one way to look at it...
Jul 29, 2013, 1:56 PM
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Another way to look at it is that with Hugh Green (Defensive End), Rickey Jackson (Linebacker), Greg Meisner (Defensive Tackle), Carlton Williamson (Defensive Back), Bill Neill (Defensive Tackle), Lynn Thomas (Defensive Back), Jerry Boyarsky (Defensive Tackle) it would be hard for an offense to concentrate much needed support Hugh's way without opening themselves up to the Panthers' numerous other defensive stars.
Also, those are only the seniors, should I go back and pull up the underclassmen that were being coached by Jackie Sherrill, Foge Fazio, Ron Dickerson, Bob Matey, Ray Zingler, Bob Davie and Kirk Ferentz?
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Rock Defender [53]
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So you're saying Clowney gets double-teamed or run away
Jul 29, 2013, 5:14 PM
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from more than did Hugh Green did? Come on...
Bottom line, again, Clowney is obviously very good, but as far as the Heisman - it's nothing but over-hype.
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Starter [390]
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Here's what I have time to say....
Jul 29, 2013, 5:36 PM
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I'm saying that back in those days, when premiere college programs had no scholarship limitations and would stock up on 130+ players on their roster just to keep talent away from other teams, the disparity between the have and have-nots allowed premiere starters, lining up beside ten other premiere starters would routinely obliterate the puff pastry schedules they faced and rack up un-Godly numbers.
Comparing the numbers of a true sophomore with fewer than 21 starts under his belt to a senior that lined up next to five eventual NFL Pro Bowlers in an era when the rules actively promoted a huge talent disparity, scheduling that targeted easy wins since SoS was not a factor, is a specious argument at best.
There are other factors that deserve mentioning, but I'm hungry and headed home for some supper.
Y'all be kind to one another and GO TIGERS!!
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Rock Defender [53]
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Cool, but........
Jul 29, 2013, 5:37 PM
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Clowney won't sniff a Heisman in 2013.
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Starter [390]
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Where did I say he would?
Jul 29, 2013, 4:38 PM
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Read below in the thread and you'll see he has almost no chance and that my pre-season pick would be Bridgewater.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Letterman [297]
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How about Derrick Thomas? Dude had 27 sacks in one season
Jul 29, 2013, 1:32 PM
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came in 10th in the Heisman voting.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derrick_Thomas#College_career
ESPN has decided (based on one hit) that it's time to give the Heisman to a defensive player, so that's what we're going to do.
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Starter [390]
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Other 1988 Heisman candidates included....
Jul 29, 2013, 1:43 PM
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Barry Sanders, Rodney Peete, Troy Aikman, Steve Walsh, Major Harris, Tony Mandarich, Timm Rosenbach, Deion Sanders and Anthony Thompson.
Hard to crack the two with that kind of competition as a defensive player.
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Letterman [297]
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And Primetime came in 8th.
Jul 29, 2013, 1:52 PM
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I'm just saying the hype over Clowney is ridiculous.
The man is a freak and an high-level talent, but I just want someone to explain to me what makes him different than the hundreds of talented defensive stars that played the game before him.
His stats don't support it.
Is a single hit in a bowl game really that powerful that it can change precedent?
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MVP [508]
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Re: And Primetime came in 8th.
Jul 29, 2013, 1:55 PM
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BUT seriously...look at the numbers. Green did in one year, his freshman year what Clowney has done in two years. AND I agree, look the the players that year, take a look at the NFL draft that year..it is a who's who. Plus you talk about the hit, the running back got up...did not need to be carted off the field, just knocked his helmet off.
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Starter [390]
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And we're hoping for Tajh to win the Heisman...
Jul 29, 2013, 1:59 PM
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And if a coot wanted to they could go back and cherry pick from a hundred QB's with better numbers that didn't win the Heisman.
It cuts both ways.
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Letterman [297]
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While I understand what you're saying...
Jul 29, 2013, 2:09 PM
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That's a ridiculous comparison.
QB's have won the heisman before.
Truckloads of them. Many with stats comparible to Tajh (hell, you only have to look back one year to find a winner with similar numbers)
Clowney would be the first DE ever to win the award.
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MVP [508]
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Re: And we're hoping for Tajh to win the Heisman...
Jul 29, 2013, 2:10 PM
[ in reply to And we're hoping for Tajh to win the Heisman... ] |
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What kind of argument is that. My point is stats should be a huge part of who wins. So you want me to look at current players who have better stats and are not mentioned? We are not promoting Tajh but it would be great to see him be ahead if he has a great year, of Clown-man.
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Starter [390]
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But it has to be taken in context....
Jul 29, 2013, 2:13 PM
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Who was the competition they rang the numbers up on, what were other players at similar positions doing that year, what did their team do that year, etc.
You guys are acting like the numbers can be compared without any regard for the other factors.
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Letterman [297]
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There were 4 or 5 players last year with similar sack totals.
Jul 29, 2013, 2:18 PM
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You can't argue that his hype is unprecedented.
Message was edited by: tgrfn787®
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Starter [390]
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Are you saying we live in a world of 24 hour sports hype?
Jul 29, 2013, 2:30 PM
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Say it ain't so.
The fact is the kid is the best athlete on defense I've personally seen since Jevon Kearse (15 years).
The Tigers put him in the national discussion by giving him 4.5 sacks in our house on national TV.
Will he win the Heisman? Highly doubtful, but his ability to make phenomenal athletic plays will keep his name in the discussion.
And personally, I'm hoping the Panthers (my NFL team) choke the year away and somehow land him in the draft.
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Letterman [297]
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Haha, touche
Jul 29, 2013, 2:33 PM
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I'm right there with you on the panthers though.
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Starter [390]
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While I may hate the way sports is overhyped these days....
Jul 29, 2013, 3:26 PM
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At the same time, I also hated when college football Saturdays on TV consisted of ONE lone game on ABC with Keith Jackson commentating. It was always the same teams: Southern Cal, UCLA, Washington, Notre Dame, Michigan, Ohio State, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Texas, Alabama, Georgia, Penn State and Pittsburgh.
I can't get to a lot of games in Death Valley these days due to travel distance, but I am almost guaranteed to be able to see my Tigers on TV every time they play.
The system isn't perfect, but I prefer it to the status quo with which I grew up.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Starter [390]
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The really, really sad part is....
Jul 29, 2013, 2:11 PM
[ in reply to And Primetime came in 8th. ] |
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His 4.5 sacks against Clemson, setting a record in Death Valley, vaulted Clowney into the national discussion; and the hit against Michigan allowed the momentum to carry forward for another three months.
If the Tigers do their job against Clowney, we likely aren't having the conversation about why Clowney is a Heisman candidate.
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MVP [508]
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Starter [390]
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His Freshman year?
Jul 29, 2013, 2:21 PM
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The kid wasn't even a starter until the second half of the year and their defensive front seven wasn't the strongest part of their D.
Remember, context.
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Rock Defender [53]
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"Context".........
Jul 29, 2013, 5:19 PM
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Clowney won't sniff the Heisman in 2013.
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All-TigerNet [14233]
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Clownboy is not going to win Heisman
Jul 29, 2013, 2:31 PM
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end of story.
Bridgewater
Boyd
McCarron
Manziel
Miller
are all ahead of Clownboy by a lot.
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Starter [390]
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My personal Heisman prediction...
Jul 29, 2013, 3:04 PM
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The Heisman will go to an offensive player, as it always has, with the lone exception that was the travesty of Woodson winning over Manning as a hybrid defensive/receiver/return specialist.
My personal guess is that it will go to Bridgewater from Louisville. He has the hype from their beatdown of Florida to put him in the early spotlight and the Cardinal's schedule is so pathetic that he may put up X-Box numbers for the season.
That will also likely keep his team very highly ranked throughout the season and in the national title discussion.
That would meet what I consider to be several of the key context requirements. Start the season in the discussion, have the best numbers at your position for that year and be a key component of having your team near the top of the rankings.
The only primary requirement I don't see him meeting is doing it against quality competition. But, if he puts up gaudy numbers (and he should) against the Ohio Bobcats, Eastern Kentucky Colonels, Kentucky Wildcats, Florida International Golden Panthers, Temple Owls, Rutgers Scarlet Knights, UCF Knights, USF Bulls, Connecticut Huskies, Houston Cougars, Memphis Tigers and the Cincinnati Bearcats, then he only needs one miracle win against a top caliber team to take home the hardware in a walk off.
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CU Guru [1949]
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Louisville would have to go undefeated for Bridgewater
Jul 29, 2013, 4:31 PM
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to even be in the Heisman discussion (just at they would need to be undefeated to be in the National Championship discussion). Everyone knows Louisville's schedule is a joke, and any loss they suffer will be a major blemish on his resume. A player like Boyd can slip up to an UGA or FSU, Murray can slip up against an LSU or Clemson, because that kind of loss is explainable. There are no explainable losses for Louisville.
Even if Louisville goes undefeated though, he still needs all of the other candidates' teams to lose as well because people would see the other candidates' roads as more difficult.
Bridgewater's candidacy will be very similar to the Boise State QBs of the past.
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Fan [60]
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Re: Clownboy is not going to win Heisman
Jul 29, 2013, 7:23 PM
[ in reply to Clownboy is not going to win Heisman ] |
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> end of story.
>
> Bridgewater
> Boyd
> McCarron
> Manziel
> Miller
>
> are all ahead of Clownboy by a lot.
He finished 6th in the voting last year before the hit. The only way he comes close is to have monster games against Uga Fla and clemson.
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CU Guru [1142]
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Re: Hugh Green vs Clowney
Jul 29, 2013, 3:24 PM
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I think the help Clowney got from his outings with Tajh and Vincent Smith propelled him into the national spotlight even more. We can play the stat game with him versus Deacon Jones, Hugh Green or whoever, but before he finished high school, some very highly respected major college and NFL coaches touted him as the best high school prospect in the last 30 years. Like it or not, he is for real, and he is that good. My question for the Tiger coaches is this; ya think we might scheme to block him better this November than last??
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CU Guru [1949]
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If Clowney is to have a huge year, the DE on the other side
Jul 29, 2013, 4:19 PM
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is going to have to be dominant as well....otherwise Clowney will just be double-teamed every game. DE is a position that can be contained unless the offense has to help out the OL in multiple places.
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Orange Blooded [4787]
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i kinda laughed outloud when espn was interviewing teddy
Jul 29, 2013, 4:47 PM
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bridgewater and they brought up the clowney hit. he stated matter-of-factly that ,and i'm paraphrasing, that's what happens when a lineman misses a block, and the rb is just getting the ball. i thought the interviewer was gonna cry,seriously, his jaw and lower lip started quivering. i kid you not.
Message was edited by: sgt tiger®
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All-In [38422]
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Doo Doo
Jul 29, 2013, 5:24 PM
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finished in a 5 way tie for 3rd most sacks in the country last year. He had a pedestrian 54 tackles . Until the 4.5 against Clemson he wasnt even in the top 10 in sacks.
Yeah , this just screams HEISMAN ! Let us all thank father time for putting us on this earth at the same time Doo Doo Clowney was playing cfb .
No way he wins the Heisman . Less deserving than Suh or Hugh Green.
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Orange Blooded [4787]
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remember, facts are not allowed in arguments /debates vs.
Jul 29, 2013, 5:33 PM
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usuc fans/alumni.and the 54 tackles is very pedestrian.
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All-In [38422]
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Great players come to play
Jul 29, 2013, 7:09 PM
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Nobody is saying that Doo Doo isnt a great player , but the fact that he doesnt exactly have the numbers to make for a Heisman candidate is without question. He is in a large group at all of the important numbers.
Also , when Green played the E$PN 24/7/365 spin machine couldnt latch onto him and infiltrate the country from corner to corner. Clowney is riding a hype candidacy that is unequaled in the history of cfb.
Is my point.
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Connoisseur [364]
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Re: Hugh Green vs Clowney
Jul 29, 2013, 7:15 PM
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Green had 13 sacks as a sophomore and 11 as a Junior. Clowney had 14 as a Sophomore.
I fail to see much of a difference between the two. Obviously Clowney is expected to top what he did last year and he only gets into contention if he gets into the 18-20 range.
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MVP [533]
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Re: Hugh Green vs Clowney
Jul 29, 2013, 7:17 PM
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The more you talk about doo doo. The more the ##### love it. Just sayin.
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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Because ESPN says so. Tyrann Mathieu was an average….
Jul 29, 2013, 7:36 PM
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corner, and ESPN promoted him so much that they got him in the top 4. Clowney is good, but he isn't a complete player yet. He needs to vastly improve on run defense, to get anywhere close to the hype he gets.
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Fan [94]
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Re: Because ESPN says so. Tyrann Mathieu was an average….
Jul 29, 2013, 9:54 PM
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"He needs to vastly improve on run defense, to get anywhere close to the hype he gets. "
That is a the biggest misconception about clowneys game, that he doesnt play the run very well.
However, Clowney lead the nation in tackles for loss last season. He is far from a one trick pony.
He is the real deal, some people need to get over that, recognize his game and talent are rare and stop looking foolish trying to prove other wise.
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Scout Team [158]
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Re: Hugh Green vs Clowney
Jul 29, 2013, 8:50 PM
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Clowney has unbelievable talent. He can be as good as he wants to be. But he does take plays off sometimes. That is something he needs to work on. When he goes all out he may be the best ever.
Having said that, I don't think he will win the Hiesman.
vs. Hugh Green is hard to do. A different ERA, but Hugh was great.
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