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All-In [46768]
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The anti-work movement
Jan 19, 2022, 9:20 AM
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People are pushing back against the exploitation of work. Instead of working to live, they live then work.
The post about PTO got me thinking on it.
It's interesting.
However, it's what I already do.
No I don't make a lot of money.
I make enough for my family and I to be comfortable.
I also have a lot of time off. My schedule and my kid's schedule is the same. I spend a lot of time with my family.
Work provides for the life I want. Not the other way around.
Also had no problems leaving a very toxic workplace at the drop of a hat.
Sorry I'm not going to be a slave to my work like a lot of boomers are. I'm also not going to be loyal to my job. If a better job with better incentives comes up, I'll apply and probably take the job, if it allows me to live the life I want to lead.
Gone are the days of people working their ### off for maybe 4 years of waiting to die.
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All-In [46768]
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CU Medallion [54011]
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Not sure where I stand on this matter.
Jan 19, 2022, 10:25 AM
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I value hard work that earns its reward. Don’t show up on the first day with minimal experience and make demands. It takes a little sweat to get what you deserve.
But I also work for a company who year after year decreases benefit value and keeps raises and bonuses to what they believe is the minimum possible to keep everybody from walking out. I have folks where I work that I know are not paid what they are worth. We have people leaving or talking about leaving every day.
I sometimes think that administration is just plain stupid. But then again, if they’re goal is to run off the most experienced and highest paid employees, they’ve succeeded at their goal. I worry that this is exactly what they are trying to achieve. We’ve got people not working anymore, who are just tired of the dangling carrot that never comes. We hear it every year and now we know it’s a load of crap. I’m not sure what keeps me where I am right now. Maybe it’s because I like what I do, the people I work with, and it used to be comfortable. But the company doesn’t really deserve me and my comfort level fades a little every year. Now remember that all of this is coming from a drunk. But even being the worthless man that I am… I can’t help but wonder, shouldn’t the company have to earn their way a little too?
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CU Medallion [59974]
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Nice troll post.***
Jan 19, 2022, 9:21 AM
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All-In [46768]
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Re: Nice troll post.***
Jan 19, 2022, 11:10 AM
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All-TigerNet [13359]
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Re: Nice troll post.***
Jan 20, 2022, 8:10 AM
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What is your “worth”?
You should be paid some percentage less than 100 of the value you bring to the organization for which you work.
A lot of folks, especially the younger ones, miss this little equation and want to be paid on some fairytale system of worth. I run a sales organization, so this equation is about as unambiguous as it gets.
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All-In [46768]
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Every job should pay for the basic needs of the employees
Jan 20, 2022, 8:44 AM
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no exceptions
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All-In [46768]
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The simple fact is, most businesses want you to be loyal
Jan 19, 2022, 9:22 AM
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to them, but they will not be loyal to you.
If I die, my job will be posted before my obituary.
So yes, I will take the personal day for no reason when I want to.
No I'm not coming in on weekends or working beyond what I'm paid to work.
No I'm not going to tell you when I'm applying for other jobs because the boss doesn't tell us when he's applying for other jobs.
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Heisman Winner [105417]
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There is alot of truth to this, especially when you work
Jan 19, 2022, 9:24 AM
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for a big company. You are just a number, an easily replaceable number, no matter how valuable you THINK you are.
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All-In [46768]
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I just don't subscribe to the idea my
Jan 19, 2022, 9:27 AM
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parents and grandparents had about work. Where I bust my ### and do everything my boss tells me to do no matter how exploitive it is just so nobody can say I'm lazy. Then maybe, if I bust my ### hard enough for 40 years, I can have a few years of retirement before I'm broke and living in a nursing home.
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Lot o points [163008]
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You make it sound so good.
Jan 19, 2022, 9:48 AM
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Heisman Winner [135611]
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I went to my boss once with some complaints and
Jan 19, 2022, 9:30 AM
[ in reply to There is alot of truth to this, especially when you work ] |
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his response was, he’d be happy to write me a great reference if I was unhappy
So I left. Took them 4 years to find a replacement that lasted more than 6 months and ultimately hired two people to do what I was doing
And this ain’t a brag, I’m nothing special, he and therefore the job were just that schyatty
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Lot o points [163008]
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Some bad management there. Unfortunately most managers of
Jan 19, 2022, 9:50 AM
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people are not trained to be managers - they just did well enough in their job to be promoted and learned to manage from their managers, who probably sucked.
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All-In [31830]
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Honest question....what experience do you base that...
Jan 19, 2022, 11:38 AM
[ in reply to The simple fact is, most businesses want you to be loyal ] |
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opinion on?
I can agree with you on most large companies, where employees are just a number in a system.
However, I don't think most small and medium-sized companies work like that, especially ones that are run well.
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Oculus Spirit [75671]
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When I left the bank, they paid my replacement
Jan 19, 2022, 12:23 PM
[ in reply to The simple fact is, most businesses want you to be loyal ] |
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20k more than they paid me. Seems they guy had some high ranking friends but they didn't have a spot where he fit until I left, still, they could have kept me for 10k less than he was making. BUT had that happen I wouldn't have my fantastic job I have today.
In summary, young folks should jump often, because your first gig will not turn into your golden watch job these days.
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All-In [43513]
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CU Medallion [65970]
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Those on the government teet seems to have a lot
Jan 19, 2022, 4:55 PM
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opinions on how the real world should be run
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CU Medallion [59974]
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My only question on this troll
Jan 19, 2022, 9:23 AM
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is that you say you have the same schedule as your kids. However not too long ago you told us you were mad cause you were working 16 hour days. Which is it?
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All-In [46768]
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3 months a year I work 16 hour days 6 days a week
Jan 19, 2022, 9:26 AM
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the rest of the year I have the same schedule
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All-In [43513]
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No you don’t
Jan 19, 2022, 12:54 PM
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And you don’t even believe that
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All-In [40656]
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Worst Haiku ever***
Jan 19, 2022, 9:34 AM
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110%er [6934]
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The "anti-work movement" seems like a bunch of lazy commies
Jan 19, 2022, 9:36 AM
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on Reddit who complain when they can't get $25/hour and full benefits as a cashier.
That said, you are right that loyalty is a one way street for most companies. You are also right that no one should feel guilty for taking advantage of vacation, etc. There is certainly a generational divide on the approach to that. Most, but not all, of the senior folks where I work are on 24/7: staying late even if they don't need to, emails going out while still in bed or sitting on a beach. I work hard, and will do what it takes to get the job done, but also appreciate having some boundaries. Like you said, I work to provide me and my family what we need and want. If the job overtakes the family then I'm doing something wrong.
Since I've agreed with you of your points, I'm going to go read some Milton Friedman or Adam Smith as penance.
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Head Coach [790]
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Re: The "anti-work movement" seems like a bunch of lazy commies
Jan 19, 2022, 9:41 AM
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Lazy commies. Good grief.
Is it so hard to support people entering the job markets not to be exploited?
FB coach is right. Companies aren’t loyal to you. They could give AF and you’re replaceable. So the bargin is to balance out what you’re giving up personally to work.
Is $15 an hour at McDonald’s worth the sacrifice to do it? I dunno. Depends on your situation.
These people aren’t lazy. They just want to have equality in the bargaining process
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CU Medallion [59974]
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Other than sex workers and underage
Jan 19, 2022, 9:50 AM
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kids pushing heroine….. there is hardly anyone getting “exploited” in America. If you feel that way, you need to do some travel abroad.
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Head Coach [790]
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Re: Other than sex workers and underage
Jan 19, 2022, 9:55 AM
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Lol. I live abroad my friend. I’ve identified human trafficking rings. So you don’t need to lecture me on exploitation
And yes. Workers in America are exploited. Millions of them. Just because you can earn $10 doesn’t make it liveable. Doesn’t feed your children or your parents. Doesn’t cover the health care or other needs.
You want to make America great again? Why not properly looking after the poor? Giving people in Flint Michigan water they can drink. Instead of complaining about wokism …
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Commissioner [976]
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You “identified human trafficking rings”
Jan 19, 2022, 10:02 AM
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Kind of a weird way to say you like the prostitutes, but ok.
I lived in England and can tell you most people here are much happier and doing better for themselves than almost the entire population there. Here there will always be a fraction of the population who continue to choose poorly and are only worth paying $10 an hour. Forcing companies to pay $15 for $10 work will just cause automation and the closures of small businesses, making it impossible to start a business, like it is in the EU. Having the government step in and “make things better” will only cause insane tax rates… like they have in the EU. You can afford them because we have the military to protect you. But if we adopted the European way, we could no longer afford your protection.
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Head Coach [790]
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Re: You “identified human trafficking rings”
Jan 19, 2022, 11:07 AM
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Sheesh. Your echo chamber is so strong that when someone’s actual job is to help exploited people, of the class you identified, you come after them. This is the America you live in. So sad.
The thing is I’ve seen actual sex and human trafficking of the likes your describe and still believe that US workers are exploited.
But sure. Go ahead and come after me. I sleep well at night knowing I’m not you.
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All-In [46768]
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Orange Blooded [4695]
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I work for a great man at a small business
Jan 19, 2022, 9:46 AM
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he treats his employees like families, gives 5 figure bonuses twice a year in addition to paying about 25% than what anyone would be making anywhere else. Everyone starts out with 3 weeks of PTO. Matches 401K 50% of up to 25% of your salary.
There's a certain population of employees that still find things to complain about. And it's the people working the lower end/customer service/hourly jobs. Mind you the lowest hourly wage is about $25 and that number doesn't include bonuses. If you answer phones here you're pushing 6 figures.
For example, during the original COVID shut down, we paid employees to sit home and do nothing. We have a vacation rental business as part of our operations and one of the employees was ticked she didn't get over time when she came in on a Saturday (as part of her job). Sat at home all week doing nothing, had to come in for 2 hours on a Saturday to check guests out.. wanted overtime.
These employees wonder why they never get promoted.
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CU Medallion [54758]
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Hey
Jan 19, 2022, 10:01 AM
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u hiring?
kidding.
maybe
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Orange Blooded [4695]
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People in your line are booked through 2024 down here***
Jan 19, 2022, 10:28 AM
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CU Medallion [54758]
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down here? ??
Jan 19, 2022, 11:20 AM
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why'd i think you were 'up' here?
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Orange Blooded [4695]
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I moved outta Greenville 9 years ago.***
Jan 19, 2022, 12:56 PM
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CU Medallion [54758]
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ooh...
Jan 19, 2022, 1:07 PM
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I'll get MauldinT® to update his spreadsheet then....
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CU Medallion [65970]
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I believe kms lives in Florida....again***
Jan 19, 2022, 1:09 PM
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All-In [46768]
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Re: Hey
Jan 19, 2022, 10:55 AM
[ in reply to Hey ] |
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All-In [46768]
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Orange Blooded [4695]
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My point wasn't about my situation, if you read closely
Jan 19, 2022, 10:27 AM
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I was saying there are people who certain people who STILL COMPLAIN even when they are in a good situation.
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All-In [46768]
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Definitely. But once again, the people in a great situation
Jan 19, 2022, 10:31 AM
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are the exception and the people being exploited at their jobs is the norm.
I'm in a great situation and we have people complaining here. If you can't work where I am, you can't work anywhere.
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All-In [31830]
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And you know this how exactly?***
Jan 19, 2022, 11:51 AM
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CU Medallion [51524]
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All-In [46768]
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It's florida
Jan 19, 2022, 11:05 AM
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both
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Orange Blooded [4695]
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Commissioner [976]
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I’m a fan of everyone making their own choices
Jan 19, 2022, 9:49 AM
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And not asking others to subsidize their choices through government jobs or entitlement handouts. As long as you aren’t in my pocket and you’re happy, I’m happy for you.
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Hall of Famer [23946]
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Re: The anti-work movement
Jan 19, 2022, 9:55 AM
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Do what you want to do. Money isn't everything. But don't bich about someone who has more money and nicer things than you.
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All-In [45623]
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This explains....
Jan 19, 2022, 10:20 AM
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Why you don't make a lot of money. You sound lazy.
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All-In [46768]
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Re: This explains....
Jan 20, 2022, 9:04 AM
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CU Medallion [56005]
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This seems like two different topics to me.
Jan 19, 2022, 10:23 AM
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One is whether you should live to work or work to live. The other is how people at the bottom are being treated like #### and paid peanuts, but with the glut of available jobs they can tell their a-hole boss to take their job and shove it.
Regarding the former, I was raised by a bunch of boomers who said
A: You have to go to college. There's no particular reason why, you just have to do that.
B: You should do what you love for a living.
Both of those things are wrong and stupid and misled me for years. Eventually I learned that I'm a work-to-live guy. The last thing I want to do is take something I love and turn it into a job. I want a great job so that I can do the things I love.
Regarding the latter, I think we need to redefine the role of management. Too many people think it means "I'm the boss and you do what I say." This makes the worker bees hate their job and hate their boss. It was especially bad after the Great Recession when everyone was competing for the few open positions. People in management figured they could treat everyone like #### and get away with it. I worked at a company where we were told - and this is verbatim - if you don't like it, there's the door. You know what happened? Everyone ####### quit and took jobs where we weren't treated like ####.
Unskilled labor in particular gets victimized by power tripping losers with a hint of authority. But now with so many roles open and wages rising fast, they're not getting away with it. This pleases me.
The pandemic is pretty awful, but it's had the positive side-effect of shaking up the old Etch-A-Sketch. I wish we could achieve big societal changes deliberately and without people dying, but I'll take what I can get.
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All-In [46768]
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I have also realized that sometimes it's not management
Jan 19, 2022, 10:28 AM
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that's the #######, but the ####### above management. #### rolls down hill.
I had a former boss who was awful. Created issues, found ways to ride people until they quit. Just an overall terrible person.
But I quickly learned, he was a terrible person because his boss was 10x worse than he was.
Once again, #### rolls down hill.
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Oculus Spirit [80952]
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Sometimes its easier to make someone quit than it is to
Jan 19, 2022, 10:44 AM
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fire them.
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All-In [46768]
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I agree. But this dude treated it as a sport
Jan 19, 2022, 10:46 AM
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he came to me on time in February and would not let me leave the meeting until I told him somebody I wanted gone.
He was giddy.
Literally said he was bored so he was going to find somebody to ride until they quit.
I'm sorry but I can't play with a person's job/career like that.
And I've fired people before.
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Oculus Spirit [80952]
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If you do it right, firing someone is just the formality of
Jan 19, 2022, 10:52 AM
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them not getting paid anymore. By the time I get around to fire someone, they have already done the damage to themselves. Giving them enough rope to hang themselves and all. Once, I fired a guy on his voice mail. 6 months later he tried to reapply for another job we had open. People are amazing sometimes.
I've never known anyone who enjoyed firing anyone, even if everyone was happy when they finally got canned. But then again, I've never worked in Communist America, so it might be a whole different world in your bubble. I know the teachers and admins I had 100 years ago when I was in public school were both simultaneously some of the best and some of the worst people alive.
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All-In [46768]
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I had to fire an 80 year old dude for threats made
Jan 19, 2022, 10:54 AM
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against people.
Even though he definitely deserved to be fired (and told me he was waiting for me to fire him), I still hated doing it.
I mean the guy was 80. I just acted like he was bengaline
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All-In [46768]
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This is also the same dude who wrote my resignation letter
Jan 19, 2022, 11:00 AM
[ in reply to If you do it right, firing someone is just the formality of ] |
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for me stating that I felt incompetent and could no longer do my job correctly, then told me to either sign it or he was going to sue for breach of contract.
I signed "under duress" then emailed HR a copy of MY resignation letter and had the state office contact him about ethics. He flipped his ####
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All-In [46768]
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He was then removed from that position and
Jan 19, 2022, 11:01 AM
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"promoted" to a do-nothing job.
Which is the case in this field. The worse you are at your job the higher up the ladder you go.
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Oculus Spirit [80952]
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Why not let him sue?
Jan 19, 2022, 11:27 AM
[ in reply to This is also the same dude who wrote my resignation letter ] |
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People that threaten to sue rarely do it.
Employment law is the only real part of law where a working man mostly has the upper hand. You gotta be doing something pretty egregious to have someone sue you and win over an employment contract.
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Lot o points [163008]
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This is unfortunately the attitude of a lot of managers
Jan 19, 2022, 12:59 PM
[ in reply to Sometimes its easier to make someone quit than it is to ] |
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So bad for other workers who see you putting up with the crap that poor employee does.
Once you decide someone ain't gonna make it, terminate - it is better for you, for other employees and guess what, better for terminated employee - dead man walking is a real thing.
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Oculus Spirit [80952]
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Agreed, on all of that.
Jan 19, 2022, 10:47 AM
[ in reply to This seems like two different topics to me. ] |
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We've been living under the threat of "if you don't like it leave" for so long that I just thought that was normal. But I've noticed the sentiment has changed around here lately.
We're getting gobbled up by super mega corp in the next few months, and I guess questions started popping up why so many people are quitting, and not being replaced. Used to they were happy to fire anyone, now they are actually worried about people staying on their own.
I like to see this shift in priorities. And I hope everyone quits in the next 6 months (I mean after my RSU's are vested and I can sell them.)
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Hall of Famer [23946]
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Re: This seems like two different topics to me.
Jan 19, 2022, 10:58 AM
[ in reply to This seems like two different topics to me. ] |
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Pretty basic supply/demand economics going on right now. It's fun to see it unfold on such visible level, especially when it's in favor of the masses - at least from the wage side.
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All-In [48780]
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Check out Erin Meyer...
Jan 19, 2022, 4:42 PM
[ in reply to This seems like two different topics to me. ] |
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a lot of stuff on culture and how it affects the workplace. She focuses on comparing culture between countries, but your points made her work ring a bell with me.
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CU Medallion [65970]
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I think it's going to get better
Jan 19, 2022, 11:14 AM
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There's an offset on the indifference curve for younger folks today. Lots of things at play, COVID, WFH availability, a reset in the labor market skewing toward the workers.
I don't think it's a bad thing , in the temporary, but if inflation continues to rise, the labor market will shift again.
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All-In [46768]
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Exactly. Why make 10/hr catching #### at Mcdonald's
Jan 19, 2022, 11:22 AM
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when I can walk across the road and catch #### at Wendy's for 13/hr
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CU Medallion [64837]
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Wendy's
Jan 19, 2022, 12:44 PM
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nuts bust in your mouth, I'll give you an even $20.
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Hall of Famer [21833]
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I don't see a problem with this.
Jan 19, 2022, 12:39 PM
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Don't work, don't get paid. Don't ##### about people who do.
I was actually thinking about this on my walk this morning. If we were to do an exercise in this country, and give 1% of the population $1M, what do you think would happen?
I personally think the distribution of funds left after a time period of 5 years or so would follow a Poisson distribution. I'd wager <99% would even have the original million left - ruling out inflation. I'd wager less than 100 people would get an 8% return. That's roughly 0.003%.
Why do I say this?
A lot of beef is given to people who start firms that become highly successful. Often times in the types of echo chambers you follow, that success is accredited to them having a higher starting point from a capital appropriation perspective. However, it takes more than a stack to make money. You have to want it, you have to know how to do it, and then you have to execute.
There's an unfortunate majority in this country who have none of these traits, yet have a potential to amplify their btiching that the system is broken.
I've said ad nauseum that the system is broken. I firmly believe we don't align on the how.
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Orange Blooded [4695]
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I think we kind of did an experiment on this with all of the
Jan 19, 2022, 1:01 PM
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money printed and handed out in the last couple of years.
The 1% get richer and the poor end up the same.
The middle ends up footing the bill for the whole exercise.
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All-In [46768]
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Don't see how this is on topic.
Jan 19, 2022, 1:04 PM
[ in reply to I don't see a problem with this. ] |
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My point in this thread is busting ### for most of the day for most of the week for most of your life just to have a few years to enjoy in your worse years until you die is some hoe ####
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Heisman Winner [105417]
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Yeah, you are getting dragged for
Jan 19, 2022, 1:25 PM
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some shit you really didn't say
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Hall of Famer [21833]
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I believe at its core
Jan 19, 2022, 2:48 PM
[ in reply to Don't see how this is on topic. ] |
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this anti-work movement stems from the dichotomy between the working class and the share holder class. Often times with the latter being thrown in as "just buying another yacht" - which you yourself have posted on here in the past.
My apologies for automatically lumping them together, but I don't think you have this anti-work culture without having the massive gap, is my point. Got a lot going on and didn't have time to tie that together so my bad.
My first statement is my response to this movement. Don't want to work? That's completely fine. Don't expect the same standard of living as those of us who do.
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All-In [46768]
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I got you know. You were explaining the origins***
Jan 20, 2022, 7:43 AM
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Oculus Spirit [75671]
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Depends on the 1% you choose.
Jan 19, 2022, 1:05 PM
[ in reply to I don't see a problem with this. ] |
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I think if you picked the poorest 1% a small few would escape that, most would suffer lifestyle inflation, make some mistakes, then be back where they started. A few more than expected would end up dead.
There is truth to the whole, wake up on 3rd base think you hit a triple thing, but it doesn't mean somebody starting with 2 strikes can't succeed.
Really I just feel like those that do have the stack of money, the knowledge of how, and the drive should realize how reliant they still may be on other people. I don't think boss man should have 3 houses and drive at $75,000 car when a key employee is barely making rent and may have to beg for a ride sometime. The rub is figuring out if the employee has a wage problem or a decision making problem. $30 minimum wage can't help somebody who makes bad choices all the time like always having a working $2000 tv but never having any money saved up.
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CU Medallion [60205]
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Tales of lotto winners are your case study here
Jan 19, 2022, 1:10 PM
[ in reply to I don't see a problem with this. ] |
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there's almost zero happy stories of people who won the lottery.
Also pro athletes. How many of them end up destitute vs living out their lives like multimillionaiires "should".
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All-In [46768]
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Same for some one hit wonders in the music world
Jan 19, 2022, 1:12 PM
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there's a tik tok channel dedicated to their abandoned mansion
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CU Medallion [60205]
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All-In [46768]
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I would love to test this data***
Jan 19, 2022, 1:14 PM
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All-In [46768]
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Oculus Spirit [75671]
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What if it is just done for fun.
Jan 19, 2022, 1:23 PM
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I can't see how, but somebody may get as much entertainment out of $100 worth of scratch offs as they do going to a football game or concert that also cost $100.
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Oculus Spirit [80952]
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I'll get disgusted with life occasionally and buy a
Jan 19, 2022, 5:30 PM
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powerball ticket.
What am I going to do with $6..start a business?
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Oculus Spirit [75671]
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I equate all of my time spent at Blackjack tables and
Jan 20, 2022, 8:23 AM
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slot machines the same way I do my concerts and football games. My granddad wouldn't approve of this, but at least gambling has SOME chance to return money. The other events return memories. Now, memories cost a lot when you don't make them, but there is also a chance a good night at a blackjack table pays for the vacation.
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Orange Blooded [4679]
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Re: according to this, 70% of the Mega Millions winners
Jan 20, 2022, 7:36 AM
[ in reply to according to this, 70% of the Mega Millions winners ] |
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I’ve read somewhere that 80% go broke but 70% is still crazy. It’s not hard to believe though. Consider the money management skills if people who buy lottery tickets regularly. Same for pro athletes. Watch what they do with their money the first couple years. The ones with the 250k gold chains around their necks will soon be broke.
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Orange Blooded [4679]
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Re: The anti-work movement
Jan 20, 2022, 8:21 AM
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If a man does not want to work it’s his business. He just need not expect me or my tax dollars to lift him out of poverty. If he’s agreeable to that no problem.
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All-In [46768]
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I shouldn't be surprised you equate this with not working
Jan 20, 2022, 8:42 AM
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it's not "I don't want to work, but pay me anyways"
It's the idea that work should not be the dominant factor in our lives.
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Orange Blooded [4679]
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Re: I shouldn't be surprised you equate this with not working
Jan 20, 2022, 8:46 AM
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If you’re talking about a proper balance then I get it. My question to “Larry” from tge article is “who feeds you Larry while you live in a trailer in your mothers back yard? Does your poor elderly mother feed you Larry?
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All-In [46768]
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I have no idea what this means***
Jan 20, 2022, 8:46 AM
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Orange Blooded [4679]
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Re: I have no idea what this means***
Jan 20, 2022, 9:25 AM
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Did you read the article that YOU posted?
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Heisman Winner [105417]
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Oculus Spirit [75671]
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