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Excuse of the Coach Brownell apologists
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Replies: 39  

Excuse of the Coach Brownell apologists

emoji_events [18]
Mar 11, 2022, 6:32 AM

One excuse I hear for keeping Coach Brownell is that we couldn't get anybody better, and that if we happened to find a good coach, they would leave after a couple of years. Coach Brownell has been here for 12 years. With that reasoning, aren't they telling us that they know Brownell is not a good coach and they just don't care?

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Re: Excuse of the Coach Brownell apologists

[3]
Mar 11, 2022, 7:05 AM

Just keep expectations low. We do not have the funds, facilities are sub par and this is a football school. 17-16 is above expectations and we finished ahead of the so called experts predictions in the ACC. Yes we cannot find anyone better just pay this guy and enjoy the ride. No seriously I could careless either way seeing I have nothing to do with the decision making inside of Clemson athletics but I do get your point and added a few of what will be heard from an apologists.

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MEG


Re: Excuse of the Coach Brownell apologists

[4]
Mar 11, 2022, 7:24 AM

They acome across as trolls that just want to disagree with fans who want the program to improve and do well.

A couple of them are the same ones that complain about the coaching and recruiting classes suffering on the football team.

Obviously have an agenda...

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Re: Excuse of the Coach Brownell apologists

[1]
Mar 11, 2022, 7:27 AM

nctigs said:

They acome across as trolls that just want to disagree with fans who want the program to improve and do well.

A couple of them are the same ones that complain about the coaching and recruiting classes suffering on the football team.

Obviously have an agenda...



Says the guy that posts factually incorrect stats and out of context quotes to make brownell look bad. You seriously can't be serious with this post. ??????

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Here are some brutally correct numbers to chew on...

emoji_events [7]
Mar 11, 2022, 10:46 AM

Brownell is 26-48 in one-score games (3 points or less) over his 12 years here. That's a 35.1 win %. With two-score games (4-6 points) his record is 26-39 (40%). These are indisputable facts, and the trend has stayed pretty constant throughout his tenure, i.e. he has not improved his abilities here. If there is any measure that would describe a coach's ability to finish out and coach an end game - it is this. And it is really, really bad. Really bad. Like worst team in baseball bad.

All of the other stats, winning records, finishing better than writers predict, etc., all the other numbers used to paint some type of success here, get tossed to the wayside with this. This is the root of the heartache, the disappointments, the postseason woes, our fortunes on the court. It is the L in Brownell. We can and should do better than this, if not for the fans, then for the players who have to suffer the brunt of this ineffectiveness.

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Re: Excuse of the Coach Brownell apologists

emoji_events [5]
Mar 11, 2022, 7:06 AM

My thought is, he doesn't go the AAU circuit, so recruiting is kind of limited. Having said that, it's the same team year after year, bad shots ,bad decisions, not improving at all. 12 yrs is plenty long enough to rinse and repeat year after year after year. Deja Vu all over again.

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Re: Excuse of the Coach Brownell apologists


Mar 11, 2022, 7:28 AM

moodytiger said:

My thought is, he doesn't go the AAU circuit, so recruiting is kind of limited. Having said that, it's the same team year after year, bad shots ,bad decisions, not improving at all. 12 yrs is plenty long enough to rinse and repeat year after year after year. Deja Vu all over again.



That's a long way of telling me you have no clue what you are talking about! Did you know we were 5th in the ACC last year? Did you know we made the sweet 16 the year before that

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Re: Excuse of the Coach Brownell apologists

[1]
Mar 11, 2022, 7:28 AM

moodytiger said:

My thought is, he doesn't go the AAU circuit, so recruiting is kind of limited. Having said that, it's the same team year after year, bad shots ,bad decisions, not improving at all. 12 yrs is plenty long enough to rinse and repeat year after year after year. Deja Vu all over again.



That's a long way of telling me you have no clue what you are talking about! Did you know we were 5th in the ACC last year? Did you know we made the sweet 16 the year before that

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Re: Excuse of the Coach Brownell apologists

emoji_events [5]
Mar 11, 2022, 8:40 AM

Sweet 16 the year before that? Talk about false stats we last made the sweet 16 in the 2017-2018 season. So minus year 1 with OP recruits BB has had one good season out of 12. Finishing 5th last year in a depleted ACC, to turn around and be 1 and done in both ACC Tourney and NCAA Tourney (against an inferior opponent)isn't a great season.

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Re: Excuse of the Coach Brownell apologists

[1]
Mar 11, 2022, 8:54 AM


moodytiger said:

My thought is, he doesn't go the AAU circuit, so recruiting is kind of limited. Having said that, it's the same team year after year, bad shots ,bad decisions, not improving at all. 12 yrs is plenty long enough to rinse and repeat year after year after year. Deja Vu all over again.



That's a long way of telling me you have no clue what you are talking about! Did you know we were 5th in the ACC last year? Did you know we made the sweet 16 the year before that


Now who is not being factual? Sweet sixteen was two years ago before last season.

Qlso, I wasn't refering to you on my last post. You are just a big Brad fan...

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Re: Excuse of the Coach Brownell apologists

[1]
Mar 11, 2022, 10:07 AM

See that was just a mistake by me, while typing quickly.

Now you on the other hand have made multiple posts with egregiously false stats. You also post out of context quotes to make him look bad.

Everyone knows we didn't make the sweet 16 the year before last year. You know that I know that. Simple mistake. I'm not the one intentionally being misleading to push a narrative.

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Re: Excuse of the Coach Brownell apologists

[1]
Mar 11, 2022, 11:01 AM

He said BB was 2-8 in games 5 points or less. It's actually 3-8...and you won't stop harping on it.

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Re: Excuse of the Coach Brownell apologists


Mar 11, 2022, 11:12 AM

????… quite the battle of words and opinions.

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MEG


Re: Excuse of the Coach Brownell apologists


Mar 11, 2022, 12:01 PM


He said BB was 2-8 in games 5 points or less. It's actually 3-8...and you won't stop harping on it.



He posted a similar stat with similar, but for brownells entire career about a month or so ago.

I looked it up and brownell was actually .500 in 5 point games in his entire career.

He then said he always talking about 6 point games or something abd vanished from the thread. It's been multiple occurrences.

He also takes brownell out of context to make him look bad, and you worthless sheep get triggered. He's worse than cnn.

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Brownell is not .500 in 5 point games or less in his career.

[2]
Mar 11, 2022, 1:36 PM

That is a complete fabrication. The numbers have been shared here, plus the source (Clemson's own website showing the results of every basketball game going back to when he started). Either you are content with lying outright, or you are too lazy to verify for yourself. Either is not a good look.

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Re: Brownell is not .500 in 5 point games or less in his career.


Mar 11, 2022, 3:38 PM

I did verify it myself. I'm not going to do it again. No tigs posted brownells record in either 5 or 6 point games. I can't remember. I tallied them up and we were close to .500. Go look at my post history. I'm not doing it again!

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Re: Brownell is not .500 in 5 point games or less in his career.

[3]
Mar 11, 2022, 3:51 PM

Here are indisputable, available in black and white for anyone to see, unadulterated facts of Brad's record in close games here at Clemson:

1 point games: 5-14
2 point games: 11-20
3 point games: 10-14
4 point games: 13-11 (is this the one you're fixated on? LOL)
5 point games: 8-14
6 point games: 5-14

35.1% in 1-score games (3 points or less)
40.0% in 2-score games (4-6 points)

Them's the facts, Jack. And they are god awful pitiful. Fall apart like a wet taco pitiful.

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Re: Brownell is not .500 in 5 point games or less in his career.


Mar 11, 2022, 10:09 PM

I think that is the one I'm fixated on. I'm not arguing one way or the other. All I'm saying this is the second time nctigs has made a post with factually incorrect information to make brownell look bad. That's all I've been pointing out.

For the millionth time, Brad could go and I would support the decision and vice versa. Im game for 1 more year.

There is a middle ground here there are many reasons for him to be fired. There are a few reasons to keep him. He is hanging on by a thread.

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Re: Excuse of the Coach Brownell apologists


Mar 11, 2022, 7:31 AM

Nil. Pay coach 500000 and take the other 1.5 and NILplayer. Good big man. 300000 per and divide up the rest Just a thought. Get a good deal at Clemson.

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Re: Excuse of the Coach Brownell apologists


Mar 11, 2022, 7:45 AM

Hey a few more recruiting guys like Hall and the man will look like a genius. Just got to get the talent.

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MEG


Re: Excuse of the Coach Brownell apologists

[1]
Mar 11, 2022, 7:46 AM

Bareftn said:

One excuse I hear for keeping Coach Brownell is that we couldn't get anybody better, and that if we happened to find a good coach, they would leave after a couple of years. Coach Brownell has been here for 12 years. With that reasoning, aren't they telling us that they know Brownell is not a good coach and they just don't care?



It’s fact not an excuse. Question for you. What coach other than CBB had a winning Record at Clemson and did not take the first offer out? CU bball is not a destination job. We could invest in the program like we did football with a slide, bistro, nap room, a ton of staff and the highest paid staff in the country. But money is not unlimited so what would you cut? Cycling through coaches with no other changes will give us buyout debt and a broken program

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Re: Excuse of the Coach Brownell apologists

[2]
Mar 11, 2022, 8:41 AM

jstone with your and CobuphisbuttBox logic then why even have a basketball program?

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Re: Excuse of the Coach Brownell apologists


Mar 11, 2022, 8:55 AM


jstone with your and CobuphisbuttBox logic then why even have a basketball program?




having a basketball program is required to be a P5 ACC school so we spend the least amount possible to field a competitive team and keep a coach who runs a clean program and graduates players. Any surplus funds we have goes to our other programs who have already proven to be competitive on a national level.

If you were in charge and had a million bucks to spend would you spend it on basketball or drop it on football/soccer/softball/golf or perhaps use it to comply with Title 9?

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Re: Excuse of the Coach Brownell apologists

[3]
Mar 11, 2022, 9:53 AM

They sure found 63.5 million to update little john a few years ago.

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Re: Excuse of the Coach Brownell apologists


Mar 11, 2022, 11:18 AM

jstone is a coot troll who couldn't stand for us to get better at basketball since it is the only men's sport that is arguably better - even if both teams really just suck.

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Re: Excuse of the Coach Brownell apologists

[1]
Mar 11, 2022, 4:19 PM

There's a reason for that. We are stuck with a guy we don't believe in and for some reason won't get rid of him.

We should find someone that we can believe in and start building from there.

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Re: Excuse of the Coach Brownell apologists

[3]
Mar 11, 2022, 9:32 AM

Coach Brownell isn't a bad guy but he is a mediocre coach. We could spend the same amount on a new one and probably have a 60/40 chance at improving the program in my opinion (for certain guys I think we can afford to pay more). Money is not unlimited but we are not in the poor house either. If it doesn't improve then we try again in 4 or 5 years. The ACC is not the intimidating conference with intimidating coaches that it once was. Now is the time to take a chance, not stand pat with a poor hand.

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Re: Excuse of the Coach Brownell apologists

[1]
Mar 11, 2022, 8:19 AM

Thank you for using the word apologists. I have not seen that word at all lately!??
I apologize, for I am not one to be an apologists for anyone.

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Re: Excuse of the Coach Brownell apologists

[1]
Mar 11, 2022, 9:02 AM

The difference between the "apologists" and the "haters" is that one side seemingly won't look at the history of the basketball program and the difficulty in building a consistent winner. Yes, Brownell is paid well; however, that isn't all it takes.

The Clemson basketball program is not about one person. It's been a collective issue for its existence. Could a new coach change that? Possibly. I don't know. Could a new coach find some quick success and bolt, yes? Could the program be in worse shape in 3 years? Absolutely.

We don't know what conversations the athletic department and BOT have had regarding basketball. It's entirely conceivable that they feel the investment needed to make Clemson a consistent top ACC team isn't worth it. It's up to the donors to make them feel differently; however, I suspect there aren't enough donors willing to shift funds from football to basketball.

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Re: Excuse of the Coach Brownell apologists

[3]
Mar 11, 2022, 9:40 AM

I don't consider myself a hater. I have said that I thought Brownell deserved to keep the job if he made it to the tournament and should replaced if he didn't from the beginning of the season. I agree that we could get worse. I just don't think that it matters. It will take at least 2 years of success for Brownell to regain the fanbase. ANY new coach have the fanbase at the beginning of next season, and even with poor results will be given the benefit of the doubt for a couple of years. Brownell has run a clean program and had brief successes but I would like for us to at least try for more.

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Re: Excuse of the Coach Brownell apologists

[1]
Mar 11, 2022, 9:56 AM

Why do you think a new coach will automatically be given the benefit of the doubt by fans? Most Clemson basketball fans are like South Carolina fans. If the new coach had a bad first season, they would be calling for a new coach.

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A new coach would give Clemson basketball fans hope.

[3]
Mar 11, 2022, 12:38 PM

With the return of Brad Brownell, there is little to none. There is a malaise.

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Re: A new coach would give Clemson basketball fans hope.


Mar 11, 2022, 3:19 PM

How many games did you go to? How many games would you go to if a new, shiny head coach is hired?

Follow up questions. How much money do you donate to IPTAY? How much more would you donate if it meant that Brownell is not the coach and you get your new, shiny head coach?

Clemson basketball "fans" run their mouths about how much better they feel the program should be, but, in limited circumstances, do nothing of import.

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None. Coach Brownell has killed Clemson basketball for me

[4]
Mar 11, 2022, 3:50 PM

and a lot of other fans who used to look forward to every game. I know a few people who feel the same way. You probably know a few too. A new coach would give us some hope that things might improve.

I've given quite a bit to IPTAY over the years. I was a football season ticket holder for over 20 years and typically went to at least 5 games per year. After we won the national championship in 2016, my wife and I decided that going to all of those games was just too difficult, too time consuming and too expensive from Mt. Pleasant, SC. We no longer get season tickets. We decided to join a golf course and play golf on gamedays before settling in front of the TV to watch The Tigers.

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Re: None. Coach Brownell has killed Clemson basketball for me


Mar 14, 2022, 12:13 PM

Sorry to respond a couple days later.

I think your opinion is perfectly valid. I gave up season tickets for football this year for the same reasons. That being said, I don't necessarily disagree about a new coach giving hope, but I feel that it will take more than just a head coach.

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Re: A new coach would give Clemson basketball fans hope.

[1]
Mar 12, 2022, 2:14 AM

It's not a matter of should it be better. It's a matter of why shouldn't we try? I would rather us try for greatness and fail miserably, than accept mediocre.

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Re: Excuse of the Coach Brownell apologists

[1]
Mar 11, 2022, 9:54 AM



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Re: Excuse of the Coach Brownell apologists


Mar 11, 2022, 1:03 PM

Same dudes who took a fat chick to the prom when they sat next to a cheerleader in chemistry. Sad sacks who think they can’t do any better

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Your first mistake about Brownell apologists


Mar 11, 2022, 10:45 PM

is the whole logic part.

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and the biggest thing... I've never see the ACC this crappy

[3]
Mar 11, 2022, 10:45 PM

in my whole life, and I'm almost 65 years old. ONE RANKED TEAM?? JFC, I'm used to the ACC having 2 or 3 teams in the Top 10, and several others scattered throughout the Top 25. A murderer's row. And... you didn't get to dodge anybody, you played everybody twice, home and away. And then again in the ACC Tourney.

If you went .500 or a little better against THAT schedule... then yeah, you kinda did OK. Not great maybe, but pretty damm good.

Many years I watched teams slide into March Madness with a gaudy 22-6 record, then looked at their schedule, and they played maybe one or two ranked teams all year. And we played a ton of em. I knew, for a fact, if we switched schedules, we'd have their record at the very least... and they'd be battling for "middle of the pack" in the ACC.

Anyway, no excuses are good enough for where we are after 12 years of BB. None. Period.

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"They talk most who have the least to say." - Matthew Prior 1664-1721


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