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110%er [6639]
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All-In [26968]
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I'm a conservative and a big 2A supporter...
Feb 18, 2020, 10:03 AM
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but I'm intrigued by the bill and would possibly support it, depending on how specific it is with defining the weapon to be banned.
This is a good example of the process working. I've read so many "doomsday" posts about Virginia and guns, but here we have a legislature "slowing their roll". Good for them, and good for Virginia.
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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Why? The amount of people killed with rifles every year is
Feb 18, 2020, 10:12 AM
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statistically minuscule.....Like less than 300 per year.
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CU Medallion [56069]
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But it'll be like 40 at once at a middle school or a
Feb 18, 2020, 10:27 AM
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concert in Vegas.
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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Why are some semi automatics more dangerous than others?***
Feb 18, 2020, 10:30 AM
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CU Medallion [56069]
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Well that really has nothing to do with what I said.
Feb 18, 2020, 10:33 AM
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I suppose ammunition makes a difference. A semi-auto rifle would be more dangerous than a semi-auto hand gun. You're right, though. That's why I support a ban on all semi-automatic weapons.
I also think we should overturn the 2nd Amendment, since we can't even agree on what it's supposed to mean, and replace it with a Constitutional amendment that explicitly protects firearm ownership with reasonable restrictions.
Message was edited by: Murcielago®
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110%er [8984]
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it means what it says***
Feb 18, 2020, 10:34 AM
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CU Medallion [56069]
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Re: it means what it says***
Feb 18, 2020, 10:37 AM
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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I vehemently disagree, but at least I respect the fact
Feb 18, 2020, 10:36 AM
[ in reply to Well that really has nothing to do with what I said. ] |
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that you can logically see why banning certain semi auto's makes absolutely no sense other than to assuage peoples feels.
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Oculus Spirit [81061]
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CU Medallion [56069]
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Yeah.***
Feb 18, 2020, 10:40 AM
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110%er [7013]
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A bullet from an AR type rifle is hypersonic and turns
Feb 18, 2020, 12:00 PM
[ in reply to Well that really has nothing to do with what I said. ] |
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a large swath of your innards into jello. A handgun round is more of a puncture wound as far as internal damage. Thus you have a better survival rate being shot by a 9mm than an AR.
ARs allow you to pick off concert goers at a fare distance. And because the bullet is traveling mach 2 or better, a number of people can be hit before they can hear the crack of a rifle.
There was an interesting documentary a while back showing the impact patterns of various rounds in block of soft resign that simulated flesh. Pretty stunning visuals.
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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Not all ammo is the same
Feb 18, 2020, 12:26 PM
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A hollow point 9mm will not be very nice to your innards, either. A handgun round is not necessarily more of a puncture wound, you don't load range ammo for self defense. Not only that, the handgun rounds typically provide much more over penetration, which you don't want in a home defense situation. You don't want that 9mm round going through 3-4 walls and hitting your neighbor, you want it to drop. That's where the .223 is a better choice.
The AR allows you to shoot at a greater distance just by virtue of being a rifle. I don't think people have the reaction time and the wherewithal to the point that the speed of the ammo is going to make any discernible difference.
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CU Medallion [56069]
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What advantage does a rifle have indoors?
Feb 18, 2020, 1:08 PM
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In your scenario a .22 caliber handgun would be preferable to a rifle, no? Maybe it depends on the size of your house, but in mine a rifle would be totally impractical.
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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That's what the 10.5" and under short barrel rifles are for
Feb 18, 2020, 1:25 PM
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I prefer a .45 pistol, but my wife is a lot more comfortable/competent with the rifle platform. And she's at home with a baby, so I want her comfortable/competent.
Biggest drawback to the .223 short barrel is the noise and flash...but that's what suppressors are for.
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All-In [26968]
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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You'd ruin more lives than that simply by virtue of
Feb 18, 2020, 11:11 AM
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making thousands of people felons for possessing something that was legally purchased. Pretty asinine way of looking at it.
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All-In [26968]
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Oh, no...my reading of it indicated that
Feb 18, 2020, 11:18 AM
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prior possession would not be illegal.
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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You could possess the 'assault weapon', but it would be a
Feb 18, 2020, 11:31 AM
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felony to say, transport it to the gun range. So it essentially is illegal. The high capacity magazines are the real sticking point, you'd have a year to get rid of anything that holds 12 rounds or more....Which is the vast majority of magazines on the market today. After that, it would be a felony to possess them.
People would be forced to trash most of, if not all of their current firearm magazines or become a felon. No compensation. Same with suppressors, which makes no sense. Frankly, I'm not sure what the uproar about suppressors are, kind of shows just how illogical this all is. It's not about safety at all.
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All-In [26968]
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I'd be for compensating those folks
Feb 18, 2020, 11:36 AM
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Who might be forced to divest of their legally-obtained property.
I don't think the things you described sound unreasonable, in terms of personal cost. There are times when we all have to make certain sacrifices for the good of others. To me, that's true patriotism. Not waving a flag or totin' a gun, or standing for an anthem...but doing what you can to improve the condition of your fellowcitizen.
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110%er [8984]
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Re: I'd be for compensating those folks
Feb 18, 2020, 11:40 AM
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you deserve neither liberty or safety, according to Ben
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All-In [26968]
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Don't know who Ben is...
Feb 18, 2020, 11:43 AM
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But I agree with the Declaration of Independence when it says that "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness" are inalienable, God-given rights.
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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Catching a felony because you've got a 30 round mag
Feb 18, 2020, 11:47 AM
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you forgot about in the tool box is a pretty big infringement on someones life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness.
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Standout [347]
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Catching a felony because you've got a pound of cocaine
Feb 18, 2020, 12:01 PM
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you forgot about is absurd too! Or the rocket launcher you forgot about.
If you possess something illegal, you’re going to face the consequences.
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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Because a pound of cocaine and a 30 round magazine that
Feb 18, 2020, 12:14 PM
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was purchased legally are totally comparable. People with your mindset is why it is so important to fight against stupid laws as much as possible.
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Standout [347]
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If you’re dumb enough to “forget” about something in your glovebox
Feb 18, 2020, 12:52 PM
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that could pop you for a felony, you’ve got bigger problems.
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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Unsurprisingly self righteous take
Feb 18, 2020, 1:03 PM
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If ya ain't doin' nothin' wrong ya ain't got nuthin to worry about!!
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All-In [26968]
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Every day our liberty are infringed upon
Feb 18, 2020, 12:09 PM
[ in reply to Catching a felony because you've got a 30 round mag ] |
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in ways designed to protect the liberty of others, particularly the right to live.
For example, we do not have the liberty to drive any way we want. Our liberty to do so is infringed upon, because we have determined that it is in the interest of the liberties of others to enact those laws.
For a more direct comparison, rocket launchers are illegal for me to own for the same reason. My liberty to own one is overshadowed by the liberties of others around me.
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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Well in this case we have proven with a prior decade
Feb 18, 2020, 12:19 PM
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long ban that my possession of said weapons does not, in fact, have any negative impact on other peoples liberty....So the liberty to own and possess these 'assault weapons' and standard capacity magazines is the only thing being infringed upon.
Also, you can legally own a rocket launcher.
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All-In [26968]
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I'm not sure how we can really know something
Feb 18, 2020, 12:22 PM
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like that, but that is a good reason for not supporting such a ban.
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110%er [8984]
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Re: Don't know who Ben is...
Feb 18, 2020, 11:50 AM
[ in reply to Don't know who Ben is... ] |
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They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin
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All-In [26968]
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Ah, that's a good quote.
Feb 18, 2020, 12:10 PM
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Obviously, we probably disagree on what liberty is "essential". I think owning a firearm is an essential liberty. But I don't think owning any kind of firearm is an essential liberty.
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110%er [8984]
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Re: Ah, that's a good quote.
Feb 18, 2020, 12:28 PM
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thats why it is called the bill of rights and not the bill of wants
crime rates are down while ownership is up, i see no reason to tweak that
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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This does nothing for the good of others. It saves no one
Feb 18, 2020, 11:45 AM
[ in reply to I'd be for compensating those folks ] |
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The only people this impacts are otherwise good, law abiding people that are going to get jammed up because of some arbitrary laws.
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All-In [26968]
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I can see why you wouldn't support it
Feb 18, 2020, 11:48 AM
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if you don't think it would reduce unnecessary deaths. That's logical.
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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The assault weapon ban of the 90's showed that it did not***
Feb 18, 2020, 11:56 AM
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110%er [7026]
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Making another law to curb people from breaking laws
Feb 18, 2020, 2:56 PM
[ in reply to I can see why you wouldn't support it ] |
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that they were already intent on breaking makes absolutely zero sense to me. As said above, the only people affected by this law would be otherwise law abiding citizens.
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All-In [26968]
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I don't really follow that line of thinking...
Feb 18, 2020, 2:57 PM
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In that case, why have any laws, ever?
The reality is that having laws like this will make it more difficult for someone to make bad things happen. It's not about making it never happen. It's about doing our best to make the country the safest, and most free, it can be.
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CU Medallion [56069]
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All-In [42151]
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Also a gun guy...
Feb 18, 2020, 10:20 AM
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And while there were some pretty dumb things said/done by the Dems in VA (like the National Guard comment), the idea that this was a "gun grab" was just more unnecessary NRA-created panic.
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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You weren't paying attention if you thought the NRA had
Feb 18, 2020, 10:23 AM
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anything to do with the movement.
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All-In [42151]
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You haven't paid attention for decades...
Feb 18, 2020, 10:25 AM
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If you think the NRA isn't involved with anything remotely close to this stuff.
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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This isn't 1998, they had nothing to do with any of this
Feb 18, 2020, 10:29 AM
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This was entirely a grassroots effort/protest aided by the VCDL. In fact, the NRA tried to jump on the bandwagon at the last minute and have their own rally which was nowhere near as successful.
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All-In [42151]
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So....
Feb 18, 2020, 10:31 AM
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The largest gun organization in America which has always been actively involved in any gun control legislation efforts just decided to sit out this "gun grab"?
Okay.
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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Yes. They tried to hop on the bandwagon at the last minute
Feb 18, 2020, 10:33 AM
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You guys who think the NRA are the be all end all of gun rights have not been paying attention for the past 3-5 years. It is not an organization in good standing with many gun rights supporters and activists.
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All-In [42151]
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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That's like you saying you were involved in Clemson's
Feb 18, 2020, 10:32 AM
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Natty because you tweeted congratulations to Dabo. No, they did not have anything to do with organizing and leading the movement against these bills. It was almost entirely grassroots and aided by the VCDL.
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All-In [42151]
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I'm sorry, but...
Feb 18, 2020, 10:38 AM
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I wore my lucky clothes during two of our Natties, so, yeah, I deserve a ring.
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All-TigerNet [11196]
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I'm cool with 2a, but NRA is a pox on our society. I'm old
Feb 18, 2020, 10:33 AM
[ in reply to Link... cause they sure think they were involved. ] |
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enough to remember when they did good things like youth gun safety classes. I took an NRA marksmanship class when I was 12. Now they just spread fear and idiocy.
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110%er [6639]
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Re: Also a gun guy...
Feb 18, 2020, 10:42 AM
[ in reply to Also a gun guy... ] |
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If it's not a gun grab.....what is it?
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All-In [42151]
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Copy and paste from your link:
Feb 18, 2020, 11:17 AM
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"The bill made clear that any Virginian who already owned a so-called assault firearm by July 1, 2020, would have been able to keep it."
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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You just can't take it anywhere or do anything with it
Feb 18, 2020, 11:32 AM
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unless you've got a shooting range in your back yard.
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All-TigerNet [12851]
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it just denies constitutional rights to my kids and their
Feb 18, 2020, 12:05 PM
[ in reply to Copy and paste from your link: ] |
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kids.
I had no idea the constitution had an expiration date.
What if i dont own a big bad black rifle yet.....but decide i want one? Now I dont have the same protection under the law that my neighbor does who chose a different transaction date.
14th amendment anyone?
But i guess if you are gonna ignore one, you may as well ignore them all.
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All-In [42151]
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Let's try to follow the string of the conversation...
Feb 18, 2020, 2:46 PM
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He called it a gun grab. I said it wasn't. He asked for proof. I gave it.
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110%er [6639]
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Re: Let's try to follow the string of the conversation...
Feb 18, 2020, 8:33 PM
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Pfftt. Weak sauce.
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110%er [6639]
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Copy and paste from my link
Feb 18, 2020, 12:11 PM
[ in reply to Copy and paste from your link: ] |
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"The original bill would have banned the ownership of all “assault weapons,” but an amendment would change it to only ban sales and transfers of assault firearms. The bill made clear that any Virginian who already owned a so-called assault firearm by July 1, 2020, would have been able to keep it".
It was a gun grab before it was amended.
and the "red flag" bill is another gun grab.
"and a “red flag” bill that would allow authorities to temporarily take guns away from anyone deemed to be dangerous to themselves or others."
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All-In [47750]
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Until anti-gun politicians realize that laws aren't gonna
Feb 18, 2020, 10:54 AM
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criminals from killing people they might as well work on more important issues.
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CU Medallion [56069]
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Criminals like those Columbine kids?
Feb 18, 2020, 11:34 AM
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Or a criminal like Stephen Paddock? Or a criminal like Adam Lanza? Or James Holmes? Bryce Williams? Seung-Hui Cho? Nikolas Cruz?
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All-TigerNet [12851]
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outlawing Psychotropic drugs would have prevented more
Feb 18, 2020, 11:52 AM
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of those crimes than outlawing guns.
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Legend [17285]
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Always a false dichotomy - Do nothing or Ban assault rifles
Feb 18, 2020, 11:50 AM
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Why not something in between? This conversation always goes nowhere. Nothing changes.
I want a tank ... my neighbor wants to ban all weapons including water pistols and plastic knives.
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110%er [8984]
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Re: Always a false dichotomy - Do nothing or Ban assault rifles
Feb 18, 2020, 11:53 AM
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there is already a legal process to change the constitution
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All-TigerNet [12851]
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its so much easier to ignore it***
Feb 18, 2020, 11:55 AM
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Legend [17285]
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States seem to have a lot of room to interpret 2nd Amendment
Feb 18, 2020, 12:35 PM
[ in reply to Re: Always a false dichotomy - Do nothing or Ban assault rifles ] |
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Machine guns are generally highly restricted or not allowed .... but Florida seems to be an exception.
Different requirements for buyer, open carry, concealed carry, campus carry etc.
So if the Constitution strictly defines / limits all lawful gun regulations, most States, gun laws have something unlawful evidenced by lack of uniformity. Of course maybe the Constitution only sets the framework and the States have latitude within that framework.
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All-In [26968]
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The Bill of Rights only limits the government
Feb 18, 2020, 12:42 PM
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It doesn't instruct the government. It just says what the government CAN'T do, not what the government CAN do.
Therefore, it's logical that different states and localities would have different laws, as long as the law isn't something the Constitution says they can't do.
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110%er [8984]
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hope
Feb 18, 2020, 12:37 PM
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RBG retires soon
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