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All-In [44028]
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In case you are curious what we spend on basketball at Clemson
Jan 13, 2022, 11:14 PM
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We spend $7.9 million annually on our men’s basketball program. That includes coaches’ salaries, recruiting expenses, game day expenses, etc.
Spoiler alert: that isn’t very much.
Some other ACC schools’ annual men’s basketball expenditures for comparison:
Duke $19.9 million
University of Louisville $19.8 million
Syracuse University $14 million
University of Virginia $11.2 million
Florida State $10.5 million
Virginia Tech $10.3 million
Pittsburgh $10 million
NC State $9.8 million
University of Miami $9.2 million
Wake Forest $9.1 million
Boston College $7.0 million
Even Wake Forest and Miami are spending more than we are on men’s basketball.
Also, here are a few “football schools” that often get mentioned here as examples of what we can/should be in basketball:
Auburn University $11.8 million
University of Tennessee Knoxville $10.5 million
University of Alabama $9.4 million
All three spend much more than we do on men’s basketball.
You can look up data for any team you wish here:
https://ope.ed.gov/athletics/#/
Here is an article from a few years ago regarding the correlation between money spent on basketball and winning:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidching/2018/03/07/ncaa-tournaments-biggest-spenders-usually-rank-among-its-biggest-winners-too/
If you want to see our basketball program have more success, this info should make you angry. We simply don’t spend enough on our program to expect significant and consistent success. If we want to win more, we must give our program more of what it needs.
If you expect Brownell or any other coach to win big here despite the fact that we go cheap when it comes to funding basketball, you’re simply not understanding how this works or you have extremely unrealistic expectations.
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All-In [48223]
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Re: In case you are curious what we spend on basketball at Clemson
Jan 13, 2022, 11:28 PM
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But what is Brad asking for that would help us? What's needed besides coaches salaries... Which have been discussed frequently. It's not like we're losing coaches because of money.
What's not pointed out in your argument is 22 of the top 50 spenders failed to make the tourney. That's roughly half. So that tells me it's not a direct correlation. It also points out that a lot of teams that spend less than us, frequent the tourney.
It also points out that a lot of schools spend money for brand recognition. The Paw is one of if not the most recognized brand. In that case, both Monte and Brad should be at an advantage since our FB has made us a nationally recognized brand. They should be winning on the coattales of Dabo.
So why aren't we? Now, if you want to make the case we fire Brad and staff and spend 12 million to buy a Rick Barnes staff, I'm all in as would many Clemson alum. Do you want to do that?
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Freshman [-79]
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What I don't get is, the guy says we have good coaches
Jan 14, 2022, 12:42 AM
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but then he also says we don't have good coaches.... because apparently we don't pay them enough.
Which is it?
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CU Medallion [57052]
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Re: What I don't get is, the guy says we have good coaches
Jan 14, 2022, 1:26 AM
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Apparently he means we have sucky assistant coaches, because cheapo.
I see no reason why basketball at Clemson shouldn’t be spending as much on basketball as it brings in. If Clemson MBB makes say $10 million a year but we only spend $7.whatever million on MBB, that’s a problem. Surely football makes enough to cover all the other men’s and women’s sports.
I would kind of be interested in seeing how much we spend vs. other schools per win just to see if we are getting a steal with the Bradster or not.
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CU Guru [1344]
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Re: What I don't get is, the guy says we have good coaches
Jan 14, 2022, 7:29 AM
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We don’t win due to spending more.
If that was the case we would rarely make the top 25 in football.
We need the right coach with the right program, the money will follow.
We need the right coach! Barnes was our last real winner.
Our new AD better find a new coach.
Just like with Dabo, the AD has to find a young guy with the fire for winning.
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All-In [44028]
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No one is saying that spending more is a guarantee
Jan 14, 2022, 10:57 AM
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of success.
There will obviously be outliers on both sides.
But generally speaking, programs that spend more on a sport are better at it.
Spending more on basketball at Clemson is especially important since we already have to overcome the reputation we've earned for not being a basketball school.
Why wouldn't we want to give our program everything we can for it to be successful?!?
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Orange Blooded [4974]
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Re: No one is saying that spending more is a guarantee
Jan 14, 2022, 4:34 PM
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I know you won't answer me but on what do you think the extra dollars should be spent?
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110%er [5482]
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Re: No one is saying that spending more is a guarantee
Jan 14, 2022, 5:10 PM
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Spending all of the money in the world will not make CBB a better coach.
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CU Medallion [52219]
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Re: No one is saying that spending more is a guarantee
Jan 15, 2022, 2:19 AM
[ in reply to No one is saying that spending more is a guarantee ] |
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Several years ago, I posted that more money is needed for assistants. We can do better. Languishing at the bottom financially is not a good look.
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All-In [44028]
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Based on the link I shared in my original post
Jan 14, 2022, 10:54 AM
[ in reply to Re: What I don't get is, the guy says we have good coaches ] |
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Clemson's revenue from men's basketball is $9,308,562.
Since we spend $7,937,279 on men's basketball, that gives us a net profit of $1,371,283.
So you would be good with us spending that extra $1.3 million a year on men's basketball?
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Heisman Winner [139930]
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Where will the 1.3 that men's basketball puts back into...
Jan 14, 2022, 11:02 AM
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the athletic department be replaced from?
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All-In [44028]
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That's not my decision to make.
Jan 14, 2022, 11:09 AM
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That's a better question for tiger_swimmer® since he is advocating for all of that profit to go back into the basketball program.
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CU Medallion [57052]
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If it gets rid of Brad and gets us a better coach, sure.
Jan 14, 2022, 11:24 AM
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Just don’t give that loser more money.
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All-In [44028]
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You keep talking about Brownell's salary
Jan 14, 2022, 11:28 AM
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but I haven't seen anyone say that he should be paid more right now, myself included.
I think he's paid fairly at this point.
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Freshman [-79]
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So you're saying Brad's assistants suck? The players suck?
Jan 14, 2022, 1:37 PM
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Because that's what you're saying.
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All-In [44028]
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I didn't say that anyone sucks.
Jan 14, 2022, 4:01 PM
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Please read better.
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Freshman [-79]
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You said we don't have good assistant coaches and players
Jan 14, 2022, 4:53 PM
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by virtue of saying we don't pay enough money to have good assistants, and you're saying our players aren't good enough because we don't spend enough money in recruiting.
You are absolutely throwing the assistant coaches and players under the bus. You're saying that's why we don't play and win in the tournament.
Double checking... yep, that's what you said.
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Heisman Winner [139930]
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None of these decisions are ours to make...
Jan 14, 2022, 11:46 AM
[ in reply to That's not my decision to make. ] |
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and I'm not trying to be difficult here, but if we're asking this question; "So you would be good with us spending that extra $1.3 million a year on men's basketball?", I think it's fair to ask where the money will come from. If I'm an AD and I see a $1.3 million profit from men's basketball, and I look at Alabama (they've been used as an example of a football school that invests in basketball) and see a $61,000 profit in basketball, it doesn't make much sense for me to increase my men's basketball budget by millions so I can profit less. So we have to determine which is more important, wins and losses or profitability? And when the cash cow, football, is already behind the SEC and Big10 in revenue, asking them to give up even more to other sports is a tall order. If the decision is financial, and history suggests it is, and we decide not to increase basketball expenditures, we have to decide are we getting the biggest possible return on investment with the staff we have or is there someone out there who could potentially do more with the same resources. I don't know the answer to that, and unfortunately no one will know the answer until several years after the AD makes the decision. I don't envy the AD's position.
https://www.al.com/alabamafootball/2020/01/alabama-athletics-lost-money-in-2019-but-it-comes-with-a-catch.html
https://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissmith/2019/09/12/college-football-most-valuable-clemson-texas-am/?sh=2c35ddfca2e7
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All-In [44028]
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I think that's a fair question.
Jan 14, 2022, 4:08 PM
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The rub is that we have finite financial resources, and funding men's basketball at a more appropriate (higher) level will mean taking money from something else.
We can probably spend less when it comes to football and not skip a beat, but I don't expect Clemson's athletic department to ever do that since football is king.
So assuming we remain one of the lowest funded basketball programs in the ACC, the question is: do we realize that we are getting a great return on investment with Brownell and stick with him, or do we get another coach and hope that he can win big within our budget constraints?
I will end with this: if we aren't going to fund basketball better, then expecting more success than we have had the last few years seems ludicrous and completely out of touch with reality.
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CU Guru [1895]
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BC just beat us with a former Tiger Asst and less basketball budget.***
Jan 15, 2022, 9:29 PM
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All-TigerNet [10822]
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All-In [44028]
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I think we have good assistant coaches
Jan 14, 2022, 10:50 AM
[ in reply to What I don't get is, the guy says we have good coaches ] |
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for the money we pay them.
To use a football example, Billy Napier was a good coach for what we paid him. But we saw a big uptick in the quality of our offensive coaching when Dabo was given a larger budget to hire Chad Morris.
The assistants we have are good men who know a lot of basketball and recruit hard. But it seems obvious to me that paying for a higher caliber of assistant coach would increase our chances of having top 25-30 recruiting classes more consistently. That's our biggest issue right now.
I hope this clears things up.
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Freshman [-79]
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So you're saying Brad's assistants suck an the players suck?
Jan 14, 2022, 1:38 PM
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Because that's what you're saying.
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Orange Blooded [4974]
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All-In [44028]
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I'm not saying that spending more money is a guarantee
Jan 14, 2022, 10:48 AM
[ in reply to Re: In case you are curious what we spend on basketball at Clemson ] |
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of success in men's basketball.
But if we truly want to be successful, shouldn't we do all that we can to stack the odds in our favor?
As I have mentioned before, we currently pay our assistant basketball coaches below the national average. Given 350 division I men's basketball teams, that means that at least 175 programs pay their assistants more than we do. Doesn't that bother you?
Brad seems to have an eye for finding good coaches. I think he's made great hires given the relatively low budget he has been given for that purpose. But of course it would be nice to know that our budget for assistant coaches is in the top 25 or even top 50. That would tell me that Clemson is serious about getting better coaches and better recruiters on staff.
Logic dictates that since Brad already overachieves here relative to Clemson's support of the program, he would very likely continue to provide outstanding value if we were to spend more on the program.
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110%er [9685]
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Wrong.
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Jan 14, 2022, 10:55 AM
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Brad is who he is.
He’s an average coach, and no amount of money will ever change that.
We could spend trillions of dollars, and we’d still get “we just didn’t make open shots.”
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All-In [44028]
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LOL, you can't just say "Wrong."
Jan 14, 2022, 10:59 AM
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I've shown you multiple examples of how Brad overachieves relative to our paltry investment in men's basketball at Clemson.
You haven't shown me any actual examples to support your statement.
You shared your opinions.
As the saying goes, you're entitled to your own opinions, but you aren't entitled to your own facts.
Do better, or kindly stop posting about this.
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110%er [9685]
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You also made an assumption
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Jan 14, 2022, 11:10 AM
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that he would ALWAYS overachieve relative to any amount of money spent, and you have absolutely nothing to back that up.
He’s a mid-major kind of coach. I would bet that no amount of money can change that.
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All-In [44028]
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No, I made a prediction based on data.
Jan 14, 2022, 11:11 AM
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You made a prediction based on zero data.
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110%er [9685]
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I think 12 years of data is plenty.
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Jan 14, 2022, 11:18 AM
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We know exactly what kind of coach Brad is.
Your “data” is your imagination of what could happen if a pile of money appears and unicorns start flying around us.
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All-In [44028]
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So you don't think context matters?
Jan 14, 2022, 11:19 AM
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You don't think 12 years of data should be viewed through the lens of the support Clemson men's basketball receives from the university?
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110%er [9685]
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No. I believe Brad would still be an average coach.
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Jan 14, 2022, 11:22 AM
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More money will not magically make him a different kind of leader.
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All-In [44028]
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Okay, so what is that belief based on?
Jan 14, 2022, 11:28 AM
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(this is where you show us some data to support your opinion)
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110%er [9685]
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Here’s my data:
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Jan 14, 2022, 11:42 AM
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1. What my eyes have seen and ears have heard for 12 years.
2. The excitement I have seen around Clemson basketball with multiple past coaches.
So tell us…What would Brad be able to do with more money?
(This is where you show your data. Hint: His average results to this point are not acceptable data.)
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All-In [44028]
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So you have nothing, just as I expected.***
Jan 14, 2022, 4:11 PM
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Freshman [-79]
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Orange Blooded [4974]
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Re: LOL, you can't just say "Wrong."
Jan 14, 2022, 4:51 PM
[ in reply to LOL, you can't just say "Wrong." ] |
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I agree that Brad is an overachiever based on his pay but I think he has hit his personal ceiling. Only the addition of better assistants over the current group can raise the ceiling for him.
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Orange Blooded [4974]
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Re: Wrong.
Jan 14, 2022, 4:45 PM
[ in reply to Wrong. ] |
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That's what I think. Coach Brownell can only have more success if he can hire better assistants and just be a CEO type coach like Dabo is.
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Orange Blooded [4974]
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Commissioner [976]
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We’ll be sure to find a coach who is okay
Jan 13, 2022, 11:38 PM
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starting out with that budget and then having it increase dramatically as we have success consistently. Similarly to how we did with Dabo.
Appreciate the info. Now go clean out your desk and polish off the ole resume.
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110%er [6153]
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There is no hoops version of “Dabo” waiting for Clemson
Jan 14, 2022, 12:12 AM
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Dabo knew what could be done at Clemson in football because he’d seen actual proof.
The only proof a great young coach sees in Clemson basketball is a history of coaches who quit and coaches who fail.
Money will not buy Clemson a great basketball program.
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Commissioner [976]
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I just don’t buy that some great young coach
Jan 14, 2022, 12:32 AM
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Will get a call from Neff and immediately wiki our program to check and see how successful other coaches have been. They’ll think “that place is great, has other great athletic programs, great place to raise a family, give coaches a really long leash before judging them. Sure, I’ll interview.” Then let Neff SHOW them the type of future plans we can put together if we are successful.
But no matter what, this garbage will not do. It’s over for Brownlee, and we’re at least going to try to get a good coach. It’s time to stop giving up and just saying we don’t deserve better than missing the tournament 75% of the time and literally never making noise in the league, ever.
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110%er [6153]
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I admire your optimism. It’s the privilege of the young.
Jan 14, 2022, 10:20 AM
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Most Clemson fans with any sense of reality gave up when Rick Barnes quit on us.
Sure Oliver Purnell fanned the embers a bit after that, but once again all the temporary glitter was fools gold.
Many of us are just too old and have seen too much to believe things will ever change very much in basketball at Clemson.
I sincerely hope you’re right. I’m not opposed to going with a coaching change at this point. I just have no confidence that it will do any good.
I’ll sit back and go along for the ride in hoops while spending all my emotional capital on football, where there is a potential payoff.
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Commissioner [976]
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Fair and reasonable point
Jan 14, 2022, 10:46 AM
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is fair and reasonable.
I’ll settle for games being watchable again. That would be a refreshing change.
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All-In [44028]
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If you don't find our basketball games watchable
Jan 14, 2022, 11:03 AM
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you just aren't really a basketball fan.
Maybe sticking to football is more your speed?
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Commissioner [976]
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Nah, I watched almost every game Purnell coached
Jan 14, 2022, 11:07 AM
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And watch college basketball regularly. After 12 years our offense is:
1. A motion offense that is completely disorganized
2. A coach who sucks shouting “move” 80 times a possession.
3. Throwing up 3s and hoping we hit enough to win
Do you need boxes? Or are we providing those for you?
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110%er [9685]
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Well said, Wes.
1
Jan 14, 2022, 11:50 AM
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You don’t need a photographic memory to break down Brad’s teams.
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Freshman [-79]
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A humongous number of Clemson BASKETBALL fans are
Jan 14, 2022, 1:42 PM
[ in reply to If you don't find our basketball games watchable ] |
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turned off by Brad's style of play. We've seen multiple times how LJ fills up with good basketball.
You're wrong.
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110%er [6136]
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It’ll be the same thing with the next guy, probably less
Jan 14, 2022, 11:48 PM
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money spent in a new set of coaches.
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Freshman [-79]
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All-In [44028]
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110%er [9685]
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Maybe if it includes a head coaching change.
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Jan 14, 2022, 11:52 AM
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Otherwise…total waste. Put it into expanding the softball stadium.
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Freshman [-79]
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All-In [44028]
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I disagree. Coaches want to coach somewhere that
Jan 14, 2022, 11:01 AM
[ in reply to There is no hoops version of “Dabo” waiting for Clemson ] |
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prioritizes their sport. They want to have most if not all of the things their peers have at their disposal.
Clemson has earned a reputation for being a football school, at the exclusion of basketball. Coaches know this. Recruits are told this. We have a huge uphill battle to climb, and in my opinion, we have to invest more in our basketball program to overcome this.
Money doesn't guarantee success, but it sure increases the chances of it.
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Commissioner [976]
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Yea yea yea
Jan 14, 2022, 11:08 AM
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It’s so awful here. Best of luck at your next stop.
We’ll be fine.
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Freshman [-79]
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110%er [6153]
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Judge, I will not disputed that in any way. Clemson is ...
Jan 14, 2022, 4:12 PM
[ in reply to I disagree. Coaches want to coach somewhere that ] |
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what Clemson is ...
And while spending large sums of money guarantees nothing, Clemson is unlikely to test that idea.
Honestly, if Clemson were the type of school where a winning basketball program was actually a high priority, then a coach like Brad Brownell would never have been hired in the first place and certainly would not have kept the job for over a decade.
Brad Brownell became our coach and remains our coach mostly because Clemson does *not* place a high priority in n basketball.
Never has and probably will not in the future.
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Hall of Famer [21722]
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Re: In case you are curious what we spend on basketball at Clemson
Jan 14, 2022, 12:17 AM
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~JKB
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All-In [46565]
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Re: In case you are curious what we spend on basketball at Clemson
Jan 14, 2022, 12:44 AM
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Money in basketball doesn’t = success for sure with as many small schools that make it in the tournament every season.
Power 5 teams maybe but the mid-majors are spending much less & their facilities are much less....
We can win with what we are spending. Are you saying we should offer another coach more money?
I was always taught you work as if your working for God no matter what you are making & the money will come as you have success because of your drive & experience whether your working at McDonald’s/U of SC or a classy job at Clemson!
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All-In [44028]
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It sounds like you don't have a problem with Clemson
Jan 14, 2022, 11:05 AM
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being near the bottom of the conference in basketball spending.
Why is that? Do you not want us to provide our program as much as we can to increase its chances of being successful?
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Freshman [-79]
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Commissioner [976]
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But but but
Jan 14, 2022, 11:32 AM
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Brad’s salary ranks 51st. So surely we should be 51 or higher since Judge says he always “overachieves”.
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110%er [5009]
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Re: In case you are curious what we spend on basketball at Clemson
Jan 14, 2022, 1:08 AM
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Something tells me we could cut that money in half or double the amount being spent and the result would be the same. If you can’t get a read on a guy after 11 or 12 years, then that’s on the A.D.
The program, in my opinion, lacks any enthusiasm or positive movements to take a next step. What we are now is about where you’ll always be under Brad. Not horrible, not good, just peddling along with no real destination.
I’m sure the A.D. recently hired was a Dabo hire, however i do hope he does something to energize our baseball and basketball programs.
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All-TigerNet [10904]
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Why do you say Neff was a "Dabo hire"? He came to Clemson in
Jan 14, 2022, 4:08 AM
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2013 as an assistant AD, way before Dabo had the influence he does now!
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110%er [5009]
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Re: Why do you say Neff was a "Dabo hire"? He came to Clemson in
Jan 14, 2022, 4:53 AM
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I’m making the assumption that Neff and Dabo had a very good relationship while he was associate A.D. and that Dabo supported the decision to promote him as opposed to looking outside. Not saying good or bad, just my opinion of what may have transpired.
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CU Guru [1778]
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Re: In case you are curious what we spend on basketball at Clemson
Jan 14, 2022, 2:29 AM
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If we were better and there was more interest bringing in more money, this would be an issue. The problem is Brad can’t connect with fans and slightly above artificially low expectations isn’t cutting it for the average fan anymore.
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All-In [44028]
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A few questions for you.
Jan 14, 2022, 11:15 AM
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1. You still seem to expect us to be better, despite knowing that we fund basketball less than almost all ACC schools. What is that standard based on?
2. You said that the expectations for our men's basketball program are artificially low. What is that belief based on?
3. Why do you think Brad can't connect with fans? How is he supposed to do that?
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Freshman [-79]
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110%er [6513]
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Re: In case you are curious what we spend on basketball at Clemson
Jan 14, 2022, 5:38 AM
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Louisville is throwing money out with the trash. What a waste
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110%er [6692]
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Re: In case you are curious what we spend on basketball at Clemson
Jan 14, 2022, 5:48 AM
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We're close enough to Miami. That's cool. Miami is 1st in the ACC. 13-4
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All-In [44028]
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The same Miami team that has finished 11th, 10th, and 13th
Jan 14, 2022, 11:21 AM
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in the ACC the last three years.
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Freshman [-79]
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Legend [17606]
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Re: In case you are curious what we spend on basketball at Clemson
Jan 14, 2022, 5:54 AM
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Looks like we're paying for what we get. Win more games and pay the coaches more. It's called pay for performance.
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All-In [44028]
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We are actually getting an outstanding return on investment.
Jan 14, 2022, 11:21 AM
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Based on what we spend, we should be in the bottom third of the ACC every year.
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Freshman [-79]
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Legend [16902]
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All-TigerNet [11470]
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Why don't be constructive and send this to the AD...
Jan 14, 2022, 6:04 AM
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And see how they respond? It might be that accurate...
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110%er [5394]
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Re: In case you are curious what we spend on basketball at Clemson
Jan 14, 2022, 6:39 AM
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Thank you for the numbers. Put coaches salaries aside for a minute. How much more does MBB need to be competitive? What will the money buy? I mentioned on here before that IPTAY donors want the best for Clemson athletes. I have never read that CBB has asked the CUAD for something for his players and has been turned down. If Brad needs something for his players, he needs to be vocal. He will have support, myself included.
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All-In [48223]
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Re: In case you are curious what we spend on basketball at Clemson
Jan 14, 2022, 7:15 AM
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Your question gets asked by all. But we never get a response.
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Legend [19664]
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Which is exactly why many consider JK a troll
Jan 14, 2022, 7:26 AM
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Money has been his/her argument for years now, but never is there any insight as to where any extra money would be spent.
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All-TigerNet [11470]
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How do we know how accurate those numbers are?
Jan 14, 2022, 7:31 AM
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Maybe the last year before those numbers across the country were put together, things have changed.
For instance we have the largest indoor scoreboard in the coliseum? How does that adjust the accurate numbers?
Again, ask the AD?
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All-In [44028]
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You don't trust the U.S. Department of Education website
Jan 14, 2022, 11:32 AM
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for accurate numbers?
It sounds like you just don't want to believe what you're reading.
As they say, ignorance is bliss.
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Freshman [-79]
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What about the multitude of teams who spend less than us
Jan 14, 2022, 1:49 PM
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but win way more than us?
One side of your mouth says we have good coaches and players while the other side of your mouth say we don't have good enough coaches or players.
How many times must this be pointed out to you?
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All-In [44028]
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How many ACC schools spend less than us and win more?***
Jan 14, 2022, 4:13 PM
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Freshman [-79]
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We have two tournament wins (excluding the play-in win)
Jan 14, 2022, 5:10 PM
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in 12 years.
Would you like to put that up against the ACC and nation versus money?
Your argument is illogical in so many ways.
You said we need more money for better coaches and better facilities, which would attract players good enough to make NCAA tournaments and win games.
That's verifiably false. You are saying our assistants aren't coaching subpar players well enough on one hand, but then you say our program is doing well on the other.
Bottom line is that we ARE NOT doing well compared to teams spending more AND teams spending less or even much less.
We dump millions and millions and millions of dollars into our basketball program and have every single thing needed to win more consistently - except coaching. Dumping more millions of dollars into the program will not increase the coaches ability to coach.
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Freshman [-79]
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110%er [9685]
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All-In [44028]
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I have answered this multiple times.
Jan 14, 2022, 11:33 AM
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We need to spend more money on:
-Assistant coaches (we shouldn't be below the national average for division I assistant coach pay)
-Continued facility upgrades (minor tweaks here and there as we go, nothing major at this point)
-Additional staff to help with recruiting (research, social media, marketing, etc.)
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All-In [44028]
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Your response is unfair. I have answered this many times.
Jan 14, 2022, 11:31 AM
[ in reply to Which is exactly why many consider JK a troll ] |
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We need to spend more money on:
-Assistant coaches (we shouldn't be below the national average for division I assistant coach pay)
-Continued facility upgrades (minor tweaks here and there as we go, nothing major at this point)
-Additional staff to help with recruiting (research, social media, marketing, etc.)
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Freshman [-79]
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Our bad assistant coaches, our crappy (sarcasm) facilities
Jan 14, 2022, 1:52 PM
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and our bad players are the reason we hardly ever make the tournament let alone win once in it? Gotcha.
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110%er [5394]
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Re: Your response is unfair. I have answered this many times.
Jan 14, 2022, 2:17 PM
[ in reply to Your response is unfair. I have answered this many times. ] |
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Judge, has CBB met with the new AD to address these needs? My expectation would be that he should be able to hire the assistants that he wants. He should also be able to have MBB with competitive recruiting and marketing staff. As far as recruiting research, how is that supposed to be setup?
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All-In [44028]
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I've answered this many times.
Jan 14, 2022, 11:31 AM
[ in reply to Re: In case you are curious what we spend on basketball at Clemson ] |
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We need to spend more money on:
-Assistant coaches (we shouldn't be below the national average for division I assistant coach pay)
-Continued facility upgrades (minor tweaks here and there as we go, nothing major at this point)
-Additional staff to help with recruiting (research, social media, marketing, etc.)
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All-In [44028]
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Thank you for your post.
Jan 14, 2022, 11:27 AM
[ in reply to Re: In case you are curious what we spend on basketball at Clemson ] |
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Brad had to scratch and claw for the facility upgrades. It was originally supposed to be a new arena, but was changed to a renovation of the arena, plus the new practice facility. Brad met with a lot of donors and raised a significant portion of the funding himself.
He also spent years asking for more money for assistant coaches and support staff. He finally got that, and part of that agreement was him restructuring his contract so that some of that money could be diverted to staff salaries.
To the administration's credit, the recent facility upgrades were unprecedented for Clemson basketball in terms of the amount spent. They were much needed. Since then, we have seen our recruiting improve and our wins increase. So it was a good investment all the way around.
We just need more of it. The recent locker upgrades were a nice touch. We need to be a leader in facility upgrades, rather than a follower. We can't let 10, 15, or 20 years go by before addressing them again (which has been our pattern in the past).
Additional funding to help with recruiting is always needed, whether it be additional staff to help with recruiting, more social media help, marketing, etc.
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Freshman [-79]
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Brad has BEAUTIFUL facilities and a great support staff.
Jan 14, 2022, 1:54 PM
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And there's nothing wrong with our assistants or players. The problem is coaching, obviously.
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All-TigerNet [10134]
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Re: In case you are curious what we spend on basketball at Clemson
Jan 14, 2022, 7:29 AM
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Based on productivity, that is about 6 million too much! Our football program is struggling right now!
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All-In [44028]
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LOL***
Jan 14, 2022, 11:33 AM
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Legend [19610]
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Coach K's salary is our entire budget. If we had a
Jan 14, 2022, 7:54 AM
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basketball coach that was worth 8 million per season I'm sure our budget would reflect that.
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All-In [44028]
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You do know that this is about way more than
Jan 14, 2022, 11:34 AM
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what the head coach makes, right?
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Freshman [-79]
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Yeah, our assistants and players suck.
Jan 14, 2022, 1:54 PM
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Because that's what your saying.
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110%er [9685]
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Don’t care.
1
Jan 14, 2022, 10:28 AM
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Show me a series of games that don’t suck to watch.
That would not cost more money.
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All-In [44028]
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You don't seem to get it.
Jan 14, 2022, 11:35 AM
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And I'm tired of trying to explain it to you.
If you don't think financial input matters, then why are we spending so much on football?
Would you be okay cutting the football budget?
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Freshman [-79]
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Freshman [-79]
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Rock Defender [71]
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Re: In case you are curious what we spend on basketball at Clemson
Jan 14, 2022, 10:32 AM
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That’s probably about twice what Furman spends and Furman is likely better right now. No way to know since CU won’t play them.
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All-In [44028]
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LOL that's cute.***
Jan 14, 2022, 11:37 AM
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Freshman [-79]
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What about Drake?
Jan 14, 2022, 1:59 PM
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Dom they buy better assistants, players, and better facilities? What about all the other schools that spend way less but do way better?
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Orange Blooded [3959]
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Re: In case you are curious what we spend on basketball at Clemson
Jan 14, 2022, 10:37 AM
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It’s been 11 years. Don’t care what we spend. Time to move on and get a fresh start with someone else. I don’t think if we spent Duke money that he could recruit his way out of a paper bag.
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All-In [44028]
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Let me make sure I understand what you're saying.
Jan 14, 2022, 11:40 AM
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You don't think it matters what we spend on basketball.
You don't think providing more and better resources for our program over the last 12 years could've changed the results.
You are done with Brownell, and nothing he can do will change your mind.
Is that accurate?
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Freshman [-79]
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Rock Defender [71]
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Re: Let me make sure I understand what you're saying.
Jan 14, 2022, 2:17 PM
[ in reply to Let me make sure I understand what you're saying. ] |
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Spending is great, but it isn’t everything. I guess you think this is a silly comparison but the entire Student Services budget at Furman is $26M. That includes an athletics budget of probably about $20M. The B’ball coach probably makes something like $500K tops. He wins 71% while your guy wins 58%. On a good night Furman could beat Clemson. By season’s end we’ll probably be ranked ahead of them. So it does kinda seem like you’re not getting your money’s worth. (Not a coot. Just a Furman alum who grew up rooting for CU).
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Freshman [-79]
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All-In [28361]
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Re: In case you are curious what we spend on basketball at Clemson
Jan 14, 2022, 10:52 AM
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Legend [16240]
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Deer current Clemson basketball players,
Jan 14, 2022, 11:14 AM
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If we spent more money on our program we would have better talent on the court than you all can muster up. Face it, you aren't good enough to win ballgames that matter, but it's our fault as fans for not providing enough financial support to get better players than you, so don't take it personally. I mean, Coach B can only do so much with the level of talent that we allow him to recruit. Good luck in life.
Sincerely,
Judge K
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Team Captain [462]
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How much does Wichita state spend?***
Jan 14, 2022, 11:49 AM
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CU Guru [1639]
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Re: In case you are curious what we spend on basketball at Clemson
Jan 14, 2022, 11:58 AM
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How does this fit in with NIL? Would we better to put the money in an NIL fund and just pay the players to come? I am kind of thinking facilities are not that important anymore…. But open to hear your thoughts. Seems to me if we spent on coaching salary and NIL that would be best bang for buck.
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Orange Blooded [4035]
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Two distinctly different issues - money and coach
Jan 14, 2022, 4:03 PM
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The issues should be mutually exclusive.
Is our coach taking us anywhere? Has he proven his ability to build a winning program on the rise? Has he energized the fan base?
My answer to that is an absolute - no.
So move on. Quit trying to make excuses, reasons, money, etc. 12 years to prove you can build a program is enough.
Now, the money.
There probably is a correlation to money and elite.
But, I support bringing in someone (like Dabo) and by that, I mean financially. Dabo proved it and then the money came. Bring an energy, a dynamic newcomer who builds relationships with the students, enjoys his time, energizes the team, puts oxygen back in littlejohn- and then add money with purpose.
2 different decisions.
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Oculus Spirit [90819]
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This proves it: We are getting our monies worth and not a $
Jan 14, 2022, 5:59 PM
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MORE! ??
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Orange Blooded [4035]
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Re: This proves it: We are getting our monies worth and not a $
Jan 14, 2022, 9:28 PM
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Strange comment.
Thru my business years I would tell each engineer, director, manager, VP that I hired - that I expected them to save at least 4 times their salary per year.
Simply breaking even with a coach after 12 years is not getting their money’s worth. Total loss of opportunity cost.
Find someone to build a program. As they prosper - like Dabo - they bring more money in and the pot gets bigger. When people don’t sit in the seats, students don’t come, and the excitement is gone - clearly Clemson is NOT getting their money’s worth. If it were a business - I would hope that a change would have been made long ago. Breaking even is not a goal.
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CU Guru [1932]
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Re: In case you are curious what we spend on basketball at Clemson
Jan 14, 2022, 9:36 PM
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The financial warfare going on with football expansion and TV contracts plays in here. I understand y'all want to win in everything but I'm not sure that is in the cards. I think Clemson has rightfully gone all in for football. Football takes all we have and to me basketball is just something we do because we have to.
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All-In [43653]
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Troll game dont stop
Jan 14, 2022, 9:47 PM
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Brownell. OUT.
The program is ####. Someone needs to make the program not ####.
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Head Coach [752]
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Joined: 3/15/17
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Re: In case you are curious what we spend on basketball at Clemson
Jan 15, 2022, 9:19 PM
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This aged well…
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110%er [9685]
TigerPulse: 69%
Posts: 9396
Joined: 1/18/17
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Nah, he’ll still stand by it.
1
Jan 15, 2022, 9:21 PM
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Blew a 23-point lead because the program doesn’t have enough money.
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Replies: 121
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