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Legend [15492]
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Read it if you can stomach the truth
Jul 11, 2019, 9:06 PM
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How incompetence torpedoed Trump’s rigging of the census
By Paul Waldman and
Greg Sargent July 11 at 6:11 PM
Given what a farce President Trump made of his effort to rig the 2020 Census in the GOP’s favor, it is appropriate that it ends with the president walking into the Rose Garden after meeting with a group of Internet conspiracy theorists and cranks, then engaging in hollow bluster to obscure an obvious defeat.
In an announcement on Thursday, Trump backed down from his attempt to add a citizenship question to the decennial census.
Of course, Trump didn’t make it sound as though he was backing down. He vowed that he will sign an “executive order" that will direct federal agencies to give the Commerce Department — which oversees the census — records that will detail how many citizens and noncitizens live in the United States.
What that will mean is difficult to say, but one thing it will not mean is that the citizenship question will be added to the census in 2020. It is a victory for the rule of law, since the whole point of adding it was to make the count less accurate, for naked political purposes.
President Trump at the White House on Thursday. (Alex Wong/Getty Images)
At one point during his remarks, Trump seemed to suggest that the citizenship question he wanted would have allowed the government to count the undocumented immigrants in this country; he then bashed Democrats for supposedly not wanting that number revealed — which is ludicrous, since a citizenship question wouldn’t have revealed anything of the sort.
Regardless, after Trump spoke, Attorney General William P. Barr delivered the bad news. Barr tried to sugarcoat it with an unctuous dose of sycophancy, repeatedly congratulating the president for his “effective action,” while announcing that the question will not be added.
In a presidency full of pratfalls and screwups, there have been few efforts characterized by quite the combination of boundless bad faith, obvious dishonesty and sheer incompetence as this one.
Let’s briefly remind ourselves of what a sorry mess this has been, from the beginning.
The Trump administration came into office determined to add the citizenship question to enhance the political power of Republicans and whites, as files from the hard drive of a dead Republican gerrymandering guru who had been advising the administration revealed.
The question would discourage responses from households that include noncitizens, leading to undercounts that would dilute representation and the awarding of federal dollars in those areas — which was the whole point.
Trump himself recently gave up the game when he blurted out that “you need it for Congress for districting.”
In fact, congressional districts are apportioned to states by total population, not by the number of citizens, and then district lines are also drawn using total population. But Republicans have long harbored a desire to use only numbers of citizens for redistricting, because it would allow them to supercharge their gerrymandering efforts and pull power away from urban areas where there are generally lots of Democrats.
Officials couldn’t reveal their real aims, of course, so the administration concocted a cover story that the Justice Department wanted the citizenship question as a way to properly enforce the Voting Rights Act, something about which Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross lied under oath. The administration invoked executive privilege to keep documents about their decision-making under wraps.
After the Supreme Court rejected the attempt to add the question, saying the rationale was “contrived” and sending the matter back to the lower courts — which left open the possibility that administration officials might be able to develop another rationale — lawyers appeared to wave the white flag.
But the president ordered them to fight on.
It’s possible that administration lawyers sabotaged Trump’s effort at this point. They told the lower courts that they were trying to develop a “new rationale” for the citizenship question, which legal experts said actually telegraphed that the new rationale would inevitably be offered in bad faith. That would probably have meant legal defeat.
Indeed, at this point, the administration attempted to swap out its entire legal team, which immediately suggested that the original lawyers on the case didn’t want to continue the fight, precisely because they knew they could only do so by offering the new rationale in bad faith. In any case, a judge rejected that effort.
Meanwhile, the Census forms have already started to be printed.
Could the administration possibly have handled this affair in a more buffoonish way? It’s difficult to imagine how. Perhaps we should be thankful that they were so incompetent, because otherwise they might have gotten away with it.
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CU Medallion [59967]
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Re: Read it if you can stomach the truth
Jul 11, 2019, 9:14 PM
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No one who considers themselves a true journalist would have written the first paragraph. The bias is so evident, it’s embarrassing, even for you.
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Oculus Spirit [93567]
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Felix can't be embarrassed.
Jul 11, 2019, 9:15 PM
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He's way too stubborn for that.
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Legend [15492]
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Re: Felix can't be embarrassed.
Jul 12, 2019, 1:28 PM
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It's not stubbornness my friend, it's conviction. 
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All-In [47560]
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Heisman Winner [137634]
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Legend [15492]
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Re: Read it if you can stomach the truth
Jul 12, 2019, 1:26 PM
[ in reply to Re: Read it if you can stomach the truth ] |
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It's not a news story, it's an opinion piece.
At least you read part of it.
Hey look over there!! It's Hillary and Barack!!
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Oculus Spirit [93567]
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You didn't watch the speech and neither did the writer.
Jul 11, 2019, 9:14 PM
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If you had you'd know the EO is signed and all the bureaus which will provide the data were formally put on notice thereby. Barr even congratulated him on the move.
Just like the collusion delusion you suffered for 2 1/2 years I'll just say 'Hide and watch.' Pubs have been laughing at you guys since 2016 and you're continuing your hilarious and entertaining delusions.
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Legend [15492]
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Re: You didn't watch the speech and neither did the writer.
Jul 12, 2019, 1:27 PM
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If you had you'd know the EO is signed and all the bureaus which will provide the data were formally put on notice thereby. Barr even congratulated him on the move.
Just like the collusion delusion you suffered for 2 1/2 years I'll just say 'Hide and watch.' Pubs have been laughing at you guys since 2016 and you're continuing your hilarious and entertaining delusions.
You seem to think if you say a thing enough then it will come true.
The Mueller report did not exonerate Trump. It didn't conclude there was no collusion.
It did conclude THERE WAS Collussion.
What part of that is so hard to grasp? You continue to repeat Trump lies as if they were true.
They are not.
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Oculus Spirit [93567]
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Why are the poosies in your party refusing to impeach if...
Jul 13, 2019, 9:31 AM
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Trump is guilty of crimes? You read this if you can handle the truth...
Mueller needed motive to find Trump guilty of obstruction, why did he not subpoena Trump? He knew the courts would refuse to order Trump to testify because there is no underlying crime. In fact there was no pretext or rather reason for the investigation. Mueller and that group of henchmen make that perfectly clear when they reported no conspiracy, the proved there was no pretext for the investigation.
Trump was guilty of obstruct alright. Trump obstructed injustice by submitting 1.5 million document and instructing anyone and everyone to testify. Obstruction of injustice.
Yes, we are going to find out just how many illegals are here. Hide and watch.
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Legend [15492]
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Re: Why are the poosies in your party refusing to impeach if...
Jul 14, 2019, 12:08 PM
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Trump is guilty of crimes? You read this if you can handle the truth...
Mueller needed motive to find Trump guilty of obstruction, why did he not subpoena Trump? He knew the courts would refuse to order Trump to testify because there is no underlying crime. In fact there was no pretext or rather reason for the investigation. Mueller and that group of henchmen make that perfectly clear when they reported no conspiracy, the proved there was no pretext for the investigation.
Trump was guilty of obstruct alright. Trump obstructed injustice by submitting 1.5 million document and instructing anyone and everyone to testify. Obstruction of injustice.
Yes, we are going to find out just how many illegals are here. Hide and watch.
My friend, that is a good recitation of Fox News, ZeroHedge, TheBlaze,Brietbart,ConservativeTreeHouse and other assorted right wing sites.
Unfortunately it isn't true. I would like for you to explain to me how a Republican controlled Senate, House and White House allowed a rogue investigation and prosecutor, who was appointed by a Republican acting Atty Gen'l who himself was appointed by Trump himself, to exist and continue unabaited for 2 years?
How inept and incompetent the entire Administration, Justice Department, the Judiciary Committee, the Oversight Committee and the Intelligence Committee, all controlled by Trump supporting Republicans must be to sit back and allow all of this illegality under their very noses.
The fact is they didn't.
Trump supporters willingness to believe the incredible marches on.
That is "The Trump Effect". You gonna believe him or your lying eyes?
Peace to you my friend.
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Legend [15492]
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Re: Why are the poosies in your party refusing to impeach if...
Jul 14, 2019, 12:22 PM
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It is further significant that the paper is not peer reviewed and contains multiple flaws. Why conservative's cling to the whole no Climate change idea is beyond me. The Republicans and fossil fuel industry have managed to make climate denial a cornerstone of conservatism.
It makes no sense at all. How is climate change political?
You really, really can't trust right-wing zerohedge to give you accurate info any more than you can trust Rachel Maddow on MSNBC.
"Non-peer-reviewed manuscript falsely claims natural cloud changes can explain global warming"
https://climatefeedback.org/claimreview/non-peer-reviewed-manuscript-falsely-claims-natural-cloud-changes-can-explain-global-warming/
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Legend [15492]
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Re: Why are the poosies in your party refusing to impeach if...
Jul 14, 2019, 12:24 PM
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Sorry, posted on wrong thread.
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CU Medallion [58311]
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All I see is an obviously agenda-driven, totally biased
Jul 11, 2019, 9:18 PM
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opinion piece. Any brush with the truth is purely accidental.
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Legend [15492]
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Re: All I see is an obviously agenda-driven, totally biased
Jul 12, 2019, 1:35 PM
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opinion piece. Any brush with the truth is purely accidental.
The President of the United States and his Party tried to rig the U.S. Census. The Supreme Court stopped them.
And your ok with that because he's your guy. If Obama had done something similar....
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110%er [5854]
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Recruit [85]
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Re: Read it if you can stomach the truth
Jul 11, 2019, 9:50 PM
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Putting aside the tactics, can someone explain to me the rationale for why apportionment of funds and representation should include non-citizens? Seems fundamental that citizenship and attendant obligations (e.g., paying taxes) should be a prerequisite to inclusion in the per capita count.
Honestly trying to understand the underlying controversy.
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110%er [5854]
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Legend [15492]
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Re: Read it if you can stomach the truth
Jul 12, 2019, 1:34 PM
[ in reply to Re: Read it if you can stomach the truth ] |
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For one, there are literally millions of perfectly legal green card holders who await the opportunity to apply for citizenship. There are residency requirements that must be met. My daughter just got her citizenship last month. My wife and 2 step children are Dominican.
Further, if your going to repair roads, shouldn't you have a good idea how many people are going to use them? Wear and tear.
Finally, the Constitution requires a counting of all people, except non-taxed Indians.
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Oculus Spirit [97633]
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Stopped at second sentence.
Jul 11, 2019, 9:55 PM
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When someone strings together two sentences like that, truth is not going to be forthcoming.
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Legend [17999]
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Didn't read the title?***
Jul 11, 2019, 10:17 PM
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Legend [15492]
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Re: Stopped at second sentence.
Jul 12, 2019, 1:30 PM
[ in reply to Stopped at second sentence. ] |
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Head in the sand is not a good look for you Tiggity.
Read it but be warned, it's full of fact that you won't like.
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110%er [6101]
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You fail to remember
Jul 13, 2019, 7:56 AM
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Obama removed the citizenship question from the census in 2010. Trump’s only putting it back, much to the chagrin of Chief Justice Roberts who (as you know) didn’t rule that the question of citizenship was unconstitutional (how could he since it’s always been there?). Instead he ruled that the matter was “contrived”. You might want to look that word up because Roberts basically said he didn’t like the REASON for adding the question, not the purpose of it being included. If this isn’t proof that he’s allowing his political views to supersede his judicial impartiality I don’t know what is.
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CU Guru [1405]
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Re: You fail to remember
Jul 14, 2019, 9:31 AM
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There was no citizenship question on the 2000 census, you useless kook.
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Legend [19879]
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I don't mind them asking the question. I would like to know
Jul 13, 2019, 8:43 AM
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the actual #s, if the official estimates are really that far off.
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