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Replies: 112
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Legend [18790]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12820
Joined: 11/30/95
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How did the offense get so bad?
Nov 19, 2022, 11:13 AM
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It's not just DJ its the whole #### thing. I will put in order of importance the issues in my opinion.
1. OC
2. WR
3. OL
4. Recruiting misses
5. QB
6. Balance of transfers versus portal recruiting
What do you guys think? Two years in the near bottom half of the country in offensive production, there are issues like it or not.
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Orange Blooded [3427]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 2019
Joined: 1/1/07
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I think you’re spot on***
Nov 19, 2022, 11:16 AM
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Legend [18790]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12820
Joined: 11/30/95
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If you're going to TD, at least have the courage to make...
Nov 19, 2022, 11:17 AM
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counter point. We have some real snowflake fans on TNET, I swear. I still think there staffer friends or people tied to the program on TNET.
Unless you're a complete idiot, you realize it's not going to hurt my pulse.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 64974
Joined: 2/25/06
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I do not TD, but that might be an upgrade/suggestion...
Nov 19, 2022, 11:24 AM
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https://www.tigernet.com/clemson-forum/site-Feedback-and-Suggestions-102 Feature suggestions and feedback on the website.
Perhaps the TD button becomes available only with a direct, messaged response? Spit-ballin' of course...
I've no pony in this race, but are you HIV positive all of your nearing 2,000 TDs have included a reasoned response?
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Legend [18790]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12820
Joined: 11/30/95
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Re: I do not TD, but that might be an upgrade/suggestion...
Nov 19, 2022, 12:17 PM
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2000 TDs? Conservative estimate IMHO, but I wear it like a badge of armor. You get at least one if you bring up anything even mildly interesting.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 64974
Joined: 2/25/06
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"all of your nearing 2,000 TDs" are those you've issued...
Nov 19, 2022, 12:47 PM
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not received. Is there a way to tell how many TDs a poster has received?
There is a way to show how ~many a poster has given...
The information in the Orange box is provided by hovering the mouse over your pulse =
Votes Cast: [# you have]: (%TU / %TD)
As of my first reply, you'd cast 8,384 total votes @ a .22 TD rate or ~ 1,844 total TDs, your TDs.
Just checked again and you've now cast 8,395 votes, rate of TDs unchanged, so ~ 1,847 TDs.
You've been here a long time, surprised you did not know this?
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Legend [18790]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12820
Joined: 11/30/95
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Hahaha! Me too!! Thanks for showing me that.
Nov 19, 2022, 12:51 PM
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I doubt I will look again, though. =)
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All-American [557]
TigerPulse: 84%
Posts: 6246
Joined: 8/30/14
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Freshman [-79]
TigerPulse: 66%
Posts: 4600
Joined: 12/21/21
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Legend [18790]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12820
Joined: 11/30/95
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LOL.
Nov 19, 2022, 12:29 PM
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How does one get a 60% pulse, hard work, huh?
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Freshman [-79]
TigerPulse: 66%
Posts: 4600
Joined: 12/21/21
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So that and a TD is your reply. Seems snowflakish. In fact,
Nov 19, 2022, 12:50 PM
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didn't you just say snowflakes TD people? Maybe you got confused, sir?
I have a 68% pulse because of one guy. I won't mention his username, but he has over 12,500 TDs. He's given ~ TEN TDs a day for coming up on 4 years. He's literally TDed most of my posts since I joined here and that's why it's 68%.
Rest assured, sir, if you recently joined and didn't inherit a ton of pre-TD points, then you'd be in a similar position.
No biggie. Point is, you called out snowflakes for TDing when you made your concerted effort to (incorrectly) trash the entire offense. And like a snowflake, according to you, you TDed me.
These are just the facts. No hard feelings and no need to launch into a hissy fit.
Take care. GO TIGERS!
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Legend [18790]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12820
Joined: 11/30/95
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hahaha
Nov 19, 2022, 12:57 PM
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Dude, go be with your family or friend. Go Tigers.
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Oculus Spirit [76952]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 28602
Joined: 12/1/18
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Don't get Stanley'd.
Nov 19, 2022, 12:58 PM
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TD every post his Scok's make. He's so obsessed it's hilarious.
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Legend [18790]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12820
Joined: 11/30/95
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Strange guy
Nov 19, 2022, 1:02 PM
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Never knew of this poster until today. He thinks he has a 68% pulse because of one guy, weirdo.
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Oculus Spirit [76952]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 28602
Joined: 12/1/18
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Stanley gonna Stanley.
Nov 19, 2022, 1:05 PM
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He'll get banned again and come back with the same nonsense under another stupid username. The dork thinks he's fooling people, ?
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Freshman [-79]
TigerPulse: 66%
Posts: 4600
Joined: 12/21/21
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The only poster in this discussion who's been banned is you.
Nov 19, 2022, 1:12 PM
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I've never been banned, and certainly was never banned for using (3) "scoks" to self-vote.
Such an obsessed, miserable boo-hole. Did this stanley fella steal your wife and dog, or what?
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Oculus Spirit [76952]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 28602
Joined: 12/1/18
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Um Kay PeppaTiger.***
Nov 19, 2022, 1:23 PM
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Freshman [-79]
TigerPulse: 66%
Posts: 4600
Joined: 12/21/21
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LOL. You need help man. Seriously. Nobody knows what the
Nov 19, 2022, 1:27 PM
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you're talking about with your evident insanity.
Would you like me to list the handles you were using to self-vote before getting banned and absolutely begging the mods to let you back on? Try to stay on point, nutcase.
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Oculus Spirit [76952]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 28602
Joined: 12/1/18
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Go for it Stanley, lol.
Nov 19, 2022, 1:30 PM
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T-net loves a good list.
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Freshman [-79]
TigerPulse: 66%
Posts: 4600
Joined: 12/21/21
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You're lost.
Nov 19, 2022, 1:09 PM
[ in reply to Strange guy ] |
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And you're speaking to the "guy". He makes no bone about his "miserable boo-hole" life of incessant TDing. I mean geez, Bubba, he just admitted it.
And my gosh man, all I did was point out the fallacy of whining about everything on offense, and yeah, I pointed out you're calling TDers snowflakes in the midst of TDing people. It's not "strange" to point that out, but sorry for hurting your feelings.
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Oculus Spirit [76952]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 28602
Joined: 12/1/18
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You gonna cry Stanley?***
Nov 19, 2022, 1:24 PM
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Freshman [-79]
TigerPulse: 66%
Posts: 4600
Joined: 12/21/21
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Talk about irony... "obsessed" LOL
Nov 19, 2022, 1:05 PM
[ in reply to Don't get Stanley'd. ] |
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You love you some stanley. It's genuinely strange how obsessed you are with some ghost.
"Only miserable boo-holes TD people"
- Bloodbeorange, circa 2022.
Yep, you need therapy.
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Oculus Spirit [76952]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 28602
Joined: 12/1/18
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God you slurp bait like a bass on a pond, Stan Stan.
Nov 19, 2022, 1:07 PM
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?
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Freshman [-79]
TigerPulse: 66%
Posts: 4600
Joined: 12/21/21
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Says the obsessed miserable boo-hole who's
Nov 19, 2022, 1:15 PM
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been banned for using self-voting "scoks".
Your hilarious projection is getting you nowhere. I'm sorry your obsession, stan-stan, stole your wife and dog, but that's not my fault, you miserable boo-hole you. LOL.
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Oculus Spirit [76952]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 28602
Joined: 12/1/18
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So cringe, bro.
Nov 19, 2022, 1:32 PM
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Lol. How embarrassing.
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Freshman [-79]
TigerPulse: 66%
Posts: 4600
Joined: 12/21/21
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Lol, you have an odd imagination.
Nov 19, 2022, 1:02 PM
[ in reply to hahaha ] |
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It would have been cool if you owned up to your irony, but I guess you're too stubborn.
By the way, how is it you're currently acting as a social butterfly while posting on Tigernet, but then you somehow imagine another person is sitting alone in a cave?
It's all good. Obviously you don't have a legitimate reply.
Go Tigers! Hopefully we don't have any fans ignorantly calling out players as busts in the middle of the game (cough, ahem, cough).
Take care man.
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All-In [44048]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 32965
Joined: 2/22/03
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Freshman [-79]
TigerPulse: 66%
Posts: 4600
Joined: 12/21/21
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Is it far worse to be a weaselly troll?
Nov 19, 2022, 12:56 PM
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My vote is yes. It's sad how some people live everyday of their lives and go out of their way to troll the most successful program in Clemson University history.
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Legend [18790]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12820
Joined: 11/30/95
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Lighten up Stanley, LOL.***
Nov 19, 2022, 1:17 PM
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Oculus Spirit [76952]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 28602
Joined: 12/1/18
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Never will you see a troll get so emotional about being
Nov 19, 2022, 1:27 PM
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called out for being a troll. Just wait till she starts T-mailing you, whining and slobbering like a fool,
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Legend [18790]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12820
Joined: 11/30/95
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OMG, please tell me he/she/it won't do that.
Nov 19, 2022, 1:28 PM
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Is there a "completely block" feature?
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Oculus Spirit [76952]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 28602
Joined: 12/1/18
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I'll forward you some, lol. They are hilarious.***
Nov 19, 2022, 1:37 PM
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Freshman [-79]
TigerPulse: 66%
Posts: 4600
Joined: 12/21/21
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Please do. You've been asked to post them on the site.***
Nov 19, 2022, 2:03 PM
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Oculus Spirit [76952]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 28602
Joined: 12/1/18
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No, snack shack asked me to post a tmail to the mods
Nov 19, 2022, 2:06 PM
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try to keep up.
PBT already knows you're a liar.
One t-mail, ?
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Freshman [-79]
TigerPulse: 66%
Posts: 4600
Joined: 12/21/21
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I've sent you one tmail, you pathetic boob.
Nov 19, 2022, 2:02 PM
[ in reply to Never will you see a troll get so emotional about being ] |
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Please show examples of me "trolling".
In exchange, I'll show you examples of you voting for yourself and being a "miserable boo-hole" with 12.5k TDs. Whoever has the most legitimate examples wins, and the loser (aka YOU), will self-ban. Deal?
You project well, bbo. Just too delusional to see it.
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Freshman [-79]
TigerPulse: 66%
Posts: 4600
Joined: 12/21/21
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You sure told him, snowflake!
Nov 19, 2022, 1:29 PM
[ in reply to Lighten up Stanley, LOL.*** ] |
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Nice work admitting you got FUBARed.
Which Clemson Tiger player are you going to call out as bust during the game today?
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Legend [16908]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 10770
Joined: 1/25/07
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110%er [7114]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 7324
Joined: 11/30/98
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I was saying the same thing years ago
Nov 19, 2022, 12:48 PM
[ in reply to If you're going to TD, at least have the courage to make... ] |
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It doesn’t work. Sadly, most of the people on TigerNet today don’t really want to talk football; they’re just here to get the TUs for their virtue signaling by criticizing anyone who dares to bring up points like the OP did, and what they caught at Lake Greenwood this morning.
Make a substantive refuting point, or shove that TD where the sun don’t shine.
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Legend [18790]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12820
Joined: 11/30/95
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Simple lack of critical thinking skills.
Nov 19, 2022, 1:19 PM
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Clicking a button is easy. Putting a thought together is more arduous.
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All-In [29036]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 36097
Joined: 8/28/00
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Freshman [-79]
TigerPulse: 66%
Posts: 4600
Joined: 12/21/21
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Exactly. And then he TDed me for pointing that out.
Nov 19, 2022, 12:54 PM
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Makes tons of sense.
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All-In [44048]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 32965
Joined: 2/22/03
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He didn’t say it hurt his feelings or ruined his day.
Nov 19, 2022, 1:03 PM
[ in reply to I didn’t TD you… but oh, the irony ] |
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He just said that it’s childish, and I agree with him.
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Legend [18790]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12820
Joined: 11/30/95
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It's useless Judge. If you're not a cheerleader
Nov 19, 2022, 1:45 PM
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You won't make those types happy.
They really don't want an honest discussion, not in their bubbles.
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All-In [44048]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 32965
Joined: 2/22/03
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You’re right. They are uncomfortable outside their echo chamber.***
Nov 19, 2022, 2:04 PM
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All-In [29036]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 36097
Joined: 8/28/00
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Y’all sure are reading a lot into my post
Nov 19, 2022, 2:30 PM
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1) I’m cool with anyone having any opinions or criticism. That’s fine and while I may occasionally disagree I’m cool with discussion and debate. Clemson ain’t perfect, I’m under no false illusions it is.
2) I never “took up for” or “backed up” anyone here. Just pointing out the irony of complaining about folks expressing their disagreement with you and categorizing it as them being a snowflake.
3) don’t know Stanley, don’t t-mail folks
But y’all carry on
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Legend [16908]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 10770
Joined: 1/25/07
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Re: It's useless Judge. If you're not a cheerleader
Nov 19, 2022, 2:35 PM
[ in reply to It's useless Judge. If you're not a cheerleader ] |
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The guy with 100% pulse is complaining to the guy with a 93% pulse about TDs. I give out TDs but never for a difference of opinion. I give them out for people who spam OPs that say the same thing over and over and disingenuous trolls. So I’ve given you relatively few if any and A LOT to JK, before he ignored me.
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Legend [18790]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12820
Joined: 11/30/95
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Look at Stanley's big bro sticking up for him.
Nov 19, 2022, 1:40 PM
[ in reply to I didn’t TD you… but oh, the irony ] |
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This Stanley dude is on me like white on rice all of a sudden. Can you talk to your friend and tell him to please put me on ignore?
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Oculus Spirit [76952]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 28602
Joined: 12/1/18
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110%er [7992]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 10452
Joined: 11/28/03
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Re: How did the offense get so bad?
Nov 19, 2022, 11:20 AM
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The most important position on the field is the QB so it starts there. As an example look at NE after Brady left. When TB12 was there their coaching staff was considered the best in the NFL. Brady left and all of a sudden the staff sucks. CTE is a great guy but an average coach IMO. He won two NC’s but had great talent. Streeter IMO is a better OC than TE yet he has struggled. You do the math.
QB
Recruiting misses
The list starts and ends there
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Legend [18790]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12820
Joined: 11/30/95
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You really think that's it?
Nov 19, 2022, 11:21 AM
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WR is ok, in your opinion? The play calling is good? I respect your opinion of course, but you're happy with those?
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All-In [26009]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 20644
Joined: 7/31/07
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Re: You really think that's it?
Nov 19, 2022, 11:28 AM
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Someone made a good point yesterday. Most portal players are leaving because of lack of playing time. They won't make a starter at most schools unless they are going to smaller schools or ones with a less of an athletic program. So the portal does not help everyone. I heard on one of the ESPN shows that USuC will rely heavily on the portal because their recruiting alone will not do it.
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CU Guru [1123]
TigerPulse: 98%
Posts: 1429
Joined: 2/5/10
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Re: You really think that's it?
Nov 19, 2022, 12:12 PM
[ in reply to You really think that's it? ] |
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He said recruiting misses. A lot of highly ranked guys in wr room haven’t worked out, or transferred. Same thing
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Freshman [-79]
TigerPulse: 66%
Posts: 4600
Joined: 12/21/21
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Do you think a TL or DW would make them look better?
Nov 19, 2022, 12:25 PM
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The answer is: obviously.
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Orange Blooded [2698]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 1823
Joined: 6/30/13
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Re: How did the offense get so bad?
Nov 19, 2022, 2:03 PM
[ in reply to Re: How did the offense get so bad? ] |
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The most important position on the field is the QB so it starts there. As an example look at NE after Brady left. When TB12 was there their coaching staff was considered the best in the NFL. Brady left and all of a sudden the staff sucks. CTE is a great guy but an average coach IMO. He won two NC’s but had great talent. Streeter IMO is a better OC than TE yet he has struggled. You do the math.
QB
Recruiting misses
The list starts and ends there
I mean, yes and no.
IMO if you look at the year before Brady left, you could clearly see a drop in what we came to expect from the Brady/Belichick combo -- the drop was coming, I mean, almost 20 years of high level play has to eventually drop.
Brady chose to go to another team with playmakers + him being motivated to prove he could go win another SB elsewhere = perfect storm where the Bucs put it together for a great year that resulted in a SB win.
Much easier to go to a better situation (Brady) than to rebuild like the Pats had to do. Regardless, they played well off of each other and I don't think they reach the same level of success without each other.
As for Clemson, TL16s last season is probably the perfect example of what would be happening now if QB play was better. We'd most likely roll the regular season and, like his last two CFP games, have mixed results because of talent in other positions (OL, WR).
Think back to those last CFP games TL16 played:
1. Buckeyes -- TL16 and ETN helped will the team to victory after a rough start.
This was the game we started noticing the WRs were struggling to get separation due to the physical play of OSUs defense.
2. LSU -- Quick start where Tigers get a double digit lead followed by the defense succumbing to LSUs GOAT offense.
Similar to the last game, WRs struggled to get open (though the running game was actually efficient). But this time, TL and co couldn't engineer a comeback like in the previous game.
3. Buckeyes - 2021
We mostly roll through the COVID season except for an OT loss at ND due to players (TL16, Tyler Davis) being out.
Thump ND in the ACC Championship but come playoff time, get our tails kicked due to.... everyone struggling + those Buckeyes probably playing lights out...and this was with TL16 and ETN.
IMO it's just a unfortunate perfect storm where talent level is down, new coach growing pains, and inconsistent QB play.
TLDR; a combination of things -- not just QB but the inconsistent play at that position doesn't help.
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110%er [6858]
TigerPulse: 95%
Posts: 6499
Joined: 10/7/07
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I would put qb at 2 and shuffle everything else down from there
Nov 19, 2022, 11:28 AM
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Obviously our play calling and scheme is a disaster, coaching of the wrs is a mess. But to think we just utterly and completely missed on all those guys seems pretty unlikely. DJ has decision issues, read issues, accuracy issues, touch issues, and he is slow as molasses in January.
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Orange Blooded [4784]
TigerPulse: 99%
Posts: 4824
Joined: 1/8/19
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Re: How did the offense get so bad?
Nov 19, 2022, 11:29 AM
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Our offensive regression started prior to the last two seasons IMO. May not have been as obvious just looking at the stats but TL and ETN elevated what was an otherwise pedestrian offense their last season. Once they left we suddenly had one of the worst offenses in the country last season and, this year, we are supposed to get excited and scream "playoffs" about our improved still but very mediocre offense full of underperforming players.
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110%er [6858]
TigerPulse: 95%
Posts: 6499
Joined: 10/7/07
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100% correct
Nov 19, 2022, 11:33 AM
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But I caught most of my TDs for saying this over the last several years.
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Freshman [-79]
TigerPulse: 66%
Posts: 4600
Joined: 12/21/21
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So getting 527 yards per game in 2018 is a huge difference
Nov 19, 2022, 2:14 PM
[ in reply to Re: How did the offense get so bad? ] |
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from 529 in 2019? It actually went up, when we were the 5th best offense in America and made the National Championship game. Is 503 per game and 10th nationally in 2020 really a huge regression? I mean geez man, 2020 was the most productive passing season in Clemson history!
The struggles of the most important position on the field was why 2021 dropped down. Insert a TL or DW, and there's no dropoff.
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Orange Blooded [3568]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 2974
Joined: 6/24/11
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Re: How did the offense get so bad?
Nov 19, 2022, 11:32 AM
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1.Recruiting non scheme fits
2 QB
3.OC
4.Wr
5.OL
Jmo. I think they create problems for each other in order.
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Legend [18790]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12820
Joined: 11/30/95
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True. They all effect each other but which would bring the..
Nov 19, 2022, 12:19 PM
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best improvement if you upgraded it now?
OC is the obvious answer with 50+ teams with less talent and better offenses than us.
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Scout Team [161]
TigerPulse: 93%
Posts: 179
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54 in total offense 32 in total defense
Nov 19, 2022, 11:39 AM
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not horrible but not great.
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Legend [18790]
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Really?
Nov 19, 2022, 12:20 PM
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Quite the low bar in my opinion. Not bad for mid-tier ACC teams, but us?
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Freshman [-79]
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9-1 and #9... lowbar?***
Nov 19, 2022, 1:30 PM
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Legend [16908]
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Re: 9-1 and #9... lowbar?***
Nov 19, 2022, 2:43 PM
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4th in ELO rankings which have zero preconception bias. Consensus #9 in the Massey composite of dozens of computer polls. Yeah, we suck. Fire everyone.
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110%er [6858]
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All-In [44048]
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Also bad considering the elite talent we have.
Nov 19, 2022, 1:05 PM
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Yet for many people here, our coaches are poor victims of talent that just hasn’t panned out.
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Legend [18790]
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Both things. But don't bring it up.
Nov 19, 2022, 1:22 PM
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You'll be called a coot or troll by the simple-minded if you do.
If you're lucky you'll get one of two responses to virtually any observation that's not glowing.
1. Dabo won 2 Natties.
2. We are 9-1.
Or some version of those anyway.
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Freshman [-79]
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Again, it's "simple-minded" to just chuck EVERYTHING and
Nov 19, 2022, 2:20 PM
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EVERYONE under the bus without any real facts, knowledge, or understanding of what's really going on. Your spitball whining is what's simple-minded bud.
And two, is it simple-minded to call people snowflakes for TDing, meanwhile you're TDing? Seems pretty simple-minded to me.
And three, I'll ask again, how does a team become 9-1 and ranked #9 with such a "terrible offense"? Is it sheer luck? Or is it tremendous adjustments by the coaching staff.
Even a "simple-minded" person should be able to understand the simple logic here, but alas someone seems to failing.
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Freshman [-79]
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We currently have a 26th ranked SOS and SOS is a huge factor
Nov 19, 2022, 2:32 PM
[ in reply to Those are, in fact, horrible rankings ] |
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in the CFP rankings, where in case you haven't heard, we're 9th.
I think you're losing sight of some key points here.
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All-TigerNet [13889]
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Re: How did the offense get so bad?
Nov 19, 2022, 11:59 AM
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Really good questions.
1. QB = recruiting miss IMO. while qb isn't the only issue, it's the biggest; IMO If you can't run the RPO correctly and fast, then a big whiff on the OC not changing the offense to aid
2. OC. see above
3. OL has been an issue, however there has been improvement this year.
4. WR while not the stellar wrs we've had in the past, we do have two really good TEs. again, see OC for not utilizing these weapons more.
My two cents. LOL
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Orange Blooded [3615]
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Re: How did the offense get so bad?
Nov 19, 2022, 12:06 PM
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Recruiting and OC not being as elite as we want it.
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Legend [18790]
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At WR just misses, RB recruiting has fallen off a cliff but
Nov 19, 2022, 12:22 PM
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we have decent backs now so that can't be it.
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Freshman [-79]
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Other than ETN, please cite all these great RBs.
Nov 19, 2022, 1:58 PM
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Man oh man, some of you guys will just say whatever gripe comes to mind, regardless of how legitimate.
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Orange Blooded [4035]
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Re: Other than ETN, please cite all these great RBs.
Nov 19, 2022, 2:20 PM
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Exactly correct.
No fact that will support.
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110%er [6446]
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Re: How did the offense get so bad?
Nov 19, 2022, 12:12 PM
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QB and Play Calling seem to go hand in hand to me.
DJ has obvious issues reading the field and stares downfield too long. So, have Dabo and Streeter simplified, dumbed down the offense because of DJ?
Or are Dabo and Streeter just too conservative, and handicapping the entire offense?
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Legend [18790]
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DJ isn't in the bottom half of starting QBs in the country..
Nov 19, 2022, 12:22 PM
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though, can't be.
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Freshman [-79]
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It all starts with QB.
Nov 19, 2022, 12:20 PM
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Nothing you listed does well when the QB is dysfunctional.
The very fact we're 9-1 with a dysfunctional QB speaks volumes about the OC's ability to adjust.
I honestly don't see issues with anything on that list other than the most important position on the field.
Saban said it eloquently last week. "Sometimes it comes down to execution". When you struggle from the most important position on the field, it greatly limits the complexity of the offensive scheme. It greatly limits the other players tasked with having a role when the most important position on the field is wildly inconsistent and sometimes barely functional.
1. OC has done a fantastic job adjusting and putting us in a position to win 10+ games again (3rd longest national streak, ever), and for crying out loud, if we finish in the top 10 it sounds kind of silly calling out all these alleged problems.
2. WR. No we don't have a Tee Higgins on the roster, but we do have (5) top-20 and a top-50 receiver. Think about that.. 1000's of receivers in the country. It's not these guys are chopped liver. It's that they're not often given an opportunity to showcase their skills. See QB.
3. OL. I have no idea what you're complaining about here. No, they're not an Alabama OL, but this the highest recruited OL in Dabo's temure. They're usually giving DJ plenty of time, and our running game is strong and the best part of our offense. That doesn't happen with a crappy OL.
4. Recruiting misses. I imagine you're throwing a bunch pf guys into that pile without understanding the root cause.. the play of the most important position on the field.
5. QB. Bingo.
6. Portal guys. Unless you're talking about a QB, there are no positions where we need someone. You have to remember transfer players don't change schools because they want to be added depth. They come in when there's an open starting position, period. We have no open positions. Who would you suggest benching?
We're 19-4 in the last two years, with a top 15 finish and a potential 23-4 ledger and a top 10 finish. How many teams will have 23 wins over the last two seasons.
Are things really as broken as some portray? Clearly no. Me thinks some dudes can't see the forest through the trees.
Fix the most important position on the field, and EVERYTHING looks better
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Legend [18790]
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I appreciate the thoughtful long post
Nov 19, 2022, 12:25 PM
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But disagree with just about everything you said.
What does 9-1 have to do with this offense being so bad? This is my first question.
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Freshman [-79]
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Obviously feel free to disagree, but generally speaking when
Nov 19, 2022, 1:36 PM
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people disagree they list their rebuttals. The ball is in your court.
Add this, how does such a terrible offense do what's needed to win 9 games with the possibility of an ACC championship, 13-1, a NY6 bowl game, and a top 8 finish? It's called adjusting to what you have, and we've done a tremendous job of that, obviously. You don't do that with a terrible offense. Granted its not flashy enough for some of you, but it sure as heck is doing a great job doing what we need to do to win.
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110%er [5099]
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Re: How did the offense get so bad?
Nov 19, 2022, 12:24 PM
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The majority of the problem is scheme and play calling. Lack of speed at the WR position really hurts.
Here's all you need to know that it's coaching. How many teams with less talent have better offenses than Clemson? A lot.
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Legend [18790]
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Its got to be the answer.
Nov 19, 2022, 12:26 PM
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How many teams would trade offensive players with our team who are above us in offensive production?
I bet a lot.
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Orange Blooded [3626]
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Re: Its got to be the answer.
Nov 19, 2022, 12:33 PM
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No one would trade QB’s .. at least the starter.
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Freshman [-79]
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It starts at QB.
Nov 19, 2022, 1:39 PM
[ in reply to Its got to be the answer. ] |
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I can't figure out why this is such a hard concept for some of you.
What magic schemes and playcalls can you run when the guy responsible for running it struggles to do so?
The simple and obvius truth is we've scaled back the scheme and playcalls to win games, and we're obviously doing a darn good job it.
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Legend [16908]
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Re: How did the offense get so bad?
Nov 19, 2022, 12:36 PM
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I’m sincerely curious. If we win our next three games yet continue to hold our rather pedestrian offensive and defensive rankings are you still unhappy? Is there a point that you abandon your concern for the minutiae and enjoy the outcome. I understand that it’s unlikely - but if we make the playoffs and lose in a close game in semi final, are you unhappy. If we make make the final and lose and still have an uneven performance do you feel the need to examine every aspect of the program for negatives. What about if we win it all but look bad doing it? Is there a point where you embrace the notion that our staff is utilizing their roster to maximum efficiency? That would leave a single line item on your list as a remaining point of concern - recruiting misses. Clemson, which was markedly worse last year offensively, gave Georgia their toughest game of the year last season and it wasn’t even close. They’re capable of winning it all. As Notre Dame proved, they’re capable of crapping the bed. Recruiting evaluations for the 2021 and 2022 classes were severely impacted by covid. Some kids coasted on impressions from 3 seasons earlier while barely playing. We had the dumb luck of having pretty heavy roster turnover coincide with that influx. I don’t understand the urge to declare this program dead and perform an autopsy while we’re ranked in the top 10, will be playing for the conference title, and still have a chance at the CFP. Perhaps we’re going through something of a reboot akin to the 2012-14 seasons. Would that be so terrible? Do you have no faith that our staff can do that without external pressure?
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CU Guru [1558]
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Re: How did the offense get so bad?
Nov 19, 2022, 12:45 PM
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Dabo appears to be heavily involved in calling plays. Not sure if that is a problem or not.
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Legend [16908]
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Re: How did the offense get so bad?
Nov 19, 2022, 12:54 PM
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To whatever extent he’s involved do you believe it’s substantially different than he was from 2015-2020? Or 2015-2018 for those who think only being 2nd and 4th place was a decline? I don’t.
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Legend [18790]
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Freshman [-79]
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LOL. I'll give you $10 for every 3rd and long WR screen we
Nov 19, 2022, 1:55 PM
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run today, as long as you pay me $10 for every non-WR screen we run on 3rd and longs.
Deal?
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Freshman [-79]
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Where are you getting that "appears"?
Nov 19, 2022, 1:44 PM
[ in reply to Re: How did the offense get so bad? ] |
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And like viztiz said, if he is involved, are you saying he wasn't involved in the absolute greatest run in Clemson history, and one of the best runs the country has EVER seen?
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Legend [18790]
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Focus
Nov 19, 2022, 1:34 PM
[ in reply to Re: How did the offense get so bad? ] |
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I was talking about the issues on offense because we have them, like it or not.
Just because I bring them up doesn't mean I wish them; quite the opposite. Don't conflate fandom with honest observation.
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Legend [16908]
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Re: Focus
Nov 19, 2022, 1:52 PM
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So no answer? That’s why we butt heads. You have no interest in debate. You have a fully formed worldview and your are only interested in pounding the table. You are so entrenched you’re unwilling to concede, purely hypothetically, that if we won a national championship that the stats you’re relying on are irrelevant.
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Freshman [-79]
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EGGS ACTLY
Nov 19, 2022, 2:27 PM
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He's much more interested in simple-minded b!tching than he is in any type of objective debate.
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Freshman [-79]
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You've been corrected.
Nov 19, 2022, 1:59 PM
[ in reply to Focus ] |
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Focus.
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Orange Blooded [3369]
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Re: How did the offense get so bad?
Nov 19, 2022, 12:40 PM
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It all starts with Coaching , I would assume we have more talent than WF.
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All-In [44048]
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Our recruiting is good but our coaching is bad.***
Nov 19, 2022, 12:40 PM
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Freshman [-79]
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9-1, #9.. "bad coaching"???
Nov 19, 2022, 1:41 PM
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It's great coaching despite the elephant in the room.
If you want to see poorly coached and development of players, you know where to look, troll.
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Orange Blooded [4035]
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110%er [5482]
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Re: How did the offense get so bad?
Nov 19, 2022, 12:42 PM
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IMHO it is #5.
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All-American [557]
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DJ is not #5...
Nov 19, 2022, 12:59 PM
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¹He's the playing by far the most important position and ²has the luxury of going into every game with a SIGNIFICANT talent advantage on both offense & defense, save UGA last year.(talent advantage over ND arguably minimal). He's #1 & a decadent offensive scheme #2. If the staff were to adopt some of the more innovative, cutting edge concepts; there is some question about whether or not he could grasp and master the new material.
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Legend [18790]
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Just my opinion.
Nov 19, 2022, 1:36 PM
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But I think it's coaching, #1.
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Freshman [-79]
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Again, if the coaching is so bad, how in the heck are we 9-1
Nov 19, 2022, 1:52 PM
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and #9? And spare me some "talent" answer. No program can just trot good player out there and win as many games as we're doing. That's not the way it works.
ALL evidence points to excellent coaching despite the elephant in the room.
How many games have you actually been to make your assessments. For one, tell e how you're evaluating WRs when you can't even see what they're doing downfield?
Is the fault of the playcall when a QB drops back and turns into a statue in the pocket? Is it the fault of the playcall when there are free guys on nearly every play, but they're not spotted? Is it the fault of the playcall when the QB throws generally inaccurate balls beyond 10 yards? Is it the fault of the playcall when the QB is supposed to throw to 1:1 coverage and give his WR chance, but the QB either holds the ball or throws it into another zip code? Is it the fault of the play that we're forced to throw short passes because of the above issues?
Obviously the playcalling has been adjusted to suit the capabilities of the QB, and that's tremendous coaching.
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Legend [16908]
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Re: Again, if the coaching is so bad, how in the heck are we 9-1
Nov 19, 2022, 2:47 PM
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Because it makes more sense that the staff - one of the most successful in the history of the sport - all completely forgot how to do their jobs. I mean it’s impossible to believe that a few keys misses in recruiting and some roster management issues related to covid might be causing some issues. That’s crazy talk. Much easier to believe that a staff that has scaled the mountain together have all completely lost their minds. Hope we go the Jimbo Fisher route and start hiring the best available asap. That’ll work out great for little ole Clemson.
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All-TigerNet [10822]
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Excuse me sir… our previous staff was successful
Nov 19, 2022, 3:22 PM
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We have people in all new jobs with very little experience in those jobs. They literally have NO proven track record of success in these types of jobs. Streeters little bit of experience is the best we got …
What kind of delusional BS are you pumping out here ?
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Legend [16908]
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Re: Excuse me sir… our previous staff was successful
Nov 19, 2022, 3:48 PM
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They were all trained, in house, to do exactly what they’re doing. The staff was unchanged last year and the team struggled. Still want to through it all on coaching?
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Orange Blooded [4035]
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Re: Just my opinion.
Nov 19, 2022, 2:29 PM
[ in reply to Just my opinion. ] |
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Everyone can have an opinion. It could be coaching, but I personally doubt it.
IMO, it starts with QB. Not that DJ is horrible. It is that he appears to process slowly. When he does not throw on time, it appears that the line and the WR are not up to snuff.
The best teams have quick thinking QBs . Bama, Tennessee, Ohio State, etc.
DJ is better for sure, but still seems to be a half second late to throws and decisions. Not sure if it is because he simply is scared of making an error.
Anyway, imo, players make plays, throws, blocks, tackles. Coaches put them in position to do so.
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All-TigerNet [13038]
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Its pretty obvious we have way less playmaking talent
Nov 19, 2022, 1:43 PM
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than we used to on that side of the ball. All of the explosiveness has been gone from the offense the last two years.
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CU Guru [1045]
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Re: How did the offense get so bad?
Nov 19, 2022, 2:01 PM
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Part of it is Mack Brown. North Carolina has the #4 offense in the country, and some of those guys would probably have gone to Clemson otherwise.
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All-American [557]
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Re: How did the offense get so bad?
Nov 19, 2022, 3:57 PM
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We were beaten for a WR last year, but that's the only offense player I can recall us losing a true recruiting battle to UNC for a signature. Defensively more of a dent made by MB & staff-
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Orange Blooded [4035]
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Re: How did the offense get so bad?
Nov 19, 2022, 2:03 PM
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5
2
4
3
The rest is not really an issue.
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All-TigerNet [10822]
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Re: How did the offense get so bad?
Nov 19, 2022, 3:18 PM
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I think recruiting misses should move up to #2. I think that’s the biggest issue w our WRs. We don’t even have any role players that can block consistently on the edges.
We have never carried enough OL on the roster and you can see the results there. Our depth and talent at OL is actually a lot better than WR. Blake Miller is going to a great one.
Our offensive scheme is crap. We have continued to simplify it and let our NFL quarterbacks shoulder the burden. We’re not going to have an NFL qb every year. We need a scheme that can produce and distribute the ball to our WRs. We need a scheme
That can be run by a good qb. Not a generational talent.
If your offense is dependent on a generational talent you’re a lazy coach.
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Legend [18790]
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Good points.
Nov 19, 2022, 3:20 PM
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Its a mystery how we missed so many WRs. I think Williams is a home run, though. No one else scares you.
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Legend [16908]
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Re: How did the offense get so bad?
Nov 19, 2022, 5:14 PM
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The timing of this thread was impeccable.
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All-TigerNet [10822]
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I, for one,
Nov 27, 2022, 1:27 PM
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Was not shocked when we got outcoached by the coots
Keep making excuses for this staff.
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