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YOUR BALANCE
Impeachment support continues to skyrocket daily.
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Impeachment support continues to skyrocket daily.


Oct 10, 2019, 12:50 PM

Yesterday, I posted about the break neck speed at which public support for impeachment was growing. It was argued that "hey, that's impeachment, not conviction and removal."

Well, just a few hours later, Fox publishes a new poll where the majority of the American People not only support impeachment, but conviction and removal.

This impeachment is an avalanche rolling down the mountain.

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Since they started before inauguration day...


Oct 10, 2019, 12:52 PM

they must be somewhere around Saturn by now.

2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpgringofhonor-clemsontiger1988-110.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

According to Fox News Polling, 51% want him gone.


Oct 10, 2019, 1:06 PM

That's like double what is was 2 weeks ago.

This thing is flying!

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When the house votes or appeals to the SCOTUS for...


Oct 10, 2019, 1:30 PM

support in forcing testimonies and subpoeing documents I'll pop the corn.

If someone called me to take a poll on impeaching Trump I would affirm that I'm all in with the house formally bringing charges to impeach Trump.

That does several things the least of which is expose everything to the public that is being kept behind closed doors by Schiff. It provides for Trump being represented in the trial, the minority party being able to cross examine witnesses called by the dems and call witnesses to testify on behalf of the POTUS. It's called 'DUE PROCESS.'

It distracts from the dem primaries and prevents Americans knowing exactly how progressive the top candidate have become until the general election when Trump will munch their lunch.

In the end it will make Trump appear to be the victim of a'nother' witch hunt when by exposing everything in open session with the Chief Justice presiding.

It's all I ever dreamed of.

If you feel froggy, jump!

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LOL at Schiff keeping anything secret


Oct 10, 2019, 1:34 PM

If he actually HAD anything he'd come squealing down the halls of Congress like a pack of Brownies that 19B had just flashed.

He had all that irrefutable, automatic impeach/remove/jail/exhile stuff that Mueller was gonna tell us about too right?

Those people can't stop themselves from leaking anything much less something that would actually implicate Trump.

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I was suggest he isn't revealing the testimonies which...


Oct 10, 2019, 1:47 PM

reveal that Trump was simply seeking justice for the corruption of the past administration. Considering that he's said nearly nothing his frustration must be peaking by now.

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doh***


Oct 10, 2019, 1:53 PM



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Whose testimony are you referring to?


Oct 10, 2019, 2:10 PM [ in reply to I was suggest he isn't revealing the testimonies which... ]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the House has issued subpoenas and they've been ignored. That's where we are right now.

If Trump has exculpatory evidence he should tweet it all over the information superhighway.

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I don't know if you're wrong or not.


Oct 10, 2019, 3:27 PM

I know the IG Atkinson testified before that committee and one other I think but the news comes and goes quickly and things which happened last week seem to get moved to page 100 on a google search if you don't have more specifics.

It took half a hour to dig this one out.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ig-could-not-explain-18-days-between-ukraine-call-and-whistleblower-complaint-sources-say

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Volker?


Oct 10, 2019, 3:43 PM

I think I remember something about him testifying but that seems like it was a long time ago.

Anyway, there's enough for me to make the claim that Schiff only releases parts of testimonies, I believe.

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That's not how it works.


Oct 10, 2019, 4:08 PM

It's not like Schiff is alone in a closed room with a witness and afterwards he doesn't tell anyone what was discussed. Congressional committees have closed door meetings and all the members of the committees from both parties are present. There's no version of events where Schiff somehow has the authority to do what you're suggesting.

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Lemme explain this fairly simply to you.


Oct 10, 2019, 8:19 PM [ in reply to When the house votes or appeals to the SCOTUS for... ]

If the majority of American voters want him impeached and gone, he will be impeached and gone.

Every #### Republican who wants to keep his job will jump on that train.

And you know it.

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[Catahoula] used to be almost solely a PnR rascal, but now has adopted shidpoasting with a passion. -bengaline

You are the meme master. - RPMcMurphy®

Trump is not a phony. - RememberTheDanny


I guess it's true that a lie repeated often enough starts to


Oct 10, 2019, 12:53 PM

sound like the truth.

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That is the Trump/GOP modus operandi.


Oct 10, 2019, 12:57 PM

What is Trump up to now, over 13,000 lies?

The new polling shows that the old Trump playbook of repeating lies relentlessly like you suggest, is no longer working like he wants it to. Most people want him gone.

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Y'all are full of Schiff... and Comey. And Mueller.


Oct 10, 2019, 1:02 PM

Difference is all these Dems lie bold faced right on camera in front of God and everybody and never get called out on it.

It's pretty clear that as much as there is visceral hate for Donald Trump on the left that if they had even an iota of something that they could legitimately impeach him for he'd have been gone before Pelosi could get the bolts in her neck tightened up enough to see her denture fall out in the morning.

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Comey and Mueller are Republicans. Donald Trump is great


Oct 10, 2019, 1:10 PM

for the Republican Party.

Keep your grip tight. Don't let go.

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I mean...c'mon.


Oct 10, 2019, 1:14 PM [ in reply to Y'all are full of Schiff... and Comey. And Mueller. ]

Difference is all these Dems lie bold faced right on camera in front of God and everybody and never get called out on it.

You're going to point a finger at Dems for lying on camera, in defense of...Donald Trump?

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I should clarify I guess, Trump is no saint to me


Oct 10, 2019, 1:17 PM

or any sane person and no politicians are.

But when the aforementioned folks among others have actively imprisoned people and ruined lives for the very same things they have done and continue to do (lie to congress, abuse power, etc.) all because they hate Trump so much it's a little hard to overlook unless you are just too deep in one camp or another.

Schiff's little "parody" was nothing but an outright lie to get into House records, but that's OK I guess... he's on the right side.

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If Trump is't your man, why the whiny support of whatever


Oct 10, 2019, 1:35 PM

corruption he commits or lies he tells or allies he allows to be slaughtered? Is it because he's "on the right side?"

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If by whiny support you mean wanting fairness


Oct 10, 2019, 1:51 PM

and equal application of laws instead of one side abusing it's power and destroying whomever disagrees with them while committing exactly the same infractions, or by projecting that side's past transgressions onto a person who did not commit them (e.g. it was the Democratic party that sourced the 'dossier' from Russia, but they go after Trump for their crime)...

if that's what you mean by whiny then send me a pacifier I guess.

As I said, I don't blindly support Trump or anyone else - but he's got the economy humming and I very much appreciate his tough, fighter's attitude on most topics. I was beyond sick of Obama's capitulation and apology tours. And I firmly believe that had the Republicans been so single-minded and focused on destroying him that there was as much or more corruption there to feed that effort.

As a general rule I distrust the vast majority of them and my biggest hope is that they keep one another in check.

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Yes, you do blindly support Trump


Oct 10, 2019, 1:52 PM

Willful ignorance is the way I would describe it.

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OK, whatever. I pretty much feel the same way about


Oct 10, 2019, 1:55 PM

all the sheeple that believe whatever CNN and MSNBC feed them.

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True.


Oct 10, 2019, 1:10 PM [ in reply to I guess it's true that a lie repeated often enough starts to ]

See: Benghazi, email server, et al.

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OK now I gotta say c'mon...


Oct 10, 2019, 1:25 PM

There is plenty of documentation about both of those cases, and Comey himself said publicly that the email server was tantamount to a reckless (or extremely careless I think he said to avoid the letter of the law) handling of classified data and he simply chose not to prosecute.

Maybe MSNBC didn't show that particular presser... but if we are going to even try to be honest and remotely even-handed or openminded I don't think we can say those are lies.

I know I'm repeating myself, but there have been people jailed for much less.

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Honest question


Oct 10, 2019, 1:30 PM

Are you ok with a sitting president directly asking foreign countries to investigate a political rival?

I'm not excusing anyone else's behavior. If they're corrupt, charge em and punish em.

But I'm honestly curious as to your answer about that direct question.

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Re: Honest question


Oct 10, 2019, 1:41 PM

I'm perfectly happy with him asking a foreign country to help him investigate violations of the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, yes I am. It's as plain as day to anyone that is willing to see it that his dealings with several countries that benefitted his thoroughly unqualified son definitely fall in that category.

The "anti-bribery" and "ethics" training I have to take every single year at my job makes it perfectly clear that if I did those exact same things I'd be fired and prosecuted. IMHO it should be important to every single person living in this country that we have equal justice under the law and not have a protected class of powerful government people. History tells us how that usually goes.

It is unfortunate that this "political rival" put himself in that position, but if that were to excuse his past crimes there's a few people I need to go kill off and then run for office I guess.

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Here's the problem you're running into:


Oct 10, 2019, 1:56 PM

name anybody else Trump has tried to have foreign governments investigate. If you can't put the pieces together to see that this was nothing more than an attempt at a political takedown, then you're one of the partisan team guys that you claim to despise. Nobody cares about Biden, including Trump...until he's suddenly leading the Dem polls. NOW, all of a sudden, it's time to enforce the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act. Lulz.

2024 white level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpgbadge-ringofhonor-19b.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

so I can see where you're coming from, fine...


Oct 10, 2019, 2:17 PM

but help me understand how that is any different that all of various investigations that have taken place since Trump was elected to either take him down, or take anyone associated with him past or present down? I mean the convictions that have happened for tax issues and perjury - those are no more isolated events than violations of the FCPA, but I don't recall ever seeing the same aggressive enforcement against others. That includes Eric Holder...

But to take it a step further and also to anticipate how I think you may answer (Trump is a sitting president and we must not allow him to hold office if he is corrupt - just guessing)... but if there is a person who we believe has abused his office (IMO that could be Biden and/or Hillary) - if we think such as thing has happened, it stands to reason that the same person if given the opportunity would repeat the offense, and therefore we should establish if crimes were committed or not before giving that person an even higher office.

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Were any of those investigations predicated


Oct 10, 2019, 2:31 PM

on the delivery of foreign aid? Or were they all internal US intelligence/DOJ-based? It's kind of like you're painting Manafort as a collateral damage victim here because you don't like the premise of investigation he was caught up in, but he DID commit crimes. Am I missing something? Aren't we all champions of anti-corruption?

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I don't think you're representing what I have said


Oct 10, 2019, 2:45 PM

I've not once said that anyone who has been successfully prosecuted should have been let off the hook - in fact I've repeatedly said the opposite. The law should be fairly applied to everyone and it clearly has not been. That is not right, and at some level it is worrisome the more that it continues to happen.

I don't understand why anyone wouldn't want Biden's (or Hillary's) potential crimes to be investigated any less thoroughly than anyone else's.

If Ukraine is bound by treaty to provide that kind of information, then military aid may be the leverage needed to remind them of that obligation. But neither the transcripts NOR THE PRESIDENT OF UKRAINE HIMSELF indicate any occurrence of that happening.

The DOJ used different leverage in all of their cases, including perjury traps, "flipping" offers, asset seizure, threats and intimidation - so hardly taking the high road either.

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"I would like you to do us a favor, though."


Oct 10, 2019, 2:52 PM

We have not seen a "transcript" as you have erroneously suggested. We have seen a memo produced by the White House that implicates the president in criminal activity and corroborates the whistleblower's report.

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Except that it doesn't corroborate it, unless you had


Oct 10, 2019, 2:56 PM

decided beforehand that it was going to. It was so incredibly non-corraborating that Adam Schiff had to literally make up a purely fictional version of it to read in front of the House of Representatives. Another lie for which for which he has not been held accountable.

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You keep proving my point.


Oct 10, 2019, 3:00 PM

The question becomes, are you really this uninformed or are you just dishonest.

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LOL - first one to Hitler loses :)***


Oct 10, 2019, 3:05 PM



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how do we know unless another whistleblower steps forward***


Oct 10, 2019, 2:36 PM [ in reply to Here's the problem you're running into: ]



2024 white level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpgringofhonor-willmo.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up




Cat on a tin roof, dogs in a pile,
Nothin' left to do but smile, smile, smile!!!!


Give them enough time to change the rules and qualifications


Oct 10, 2019, 2:39 PM

AGAIN, and I'm sure we'll see another one.

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What rules and qualifications did they change?***


Oct 10, 2019, 2:40 PM



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Two weeks before the "whistleblower" report was made public,


Oct 10, 2019, 2:53 PM

the House changed the rules to allow the qualification of hearsay evidence. Prior to that, and in every court of law in the US, anything other than firsthand knowledge is inadmissible.

The timeline of the conveniently meshes up nicely with when Adam Schiff's "office" was approached by this person on how to file a complaint. That is another lie he was caught in when he said on TV that "we haven't spoken to the whistleblower, but we'd like to".

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Yeah, that's not true.


Oct 10, 2019, 2:57 PM

https://www.businessinsider.com/intelligence-watchdog-rejected-trump-theory-whistleblower-process-changed-2019-10

"The Inspector General of the Intelligence Committee said Monday that first-hand information was never been a requirement, and that the current process has existed for more than a year."

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Interesting


Oct 10, 2019, 3:03 PM

ICIG ICWSP Form 401, May 24, 2018: In order to find an urgent concern “credible,” the IC IG must be in possession of reliable, first-hand information. The IC IG cannot transmit information via the ICWPA based on an employee’s second-hand knowledge of wrongdoing. This includes information received from another person, such as when a fellow employee informs you that he/she witnessed some type of wrongdoing. (Anyone with first-hand knowledge of the allegations may file a disclosure in writing directly with IC IG.) Similarly, speculation about the existence of wrongdoing does not provide sufficient legal basis to meet the statutory requirements of the ICWPA. If you think that wrongdoing took place, but can provide nothing more than second-hand or unsubstantiated assertions, IC IG will not be able to process the complaint or information for submission as an ICWPA.

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Read ICIG statement that clears all that up


Oct 10, 2019, 3:11 PM

https://www.dni.gov/files/ICIG/Documents/News/ICIG%20News/2019/September%2030%20-%20Statement%20on%20Processing%20of%20Whistleblower%20Complaints/ICIG%20Statement%20on%20Processing%20of%20Whistleblower%20Complaints.pdf

Although the form requests information about whether the Complainant possesses first-hand knowledge about the matter about which he or she is lodging the complaint, there is no such requirement set forth in the statute. In fact, by law the Complainant – or any individual in the Intelligence Community who wants to report information with respect to an urgent concern to the congressional intelligence committees – need not possess first-hand information in order to file a complaint or information with respect to an urgent concern. The ICIG cannot add conditions to the filing of an urgent concern that do not exist in law. Since Inspector General Atkinson entered on duty as the Inspector General of the Intelligence Community, the ICIG has not rejected the filing of an alleged urgent concern due to a whistleblower’s lack of first-hand knowledge of the allegations.

"As part of his determination that the urgent concern appeared credible, the Inspector General of the Intelligence Community determined that the Complainant had official and authorized access to the information and sources referenced in the Complainant’s Letter and Classified Appendix, including direct knowledge of certain alleged conduct"

The Complainant on the form he or she submitted on August 12, 2019 in fact checked two relevant boxes: The first box stated that, “I have personal and/or direct knowledge of events or records involved”

Please find better news sources, this talking point ended around ten days ago.

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If there's one thing we've learned about Trump's minions


Oct 10, 2019, 3:15 PM

it's that the truth has a hard time getting through.

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Re: If there's one thing we've learned about Trump's minions


Oct 10, 2019, 3:43 PM

Chuckston T-Man
All-TigerNet [14698]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 24437
Joined: 11/30/98
If there's one thing we've learned about Trump's minions
Posted: Oct 10, 2019 3:15 PM
Reply

it's that the truth has a hard time getting through.


guess no of this is true huh

Trump Administration Accomplishments
SHARE:


Almost 4 million jobs created since election.
More Americans are now employed than ever recorded before in our history.
We have created more than 400,000 manufacturing jobs since my election.
Manufacturing jobs growing at the fastest rate in more than THREE DECADES.
Economic growth last quarter hit 4.2 percent.
New unemployment claims recently hit a 49-year low.
Median household income has hit highest level ever recorded.
African-American unemployment has recently achieved the lowest rate ever recorded.
Hispanic-American unemployment is at the lowest rate ever recorded.
Asian-American unemployment recently achieved the lowest rate ever recorded.
Women’s unemployment recently reached the lowest rate in 65 years.
Youth unemployment has recently hit the lowest rate in nearly half a century.
Lowest unemployment rate ever recorded for Americans without a high school diploma.
Under my Administration, veterans’ unemployment recently reached its lowest rate in nearly 20 years.
Almost 3.9 million Americans have been lifted off food stamps since the election.
The Pledge to America’s Workers has resulted in employers committing to train more than 4 million Americans. We are committed to VOCATIONAL education.
95 percent of U.S. manufacturers are optimistic about the future—the highest ever.
Retail sales surged last month, up another 6 percent over last year.
Signed the biggest package of tax cuts and reforms in history. After tax cuts, over $300 billion poured back in to the U.S. in the first quarter alone.
As a result of our tax bill, small businesses will have the lowest top marginal tax rate in more than 80 years.
Helped win U.S. bid for the 2028 Summer Olympics in Los Angeles.
Helped win U.S.-Mexico-Canada’s united bid for 2026 World Cup.
Opened ANWR and approved Keystone XL and Dakota Access Pipelines.
Record number of regulations eliminated.
Enacted regulatory relief for community banks and credit unions.
Obamacare individual mandate penalty GONE.
My Administration is providing more affordable healthcare options for Americans through association health plans and short-term duration plans.
Last month, the FDA approved more affordable generic drugs than ever before in history. And thanks to our efforts, many drug companies are freezing or reversing planned price increases.
We reformed the Medicare program to stop hospitals from overcharging low-income seniors on their drugs—saving seniors hundreds of millions of dollars this year alone.
Signed Right-To-Try legislation.
Secured $6 billion in NEW funding to fight the opioid epidemic.
We have reduced high-dose opioid prescriptions by 16 percent during my first year in office.
Signed VA Choice Act and VA Accountability Act, expanded VA telehealth services, walk-in-clinics, and same-day urgent primary and mental health care.
Increased our coal exports by 60 percent; U.S. oil production recently reached all-time high.
United States is a net natural gas exporter for the first time since 1957.
Withdrew the United States from the job-killing Paris Climate Accord.
Cancelled the illegal, anti-coal, so-called Clean Power Plan.
Secured record $700 billion in military funding; $716 billion next year.
NATO allies are spending $69 billion more on defense since 2016.
Process has begun to make the Space Force the 6th branch of the Armed Forces.
Confirmed more circuit court judges than any other new administration.
Confirmed Supreme Court Justice Neil Gorsuch and nominated Judge Brett Kavanaugh.
Withdrew from the horrible, one-sided Iran Deal.
Moved U.S. Embassy to Jerusalem.
Protecting Americans from terrorists with the Travel Ban, upheld by Supreme Court.
Issued Executive Order to keep open Guantanamo Bay.
Concluded a historic U.S.-Mexico Trade Deal to replace NAFTA. And negotiations with Canada are underway as we speak.
Reached a breakthrough agreement with the E.U. to increase U.S. exports.
Imposed tariffs on foreign steel and aluminum to protect our national security.
Imposed tariffs on China in response to China’s forced technology transfer, intellectual property theft, and their chronically abusive trade practices.
Net exports are on track to increase by $59 billion this year.
Improved vetting and screening for refugees, and switched focus to overseas resettlement.
We have begun BUILDING THE WALL. Republicans want STRONG BORDERS and NO CRIME. Democrats want OPEN BORDERS which equals MASSIVE CRIME.

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This proves my point about you. Nothing you wrote is true.


Oct 10, 2019, 2:58 PM [ in reply to Two weeks before the "whistleblower" report was made public, ]

It is easily disproved.

Are you aware that it is not true and are just lying or are you unaware?

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The old form has the language and the new form does not.


Oct 10, 2019, 3:15 PM

However you want to spin that, or to have it spun for you, is your issue.

I'm not interesting in calling names and all that crap. If you want to keep on believing that whomever you support is the finest group of ethical, upstanding, virtuous honest to a fault, self-sacrificing for the good of God and country then I suspect nothing is going to change your mind.

Likewise I can say that it would take an absolute miracle for me to believe that most politicians are in a race to the bottom in terms of all of those same virtues.

Some are more overt than others at allowing those who would open their eyes see the hypocrisy and dishonestly used in advancing their partisan and dogmatic ideologies that frequently have very little to do with representing the will of the people that sent them to office.

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You repeatedly prove you don't have your facts straight


Oct 10, 2019, 3:19 PM

and you easily buy into conspiracies that you think are a defense of Trump's corruption.

But keep posting.

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You're right. Impeach the MF'r...***


Oct 10, 2019, 3:20 PM



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The fact you're calling it "spin" is pretty telling.


Oct 10, 2019, 3:32 PM [ in reply to The old form has the language and the new form does not. ]

It's from the ICIG who, in his statement, says 1.)The Disclosure of Urgent Concern form the Complainant submitted on August 12, 2019 is the same form the ICIG has had in place since May 24, 2018. 2.)The Complainant on the form he or she submitted on August 12, 2019 in fact checked two relevant boxes: The first box stated that, “I have personal and/or direct knowledge of events or records involved”

So, explain how that's "spin" and why you won't accept it as the reality?

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That was not the initial reporting so if I missed the follow


Oct 10, 2019, 3:39 PM

on to it I'll own that. I can admit when I have missed some information.

I have a pretty deep mistrust, borne in all of the activities of the various government agencies over the last 2 years, so I'll still say that I am not completely convinced that nothing really happened on the topic.

Ultimately thought the whistleblower rules are a red herring aren't they... the debate at hand is whether Trump should be impeached, either on the grounds of the alleged Ukraine interference request or something else and I still stand by my belief that nothing "impeachable" has been done here.

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That "initial reporting" was coming from only one side...


Oct 10, 2019, 3:56 PM

and realize that there is a very real chance that the reason you missed the follow-up explanation and truth correcting the "reporting" was because it was never given to you. If that's the case, think of WHY would they not give that information to you? Then maybe reconsider those "news" sources.

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The search for the truth should not be a passive exercise


Oct 10, 2019, 4:01 PM

like it is for most Republicans.

There is a name for that. Willful ignorance.

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Had you stopped with the subject line I think


Oct 10, 2019, 4:26 PM

we could have ended the thread with having found at least one grain of common ground... since you did not I have to say that it's a gross generalization to suggest that any one group of people has the market corned on ignorance; whether willfully or negligently, or simply lacking in capacity.



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Given the overwhelming support of Trump by the GOP


Oct 10, 2019, 4:39 PM

it is not a generalization. It is a fact. Hopefully, it is a temporary truth.

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If you are putting Mark Sanford in the


Oct 10, 2019, 4:57 PM

enlightened elite group because he does not support Trump then I honestly don't know how you don't drown in a rainstorm.

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You're flailing wildly.***


Oct 10, 2019, 5:04 PM



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I actually diversify my sources to a degree


Oct 10, 2019, 4:28 PM [ in reply to That "initial reporting" was coming from only one side... ]

but having said that, I've got three kids and spend an inordinate amount of time in hockey rinks, soccer fields, gymnastics classes and even horse riding lessons (things you never expected to do) and I have one of those job things too so it's not uncommon for me to take an intermittent fasting approach to news consumption.

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Fair enough. Here's a quick suggestion though...


Oct 10, 2019, 4:34 PM

You took the time to find, copy and paste this:

"ICIG ICWSP Form 401, May 24, 2018: In order to find an urgent concern “credible,” the IC IG must be in possession of reliable, first-hand information. The IC IG cannot transmit information via the ICWPA based on an employee’s second-hand knowledge of wrongdoing. This includes information received from another person, such as when a fellow employee informs you that he/she witnessed some type of wrongdoing. (Anyone with first-hand knowledge of the allegations may file a disclosure in writing directly with IC IG.) Similarly, speculation about the existence of wrongdoing does not provide sufficient legal basis to meet the statutory requirements of the ICWPA. If you think that wrongdoing took place, but can provide nothing more than second-hand or unsubstantiated assertions, IC IG will not be able to process the complaint or information for submission as an ICWPA."

So wherever you got it, assuming it's from a "news" site, it should have also included the ICIG statement. If it didn't include it, disregard that site from future "news" reading.

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If he needs to be investigated, then investigate him


Oct 10, 2019, 2:10 PM [ in reply to Re: Honest question ]

If he's guilty then punish him.

But the president personally and directly requesting investigations into his rival and seemingly withholding funding until it's handled is simply inappropriate. It reeks of the worst sort of corruption.

But again, if Biden is corrupt, punish him. I don't excuse corruption of any kind. No matter what side of the aisle the sit on.

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OK so that's a different issue than what's been discussed


Oct 10, 2019, 2:34 PM

If Trump withheld military aid for the purpose of soliciting action, that **may** be something to be concerned about. I say "may" because I'm no lawyer and can't get that deep into it. That is not the classic quid pro quo that has been bandied about though, because it's not offering something of value for something else of value.

IF that was done, and I were arguing the case, my stance would be that Ukraine is bound by treaty with the US to share information on FCPA, tax, and other criminal matters and if they fail to uphold their end of that treaty, the US should not provide them with anything other than humanitarian aid if it is needed.

That's not the story or the impeachment push though, because asking to investigate a crime is not only legal, it's obligatory. Those who want to impeach are making it about election interference and quid pro quo, which it certainly has not appeared to be so far.

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Re: OK now I gotta say c'mon...


Oct 10, 2019, 1:31 PM [ in reply to OK now I gotta say c'mon... ]

Nobody here wants an open and honest conversation on any topic.

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True - I keep forgetting that because I really am not one of


Oct 10, 2019, 1:36 PM

those Koolaid drinking, refuse to believe facts and believe 'my guy' is a persecuted apostle... but you're exactly right, it's all or nothing up in hurrr.

The entertainment value is quite worth it tho...

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Funny that you deny being the exact person you are being


Oct 10, 2019, 2:01 PM

in this thread. Very Trumpian.

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and very liberal of you to see nothing but Trump


Oct 10, 2019, 2:06 PM

vs. not Trump. Rather close minded and unsophisticated view of the world; it must suck to be unable to disassociate principles and behaviors from whatever embodiment you've been told represents "good" and "bad".

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Like asking a foreign government to interfere in an election


Oct 10, 2019, 2:14 PM

Is that type of abandonment of "principles" that you are referring to?

You can live in whatever fact free unprincipled world you want to live in. I'm not going to be joining you.

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No, that is a perfect example...


Oct 10, 2019, 2:26 PM

asking foreign governments to interfere in an election is wrong. However the democrats did not seem to identify it as wrong when they and Hillary were soliciting fictional information from several foreign operatives to influence the election. That is the embodiment of Hillary as "good", so none of her crimes are "real".

Trump on the other hand is "bad". So whatever he does HAS to be criminal. I happen to believe what the evidence has shown so far - that Trump has not asked for foreign influence in an election, but for information related to crimes committed in violation of the FCPA. It just so happens that the alleged perpetrator of those crimes is another candidate - but as I said above that should not, in a principled society, absolve one of responsibility. And I would certainly hope that a reasonable society would not want that person is a position of even more power to repeat the crime.

Note too, that while I do believe Biden did engage in FCPA violations - I'm still willing to say "alleged" because I think that the facts should be made known and tried before convicting him in the court of public opinion. I will say though that the facts known to date do not look good.

So yes - a principled look at these situations is quite different. If Trump committed any crimes then let's hear them and try him. Ditto for Biden, Hillary, or anyone else. But as we have seen over the last 4 years the investigations and prosecutions for anyone other than Trump are far less zealous.

Why is that? Because the alleged crimes are lessor? They seem to be pretty darned equivalent.

No - it is because the powers that be want everyone to see "Trump BAD" and "(Insert Dem) GOOD"

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You are a typical conspiracy mongering gullible Republican


Oct 10, 2019, 2:30 PM

who will defend Trump's behavior no matter what.

You say you aren't, but your posts betray you.

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like clockwork, liberals turn to name calling and shouting


Oct 10, 2019, 2:36 PM

people down when the facts begin to desert their pre-ordained decisions.

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You have no facts, just conspiracy mongering.


Oct 10, 2019, 2:42 PM

But, don't worry, the impeachment trial will lay it all out there for you.

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choose not to see what you don't want to I guess.


Oct 10, 2019, 2:51 PM

But I REALLY hate it for you people that get so excited and joyful while you await the next big bombshell that Schiff and Pelosi and the left wing media convince you are going to be the thing that takes Trump down and the it just fizzles into the same old disappointment. And then you have the absurdity to say that I am conspiracy mongering. It's shocking to me that you guys can't see that you are basically looking in the mirror on a lot of this stuff. It's simply not logical. So carry on, and be sure to have your safe spaces ready when disappointment strikes yet again.

I'm sure the impeachment trial will play out just like Mueller's report and testimony did, and prove once again to anyone that's watching that the people sitting in the chamber have done absolutely nothing but waste our time and money during their tenure.

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I love it when crooked corrupt individuals get what they


Oct 10, 2019, 2:55 PM

deserve.

I would hope that all people agree with that statement.

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2 years and 7 different investigations of Benghazi,


Oct 10, 2019, 2:34 PM [ in reply to No, that is a perfect example... ]

4 of which were headed by Republicans. That's "less" investigating than Trump?

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If it's not less, it's pretty close and we're not done yet


Oct 10, 2019, 2:38 PM

are we?

And as a reminder - American servicemen and an ambassador died in Benghazi. I should hope for them and their families that there would be some sort of inquest.

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There were. 7 of them.


Oct 10, 2019, 2:39 PM

I guess another few wouldn't hurt.

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I dunno - Mueller's 2,800 subpoenas and 500 search warrants


Oct 10, 2019, 3:07 PM

seem pretty comprehensive.

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Who asked a foreign power to interfere in a US election?***


Oct 10, 2019, 2:59 PM [ in reply to Like asking a foreign government to interfere in an election ]



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Probably nitpicking, but it seems an exaggeration


Oct 10, 2019, 1:20 PM

to use the words "skyrocket daily". There does appear to be an increase in that opinion, according to polling.

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No different than him saying Trumps disapproval level was


Oct 10, 2019, 2:25 PM

"historic". Exaggeration is pretty much his schtick.

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"Fox News polling" which is the remarkable takeaway here.***


Oct 10, 2019, 3:12 PM [ in reply to Probably nitpicking, but it seems an exaggeration ]



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OMG OMG ONGGGGGGGG!!!***


Oct 10, 2019, 1:37 PM



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Re: Impeachment support continues to skyrocket daily.


Oct 10, 2019, 3:14 PM

It wont change anything. His support among Repubs is too high. Doesnt matter what Dems think. The Repub Senate knows he is supported by Repubs and they wont do anything.

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You keep repeating that.


Oct 10, 2019, 3:26 PM

Meanwhile, public opinion is shifting dramatically in only a few weeks. Support for an impeachment inquiry has increased among Democrats, Republicans, and independents by 25 points, 21 points, and 20 points, respectively.



Perhaps you are correct, but I highly doubt it.

Judging from Trump's and the Republican's reactions over the last few weeks, they doubt it too.

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Trump has learned to play politics/


Oct 10, 2019, 3:30 PM

He wants the house vote so pubs can take the house next year. A SCOTUS decision works about as well.

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Trump seems downright delighted by talk of impeachment.


Oct 10, 2019, 3:33 PM

As a matter of fact, the whole Republican Party seems absolutely giddy about impeachment.

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It's like both sides are working for the trump campaign.


Oct 10, 2019, 4:57 PM

Appreciate the help. I'd love to see the polls reflect that 65% want an impeachment.

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Re: You keep repeating that.


Oct 10, 2019, 3:32 PM [ in reply to You keep repeating that. ]

Its not shifting enough among Repubs who want him impeached and removed from office. Its a non story. He wont be removed from office and Repubs Senate will stick with him. Its a pipe dream by the liberal public. The Dems in office no there is slim to no chance the Senate goes against him.

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Up 20% among Republicans in two weeks.


Oct 10, 2019, 3:40 PM

Hard to disregard that dramatic evidence to the contrary in such a short time.

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Re: Up 20% among Republicans in two weeks.


Oct 10, 2019, 3:58 PM

There is no dramatic evidence from the Repub side. Impeachment inquiry doesnt mean much. Impeachment and removed from office means something. Thise numbers with Repunbs are minimal. That will always be minimal amond Repubs and thats what matters to Repub Senators. Its wishful thinking on many libs part, but it as unrealistic as it gets. Trump will well over a 70% approval rating with Repubs at worst come time for the Senate to act.

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So, an investigation and trial will have no effect on public


Oct 10, 2019, 4:05 PM

perceptions? Is that the conclusion you draw from the last few weeks of rapidly evolving support for impeachment?

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Re: So, an investigation and trial will have no effect on public


Oct 10, 2019, 4:14 PM

Well that part I cant say for sure obviously, but my gut it will be minimal among Republicans. Fox and all conservative media will label it a witch hunt and desperation by the Dems. It will be like everything else now. The media just preaches to their audience and nothing changes. When it is done Trup's support will be extremely high among Republicans. Thats all that will matter. The Repup Senate wont go against him. They will overwhelmingly support Trump when it comes to them in the Senate.

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Republican Senators will have to defend a corrupt President


Oct 10, 2019, 4:26 PM

against evidence of corruption and criminal activity during a trial. How do you think that will play out with the public?

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Re: Republican Senators will have to defend a corrupt President


Oct 10, 2019, 4:56 PM

They will defend against it and it will do fine with Republicans. Hannity and Rush etc will make it seem like the corruption is really nothing other than Dem hype. It will play out on party lines. It wont be definitive. The Repubs will be fine. What you will see as corruption, the Repub voting base wont. Watch what happens with Repubs that post here, they will all still support a 2nd term for Trump.

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See?


Oct 10, 2019, 3:28 PM [ in reply to Re: Impeachment support continues to skyrocket daily. ]

There are some common sense truths in me. We agree, it's all political at this point.

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Re: Impeachment support continues to skyrocket daily.


Oct 10, 2019, 3:38 PM

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Chuckston T-Man
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Impea­chment support continues to skyrocket daily. [1]
Posted: Oct 10, 2019 12:50 PM
Reply

Yesterday, I posted about the break neck speed at which public support for impeachment was growing. It was argued that "hey, that's impeachment, not conviction and removal."

Well, just a few hours later, Fox publishes a new poll where the majority of the American People not only support impeachment, but conviction and removal.

This impeachment is an avalanche rolling down the mountain.


keep believing that snowflake. guessing you will be preaching it 6 years from now when nikki haley is sworn in.

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You didn't post in all caps?


Oct 10, 2019, 3:41 PM

You seem to be losing your mojo for Trump.

I don't blame you. You aren't the only one.

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Re: You didn't post in all caps?


Oct 10, 2019, 11:34 PM

“Hello this is the Democratic National Committee, we would like to order a poll and here are the results we want”.

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