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The latest exhibit for why religion, all religion,
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Connoisseur [352]
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The latest exhibit for why religion, all religion,
Sep 12, 2012, 8:02 PM
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belongs in mosques, churches, and temples, and not in governments, militaries, or in public.
Islam, you're first. Murdering diplomats, terrorizing civilians, celebrating the deaths of innocents, and throwing acid on girls that dare go to school. Your god must be SO proud. Maybe you don't want to leave the stone age, but stop trying to drag down the rest of us with you.
And Christians, I have to congratulate you on ceasing to be violent in the last half century or so, but I still don't need your antiquated worldviews influencing my government or your contorted morality written into laws. Hate all of the education, science, gays, or whatever else you want to hate in the privacy of your own homes, if you can find time between all of the sodomizing little boys and casting holier-than-thou aspersive glares.
And Jews, yes, Arabs hate you. Maybe it has something to do with murdering civilians and bulldozing neighborhoods in Palenstine, I don't know. Either way, stop constantly playing the victim card when the majority of the world has bent over backwards for you since the 1940's. For Yahweh's sake, even the Christians have your back, despite you denouncing their savior.
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Rock Defender [53]
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So all Christians now sodomize boys. Wow, heard it first
Sep 12, 2012, 8:06 PM
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here folks.
You also do not know that much about Abraham.
You need to get some reading and studying accomplished before writing crap like this on a public forum.
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Lot o points [180907]
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Religion's don't suck...
Sep 12, 2012, 8:07 PM
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people do.
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Legend [18007]
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"guns don't kill"
Sep 12, 2012, 8:09 PM
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people do.
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Lot o points [180907]
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This is also correct.***
Sep 12, 2012, 8:10 PM
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Legend [18007]
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I'd say spirituality doesn't suck. Religions do.....
Sep 12, 2012, 8:11 PM
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Because they are/were invented by people.
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Lot o points [180907]
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So does the new iphone suck?
Sep 12, 2012, 8:17 PM
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Legend [18007]
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Re: So does the new iphone suck?
Sep 12, 2012, 8:20 PM
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Oculus Spirit [79401]
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No, Islam sucks a pretty hard one...
Sep 12, 2012, 8:10 PM
[ in reply to Religion's don't suck... ] |
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While common sense tells me not all Muslims are violent or hold the beliefs of the radicals, their silence in the wake of violence throughout the years is very telling. Sure, some have spoken out against it, but I haven't seen any of their "leaders" do or say anything.
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CU Medallion [58377]
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And do any of the other major religions have this many
Sep 12, 2012, 8:22 PM
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all-out nuts, who are currently committing this level of violence in the name of their religion? I mean, this latest incident was perpetrated and fueled by a level of ignorance and craziness that I don't see in other religions.
I know there are millions of peaceful, sensible Muslims, but they seem to have way more than their share of idiots.
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CU Medallion [56005]
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It's more about the culture than the religion.
Sep 12, 2012, 8:32 PM
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And believe me, as an atheist I'm in no way forgiving the religion itself. However, Islam has followed a different path than Christianity, particularly European Christianity, which had itself some Renaissances and Enlightenments. If the Middle East were to have take a cultural quantum leap forward, you'd quickly see them abandoning the fire and brimstone sections of the Quran for whatever snuggly bits they can wrangle up. For now, it's just this:
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Oculus Spirit [79401]
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I can agree with that, but where is the outrage by
Sep 12, 2012, 8:37 PM
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American and European Muslim leaders and their followers? Maybe it just isn't being covered, which is a very good possibility, but with all the controversy surrounding the religion itself across the globe, you would think we would be hearing from some of the non-radical Muslim leaders. I'd think they would want to at least try and restore Islam's reputation amongst the world after violent attacks such as these. Although, like I said, they could be and I'm just not seeing it, nor have I ever.
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110%er [9771]
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b/c they're scared they'd be kilt, too***
Sep 12, 2012, 8:42 PM
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Oculus Spirit [79401]
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Well, F all of them then.***
Sep 12, 2012, 8:48 PM
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Oculus Spirit [83019]
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110%er [8142]
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But where is it if you really don't want to see it?***
Sep 13, 2012, 1:09 PM
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Legend [18007]
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Bingo. More to that point...
Sep 12, 2012, 8:41 PM
[ in reply to It's more about the culture than the religion. ] |
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Islam used to be a scientific and intellectual leader up until about the 12th century when the Islamic scholar al-Ghazali declared that mathematics is the work of the devil. The religion started to become more and more anti-science and they withdrew more and more intellectually, until they literally were back in the cave.
Christianity was spared that same course by things like you mentioned with the Renaissance and Enlightenment.
Getting back to your culture point, what Islam is now is similar to Christianity during the middle ages and should be a reminder that Religion should never turn it's back to progress.
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All-In [28802]
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that is a gross simplification of history***
Sep 13, 2012, 12:22 PM
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Legend [18007]
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It is a simplification (only about 3 sentences) but...
Sep 13, 2012, 3:15 PM
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it's not gross. The point is clear and true.
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CU Medallion [58377]
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It's about both - they are inextricably intertwined, and
Sep 12, 2012, 9:00 PM
[ in reply to It's more about the culture than the religion. ] |
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there is probably a reason that Islam is so prevalent in cultures that could stand a quantum leap forward.
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Oculus Spirit [83019]
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Good point, seriously, and lack of birth control
Sep 12, 2012, 9:31 PM
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in these countries is related to that...which keeps people very poor.
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Ring of Honor [32958]
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Let's throw a long hard look at illiteracy as well.***
Sep 13, 2012, 7:14 AM
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Rock Defender [53]
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Other than oil in some countries the middle east has no
Sep 12, 2012, 10:15 PM
[ in reply to It's more about the culture than the religion. ] |
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resources, no modern economic or industrial base, and no clue of democracy or anything other than totalitarianism in one form or another. Liberals complain about the dictators we have supported in the past, and granted, some of them did a lot of things we did not and do not condone. But come on people, get a clue, rulers like the Shah of Iran and the royal family in Saudi Arabia gave these rock throwing cretins the best and highest standard of living and most stability these countries have ever seen. Anyone with a brain saw the dangers ahead and ultimate outcome of the recent Arab spring. It was clear the Muslim Brotherhood would end up in control and radicalize these once secular countries. That idiot Obama cheered them on!! And repeatedly said claims that the Muslim Brotherhood would take control of these countries was unfounded. What an idiot!! This guy is the least qualified, most liberal president we have ever had and it shows in his total lack of credible leadership.
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CU Medallion [56005]
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"Liberals complain about the dictators"
Sep 12, 2012, 11:39 PM
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Not sure where you were in 2003, but what I was hearing from conservatives was that the dictator in Iraq was terrible and a terrorist who needed to be removed. It's weird to hear conservatives attacking the Bush doctrine.
But yes, otherwise I agree that the Middle East has no significant economy besides oil. Were it not for that, we'd look at them the way we do at much of Africa.
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110%er [8142]
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I don't remember hearing any of them lamenting...
Sep 13, 2012, 1:11 PM
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... the passing of Mr. Gaddaffi either.
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All-In [28802]
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Ring of Honor [32958]
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If not for changing cultural norms, outside Biblical
Sep 13, 2012, 12:44 PM
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teachings, the Christians would still have slaves, treat women as chattel, and have no qualms with torturing people into "confession". Oh wait, you still don't mind the torture.
But while culture and religion certainly are informed by one another, there are distinct differences in the two as well.
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All-TigerNet [14282]
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William Wilberforce doesn't agree with your slave point***
Sep 13, 2012, 12:48 PM
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110%er [8142]
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Christians led the abolitionist movement, absolutely...
Sep 13, 2012, 1:19 PM
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... but the mainstream sects were unfortunately aiders and abetters of the slave culture. Wilberforce was not involved in the cause until he left the Church of England, and the most American abolitionists were Quakers and the like.
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Ring of Honor [32958]
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Unfortunately, Christians led the opposition to it as well.***
Sep 13, 2012, 1:39 PM
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All-In [28802]
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on behalf of Christianity? as a Christian duty?***
Sep 13, 2012, 1:42 PM
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110%er [8142]
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Yes.***
Sep 13, 2012, 1:43 PM
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All-In [28802]
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No***
Sep 13, 2012, 1:44 PM
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110%er [8142]
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You know your Kans and you Kants pretty well.
Sep 13, 2012, 1:50 PM
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But you don't know history. Southern churches took the view that white people were superior and it was our Christian duty to maintain that position. One of the main reasons they were able to convince so many young men to volunteer to give their lives for it.
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All-In [28802]
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ah, so it was southern churches that led...
Sep 13, 2012, 1:53 PM
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the fight to preserve slavery? In the same way that Christians, motivated by what they saw as their Christian duty, led the abolition movement? Most people know that some Christians took a paternalistic view of slavery and white/black relations, but I haven't heard about church leadership in support of slavery.
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Ring of Honor [32958]
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Wasn't it the Methodist Church that split over the issue?
Sep 13, 2012, 2:01 PM
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But at least they got back together after the war.
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110%er [8142]
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Tell me something, where did you get most of your...
Sep 13, 2012, 2:06 PM
[ in reply to ah, so it was southern churches that led... ] |
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... history education? Because it sounds a lot like the school had the word "christian" somewhere in it's name. Very selective and biased, if you don't mind my saying so. Although I didn't actually say that "southern churches led the fight to preserve slavery", much in the same way I didn't say economics was the only factor in Islamic terrorism, if you don't know the prominent role southern churches had in preserving pro-slavery attitudes in the south, then you just don't know much about the subject.
BTW, I acknowledged many posts ago the prominent (indeed decisive) role some Christians had in the abolitionist movement.
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All-In [28802]
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well then, we're both misconstruing eachother
Sep 13, 2012, 2:17 PM
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because I haven't said that no churches played a role in preserving slavery, or that no Christians were prominent in its preservation. Only that the role churches and some Christians played in preserving slavery is not comparable to the role Christianity, itself, played in the abolition movement.
And, not that it matters, I've never gone to a private school until I got my MA from The University of Chicago in political theory.
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110%er [8142]
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I agree with that. While southern churches played...
Sep 13, 2012, 2:28 PM
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... a critical role in the forming of public opinions regarding slavery, particularly among non-slaveholders, economics was obviously the driving force. On the other hand, I think it's accurate to say that Christianity was at the heart of the abolitionist movement. Of course, they had a much easier Christian row to hoe too! You have to jump through some serious hoops to justify slavery in a Christian context.
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Ring of Honor [32958]
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All-In [28802]
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some would say Christianity kept slavery a problem
Sep 13, 2012, 1:33 PM
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even if, as you say, certain cultural differences made it salient in different places. That cult makes culture, of course, does not mean that every culture influenced by a given "cult" is going to be the same. But it does usually mean that the cultures affected by a given "cult" will have similar enough concerns and behaviors to be treated as a larger body. Hence, we have "the west" where Christianity has been the majority for centuries (some of the European west was once "the east," because of the influence of Orthodox Christianity), an emergent middle east where Islam is in the majority, and a far east influenced by asian religions. The cultures throughout those regions are diverse, but those united by a religion share a history that the others do not have.
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Ring of Honor [32958]
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No, I would say some Christians did. Not the religion
Sep 13, 2012, 2:05 PM
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itself. And some Christians led the charge against slavery.
But as I said in my post, the abolitionist movement didn't get is start from Biblical teachings, or none that I can find.
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110%er [8142]
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More specifically, it's about the dinars.
Sep 13, 2012, 1:08 PM
[ in reply to It's more about the culture than the religion. ] |
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Income disparity in Muslim countries is the driving force behind radical Islam. Statistically, the most likely victim of Islamic terrorism is another Muslim. Islam has serious problems that only Muslims can solve, but the religion itself is a victim, not the cause. A very samll elite of very wealthy people combined with a very large population of very poor people generally does lead to civil unrest and radical politics.
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All-In [28802]
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it might increase it, yes
Sep 13, 2012, 1:35 PM
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but the form it takes is, by and large, due to the religion itself. You might also ask why it is that homogenously islamic cultures have never been able to create more egalitarian societies. But then, you might have to acknowledge that there's more to strife than economics.
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110%er [8142]
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I didn't suggest that economics was the only factor.
Sep 13, 2012, 1:43 PM
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And I did say that Islam has major problems. But in order to place Islam at the heart of this violence, you must be willing to eradicate a lot of Christian history. You've already demonstrated a willingness to do that, and I can't compete with that.
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All-In [28802]
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Income disparity in Muslim countries is the driving force...
Sep 13, 2012, 1:51 PM
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"More specifically, it's about the dinars."
I'll grant that you could be saying "it's about" in the sense that it might be the most important factor behind radicalism, rather than the only important factor.
Islam can certainly be placed at the center of this violence, and with no reference to Christianity. Frankly, I'm not sure what Christianity has to do with radical Islamic violence, other than providing it with a convenient enemy because of the apparent inferiority of Islamic cultures. And, Christianity has, of course, been more or less violent at times, but that violence was different (which doesn't necessarily, here, need to mean better or worse) than the kind that has been inspired by Islam. The differenc becomes manifest, to start off, when you think about the fact that there has never been, and never could legitimately be, a body of Christian political law comparable to Shari'a.
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All-In [28802]
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depends what the religion is, doesn't it?
Sep 13, 2012, 12:20 PM
[ in reply to Religion's don't suck... ] |
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Obviously people suck, but a religion that aimed for immanent world domination might suck a little more than one that preached a future kingdom of God rather than a present utopia. It's no more helpful, and no less ignorant, to say that all religions are good than it is to say that all are bad.
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Heisman Winner [119597]
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Find a place to hide, Errand Wolfe cause
Sep 12, 2012, 9:27 PM
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a buncha kooks will be looking for you!
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All-In [28802]
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have fun being ignorant
Sep 13, 2012, 12:18 PM
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As much as you like to think you know, it doesn't appear you have any idea about Christianity's relation to the west, or about supposed "religious violence" before "the Enlightenment." But, I suppose, have fun feeling superior.
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Starter [365]
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Dear Errant Wolfe
Sep 13, 2012, 1:20 PM
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All of the world's religions together can't hold a candle to the evil done by governments that exclude religion. Mao killed 65 million, Stalin & Lenin killed 20 million, and other communist governments killed another 10 million or so. Hitler was an amateur compared to the communists.
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110%er [8142]
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Good to see someone's got Hitler's back!***
Sep 13, 2012, 1:22 PM
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Orange Blooded [2519]
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You forgot one - Atheist, stop murdering people by the
Sep 13, 2012, 1:40 PM
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millions. Stop creating gulags and concentration camps and world wards.
Stop declaring yourselves superior to all people who have faith in something that can't be seen, even though it results in more peace and prosperity for most people. Stop complaining because other people don't not believe like you don't.
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Connoisseur [352]
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I wonder how this thread would have gone
Sep 13, 2012, 1:49 PM
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if only Islam and its atrocities, silliness, and evil was brought up.
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Orange Blooded [4521]
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Re: The latest exhibit for why religion, all religion,
Sep 13, 2012, 1:52 PM
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