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Orange Blooded [2023]
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A couple facts about BB....
Mar 14, 2021, 2:02 PM
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I see people complaining about GT winning the ACC and FSU being in the championship...
Facts to consider
- Hamilton has been at FSU long time and not always been successful
- Florida has significantly more basketball talent than South Carolina
- Atlanta alone has more basketball talent than the whole state of South Carolina
Not necessarily defending Brownell ..but we can’t ignore some realities....
Clemson needs to take the best South Carolina has to offer every year ....
We don’t ...the state is routinely cherry picked by other programs...and this has been the case for years ..not just with Brownell
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Commissioner [923]
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Re: A couple facts about BB....
Mar 14, 2021, 2:09 PM
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So one of your facts about BB is he can’t recruit the in-state talent?
Is that supposed to be a good thing about BB?
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Orange Blooded [4030]
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Re: A couple facts about BB....
Mar 14, 2021, 2:13 PM
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20 years ago,I would have agreed with your assertion.
But look at the teams and where they are from.
GT had one starter from Ga and not from Atlanta. 2-ny, 1 NC, 1, Fl, 1 ga. 2 off the bench were ga. 1 of those from Atlanta smsa. He scored 5 points.
FSU - has 5 players from Florida.
These days, players will leave area and state.
I agree if we could keep best of SC, it would help.
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Legend [17227]
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Re: A couple facts about BB....
Mar 14, 2021, 2:15 PM
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Those same facts hold true for football. It's a good thing Coach Swinney did not use those excuses in his program.
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All-In [27348]
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Re: A couple facts about BB....
Mar 14, 2021, 2:24 PM
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Clemson wasn’t recruiting well in S.C. long before Brownell arrived. There is a long list of very good players who ended up at UNC or WF or other programs. Felton comes to mind. I personally discussed this with Bill Foster and Larry Shyatt and they both told me that they couldn’t match the promises the kids were getting from other schools! One particular kid who I can’t remember by name choose WF over Clemson because they had a med school. I asked Foster if he was that good a student and he smiled and said “not that good”! They kid was a super play for the Deacs..... but never went to med school. Coach BB has brought on some good kids and appears to me to improving.
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CU Guru [1694]
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Far too many out of state schools offer in-state talent
Mar 14, 2021, 2:49 PM
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more opportunity to play in the tournament, play in historically more successful programs, and chart what appears to be a better life course.
This is BB's 11th season and will be his 3rd NCAA tournament bid, one year ranked in the end of season AP rankings at 20, no ACC championship tournament game appearances, an ACC Tourney seed higher than 7th ony 3 times and his teams have lost in their 1st games in the tournament 8 of 11 seasons... his 4 ACC tournament game wins are the most of any coach in Clemson history but that includes 2 wins in one season but that did not result in a championship game appearance.
For me, he's just as mediocre as our history has been, and not improving the team success. I've read all of the debates about improving talent, but improved talent is what they have in Cooterville, but that also got Frank Martin an agreement to part ways, if the chatter is true...
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Far too many out of state schools offer in-state talent
Mar 14, 2021, 2:57 PM
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more opportunity to play in the tournament, play in historically more successful programs, and chart what appears to be a better life course.
This is BB's 11th season and will be his 3rd NCAA tournament bid, one year ranked in the end of season AP rankings at 20, no ACC championship tournament game appearances, an ACC Tourney seed higher than 7th ony 3 times and his teams have lost in their 1st games in the tournament 8 of 11 seasons... his 4 ACC tournament game wins are the most of any coach in Clemson history but that includes 2 wins in one season but that did not result in a championship game appearance.
For me, he's just as mediocre as our history has been, and not improving the team success. I've read all of the debates about improving talent, but improved talent is what they have in Cooterville, but that also got Frank Martin an agreement to part ways, if the chatter is true...
And brownell has significantly improved recruiting since we improved our facilities. Let’s see what he can do now that he has better talent. Brownell is on thin ice in my book, but let’s see what he can do. This year, he easily made the tournament. Let’s see if he continues to improve next year.
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110%er [6967]
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Re: Far too many out of state schools offer in-state talent
Mar 14, 2021, 3:21 PM
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Yes he definitely needs more time, I think 15 years is just long enough to evaluate a head Coach
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CU Medallion [58313]
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Bottom line ... there are a million reasons that we can't
Mar 14, 2021, 3:37 PM
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be successful in basketball, and we can buy into some or all of them, or we can say to #### with it, and go about the business of being better.
As to your specific points:
In years 7, 8, 9, and 10 at FSU (four consecutive years), Hamilton finished 4th, 3rd, 3rd, and 3rd in the ACC, and made the NCAA tournament each of those years, including a Sweet 16 and Round Of 32. That is a level of consistent excellence that Brownell has not approached.
As for Florida and Atlanta being recruiting hotbeds compared to Clemson SC, neither FSU or GT have traditionally relied on their back yards for talent or success in general. It's nonsense to suggest that we can't recriut with great success outside of our immediate geographical region anyway. We do it in football, and we did it long before Dabo built the program into a national brand. Frank Howard's teams were loaded with guys from New Jersey, Pennsylvania, and Ohio. If we can get good football players here from all over, from big cities to farm country, the problem isn't geographical or cultural, the problem is salesmanship.
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All-TigerNet [12942]
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I’m no BB defender... but he is also 3-2 in NCAAT games
Mar 14, 2021, 3:39 PM
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at Clemson in 2 trips.
We’ll see how prepared we are this go round
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All-In [38397]
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Re: A couple facts about BB....
Mar 14, 2021, 3:49 PM
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I once was a huge fan of all college basketball, now not so much unless Clemson is in the game.
In my short life time, Tigers have been "less" at this sport most years, but have had some great days.
I go back to the times the Mahaffey brothers anchored our TIGER teams.
The games then were in the old Field House and free to students. It was a great venue, no one ever sat down, but stood on the seats.
Clemson Basketball has always been fun, but winning has always been hard.
Many reasons are put out there, but most don't hold river water.
I don't understand why that is.
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Orange Blooded [4086]
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Re: A couple facts about BB....
Mar 14, 2021, 3:59 PM
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Without violating NCAA rules, or without appearing to violate NCAA rules, UNC/Duke and others can offer players more than Clemson can and that's without considering the history and the likelihood of team success and the former players in the NBA.
If you had a kid who was a D1 basketball prospect and he was offered by UNC and Clemson, how would you possibly push him towards Clemson?
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All-In [38397]
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Re: A couple facts about BB....
Mar 14, 2021, 4:16 PM
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I completely agree.
On the flip, UNC/Duke does not have room for all.
It has been very hard for Clemson to attract 5star talent.
The same used to be true in football.
How to improve Tiger Basketball has been a puzzle for decades. I have no answer.
The big deal is more talent. Kids at Duke and UNC enter for 1 or 2 years and are done. They are not there for a degree (or even to attend classes) (see UNCheat).
Tigers need to ID potential talent and develop kids over 4 years. Over decades that aint worked too well.
Coach Brownell has been as good as most here.
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Orange Blooded [2023]
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Re: A couple facts about BB....
Mar 14, 2021, 4:22 PM
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I should’ve been clear..
I’m talking about Basket Ball...
Not Brad Brownell....
These are general facts ...
Some have rightfully pointed out that GT and FSU have pulled in some out of state talent ...
And that’s a fair point for their current rosters ..
However if your talent base starts at your home state - even if those guys are on the bench ...
Teams in Texas, Florida, Georgia etc are always in a better spot than a South Carolina based team...
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