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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Clemson Basketball Defense
Aug 16, 2022, 9:48 AM
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IMO the main reason we struggled last year is that our Defense was pretty bad. It was our second worst opponent's PPG average under Brownell at 68.5 PPG. It was our 4th worst defensive season in the last 20 years. What I think attributed to this is below..
- Overall size: Our 2 starting guards were basically PG's at 6'1 and 5'10. Collins was undersized as was Hunter Tyson. You could see the opposing PG's shooting confidence grow every time Honor was on them.
- Depth and Stamina: We saw many late game leads slip away. We had PJ Hall who was not very well conditioned due to not practicing all season. You could tell he was spent at the end of every game. Our 2 back up bigs were freshman, and although they came on at the end of the year, they weren't ready to perform at an ACC level until the end of the year.
I believe our defense will be much better this year. We have much more depth with our bigs and we won't have tiny guards.
PG and SG: If we start the year w/ Chase Hunter and Brevin Galloway at these 2 positions, we will have much more size. Chase Hunter is 5" taller than Honor and Brevin is 1" taller than Dawes. Even if Dillon Hunter takes over that role by the end of the year, he is also 6'4
SF: Looks like RJ Godfrey will get the start there. He is 6'7 and 200 lbs. He is a much better athlete than David Collins, and I don't expect he will miss a beat defensively
PG: Hunter Tyson should be better defensively as he has more experience in a starting role and he has added muscle since last year. He won the strength award on the team just a couple months ago
C: When PJ Hall comes back, hopefully he can actually practice and he can be more game ready. Even if he is not in better shape, we have experienced back ups that can relieve him. We shouldn't have to expect more minutes out of PJ Hall this year. In fact, it could be beneficial to the team to give him a couple extra minutes on the bench considering we have Middlebrooks and Schef to fill in.
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Legend [15501]
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Re: Clemson Basketball Defense
Aug 16, 2022, 10:08 AM
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Thanks for the update and your opinions. I certainly hope our basketball team turns a corner and achieves great success this year and for the future. I want us to be a great basketball school and a great football school.
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All-In [43992]
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Great point about our defense.
Aug 16, 2022, 12:16 PM
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Those stats you shared are very telling.
I agree that more size in the backcourt will help. I also like Godfrey at the 3. He will make some freshman mistakes, but his length and athleticism will cause a lot of problems for his opponent.
Schieffelin, Middlebrooks, and Wiggins should all get solid minutes down low, even if P.J. is healthy and playing starter minutes. As you mentioned, Hunter Tyson has added bulk and can fill in some down low as well if needed.
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Legend [19567]
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Freshmen rarely play great defense
Aug 16, 2022, 3:21 PM
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we have 5 of them. The only proven defender we'll have on the floor to begin the year is Hunter. Tyson is still undersized at 4. Hall is out until???
Depth is great but inexperience is a killer, especially in Brad's defense which switches a lot.
Defense is also predicated on rebounding, and that's going to be a struggle even when Hall returns. 2nd and 3rd shots negate what may have been a good defensive series. You say we have experienced depth up front? Middlebrooks did not play much. Ian averaged what, 8-10 minutes a game? They played, but they are hardly seasoned vets.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Freshmen rarely play great defense
Aug 16, 2022, 4:06 PM
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All 5 freshman won't play significant minutes. You are also including Beadle who is a redshirt. Can you name some of these freshman that have struggled on defense for us? A lot of the reason freshman struggle on defense is because they are not physical enough. RJ Godfrey is 6-7 and over 220. I don't see him as a defensive liability.
We should be fine on rebounding. Our team is much bigger than they were last year, and rebounding wasn't really a huge issue last year.
I never said that Schef and Middlebrooks were "seasoned vets" They are both experienced and should provide great depth next year. It's not very often that we have 2 competent big men back ups.
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All-TigerNet [11428]
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Re: Freshmen rarely play great defense
Aug 16, 2022, 4:57 PM
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I agree with striper fan. It all depends if the freshman are good on defense which isn't the norm and guys who came back are better defenders.
Think some of Brad's better defensive teams before Clemson are with Billy Donlon as his assistant so maybe that will help as well...
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Legend [19567]
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If we're as deep as you say then they'll have to
Aug 16, 2022, 6:20 PM
[ in reply to Re: Freshmen rarely play great defense ] |
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play significant minutes. Yes I include Beadle, he's never played a college game, and he's a smaller guard, which you say causes defensive issues. Last year we had grad transfers who couldn't adjust to Brad's defensive system, now we have raw freshmen. Other than Hunter name one of the So-Jr-Sr who is known as a lockdown defender?
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All-TigerNet [11428]
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Re: If we're as deep as you say then they'll have to
Aug 16, 2022, 6:33 PM
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I agree. They never answered that need in the portal of 6-4 to 6-6 wing that could be used as a lockdown defender to replace David Collins. Collins was like that by mid Feb. but now he is gone...
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Legend [19567]
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If this team surprises and has a good year
Aug 16, 2022, 6:56 PM
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no one will be happier than me. Winter sucks when we suck at basketball. But the reality is, or at least has been, Brad does not recruit impact freshmen. We have, including Beadle, five 3 stars. In the last 25 years we've had arguably 3 freshmen total you could argue were impact players; Trevor, Hammonds and Stitt. On a team with only 6 returning guys and just one transfer, these freshmen will have to get meaningful minutes. That is a horrible situation for us, especially since only one of those returnees is a standout, and he's hurt.
Hunter, Tyson, Hemenway have been role players their entire careers. To see two of them really becoming something more than a 10-12 point guy is a real leap. I'll eat crow gladly if I'm wrong, but everything about this roster and it's inexperience tells me it's going to be a long year.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: If this team surprises and has a good year
Aug 16, 2022, 8:14 PM
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no one will be happier than me. Winter sucks when we suck at basketball. But the reality is, or at least has been, Brad does not recruit impact freshmen. We have, including Beadle, five 3 stars. In the last 25 years we've had arguably 3 freshmen total you could argue were impact players; Trevor, Hammonds and Stitt. On a team with only 6 returning guys and just one transfer, these freshmen will have to get meaningful minutes. That is a horrible situation for us, especially since only one of those returnees is a standout, and he's hurt.
Hunter, Tyson, Hemenway have been role players their entire careers. To see two of them really becoming something more than a 10-12 point guy is a real leap. I'll eat crow gladly if I'm wrong, but everything about this roster and it's inexperience tells me it's going to be a long year.
So 10-12 points or less means they are a role player? How often does Clemson have teams where we have more than 1 player that averages over 10-12 points per game? Under brownell and OP, we've only had 2 teams that achieved this feat. Brownell's sweet 16 did it w/ grantham, Devoe, and reed, but devoe only averaged that much because he started scoring considerably more when grantham got injured. One of Purnell's teams did this when booked avg 15, Kc rivers avg 14, and oglesbly avg 13.
Hunter Tyson can absolutely average more than 12 ppg as can chase hunter.
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Freshman [9]
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Re: If this team surprises and has a good year
Aug 16, 2022, 10:23 PM
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Tyson will average 15/7.
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All-In [43992]
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Legend [19567]
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But the vast majority of them recruit better than us
Aug 16, 2022, 7:23 PM
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and didn't flame out in the portal. I never write a season off, I do try to look at things realistically.
Realistically, we're bottom 5 in the league IMO. Without Hall we'll struggle to win half our non conference games
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: If we're as deep as you say then they'll have to
Aug 16, 2022, 7:40 PM
[ in reply to If we're as deep as you say then they'll have to ] |
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1. Josh beadle is not a "smaller guard" he is 6'3. Last year we started a 5'10 PG and a 6'1 SG.
2. Over brownell's tenure, on average 8-9 players get over 10 minutes a game. We currently have 7 players who will get those minutes that are not freshman. Godfrey and beadle (rs fr) are pretty much locks to get over 10 min a game. Dillon hunter will probably get close to that. So yes, we will have 2 maybe 3 freshman that are contributors.
3. I never said we have multiple lock down defenders. The point of my post was simple (although you can't seem to grasp), I believe our main weakness was our defense last year. I believe we will be much better defensively this year. I never said we would be the best defense of all time.
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All-TigerNet [11428]
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Re: If we're as deep as you say then they'll have to
Aug 16, 2022, 8:05 PM
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1. Josh beadle is not a "smaller guard" he is 6'3. Last year we started a 5'10 PG and a 6'1 SG.
2. Over brownell's tenure, on average 8-9 players get over 10 minutes a game. We currently have 7 players who will get those minutes that are not freshman. Godfrey and beadle (rs fr) are pretty much locks to get over 10 min a game. Dillon hunter will probably get close to that. So yes, we will have 2 maybe 3 freshman that are contributors.
3. I never said we have multiple lock down defenders. The point of my post was simple (although you can't seem to grasp), I believe our main weakness was our defense last year. I believe we will be much better defensively this year. I never said we would be the best defense of all time.
Yeah, but any frosh that Brad has played over 10 minutes a game has had an adjustment period in defense.
And how has the guards older than freshmen been on defense? Hemenway has been a defensive liability his whole carrer. Chase has been average at best. Collins was the lock down defender by Feburary. And they replaced him with Galloway who was not a good defender at BC. Where is the transfer in the portal who was 6-4 or taller that would have helped replaced Collins?
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Legend [19567]
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I don't think anyone is arguing that defense was
Aug 16, 2022, 8:22 PM
[ in reply to Re: If we're as deep as you say then they'll have to ] |
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not a weakness last year. I'm just not sure how this year will be better? Basically everyone is an unknown except Hunter and Tyson starting the season. Hemenway is not going to be a dependable defender. Ian has never logged many minutes, nor has Middlebrooks. Galloway is, well, sadly, the best transfer we could land. He was the 4th or 5th best guard at BC. And the rest are freshmen.
How you can project that mix to be better defensively is beyond me. Almost all of Brad's teams, even his more veteran ones, struggle out of the gate with his defensive scheme. It's a good scheme, but it takes 5 guys on the same page, and that takes time for continuity to develop. Knowing when to switch, when to fight through the screen, double team in the post. Young guys struggle with it. And 7 of our 12 scholarship players are 2 unproven sophs, an unproven redshirt freshman, and 4 true freshmen.
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All-TigerNet [11428]
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Re: If we're as deep as you say then they'll have to
Aug 16, 2022, 9:09 PM
[ in reply to Re: If we're as deep as you say then they'll have to ] |
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1. Josh beadle is not a "smaller guard" he is 6'3. Last year we started a 5'10 PG and a 6'1 SG.
2. Over brownell's tenure, on average 8-9 players get over 10 minutes a game. We currently have 7 players who will get those minutes that are not freshman. Godfrey and beadle (rs fr) are pretty much locks to get over 10 min a game. Dillon hunter will probably get close to that. So yes, we will have 2 maybe 3 freshman that are contributors.
3. I never said we have multiple lock down defenders. The point of my post was simple (although you can't seem to grasp), I believe our main weakness was our defense last year. I believe we will be much better defensively this year. I never said we would be the best defense of all time.
Striperfan makes great points. He knows Tiger Basketball very well. His dad was the late great Jim Phillips who was voice for the Tigers many years so has followed Clemson since the 70s.
BTW, you have said you are OK with Clemson and Brad parting ways if that were ever happen.
Who would you like to see as future candidates if it happens?
My sleeper pick if it ever happens is Earl Grant at BC
.once he turns it around at BC he will seek a job in the SEC or another ACC school in the south. Why not Clemson since he was a huge Clemson fan growing up. BC probably has a Winning season this season, and 1 season away from a NCAAT team. He had a top 20 recruiting class at BC, and starting another really good one for next year. BC will not pay as much as Clemson or anyone else in the ACC or SEC.
Also like Jeff Linder at Wyoming , and formerly at Northern Colorado, Niko Medved at Colorado State and before at Furman, and Bob Richey at Furman now.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: If we're as deep as you say then they'll have to
Aug 16, 2022, 10:23 PM
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If we have a season similar to last year, then yes I would be ok with firing Brad. There's a lot of different factors at play though such as recruiting/returning talent/etc.
I don't really pay attention to coaches at smaller schools, which would be the talent poo we would have to choose from. I really like levelle moton.
Do you think we will be a better defensive team this year?
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Legend [17522]
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All-TigerNet [11428]
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Re: IMO Brownell was kept for 2022-23 because Neff has his eyes
Aug 17, 2022, 7:49 PM
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on a head coach who will be more accessible from a contract perspective after this season.
Good point.
That could be Earl Grant. Only at BC at one season, and wanted to see a little more. I believe Earl starts to turn the corner at BC this coming season.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: IMO Brownell was kept for 2022-23 because Neff has his eyes
Aug 18, 2022, 10:15 AM
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Doubt that
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