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All-TigerNet [10185]
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Does anyone remember when the baseball team would
Mar 17, 2013, 9:34 PM
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only lose like 8, 9 or 10 games over the entire year....before the games started you just knew we were going to win....was it really that long ago????
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Orange Blooded [2217]
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Re: Does anyone remember when the baseball team would
Mar 17, 2013, 9:41 PM
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that was when most our team was from the state of NC, now they stay in NC. got to find a new ground to recruit. Ga worked last yr
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Commissioner [908]
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That was like 10 years ago, Khalil and Baker days***
Mar 17, 2013, 9:42 PM
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Legend [16900]
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Re: Does anyone remember when the baseball team would
Mar 17, 2013, 9:52 PM
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Bill Welhem and Jack Leggett actually have identical .683 overall winning percentages. It is your imagination.
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110%er [6937]
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Re Wilhem will soon be well ahead.***
Mar 17, 2013, 9:58 PM
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Legend [16900]
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Re: Re Wilhem will soon be well ahead.***
Mar 17, 2013, 10:02 PM
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He's coached 1200 games and only finished two seasons below .600. Sorry the facts didn't match your opinions.
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110%er [6937]
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Re:The way we are going certain supports it. Ok, I will
Mar 17, 2013, 10:10 PM
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allow you a couple more replies until you bring out facilities excuse.
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Legend [19352]
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All-TigerNet [12197]
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Orange Blooded [2457]
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Re: Does anyone remember when the baseball team would
Mar 17, 2013, 10:14 PM
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And Jack has won twice as many games in Omaha...
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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is it ok if we just recognize that the man so many laud for
Mar 17, 2013, 10:22 PM
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very good reasons, coach wilhelm, hand picked coach leggett as his replacement.
imo, there is no greater compliment that could be paid jack leggett.
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Orange Blooded [2457]
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Exactly
Mar 17, 2013, 10:33 PM
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Both are great coaches. As with everyone, you can have a "Yeah, but..." about them. Things have changed at Clemson and in college baseball since Bill started.
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All-TigerNet [12197]
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Re: Exactly
Mar 17, 2013, 10:36 PM
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Bobby Bowden was a great coach. At some point everyone falls off. Don't let him bring this program down with him.
Also the college baseball landscape change is not a valid excuse. The "everyone got better" excuse is often used. Well WHY IN THE WORLD DID WE NOT GET BETTER?
The SEC got tougher. You think Alabama AD is going....well things happen, so and so got a new training room....we should just deal with it.
HE** NO
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Orange Blooded [2457]
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Re: Exactly
Mar 17, 2013, 10:53 PM
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Things do change though. Look at Arizona State. They are still considered a power, but they haven't won a National Championship in 30 years. They won only 2 conference championships from 1985 to 2006. They have put out more MLB players than us though in that time and are still going strong without the same amount of success. The game has grown and no one is going to Omaha 5-6 times in a decade like they were in the 70s and 80s.
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110%er [6937]
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Re:I would like to remind you that the Coots have played
Mar 17, 2013, 10:59 PM
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in the last Three Championship Games and have won two of them.
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All-TigerNet [12197]
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Re: Exactly
Mar 17, 2013, 11:00 PM
[ in reply to Re: Exactly ] |
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If ASU's program is in decline that is not our problem. It is our goal in baseball to be the best. I don't care what everyone else is doing. I care what CLEMSON is doing.
I know it can be done. Don't give me the excuses as to why it will be tough to get back to being a national contender. I have seen it done right down the road. I have seen it done at other schools who were below us. I have no time for excuses.
Its accountability. Be accountable for your program. Be accountable for your recruiting. If your worrying about everyone else you have already lost
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Orange Blooded [2457]
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Then how is
Mar 17, 2013, 11:16 PM
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6 trips to Omaha in 19 season regressing from a coach that went 4 times in 34 years?
We do need to win more ACC titles, but the goal is to get to Omaha and play for it all. Jack is doing that much better than Bill did. Yes, we aren't as good, as we were in early 2000s, but we are still going to Omaha at least every 4 years. When that stops happening, then something may change.
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110%er [6937]
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Re: How many years are you willing to wait until it is done
Mar 17, 2013, 11:31 PM
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again? Will you still play that card after missing our on the next thirteen? No one gives a crap about what you have done. It is about what you are going to do for me. Especially, when your rival is playing in the championship game.
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CU Guru [1400]
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Much like the basketball tournament
Mar 18, 2013, 12:06 AM
[ in reply to Then how is ] |
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the number of teams in the baseball tournament has expanded. Far fewer teams got to regionals before 1998. In Wilhelm's first CWS appearance there were only 26 teams who qualified for the playoffs to determine who made it to Omaha.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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not sure of the percentages, but they expanded the tourneys
Mar 18, 2013, 12:12 AM
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for the same reasons.
there are now ~ 300 D1 baseball programs vying to get to omaha.
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CU Guru [1400]
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Grasp at those straws
Mar 18, 2013, 2:28 AM
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Let me know how they expanded the baseball tourney because of quality programs higher than what we have now.
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Orange Blooded [2613]
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Not defending anyone here but no matter how much they expand
Mar 18, 2013, 8:58 AM
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the number of teams that get into the NCAA tourney, there are still only 8 teams going to Omaha. That hasn't changed and likely never will.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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if you want to have a quality discussion have at it. you
Mar 18, 2013, 10:16 AM
[ in reply to Grasp at those straws ] |
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brought up numbers, i gave you the reason.
the only people i see grasping are the extremists on both sides.
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Orange Blooded [2217]
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Re: Exactly
Mar 18, 2013, 9:24 AM
[ in reply to Re: Exactly ] |
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Who would you replace him with?
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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funny story, coach wilhelm was recommended by unc's
Mar 17, 2013, 10:41 PM
[ in reply to Exactly ] |
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ad to howard; he was clemson's first fulltime baseball coach as everyone knows. up until that time football coaches did the job.
howard hired my dad as wilhelm's asst & the freshman baseball coach. there was still a football coach in charge of the freshman squad when wilhelm took the job, so by hiring my dad it freed up all of howard's football coaches to focus fulltime.
as howard told my dad, 'i'm not hiring you to make the baseball team better, i'm hiring you to make my football team better"...
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Legend [19352]
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Re: Exactly
Mar 18, 2013, 9:18 AM
[ in reply to Exactly ] |
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Jack is a good coach but he is not great/elite. Great/elite coaches put trophies in the case.
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Rock Defender [53]
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I think the facts show he is a great coach who may have
Mar 18, 2013, 9:19 AM
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overstayed his time. We shall see.
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All-TigerNet [14451]
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Re: Exactly
Mar 18, 2013, 9:24 AM
[ in reply to Re: Exactly ] |
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so, is mike martin, tim corbin, brian oconnor, mike fox elite coaches. what have these guys won. and if you say conference trophies i will just lmfao. i guarantee you not one of these guys could care less about conference tourneys. every one of these guys are all about regionals, super regionals and omaha. as they should be. winning the acc is fine, but in the big picture it makes diddly squat.
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All-TigerNet [14451]
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Re: Exactly
Mar 18, 2013, 9:27 AM
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the great ray tanner would have rather had an enema than participate in a conference tourney.
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Legend [19352]
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Re: Exactly
Mar 18, 2013, 10:04 AM
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You can win regular season titles as well...
That is just an excuse. That seems to be all you have for why we have went from Kings of the league to middle of the pack.
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Legend [19352]
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Re: Exactly
Mar 18, 2013, 9:33 AM
[ in reply to Re: Exactly ] |
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USC has 4 Conference Titles since 2000.
Vandy has 3 if you count Reg Season and Tournament separately.
FSU has 6 if you count Reg Season and Tournament separately.
We have 1.
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All-TigerNet [14451]
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Re: Exactly
Mar 18, 2013, 9:37 AM
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sigh, no talking to you guys. haters will be haters. outta here. done talking on the subject. you guys just sit back and watch how this baseball team improves with "elite" as you say recruiting.
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Legend [19352]
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Re: Exactly
Mar 18, 2013, 10:03 AM
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They have won more than Jack.
No one is being a hater. Jesus that term is just moronic. I have NEVER bashed Jack Leggett. That is a fact. I have criticized his decisions and our on field product over the years, but I have never "hated" or "bashed" Jack Leggett.
I respect the man for what he has done but I think it is time for a change. If that change is Bradley LeCroy then I would be fine with that, but to do the same thing over and over and over again expecting different results is just insane.
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Legend [19352]
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Re: Exactly
Mar 18, 2013, 9:35 AM
[ in reply to Re: Exactly ] |
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UVA has 4.
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110%er [5434]
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Re: Exactly
Mar 18, 2013, 10:19 AM
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I thought you wasn't going to talk about Jack this season????? Just can't help yourself
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CU Guru [1400]
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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i bet hootie would be happy to pat coach leggett on the back
Mar 17, 2013, 10:52 PM
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when jack is inducted into the college baseball hof.
just sayin'
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110%er [6937]
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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yeah. i wish he admitted to making a mistake when he took
Mar 17, 2013, 10:56 PM
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my last dollar on the yankee-redsox bet i lost to him. i was 12.
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110%er [6937]
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Re: He finally admitted that he made a big one with the
Mar 17, 2013, 11:04 PM
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oldest Anderson boy from the Timmonsville area. He went to SC as did his two younger brothers. All tore it up.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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yeah, uva had a shortstop years ago the my dad, then bill
Mar 17, 2013, 11:10 PM
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scouted. they both pretty much said the same thing, "he'd never help clemson get to omaha"...
that kid was 3 time all-acc first team ss playing at uva.
it happens, but it didn't happen with leggett.
i'll let you guys hash out how you feel today about the program's future. i know first hand how coach wilhelm felt about coach leggett and the things coach leggett did for clemson while coach at western carolina, et al.
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110%er [6937]
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Re: I just wish that he would do more for Clemson while
Mar 17, 2013, 11:45 PM
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he is at Clemson.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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bet he does too, still, a hof career and i thank him for it.***
Mar 17, 2013, 11:52 PM
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CU Guru [1400]
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Same here
Mar 18, 2013, 2:29 AM
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Still doesn't change the fact I don't want him to bring the Clemson baseball program down further than it is now.
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Orange Blooded [2217]
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Legend [16900]
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Re: Does anyone remember when the baseball team would
Mar 17, 2013, 10:29 PM
[ in reply to Re: Does anyone remember when the baseball team would ] |
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So we're shifting arguments again. If winning is winning then screw the ACC tournament. In games played they have IDENTICAL winning percentages. Please argue Wilhelm played a tougher schedule!!!! Wilhelm had a .706 ACC win percentage and Jack has a .646 ACC winning percentage. FSU and Miami - two long time baseball powers, not teams that rose to overtake Clemson - were not regular opponents for Wilhelm.
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110%er [6937]
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Re Wilhelm did not play as many games and most of them
Mar 17, 2013, 10:33 PM
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were ACC gams. Heck, Leggett has lost 12 or more ACC games in the last 6 to 8 years. Bill would have resigned, voluntarily, if he had done that.
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Legend [16900]
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Re: Re Wilhelm did not play as many games and most of them
Mar 17, 2013, 10:40 PM
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.706 ACC versus .646. Tied .683 overall. That totals games played so it doesn'tt matter how many in a season.
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110%er [6937]
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Re: Wilhelm never, never lost 20 of 21 games to UVA and
Mar 17, 2013, 10:43 PM
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have a dismal record against SC
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Legend [16900]
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Re: Wilhelm never, never lost 20 of 21 games to UVA and
Mar 17, 2013, 10:45 PM
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You're right in that point. But, since overall they lose at the same percentage he was losing the same number of games to someone. I'm sure you'd have been throwing him under the bus too.
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110%er [6937]
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Re: No, I want him to win and hope that he proves me
Mar 17, 2013, 10:55 PM
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wrong but I am not going to set here and let you or him tell me that he is the
best thing since sliced bread when he is clearly regressing.
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Orange Blooded [4988]
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Wilhelm never played a Uva team year in year out
Mar 17, 2013, 11:42 PM
[ in reply to Re: Wilhelm never, never lost 20 of 21 games to UVA and ] |
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that was consistently ranked high in the polls. In fact he hardly ever came close to playing a schedule with as many top 10 and top 25 teams as we do now. Of course that's no fault of Wilhelm's, but it is a fact if you go by rankings that our schedule now a days is much tougher than 20-30 yrs ago. To expect our Wins and Losses still maintain that high level is a little unreasonable. We still have a program that expects to get to Omaha every year. Until that changes we are fine.
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110%er [6937]
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Re: Wilhelm never made the big bucks & never was allowed
Mar 17, 2013, 11:49 PM
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a recruiting budget that leggett has.
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CU Guru [1400]
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I don't want to hear crap about our recruiting budget
Mar 17, 2013, 11:56 PM
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when up until this past recruiting class recruiting in our own GD state wasn't considered important.
It was only after several years of South Carolina whipping our ##### regular season and postseason with home-grown talent that we started to recruit our own state in anything more than a cursory manner. It was only after the fanbase started to raise the concern that it suddenly became important to recruit our own backyard.
To blame the recruiting budget when we concentrated on players out of state for years and years and years is a false flag. Put it away.
Message was edited by: Kaplony®
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Orange Blooded [4988]
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Once again, the competition is much stronger now
Mar 18, 2013, 8:29 AM
[ in reply to Re: Wilhelm never made the big bucks & never was allowed ] |
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Doesn't matter how big the budget is, the days of picking and choosing who you want are over. Our program is still very strong. Don't know what all the nitpicking is about.
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110%er [6937]
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Re:I remember that we use to do that but it seems like a
Mar 17, 2013, 9:57 PM
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long time ago. We can't beat the instate teams.
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Fan [71]
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Re: Does anyone remember when the baseball team would
Mar 17, 2013, 10:28 PM
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right here . i do. i remember beating our state rivals regularly. leggett needs to get his ### in the dugoutand stop being an ### on the field. oh and recruit locally #######.
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CU Guru [1197]
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and then we would win the CWS
Mar 17, 2013, 10:57 PM
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I remember all of that. No one could beat Clemson.
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