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110%er [9105]
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Looks like the red wave is rolling!
Nov 3, 2021, 9:27 AM
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I told my wife, after Biden won the election last year, that two things would happen:
(1) the Dems would assume this meant that all of the US was on board with them and they would proceed to take things too far to the left too fast and end up alienating the all-important independents and middle-ground voters who didn't vote for Biden so much as they voted against Trump; and
(2) as a result, the GOP would win more governorships, would win back the House (next year) and would win back the presidency and Senate.
They're so cocky and arrogant that they only see what they want to see, and only believe what they say themselves through their mouthpieces on CNN and MSNBC, which means they have no idea what most Americans really want and believe.
The only way the GOP loses the presidency next time around is if Trump runs again. No Trump, the GOP wins. No contest. There are several great potential nominees that could easily defeat Biden. And by that time, we'll have won back the House and maybe the Senate as well.
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110%er [8984]
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Re: Looks like the red wave is rolling!
Nov 3, 2021, 9:28 AM
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trump is running so pull your bonnet down tight
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Heisman Winner [137905]
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Oh yeah?
Nov 3, 2021, 9:38 AM
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Well, I told my wife, after Trump won the election in 2016, that two things would happen:
(1) the Pubs would assume this meant that all of the US was on board with them and they would proceed to take things too far to the right too fast and end up alienating the all-important independents and middle-ground voters who didn't vote for Trump so much as they voted against Hillary; and
(2) as a result, the Dems would win more governorships, would win back the House (next year) and would win back the presidency and Senate.
They're so cocky and arrogant that they only see what they want to see, and only believe what they say themselves through their mouthpieces on FOX and Breitbart, which means they have no idea what most Americans really want and believe.
The only way the Dems loses the presidency next time around is if Hillary runs again. No Hillary, the Dems wins. No contest. There are several great potential nominees that could easily defeat Trump. And by that time, we'll have won back the House and maybe the Senate as well.
Rinse. Repeat.
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110%er [9105]
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Re: Oh yeah?
Nov 3, 2021, 9:42 AM
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It's always cyclical, but the Biden administration and the Dems in Congress are going way further left than any administration or Congress before them. If the GOP puts in someone like Haley or Noem or any other number of good candidates, they'll do well and won't go nuts on pushing agendas that no one wants but will still do so just because they can.
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Heisman Winner [137905]
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No, they're really not.
Nov 3, 2021, 9:43 AM
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You just think they are.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: No, they're really not.
Nov 3, 2021, 10:09 AM
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Heisman Winner [137905]
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Is that so? What did I do?***
Nov 3, 2021, 10:12 AM
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Is that so? What did I do?***
Nov 3, 2021, 10:15 AM
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Heisman Winner [137905]
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Oh. Now I clearly see what I did to influence this
Nov 3, 2021, 10:21 AM
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administration and the general populace and their opinions therein.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Oh. Now I clearly see what I did to influence this
Nov 3, 2021, 10:23 AM
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All-In [42151]
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All-In [42151]
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People like him are not the reason they're losing.
Nov 3, 2021, 10:38 AM
[ in reply to Re: No, they're really not. ] |
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No person on this board is the reason the Dems are losing. The Dems are losing due to their own actions and the incompetency of this presidency. People stating their opinions don't have any control over this. And 19B is right; this group is not the most leftist we've seen.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: People like him are not the reason they're losing.
Nov 3, 2021, 10:41 AM
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All-In [42151]
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That's quite a segue
Nov 3, 2021, 10:43 AM
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And irrelevant to the point. Not sure why it warrants name-calling. I'm not sure how you think people making statements like his somehow affected any election results yesterday. What led to yesterday was the current incompetency of the Dems and the usual cyclical changing of party power. Happens every election cycle.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: That's quite a segue
Nov 3, 2021, 10:48 AM
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All-In [42151]
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Re: That's quite a segue
Nov 3, 2021, 11:56 AM
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A lot of that spending is a bipartisan infrastructure bill. And if excessive spending is a litmus test of being "far left," then the past several GOP presidencies have been as well. Especially Trump.
Biden has always operated as a moderate. And I get confused; sometimes y'all say he's a puppet, other times y'all say it's all him.
Now, I'll definitely entertain the notion that far left people are pulling his strings.
Defund police. Put parents in jail. Money for illegals.
The Biden administration has specifically said this? Or fought for this? Would you mind giving me a link or a quote?
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: That's quite a segue
Nov 3, 2021, 12:48 PM
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All-In [42151]
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Trump's/GOP's outrageous spending came before COVID.
Nov 3, 2021, 12:55 PM
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Links provided upon request.
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Heisman Winner [137905]
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So the trillion dollar pre-pandemic deficit during
Nov 3, 2021, 1:08 PM
[ in reply to Re: That's quite a segue ] |
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"the greatest economy the country has ever seen" was...imagined?
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Rock Defender [53]
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I will answer both of you Dems here
Nov 3, 2021, 1:26 PM
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All-In [42151]
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But he did increase spending, no?
Nov 3, 2021, 2:45 PM
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That's the point. Trump never was a fiscal conservative. He was a bald-faced liar in that regard.
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All-In [31890]
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While you may be correct....
Nov 3, 2021, 1:18 PM
[ in reply to Re: That's quite a segue ] |
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please don't act like Trump gave a sheet about federal spending and fiscal discipline. The budget deficit grew dramatically under his administration each year...not just COVID/2020.
He did NOTHING to reign in spending or to reshape the federal government's role/budget. Absolutely nothing.
Budget Deficit by Year in Billions
2016 $585
2017 $665
2018 $779
2019 $984
2020 $3,100
2021 $3,000
Now sure, some of the expensive programs were in place prior to him taking office...but what did he change? What did he try to change of any consequence??
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Rock Defender [53]
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I am correct and Trump is no longer President.***
Nov 3, 2021, 1:29 PM
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All-In [31890]
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You mentioned his record/history....you don't think...
Nov 3, 2021, 2:16 PM
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the deficit during his term has any bearing on the discussion?
What was reluctant in terms of Trump's budgets?
Why would you mention Trump and then say "he's no longer President"?
Or are you admitting he was bad on fiscal discipline, but the current dems are much worse? I would agree with that statement, by the way.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: You mentioned his record/history....you don't think...
Nov 3, 2021, 2:27 PM
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All-In [31890]
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He should have taken on SS/Medicare...just as any POTUS...
Nov 3, 2021, 2:43 PM
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should.
He should have led the way in slashing the discretionary federal budget.
But anyways....
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All-In [42151]
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Heisman Winner [137905]
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Is CRT related to communism somehow?
Nov 3, 2021, 11:10 AM
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Heisman Winner [137905]
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I don't think that's correct, either.
Nov 3, 2021, 11:14 AM
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CantWinInVa Race Theory doesn't make much sense at all.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: I don't think that's correct, either.
Nov 3, 2021, 11:16 AM
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Heisman Winner [137905]
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Oh, wait. Are you operating under the impression
Nov 3, 2021, 11:18 AM
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that I'm heavily invested in the Virginia gubernatorial race? Or binary team politics in general? You're right. I'M SO ANGRY RIGHT NOW ABOUT THAT THING THAT HAPPENED. IT IMPACTS ME SO MUCH AND WHATNOT.
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Rock Defender [53]
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It’s just the start
Nov 3, 2021, 11:24 AM
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Heisman Winner [137905]
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Oh, man.
Nov 3, 2021, 11:25 AM
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I bet it's gonna be crazy.
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All-In [42151]
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Rock Defender [53]
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Yes I do.
Nov 3, 2021, 12:00 PM
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All-In [42151]
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Well, in that case
Nov 3, 2021, 12:02 PM
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I don't think you realize that this is basically just, say, like the Army/Navy rivalry. Pretty even and very cyclical. One side will win big one election season; the other side will come roaring back the next time.
That's just how it works.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Well, in that case
Nov 3, 2021, 12:11 PM
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All-In [42151]
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Are you surprised?
Nov 3, 2021, 12:39 PM
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How many times over history have the Dems had it all in the bag and then just fumbled all over themselves?
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All-In [31890]
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Wait a minute...the 2nd "soft infrastructure"....
Nov 3, 2021, 12:52 PM
[ in reply to No, they're really not. ] |
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or whatever stupid term they're using for it now...bill represented the largest shift in federal social policy/safety net since the New Deal. It was originated and negotiated well outside of normal order...no committee hearings, all wrapped up into one huge bill, etc... To say that that didn't/doesn't represent a huge shift to the left is just simply not correct, in my opinion.
Also, letting the far left wing of the party hold up the infrastructure bill vote until/unless this other huge package gets a vote is also a cave to the far left.
The dems handling of this whole thing has been a sheet show from the beginning.
The "smaller" version is still a huge shift to the left in terms of the role of federal government.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Okay I’m gonna have to admit
Nov 3, 2021, 12:55 PM
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Legend [18021]
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It's been a sheet show b/c of how large a tent dems are
Nov 3, 2021, 4:37 PM
[ in reply to Wait a minute...the 2nd "soft infrastructure".... ] |
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you don't have the small tent team mentality of the republicans. That's always been the disadvantage for dems. Right now they have the more left parts of the party fighting with the more moderate and conservative parts (namely Sinema and Manchin) on the size of the bill.
But those are procedural arguments, what of the bill do you see as being "leftist" to the point of concern?
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: It's been a sheet show b/c of how large a tent dems are
Nov 3, 2021, 4:47 PM
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Legend [18021]
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Not completely wrong, but on the flip side...
Nov 3, 2021, 5:11 PM
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All-In [31890]
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Pretty much the whole bill....
Nov 3, 2021, 5:00 PM
[ in reply to It's been a sheet show b/c of how large a tent dems are ] |
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To name a few:
Federal mandated and paid for 12 weeks paid time off
Federally paid for community college
Federally paid for pre-school
Federally paid for child care
Civilian climate corps
Huge tax on natural gas
Green energy tax credits on a huge scale
Expansion of federally subsidized health insurance premiums
Expansion of child tax credit
It's a huge expansion of federal involvement in things that aren't roles granted to the federal government in the constitution.
Federal government directly building more "affordable housing"
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Legend [18021]
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Some of that has already been dropped out of the bill
Nov 3, 2021, 5:15 PM
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I know paid community college and paid time off have been slashed, for example.
Federal involvement in taxes is pretty well documented so not sure how that's outside their role.
But I get your point, coming from where you are and how you view government's role I can see how the bill would be seen as 'leftist'.
I think if you polled people on the individual components of the bill, the vast majority of the things it addresses would be popular. Similar to how the ACA polled negatively but when broken down to the individual parts it polled positively. It comes down to messaging and the Dems suck at that.
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All-In [31890]
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Yes, some is already out of the bill, but that....
Nov 4, 2021, 8:06 AM
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wasn't the point. Those issues are out of the bill now due to 2 centrist Senators and for no other reason. They very much were in the original bill and supported by the overwhelming majority of D's in Congress and illustrate the original point of dem over-reach after the election.
On taxes, my comments on role of federal gov wasn't to taxing function per se, but I think the federal government using tax credits as a way to force policy is wrong (when it's done by either side).
Even for "leftists" the bill is "leftist"...I think that's the whole point. The far left holding out to finally get the idea of their role of government instituted in law at the federal level.
I try to respect all well-reasoned positions...but I have a hard time respecting the position that the federal government ought to pay for every child to go to pre-school and/or community college or child care. Surely that makes a lot more sense to do at the state and local level.
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Legend [18021]
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Fair enough
Nov 4, 2021, 7:20 PM
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From your political ideology, I understand being concerned about the federal-led initiatives.
I'd argue that this was always going to be the course of the bill. It has big ideas and proposals that then get widdled down to resemble something of a compromise between progressive ideals and more centrist objectives. As someone who leans left, I find a progressive-centrist mix the ideal path because I find the conservative ideology built around being "regressive" where it works for a minority of people at the expense of the majority (typically rich at cost of middle class/working class) unproductive (this is a very simplified argument).
I also see the federal government as an extension of government for the people by the people so if they can be progressive and not regressive, I'm much more able to support those initiatives but as an extension, they must still work with state/local governments.
Also, the majority of students who go to community college receive their tuition for free through federal and state aid as do many pre-school children. I understand the argument about how do we pay for these extensions of monetary aid as that's a practical and pragmatic concern. But from an ideological standpoint, if more people have access to education (early, secondary, post-secondary) that's good for the country.
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110%er [5675]
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Re: Oh yeah?
Nov 3, 2021, 2:48 PM
[ in reply to Oh yeah? ] |
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When did half the population quit wanting lower taxes and cheaper gas?
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All-TigerNet [12246]
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If the GOP reverts back to a Romney, Bush, McCain, Ryan
Nov 3, 2021, 9:41 AM
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type Republican establishment squish as the nominee in 2024, the GOP is guaranteed to lose. Never underestimate the stupidity of the establishment GOP and their ability to turn an opportunity into a defeat.
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110%er [9105]
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Re: If the GOP reverts back to a Romney, Bush, McCain, Ryan
Nov 3, 2021, 10:05 AM
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Nah, even that won't lose the election for them, but it wouldn't be a good administration. We need someone who has the Trump-type attitude of not caring about being popular in the Beltway or in the media, but balanced with someone who understands that you also can't alienate everyone who doesn't believe 100% the same way you do. The goal is the end, not that everyone agree on the means. That's why I think governors like Haley or Noem would be good, or even DeSantis, though he hasn't shown any inclination yet that he'd be running. Definitely no Romney or McCain, though.
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110%er [8984]
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Re: If the GOP reverts back to a Romney, Bush, McCain, Ryan
Nov 3, 2021, 11:45 AM
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haley is establishment , professional politician
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110%er [5675]
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Re: If the GOP reverts back to a Romney, Bush, McCain, Ryan
Nov 3, 2021, 2:53 PM
[ in reply to Re: If the GOP reverts back to a Romney, Bush, McCain, Ryan ] |
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A LOT can happen in a short two years. Just think about the G Floyd situation popping up randomly out of nowhere. Similar thing with the Loudon Cty school people being outed as dishonest zealots.
There will be at least one and maybe more major events between now and then. What will they be?
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All-In [31461]
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Re: If the GOP reverts back to a Romney, Bush, McCain, Ryan
Nov 3, 2021, 12:43 PM
[ in reply to If the GOP reverts back to a Romney, Bush, McCain, Ryan ] |
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I totally disagree, and last night was evidence to the contrary. Moderate non-MAGA Republicans are exactly what people want right now.
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110%er [6692]
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Re: If the GOP reverts back to a Romney, Bush, McCain, Ryan
Nov 4, 2021, 5:39 PM
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I completely agree with you.
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All-In [31890]
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Not sure how you lump Paul Ryan into that list...
Nov 3, 2021, 1:09 PM
[ in reply to If the GOP reverts back to a Romney, Bush, McCain, Ryan ] |
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the term "establishment" is a funny word to me. It's like it means more than actual policy positions/resume.
Paul Ryan would be infinitely more preferable by any true political conservative and certainly more electable than Trump, if we're talking about 2024.
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All-TigerNet [12246]
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Paul Ryan would not get elected because he is a globalist
Nov 4, 2021, 5:33 PM
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who failed to act on an American First agenda when he had the opportunity. Ryan wholly embraces the interventionist DC foreign policy establishment and the corporate chamber of commerce whose policies have crushed the US manufacturing base and turned small town America into hollow shells of their former prospering lives. Besides, Ryan has already been a part of a national ticket and failed miserably.
If the GOP nominates someone with the globalist establishment GOP stink on them (Romney, Ryan, Bush etc...) they will not get enough of the Conservative base to show up at the polls. These DC insider Republicans of the Bulwark/Lincoln Project variety have been thoroughly exposed as conservative frauds that are all talk and no action. While some conservatives would hold their nose and make a pragmatic choice to vote for a Republican squish as a lessor evil (the greater evil being a Marxist kowtowing Democratic candidate), a significant portion of conservatives will just not vote at all. The last 2 Republican squishes (McCain and Romney) proved they cannot get the conservative base out in the numbers required to get a Republican Presidential win. If Jeb Bush had been the Republican nominee in 2016, we would be in Hillary's second term right now...
The majority of Conservative Republicans believe Trump has the right policy positions - "America First". However, Trump's inability to control his mouth turns a lot of people off including suburban women - a key demographic needed to win. That is why I would rather see Ron DeSantis as the 2024 GOP nominee. You get the America First agenda and someone that doesn't back down from the media or his opponents but does so with a level of discipline that doesn't alienate whole blocks of voters.
Having said that, I find it funny when a lot of people on here assume Trump is an automatic loser should he get the GOP nomination again in 2024. In 2020 Trump got the highest percentage of non-white votes of any Republican in 60 years while garnering more total votes than any Republican in history. The one thing about Trump's support is that it hasn't waned and is as strong today (if not more) as it was a year ago. Additionally, in 2024 Biden/Harris will have to run on a governing record that in one year is already about to surpass Jimmy Carter's level of incompetence and bad results. Having lived through the Carter years, a President with a loud mouth is a small trade off to get an economy that is thriving, energy independence, a sane immigration policy, and policies whose main consideration is NOT how it furthers cultural Marxism.
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Oculus Spirit [97714]
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Cognitive madisonianism has been working for 2+ centuries
Nov 3, 2021, 10:12 AM
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now. Wouldn't expect it to end. Just the two options now have never been more extreme in a long time.
And neither cuts spending or addresses debt, as that doesn't sell.
I too hope the GOP can shake Trump and lose their cocky arrogance. Maybe be the responsible adults in the room once again.
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All-In [42151]
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I love how this board does this
Nov 3, 2021, 10:37 AM
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And that goes for Pub and Dem supporters alike.
It's always "Looks like the Red/Blue Wave is rolling in!"
As if this isn't a cyclical thing every election.
History shows that the party that dominates going into an election generally loses major ground in that election.
You predicted nothing. This happens all the time. The GOP will take power again, and then when the next election comes, they'll get booted as well by the "blue wave".
Because again... moderates/independents run this ####.
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110%er [5675]
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Re: I love how this board does this
Nov 3, 2021, 2:54 PM
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Easy to predict. Like the stock market.
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Orange Blooded [4679]
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Joined: 4/11/20
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Re: I love how this board does this
Nov 4, 2021, 12:58 PM
[ in reply to I love how this board does this ] |
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Seems that moderates/ independents don’t really have a clue what they stand for. Seriously, for a second. The 2 parties are so polar opposite now that’s there’s just no way anyone could be undecided between a Republican or democrat vote the way things are now. If you’re a democrat or Republican at least you can articulate what you stand for. The moderate looks in the mirror then walks away and immediately forgets what he looks like.
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All-In [42151]
TigerPulse: 100%
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I suppose that's one silly way to look at it.
Nov 4, 2021, 12:26 PM
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What it really means is we think for ourselves, don't fall lock step in with a party that could give two ##### about us, and understand that political ideology isn't black and white but has a lot of gray area.
But get salty, cause we run this ####. Yes, we do.
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Orange Blooded [4679]
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Joined: 4/11/20
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Re: I suppose that's one silly way to look at it.
Nov 4, 2021, 4:04 PM
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I’m not being salty and I don’t think it’s a silly way to look at things. I know what I stand for and the Democratic Party is so far away that a middle seems impossible. But go ahead and straddle your fence.
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110%er [6692]
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Re: I love how this board does this
Nov 4, 2021, 4:11 PM
[ in reply to Re: I love how this board does this ] |
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I can articulate what I support and don't support and you don't have to be in either party to do that.
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Orange Blooded [4679]
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Re: I love how this board does this
Nov 4, 2021, 4:16 PM
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I understand that but you would have a pretty confusing value system.
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110%er [6692]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Joined: 10/6/21
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Re: I love how this board does this
Nov 4, 2021, 5:45 PM
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I don't think so. I think it's hard to have a value system and blindly follow either party. People with a value system look at the candidates and what they have to say. I have no idea who I will vote for in 2024, unless of course if Trump is on the ticket, who I would never vote for. It all comes down to how extreme the candidates are. I want professional moderates.
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Orange Blooded [4679]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 4/11/20
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Re: I love how this board does this
Nov 4, 2021, 8:19 PM
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Honestly, I would love to be able to look at the individual candidates but the democrats have gone so socialist that voting for one of them is just not possible for me.
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110%er [6692]
TigerPulse: 97%
Posts: 6139
Joined: 10/6/21
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Re: Looks like the red wave is rolling!
Nov 4, 2021, 4:09 PM
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The Dems thought it was a mandate from the voters supporting their ideas or what not. They didn't realize that the Dems aren't popular and people were just voting Trump out. I think most people are tired of the PC/woke politics. The Dems will get rolled over in 2022.
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