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Topic: Did FSU really have a choice?
Replies: 30   Last Post: Nov 22, 2020, 4:12 PM by: CaliforniaTiger®
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Did FSU really have a choice?

[2]
Posted: Nov 21, 2020, 11:08 PM
 

The protocol says if the 2 schools medical experts don't agree they have to work it out or postpone/cancel.

I'm sure the medical experts at FSU were told to be 100% sure or throw up the red flag. I know we're talking such small chances it's hardly calculable but even with that why would they put themselves in a position of potential liability?

In other words, why would they perhaps lose their jobs or careers to save a football game and possibly expose the university to major liability? IF they had played and IF there were an outbreak and IF a player/coach suffered illness or worse had long term consequences knowing a player had tested positive, they would have $million lawsuits within days to deal with.

From the 50,000 foot level it was a no-brainer.

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Re: Did FSU really have a choice?

[4]
Posted: Nov 21, 2020, 11:09 PM
 

it is a major NCAA violation for the coaches to threaten or intervene in the decisions of the medical staff for any reason. They have complete authority over whether a player can play, period. The suggestion that FSU wussed out is hilarious. People act as if these are not professionals who take their jobs seriously but are some how coming to the rescue to keep the program from getting embarrassed.

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Re: Did FSU really have a choice?

[2]
Posted: Nov 22, 2020, 12:00 AM
 

It had zero to do with an NCAA violation. That's pure garbage.

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Re: Did FSU really have a choice?


Posted: Nov 22, 2020, 12:10 AM
 

the point is that it was a decision completely out of the AD and coaches hands, otherwise they would have committed serious infractions in interfering with or influencing the decision of the medical staff to postpone the game.

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Re: Did FSU really have a choice?

[2]
Posted: Nov 22, 2020, 12:17 AM
 

Balm, you don't know what your talking about.

And it's a pretty bad look for you to be defending this slight to Clemson.

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Re: Did FSU really have a choice?

[2]
Posted: Nov 22, 2020, 9:26 AM
 

what is bad look is accusing someone of something with no evidence. and of course everything is a slight isn't it, it is personal, always the victim with some of you. And it is just flat out sad to see so many people who lack the critical thinking skills to see though the conspiracy theories.

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Re: Did FSU really have a choice?


Posted: Nov 22, 2020, 10:20 AM
 

Balm, I TUed you for the guts to use logic in your contrarian argument.

Most people who argue against “conspiracy theorists “ use just as much emotion as the theorists do, but because they defend a sometimes corrupt establishment, they consider themselves to be logical, “smart” or “science-based”.

Let me turn this around on you to reflect modern decision-making:

You say the medical staff make their decisions independently and based solely on the health data presented to them. Does communication only flow in one direction? What if the coaching staff was so WUSSED OUT that Norvell told the medical staff that “we really need a reason to get out of this game”? His program is splintered already, the Clemson program crushes opponents’ coaching careers, his team leaders are abandoning their team in a season they don’t have to play to keep their schollies; if FSU was in the midst of a championship season, would these independent medical people have cancelled the game over a single player who had tested negative repeatedly?

And yes, it is cancelled unless Clemson needs it.

It seems to me that if the data made the decision so obvious, you’re suggesting that this situation is unique. It’s not. Players have practiced with teams all season while testing negative without their later positive tests cancelling games.

Also if the data makes the decision so obvious, why didn’t our medical staff arrive at the same conclusion? Why were we surprised by the decision? Or do you think that isn’t true?

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I am not playing the contrarian


Posted: Nov 22, 2020, 3:01 PM
 

The NCAA rules are very strict here, the coaches have zero influence on the decisions made by the medical training staff, their decisions are absolute and final. It is because in the past coaches would coerce injured players and threaten their scholarships, so the NCAA made very strict rules about the team doctors having the clear a player, or the team for that matter before the coaches can even set their roster.

If The FSU team doctors felt it was too big of a risk to play the game, then that was their decision alone. Direct your anger at them, but they are just doing their jobs, jobs that are very hard to get and I am sure they would like to keep.

And what I find most insulting is that our fans think that FSU would intentionally screw us like this in the final hour. Believe or not, these AD's and coaches are professionals with a ton of mutual respect for one another and I imagine their coaches and player were let down as well.

At the end of the day the protocols failed us. Lesson learned, wait for the results of the tests to come back before boarding the plane next time.

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Re: Did FSU really have a choice?


Posted: Nov 22, 2020, 9:00 AM
 

This talking point of yours is completely untrue.

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Maybe, but that's not the fun angle to take.

[2]
Posted: Nov 21, 2020, 11:10 PM
 

I prefer to think of them as bunch of pansies that are running away from the bathroom swirlie they were going to get.

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Re: Maybe, but that's not the fun angle to take.

[2]
Posted: Nov 21, 2020, 11:13 PM
 

LOL...that may be true too....and quite possibly is. But they're there to protect the university as well.

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Re: Did FSU really have a choice?

[4]
Posted: Nov 21, 2020, 11:16 PM
 

You’re right, I’m sure they had no choice. There were no medical professionals who developed ACC protocols and also said the game could be played ??.

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You are correct, but if it is true that Clemson offered to get

emoji_events [10]
Posted: Nov 21, 2020, 11:19 PM
 

the team re-tested and then to play the game tonight, tomorrow (Sunday), or Monday that is above and beyond reasonable in my eyes.

Subjective, yes, but if FSU wanted to find a way to play the game, the game would have been played.

In addition, Clemson followed every medical protocol leading up to the game. These were the medical protocols established by the league prior to undertaking the season.

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Re: You are correct, but if it is true that Clemson offered to get

[2]
Posted: Nov 21, 2020, 11:28 PM
 

Agree 100%. I'm simply saying if you're at the top of the pile at FSU and the information shows there is even the tiniest potential of liability, none of that will matter. For some reason, the ACC chose not to play tie breaker in this situation and I can't help but believe that's because they didn't want to assume any liability either.

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Re: You are correct, but if it is true that Clemson offered to get


Posted: Nov 21, 2020, 11:41 PM
 

Agree with that - the ACC has no backbone. They are looking out for themselves.

I’m sure safety played a part in this but no way that was the only consideration. I find it hard to believe that this is the only game this season FSU has played where a player from their team or an opposing team tested positive on a Friday test.

link

Correct. Of course FSU should have the option to back out.

emoji_events [6]
Posted: Nov 22, 2020, 12:02 AM
 

But assuming Clemson followed all established protocols, and for all practical purposes lived up to their end of the bargain, if FSU does exercise their right to back out, it should result in a forfeit by them, and a win for Clemson. Maybe the rules and protocols need to be evaluated in light of this situation, but as it stands, Clemson should not be penalized to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars because the other team elects not to play.

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Re: Did FSU really have a choice?

[1]
Posted: Nov 21, 2020, 11:24 PM
 

I can see the SEC letting a team cancel 2 hours before kickoff on Bama too.....

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Re: Did FSU really have a choice?


Posted: Nov 22, 2020, 12:24 AM
 


The protocol says if the 2 schools medical experts don't agree they have to work it out or postpone/cancel.

I'm sure the medical experts at FSU were told to be 100% sure or throw up the red flag. I know we're talking such small chances it's hardly calculable but even with that why would they put themselves in a position of potential liability?

In other words, why would they perhaps lose their jobs or careers to save a football game and possibly expose the university to major liability? IF they had played and IF there were an outbreak and IF a player/coach suffered illness or worse had long term consequences knowing a player had tested positive, they would have $million lawsuits within days to deal with.

From the 50,000 foot level it was a no-brainer.



It is ridiculous to be posting this here on Tigernet. Do you think that Dabo and the rest of the Tiger staff, would for one second, put anybody's health at risk? Do you not give the man any credit for having any sense?
Maybe you have had a few brain poots, and don't realize it, just like those criminoles.

YES, FSU did have a choice. If they wanted to play this game, then they would have taken Dabo up on his offer of re-testing whole team, even playing on Sun or Mon.

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Re: Did FSU really have a choice?

[3]
Posted: Nov 22, 2020, 12:55 AM
 

Of course I do not think Coach Swinney or anyone at Clemson would put anyone's health at risk. What a ridiculous question to ask based off my post.

My point was that FSU made their decision, at least to the outside world, based on potential liability. It doesn't make sense that they could claim liability in the morning but not at night.

I'm not defending FSU. I hate what they did as much as anyone does. I'm only expressing what I think their view was. There may have been other things that affected their decision but doubtful we will ever know that.

My personal opinion - The Tigers got a "W" today even though it won't show that in the official statistics. Long run this will hurt FSU, especially in recruiting, and will not help the reputation of the university at all.

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Re: Did FSU really have a choice?

[1]
Posted: Nov 22, 2020, 1:54 AM
 

FSU sealed the deal on being the biggest basement dweller in all of football ??

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Re: Did FSU really have a choice?


Posted: Nov 22, 2020, 3:33 AM
 


Of course I do not think Coach Swinney or anyone at Clemson would put anyone's health at risk. What a ridiculous question to ask based off my post.

My point was that FSU made their decision, at least to the outside world, based on potential liability. It doesn't make sense that they could claim liability in the morning but not at night.

I'm not defending FSU. I hate what they did as much as anyone does. I'm only expressing what I think their view was. There may have been other things that affected their decision but doubtful we will ever know that.

My personal opinion - The Tigers got a "W" today even though it won't show that in the official statistics. Long run this will hurt FSU, especially in recruiting, and will not help the reputation of the university at all.


I agree with you on explaining FSU position. But I doubt it will hurt them. Reading between lines of Norvell interview, he's selling this as how much they care about their players. He's trying to build a better relationship with his team, and he'll use this as part of that.

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Re: Did FSU really have a choice?


Posted: Nov 22, 2020, 3:49 AM
 

You could very well be right. It will be interesting to hear what Coach Swinney says. Though, to his credit and since he is always such a gentleman, I doubt he will say anything too controversial.

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Re: Did FSU really have a choice?


Posted: Nov 22, 2020, 5:20 AM
 

If they had waited another day, they could have known if it was a false positive or not through retesting.

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Re: Did FSU really have a choice?

[1]
Posted: Nov 22, 2020, 8:10 AM
 

There is absolutely nothing that would surprise me out of FSU.

Dalvin Cook
Jamiest thievery and table top antics
Free Shoes University

Athletes openly complain about Covid practices. Hushed up

Coaches and players test positive. Games go on.

History tends to repeat itself so pardon my lack of belief.

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ONLY someone from California, or one with


Posted: Nov 22, 2020, 9:00 AM
 

California ties could defend such gutless action by the semi-holes. Read again - - CLEMSON FOLLOWED ALL THE ACC PROTOCOLS. Not some. ALL. Even agreed to stay and play Sat nite, Sunday . My God, even Monday. The semi’s were not gonna play. What part of that r u unable to comprehend?

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Re: ONLY someone from California, or one with


Posted: Nov 22, 2020, 4:12 PM
 

Obviously, reading is not one of your strengths:

"I'm not defending FSU. I hate what they did as much as anyone does. I'm only expressing what I think their view was. There may have been other things that affected their decision but doubtful we will ever know that."

Neither is your ability to have a discussion without throwing out cheap insults.

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Re: Did FSU really have a choice?

[1]
Posted: Nov 22, 2020, 9:24 AM
 

Could you explain what liability you are referring to? Players were given the option at the beginning of the season to opt out. The ACC and its member institutions developed protocols for the safety of the players. The players know and understand the protocols as part of their decision to play this year. The protocols were adhered to.

There are inherent risks to playing football and this year that includes COVID. FSU was under no more liability than they would have been to a young man breaking his leg during the game. These young men know the risks (which are less than the general university population related to COVID) and choose to play. The ONLY reason this game was not played is because the Seminole Indian is wearing chicken feathers on his head.

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Re: Did FSU really have a choice?

[1]
Posted: Nov 22, 2020, 9:28 AM
 

Yes, they did. If they are too afraid of the “IFs” you outline, the football team shouldn’t be playing at all this year.

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Re: Did FSU really have a choice?

[1]
Posted: Nov 22, 2020, 9:30 AM
 

Not much oxygen at 50,000 ft. It would make anyone delirious.

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Re: Did FSU really have a choice?

[2]
Posted: Nov 22, 2020, 9:57 AM
 

Based on your view, we should just pack the whole season in. Even with symptomatic patients, the false negative test rate on day one of symptoms is 38%. Three days later with symptoms, the false negative rate is still 20%. So despite all the testing, players are potentially being exposed to the virus. What's to stop an attorney from making just that case if a player or coach were to get profoundly sick or die.An asymptomatic person can certainly also test negative, still be infected and transmit the virus. I get your point that we had a known as of Friday positive patient, but if everyone tested negative on Sunday or Monday as offered, that's as good as before any game. The testing protocol is important, but it in no way eliminates the potential for sickness or death. The Big 10 and Pac 12 made a big deal of not playing to protect the players, back tracked and now play with players being tested often. They have not eliminated the risk. To me it seemed reasonable to wait a day or two, retest and play. The snap shot in time testing then is about as good as it will be for FSU's next game. Source Check--Annals of Internal Medicine--8/18/20

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Re: Did FSU really have a choice?


Posted: Nov 22, 2020, 2:55 PM
 

If they can't agree the ACC should make the decision. And isn't it a bit ridiculous that we are this scared of the possibility that one player might be sick from something that is literally not as dangerous as the car ride to the stadium for these players?

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