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Rock Defender [52]
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How Much Has Football Really Improved ?
Jun 9, 2012, 2:54 PM
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Dabo's record vs top 25 teams is not very good much as TB was not very good against good teams. That is why in addition to the eye test, Dabo's teams do not look much different than TBs. As I have said many times, I expect Dabo will win his fair share of ACC titles. I think he recruits well enough that we will continue to out athlete most if not all ACC teams year in and year out. At some point just winning the ACC will not be enough, especially if the conference continues to struggle overall and remains the 5th best overall. It will start to be like winning at the DII level and then we can all go home and watch big boy football on TV. Danny Ford lost to inferior teams but he also beat enough ranked teams on the schedule and did so regularly so we were respected and a feared opponent. Those teams from the Ford era could be playing today's Alabama and most Clemson fans would expect us to win because you knew we could play with anybody. As good as last year's Clemson team was, do you really think we could have stayed on the field with Bama ? Our line would have looked like it was on skates. He77 we couldn't even stay on the field with scar. Fast paced offenses and weak defense is not the way to play with the big boys. Maybe BV will make the defense better but how many spread teams have you ever seen that had a kick #### defense ? Personally I don't like the idea of having to score 35-40 points to win. I think we can win 9-10 games on a regular basis with what we are building but have serious doubts that a "we'll outscore you in a shootout" mentality will ever consistently improve our record agaisnt top 25 teams.
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Rock Defender [53]
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FAIL...
Jun 9, 2012, 2:58 PM
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This is progress:
With the most true and RS freshmen in the entire country:
1) We won 10 games for the first time in 21 years.
2) We had the most conference wins in 28 years.
3) We were division champions for the 2nd time in three seasons.
4) We were the ACC Champions for the first time in 20 years.
5) We posted our first 7-0 home record in school history.
6) We went to a major bowl for the first time in 30 years.
7) We were 1 of only 3 BCS schools to improve from a losing season in 2010 to a 10-win season in 2011.
8) We won first eight games of the season. It was only the 4th time we've ever done that.
9) When we became bowl eligible on October 7th, it was the the earliest we've ever been bowl eligible.
10) We tied for 3rd in the entire country by beating four top 25 teams.
11) We had the most top 25 wins in school history.
12) We were the first ACC school ever to beat ranked teams in 3 consecutive games.
13) When we beat 3rd ranked VT in the ACCCG, it tied the highest ranked team we've ever beaten.
14) We reached #5 in the BCS poll. Our highest ranking in the BCS poll ever.
15) We were ranked in the BCS standings for 8 straight weeks.
16) We finished 15th in BCS ranking on December 4, tied for our best final BCS ranking in history.
17) We came back from 14 points or more down to win 3 games, the most ever. We've only come back from that margin 9 other times in history.
18) We came back from 18 down at Maryland, it was the 2nd biggest comeback in Clemson history.
19) We ended the nation’s longest winning streak when we beat Auburn for the first time since 1951.
20) When we beat 10th ranked Virginia Tech at Blacksburg, it was the largest margin of victory over a ranked team on the road in school history.
21) We set a school record by scoring in 22 consecutive quarters.
22) We finished with 6,171 yards of total offense, 3rd most in ACC history.
23) We had 33 TD passes as a team, 4th most in ACC history.
24) We had 3,952 passing yards, 4th most in ACC history.
25) We scored 470 points, 7th most in ACC history.
26) We set school records for passing yards, total offense, and points scored.
27) We had two first-team AP All-Americans for the first time, ever.
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Orange Blooded [4988]
TigerPulse: 100%
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How can Blue Caddy enter this discussion if you're going to
Jun 9, 2012, 3:08 PM
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use facts and numbers? Not fair to him at all!
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CU Guru [1098]
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Joined: 11/10/10
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I was thinking the same thing... those poor dumpers
Jun 9, 2012, 3:25 PM
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what will they do?!.....Yo hoW bout the Bucs?!!! 10 of the last 13 I love it! oh yeah!.... GO TIGERS!!!
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Orange Blooded [4988]
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Joined: 2/27/02
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Bucs are playing great ball right now, love to see it.
Jun 9, 2012, 8:12 PM
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If only they can trade a couple arms for a bat in the OF and 1B and I think they could contend in the central. Don't know how long their pitching can hold without hitting. Cutch, Grilli, Hammer, JMac are all potential all stars. I'm sure politics will prevent all from making it, but numbers wise it'd be tough to pick other guys in front of them!
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Hall of Famer [22711]
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That's awesome Stanley, where'd you get all that info?***
Jun 9, 2012, 3:13 PM
[ in reply to FAIL... ] |
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Rock Defender [53]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
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Some dude named...
Jun 9, 2012, 3:15 PM
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Tim Bourret helped me 
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Rock Defender [52]
TigerPulse: 44%
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Re: FAIL...
Jun 9, 2012, 3:20 PM
[ in reply to FAIL... ] |
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Agree that is an impressive list of accomplishments. But at the end of the day, statistics mean very little. I agree that last year's team did some really good things. I guess my concern is that when you are getting dominated by a 2 win MD team, struggling to beat an inferior Wake team and so forth that we are a long way from being a truly good football team. Starting 8-0 does not mean anything unless you can finish. We lost 4 of our last 6. Yes we won the ACC and that was a definite improvement at least in getting over a mental hurdle if nothing else. Hopefully it will set the tone for more titles. I just disappointed that we are still very much as finesse team vs a physical team that can dominate in the trenches. I do not really see that changing much going forward but hope I am wrong. Great skill players and a hurry up scheme on offense are great and definitely exciting to watch, but we all saw how well that approach played out in the '08 game vs Bama. I guess the truth is that I disagree fundamentally with the type of football that we play and do not believe our approach will win anything other than the ACC. Hope I am proven wrong.
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Rock Defender [53]
TigerPulse: 90%
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Joined: 11/30/98
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WRONG.
Jun 9, 2012, 3:28 PM
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Saying these "statistics mean very little" is incorrect. You may want read them again, and reconsider based on the rarity of the occurrences.
The bottom line is those accomplishments FAR outweigh all of your contrived gripes. And clearly we're only just getting started.
I do agree with one thing though - we need to get tougher in order to move to the next set of accomplishments. Good thing our coaches realize the same thing.
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110%er [6768]
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A win is a win. Every team in NCAA football has close games
Jun 9, 2012, 4:59 PM
[ in reply to Re: FAIL... ] |
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sometimes against teams that they should easily beat. All that matters in the end is that you won the game. Bama didn't win all of their games impressively last year, and the year before last, Auburn squeaked out a couple of wins, and were getting trounced by Bama until Newton went nuts and turned the tide.
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110%er [6881]
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And we got embarrassed by NCSU, USuCk (3rd straight)....
Jun 9, 2012, 4:14 PM
[ in reply to FAIL... ] |
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and WVU. Long way to go to be feared again.
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Addict [415]
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Um, no. FAIL = 70-33.***
Jun 9, 2012, 4:22 PM
[ in reply to FAIL... ] |
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All-TigerNet [14488]
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It amazes me...
Jun 9, 2012, 3:11 PM
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How often Clemson fans continue to doubt everything even after a season like that. Its like half of our fan base refuses to accept the fact that we're on the rise and is bent on being disappointed year after year.
Wake up and get with the picture! Clemson's comin!
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110%er [6881]
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we'll see.***
Jun 9, 2012, 4:15 PM
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Addict [415]
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Joined: 4/1/05
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Wow, so you were not disappointed with 70-33?***
Jun 9, 2012, 4:24 PM
[ in reply to It amazes me... ] |
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110%er [5330]
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You act like that's the only game we played last year***
Jun 9, 2012, 11:49 PM
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Orange Blooded [4787]
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Orange Blooded [4787]
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Joined: 6/12/10
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Re: How Much Has Football Really Improved ?
Jun 9, 2012, 3:15 PM
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the thing is we are getting better every year. as someone posted earlier, we still have not recovered 100% from the "we want 260 lb linemen who can move" era, which i think has hurt us more than anything else. we are getting bigger and better o-lineman with every cycle, and that is the key, when we(not if we) get our full compliment of those young men, we will claim our rightful spot in the elite programs category.clemson has never been an o-line football factory, and that has got to change.we need o-linemen to go pro from clemson on a regular basis, the rest will take care of itself.
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All-Conference [406]
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Joined: 6/3/12
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We are one play better than TB teams, but thats all we...
Jun 9, 2012, 4:48 PM
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needed was that one more play though.
TB wouldve beaten WF, NCST, and USuC, but wouldve lost a close game to Auburn, at Mary, and another somewhere else.
There are things that Dabo teams do that TB teams didnt, like win the division. There are also things that TB teams did that Dabo teams dont, like beat USuC and stay in almost every game.
Last year was celebrated by a lot of fans, yet we lost as many games last year by more than 7pts as TB teams did his last 4 years combined: From the 6th game in '04 to the 6th game in '08. The last 4 years of his tenure, it was very rare that you walked away from a game where a TB team played and said "we just got beat by more than one score". We've done that with Dabo teams 7 times in 3 years.
Im not knocking Dabo or TB, Im just saying that it depends on your perspective as to whether we've gotten better. You could argue that TB teams were more consistent and stayed in every game. But you can also say that Dabo teams have more games where they play better than TB teams did, yet they can look a lot uglier than TB teams, too.
I persoanlly think we're one play better than we used to be. TB was very consistent, but couldnt get us that one more win that always came down to one play. Dabo has gotten us that one more win in 2 of the last 3 years. If Dabo can get the guys to play at a high level more consistently and not get blown out in 4 games again, I think we're in for something very special.
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Orange Blooded [2303]
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Re: How Much Has Football Really Improved ?
Jun 9, 2012, 4:52 PM
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This is DUMB.
Bowden couldn't even win the DIVISION.
Dabo has won it twice in three years and won the ACC title with a really young team.
Please stop this foolishness.
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All-Conference [406]
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In all fairness though, TB did play in an ACC that was...
Jun 9, 2012, 4:57 PM
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better than what we play in now. I do think an argument can be made that Clemson has remained the same while the rest of the ACC has just gotten worse. Our non-conference record can show that. We beat UK in a bowl, but lost to USF and got sluaghtered by WVU. We've been embarrassed by USuC three straight years. If we were improving at the rate that some fans want to think we are, then we would atleast put up a fight with USuC and WVU. However, I still think TB wouldve found a way to lose the division every year bc he just couldnt get over the hump. Im not advocating for TB. Dabo is better for Clemson than TB was, but Im not sure we're improving at the rate everyone says we are.
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Rock Defender [52]
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Re: In all fairness though, TB did play in an ACC that was...
Jun 9, 2012, 6:51 PM
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That is all I am really trying to say. Let's pump the brakes a little on being quite so giddy and giving Dabo a job for life. Yes we are did some things that were long overdue and Dabo deserves credit. But before we act like we are back and Dabo is here forever, let's see how the next couple of years play out. If Dabo is as good as I hope he is, we'll continue to make progress, get tougher, be more physical, better on defense etc. And yes, Dabo says we need to be tougher, more physical etc.....but I really have not seen any real change there. It is easy to say the right things and Dabo is smart enough to know what fans want to hear. Let's all hope we see evidence of those things on the field this year and then we will be well on our way to something special.
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