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Replies: 22
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Hall of Famer [22275]
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Offenses in NCAA today.
Nov 9, 2021, 8:47 AM
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I admit, this post is motivated by discussions about the ability of Tony Elliott as OC. I don't want to rehash that. Everyone has made up their minds. No point in restating either side of the argument.
But, here is my question: Is it possible to win a national championship without having a first round draft pick playing QB? Has the game become so QB-centric that it is virtually impossible to win it all without a first round NFL QB taking the snaps?
Starting in 2020 and going back, here is what I see:
Bama - Mac Jones
LSU = Burrow
Clemson - Trevor
Bama - Tua
Clemson - Watson
Ohio State - Cordele Jones *
FSU - Crab Legs Winston
So, 6 of the last seven (last 5) national championships have had a QB who was a first round draft pick.
I think virtually everyone thought DJ was on that level. (Dr. Pepper and Bojangles certainly did.) Unless things change a lot, he won't be.
So, maybe the single most important job of the OC is to recruit and develop a QB. Play calling and offensive schemes and all the other stuff is important, for sure. But, as the song goes:
If you wanna play in Texas, you gotta have a fiddle in the band.
1st round draft pick at QB seems to be the fiddle.
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CU Medallion [73569]
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While I agree
Nov 9, 2021, 8:54 AM
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You also shouldn't have the 112th ranked offense with an avg to above QB.
But yes, to win a Natty, you need a top QB.
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110%er [7427]
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Re: Offenses in NCAA today.
Nov 9, 2021, 8:56 AM
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Well, if that is the case, Georgia will be attempting to buck that trend this year because neither Bennett or Daniels are a first rounder.
If they pull it off, it will be because of defense and running game, the ball control formula Alabama used in the early 2010s to get the dynasty rolling while Kirby was their D coordinator.
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Hall of Famer [22275]
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Re: Offenses in NCAA today.
Nov 9, 2021, 9:02 AM
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Good point. I'll go so far as to say excellent point.
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All-TigerNet [10822]
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‘‘Twas a glorious point
Nov 9, 2021, 10:08 AM
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+1
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110%er [6825]
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Re: ‘‘Twas a glorious point
Nov 9, 2021, 12:03 PM
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The only difference is that this approach is great getting to the playoff (see Bama 14, Clemson 17, ND 18) but not winning it. This approach gets exposed to a team that has a D and an O. Even looking back further, you still had Leinhart, Tebow, Young, and Cam. Even Bama had AJ and while his draft stock tanked, he is one of the few from that 14 class still on an NFRL roster I think. Only Carr and Garapollo getting more action. Others like Johnny fizzled faster. A great QB does not guarantee a win, but a very good QB that can get hot will win it all.
Only Mauck and some ESPN analyst in 2009 bucked that trend.
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Lot o points [155750]
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It's not impossible, but it's absolutely possible to at
Nov 9, 2021, 9:04 AM
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least be playing for a natty with a non-1st rounder.
Look at this year for example. We are quite likely undefeated, and at worst sitting with one loss with a very winnable remaining slate of games with a basic serviceable QB like Kelly Bryant taking the snaps. We would likely end up getting destroyed a la 2019-20 in the playoff, but at the same time we would have already beaten the #1 team in the country, UGA, so anything could happen.
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110%er [8530]
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Re: It's not impossible, but it's absolutely possible to at
Nov 9, 2021, 9:40 AM
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You, like many other Tony Elliott haters, are not seeing the injury and COVID losses forest for the blame the coach trees.
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Legend [19576]
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Re: It's not impossible, but it's absolutely possible to at
Nov 9, 2021, 9:56 AM
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Playing devils advocate here, what injuries and covid losses did we have against GT and NC State?
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CU Medallion [64535]
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Clemson runs an RPO-type offense...
Nov 9, 2021, 9:12 AM
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and has for years now. That type of offense is best suited for a dual-threat QB. DJU is not a dual-threat QB. He is a pro-style QB which raises the question, why then did Clemson recruit DJU if his style of play was not ideally suited for the type of offense Clemson prefers to run?
Inquiring minds want to know.
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Legend [19576]
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Re: Clemson runs an RPO-type offense...
Nov 9, 2021, 9:20 AM
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I think DJ was expected to be an upgraded version of Tajh Boyd, whom ran this offense extremely well (Except against elite Defensive lines). Turns out that while DJ is probably just as good, if not better, in the power run game than Tajh, his ability in the passing game and decision making is no where near the level of Boyd. This is my opinion of course.
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CU Medallion [64535]
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When Boyd graduated...
Nov 9, 2021, 9:32 AM
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he was the ACC’s career leader in passing touchdowns (107), total touchdowns (133) and passer rating (155.2).
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Legend [19576]
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Re: When Boyd graduated...
Nov 9, 2021, 9:35 AM
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Right. That's my point. They expected DJ's ability as a passer couples with power run ability to be able to produce similarly to Tajh. Just hasn't panned out so far in regards to his passing game.
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110%er [8530]
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Re: Offenses in NCAA today.
Nov 9, 2021, 9:26 AM
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Championship quality football teams need a really good QB, basketball teams need a really good point guard and baseball teams need a really good shortstop. Oversimplified, sure, but DJ had draft picks as backs and receivers last year against ND, he was inexperienced going into this year but is getting better, the O line and receivers have been crippled by injury but they are getting better. Fans had an unrealistic expectation this year but because of all the injuries we were overrated based our past record.
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Legend [19576]
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Re: Offenses in NCAA today.
Nov 9, 2021, 9:37 AM
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I don't think you can say that the fans had unrealistic expectations when the coaches were telling us in August that this was the best offensive group they ever assembled. We had the expectations that the coaches expected us to have.
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MVP [537]
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you cant win anything without a good qb
Nov 9, 2021, 9:46 AM
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Look around. Do a search on QBR. All the teams that are winning have solid QBs. Hartman will be a back up in the NFL. the Pitt guys going too. Look at the standing in any conference. Look at VA, MIch St. Cinny. you have to be able to make the throws.
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Legend [19576]
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Re: you cant win anything without a good qb
Nov 9, 2021, 9:57 AM
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I don't think anyone is arguing that.
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Legend [16489]
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Have to have a good qb and a good TEAM. Defense must be
Nov 9, 2021, 9:40 AM
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solid, with good oline and supporting cast on offense. SHOULD Hurts be a 1st round qb pick? Possibly. Should Tua have been? Not sure? I think the nfl teams reach with a CHANCE on a qb, making some that don't deserve it 1st rounders. So I would say "no" to your original question. Need a good qb, but doesn't have to be a 1st round pick.
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110%er [6692]
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Re: Offenses in NCAA today.
Nov 9, 2021, 10:16 AM
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Unless you are ALabama. They just need their QB not to blow it in certain years. Greg McElroy was drafted in the 7th round. Matt Flynn at LSU was similar.
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110%er [5482]
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Re: Offenses in NCAA today.
Nov 9, 2021, 10:55 AM
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Solid point which applies to the NFL also these days.
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110%er [6858]
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No one demanding we win the natty every year
Nov 9, 2021, 11:01 AM
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But you absolutely cannot have an offense that ranks in the bottom half of the entire sport, especially recruiting the way we have and ESPECIALLY playing in the ACC. There just isnt a legitimate excuse for it other than coaching.
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CU Guru [1779]
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Exactly. I fully expected there to be some drop off
Nov 9, 2021, 11:16 AM
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on the offense this year, just not one the worst in the country. Like I've said, if they were ranked 50th, maybe even 60th, 70th, you could chalk it up to New faces and injuries, but when there ranked in the triple digits, there's more to it.
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: Offenses in NCAA today.
Nov 9, 2021, 11:12 AM
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Clemson changed the college game in 2015 and is now suffering for it in this season.
Sure, before 2015 lots of schools had shifted to spread offenses, but that's not the change I am talking about. Many teams were running the spread but trying to make it about the option or about the RBs.
On a national stage Clemson showed the college football world that the right QB for that type of offense could overcome an incredible talent gap and make a game competitive.
Clemson doubled down on their showing by returning the following year and proving that you can not only hang around in a game with far less talent, but you can beat the superiorly talented team when it matters most if you have a QB under center that can take over the game.
Prior to those 2 games coaches were still split on how to go about bringing their team up the hierarchy.
The SEC was trying to beat Bama "the Bama way". They were trying to out-Bama Bama. It was failing miserably.
The BIG 10 was stuck in the "slow north" and mostly playing to win with defense and a run game.
Both leagues made a huge push toward the QB centric open concept.
Bama doesn't beat UGA without putting in Tua to sling it for a half. Bama hasn't gone back since.
LSU doesn't beat Clemson with the old LSU way of 3 yards and a cloud of dust.
Ohio St doesn't beat Clemson without going for Justin Fields and letting the game revolve around him.
Now in 2021, the only team who attempts to compete on the national stage without a QB centric offense is UGA and we have seen them fail time and time again to beat Bama the "Bama way". Maybe this season is their breakthrough, but that remains to be seen.
Clemson's 2 unexpected losses this season came to teams with QBs who were given the keys to the offense.
NC State has all but abandoned the run now with Leary running the show for them and it's made their offense much tougher to defend.
Remember Pitt and their "power rushing attack" in the 2017 ACC championship? Now Pickett is slinging it every play and they run just enough to keep teams honest. Even the 2016 Pitt offense that beat Clemson was running a shovel pass and then giving it to their RB 20 times a game. They found 1 play in 1 game that we couldn't adjust to. That idea hasn't worked in a while against Clemson.
Does anybody think the 2015 or 2016 versions of either offense would have beaten Clemson this season, even with our current struggles?
Look across the country. Teams like Iowa never had a chance to compete for an entire season.
Yes, talent still wins over the long haul but in a one game season now teams are willing to put the entire game on a dynamic QB and "see what happens".
What happens is that the playing field is leveled when those QBs rise to the occasion and they can compete with and beat more talented teams.
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