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Legend [16900]
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Congrats to everyone that pushed to have Jack fired
May 28, 2021, 11:30 AM
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DRad has officially told you that you can sleep in the bed you made and our baseball program can go #### itself as far as he is concerned. When I bet Lee wouldn’t last, I could not have imagined him being retained after a losing season. Women’s volleyball is now held to a higher standard than baseball at Clemson. Enjoy #######.
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CU Medallion [64972]
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Are you also equally disturbed that the Colonies broke away
May 28, 2021, 11:47 AM
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from Merry Olde England?
You do realize you have an equal chance of getting those two decisions reversed? Way past time to move on from commenting about Leggett.
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Legend [16900]
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Re: Are you also equally disturbed that the Colonies broke away
May 28, 2021, 11:58 AM
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The comment is about retaining a losing baseball coach - the firing of Leggett provides context. Our AD clearly doesn’t give AF about the performance of our baseball team. Hence retaining a coach with a losing record. It also reveals that, in all likelihood, Leggett wasn’t removed for his actual performance. You literally can’t reconcile the two. So our AD fired him because of a personality conflict or because he was tired of defending him to angry boosters - either is a sh*tty way to run the department. It further reveals that fans making the most noise probably never really gave a sh*t about baseball either - they just couldn’t handle South Carolina winning. Now that they’re back to being inconsequential everyone is free to simply ignore baseball again.
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All-TigerNet [11065]
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Send DRad a letter already***
May 28, 2021, 12:03 PM
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Hall of Famer [22127]
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Re: Send DRad a letter already***
May 28, 2021, 12:10 PM
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Better yet, he should go talk to the AD directly.
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Orange Blooded [3135]
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They would probably call the police like the walkon's father***
May 30, 2021, 12:02 AM
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: Are you also equally disturbed that the Colonies broke away
May 28, 2021, 12:15 PM
[ in reply to Re: Are you also equally disturbed that the Colonies broke away ] |
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Coach Leggett is gone because he refused to fire a pitching coach at D Rad's request who wasn't getting the job done.
Coach See may need to worry since it seems D Rad is happy with Monte.
I don't know that there has been any request to shake up the staff, but it seems like something would be happening after a season like this one.
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Legend [16900]
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Re: Are you also equally disturbed that the Colonies broke away
May 28, 2021, 12:19 PM
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Cool. Good to know the pitching coach is the problem and that as long as our AD is there to point that out to the head coach everything will work out great. Why would the head coach know where the weak link in his staff is better than the AD? Silly me.
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: Are you also equally disturbed that the Colonies broke away
May 28, 2021, 12:22 PM
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I'm not saying the pitching coach is the problem, but Lecroy isn't going anywhere.
Lecroy was safe when Leggett was here too.
There are only 2 paid assistants so it's not like there is much room for creativity if changes are demanded.
Leggett got "make changes or you are gone".
If Lee gets the same, who do you think will be gone?
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Orange Blooded [4854]
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Re: Are you also equally disturbed that the Colonies broke away
May 28, 2021, 12:23 PM
[ in reply to Re: Are you also equally disturbed that the Colonies broke away ] |
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You may want to listen to the Spencer Strider interview that the link was posted in the baseball forum.
Was pitching or hitting the issue this past season?
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: Are you also equally disturbed that the Colonies broke away
May 28, 2021, 12:30 PM
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Clearly both that's why the season was so terrible.
If only one is to blame then the season would have been mediocre instead of terrible.
Do you disagree that Lecroy is safe from being fired?
If D Rad wants changes to the staff, his options are Lee or See.
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Orange Blooded [4854]
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Re: Are you also equally disturbed that the Colonies broke away
May 28, 2021, 1:16 PM
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He has been. If I remember correctly he was retained from Jack's staff by Monte. Seems like that had to do with recruiting and the I have seen that recruiting class rank has went well, ranking wise. He has been around Clemson for a long time time - player and two stints as a coach. Having said that we do need to improve our hitting and he is the hitting coach. Maybe a reassigned role, while remaining the recruiting coordinator.
See is fine.
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Orange Blooded [4444]
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All-In [43990]
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The default reaction of blaming the administration is
May 28, 2021, 1:53 PM
[ in reply to Re: Are you also equally disturbed that the Colonies broke away ] |
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an ignorant mentality.
We know little to nothing about the interactions between Radakovich and Leggett. By all accounts, Radakovich is very well liked whereas Leggett is known to rub some people the wrong way. I'm not sure why you choose to assume that Jack is innocent here, but athletic directors don't typically fire super successful coaches unless there is a serious problem. You can bet that Leggett played a role in his own demise.
This reminds me of the Danny Ford situation at Clemson, and how many fans solely blame the administration because it's the easy thing to do, with no consideration that their beloved coach played a role in the situation as well. It's ridiculous enough that many fans are still not over that situation, over 30 years after the fact!
I think Leggett is a really good coach, and I hate that he was let go. But I have to assume that there were some significant issues behind the scenes for it to have happened like it did. Regardless, a lot of fans were restless about the perceived lack of success toward the end of Jack's tenure. If nothing else, Radakovich should be praised for making a hard decision to fire a legend in an attempt to improve the program. Can you at least give him credit for that?
To accuse the administration of not caring about baseball is ludicrous. They recently upgraded the baseball facilities, and also fired a legendary coach who has had a ton of success in an effort to improve the program. If they didn't care, they wouldn't have fired someone with Jack's credentials, would they?
Overreacting to one losing season is not the way to run an athletic department.
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Orange Blooded [4854]
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Re: The default reaction of blaming the administration is
May 28, 2021, 1:57 PM
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Danny had a target on his back by professor's and their ilk. They were mad about their pay versus his and players not going to class. Then he gave them ammunition to fire by being a protective parent. Not the same.
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All-In [43990]
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There are obviously differences between the two situations.
May 28, 2021, 2:03 PM
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My point is that both Jack and Danny played a role in being fired.
If Danny hadn't publicly complained about the administration on multiple occasions, he probably wouldn't have lost his job. If Danny hadn't been the coach when we were cited for multiple NCAA infractions, leading to probation, with another NCAA investigation underway, Danny probably wouldn't have been fired. And if Danny had made his players go to class and valued the academic side of things, he probably wouldn't have been fired.
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Orange Blooded [4854]
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Re: There are obviously differences between the two situations.
May 28, 2021, 2:21 PM
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Oh, I gave you a thumbs up on your comment's entirety, just felt the circumstances of administration's witch hunt that Ford had endured was different than some fan's for not delivering constantly was a different type of animal.
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Orange Blooded [4444]
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Re: There are obviously differences between the two situations.
May 29, 2021, 10:20 PM
[ in reply to There are obviously differences between the two situations. ] |
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Jack fired himself just as Tommy Bowden and Danny did They could have saved themselves As Frank Howard once said No one person is greater than the university
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Legend [16900]
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All-In [43990]
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It was implied by your angry post.***
May 28, 2021, 3:43 PM
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Legend [16900]
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So, nowhere. And you lied as usual.***
May 28, 2021, 4:04 PM
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All-In [43990]
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Since we are only going by things that have explicitly been stated
May 28, 2021, 5:42 PM
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please show us where DRad said that he doesn’t care about baseball.
TIA.
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Legend [16900]
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Re: Since we are only going by things that have explicitly been stated
May 28, 2021, 6:58 PM
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In the spirit of your nicer than usual message below, I’ll try and be nice. I did say his comments in letting Jack go are irreconcilable with his comments about retaining Lee which I believe is explicit. If I needed to explicitly state that “based on the aforementioned I believe that DRad is administrating in bad faith” I apologize and will try to do better in the future. But, I also did say that one of his motives was a personality conflict. I was not aware that personality conflicts were presumptively unidirectional. The personality conflict could have been caused by Jack or, as in most personality conflicts, both parties. However, DRad’s job is to administrate in the best interest of the programs / school. Satisfying his own personal feelings should not be anywhere on the radar. Perhaps a donor was going to withhold such an incredible sum of money if Jack wasn’t released that it would more than offset the real and opportunity costs associated with Jack’s removal. If so, DRad may have acted in the best interest of Clemson but also establishing a potentially dangerous precedent. But, from what tiny sliver of inside knowledge I’ve been given donors leaned on DRad about Jack but no one threatened to pull money. The big donors all care about football and weren’t about to lose their places in line over baseball right as football was turning a corner. And while I’m here, you referenced the baseball renovations as a demonstration that the AD is invested in baseball. The baseball renovations completed in 2015 were funded by private donations raised by Leggett. So I don’t think that helps your case.
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Oculus Spirit [76721]
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Re: Since we are only going by things that have explicitly been stated
May 28, 2021, 9:48 PM
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Viz, are you an attorney by trade? Just curious.
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Legend [16900]
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Re: Since we are only going by things that have explicitly been stated
May 29, 2021, 9:45 AM
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No, but I certainly considered it. Still do. Mostly so I could quit paying lawyers.
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Freshman [-99]
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Re: The default reaction of blaming the administration is
May 28, 2021, 8:51 PM
[ in reply to The default reaction of blaming the administration is ] |
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Jack was not super successful. In fact the best three years he had were his first three years. That was the best three consecutive years in his 18 years as head coach. His first three years. The program was in steady decline under his leader ship. And the 2006 and 2010 teams completely choked in Omaha primarily because of his coaching style and personality. That guy was wrapped way too freaking tight!
Jack needed to be fired just like Tommy Bowden should’ve been fired a hell of a lot sooner and Brad Brownell has had more than nine lives!
Jack needed to go but that has nothing to do with the fact that Monte has been a disappointment. They are mutually exclusive events.
I knew halfway through Tommy Bowden‘s third season that he needed to be fired because RichRod was clearly the reason for Bowden’s success.
Brad Brownell should’ve been fired years ago. And the last few years have been an absolute embarrassment.
This year‘s baseball team is the worst since 1957! That is mind blowing for such a proud program. Unfortunately, Clemson has a problem with firing coaches. Unlike other schools that fire coaches too quickly, we hang on to coaches way too long. Part of the problem is our fans. They blindly support the administration no matter what and they are way too hung up on the nice guy image. Frankly I think it’s great that we have Dabo and I would rather have him than Nick Saban, but the reality is I don’t really care! As long as they win big and don’t cheat and do right by the players that’s really all I care about! And that’s really all anyone should care about. Because that’s what sports are about. Including college sports! and that’s why they are paid to do! But when they are not getting the job done and it’s obvious they’re not getting the job done then it is time for them to go! I don’t care how nice they are. If they can’t handle the pressure they should’ve chosen a different career!
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Legend [16900]
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Re: The default reaction of blaming the administration is
May 28, 2021, 9:21 PM
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The point wasn’t to relitigate whether Jack should have been fired. We are in complete and total disagreement but it is irrelevant. The point being, if firing Jack can be remotely justified (which most here believe), then tolerating the season we just had (and overall decline) is completely unacceptable.
Btw - I am in total agreement about being done with Bowden in Season 3. Even in Season 2 we saw his inability to motivate and manage the team. The played worse almost every week that season. Starting 8-0 then going 1-3 to close and the humiliating blow out by VT in the bowl.
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Orange Blooded [4854]
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Re: Congrats to everyone that pushed to have Jack fired
May 28, 2021, 12:19 PM
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Jack pushed to have that happen. He was given a chance to make changes to improve and refused.
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Legend [16900]
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Re: Congrats to everyone that pushed to have Jack fired
May 28, 2021, 12:28 PM
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It was reported by Baseball America that after their meeting Leggett understood that he would be retained. DRad changed his mind later and did not confer with Leggett again. In either case, Leggett had 1 year left on his contract. The notion that DRad would have a better idea how to make that season successful than Leggett is idiotic. The same actually applies to Lee. If DRad has a better baseball idea than Lee he shouldn’t be here in the first place. The wins and losses belong to the head coach. If See is the problem then he should have seen that before it resulted in the first losing season in over half a century. An AD forcing a head coach to fire an assistant is pathetic scapegoating. Dabo fired Steele because it was the right move for the football program. Do you think he needed someone to lean on him to make that happen?
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Orange Blooded [4854]
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Re: Congrats to everyone that pushed to have Jack fired
May 28, 2021, 1:21 PM
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Maybe Leggett missed on the overall feel of that meeting - could not see past his own self. Our program had not been moving forward for years and I did not read any article that indicated Jack was willing to adjust whatsoever, like I have with Brad and now Monte.
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Associate AD [805]
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Re: Congrats to everyone that pushed to have Jack fired
May 28, 2021, 12:37 PM
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I guess we're assuming that personnel decisions that are "behind doors" are simply "everybody knows."
And, of course, that's absurd.
Jack was temperamental, stubborn, and intractable. No telling what was said to and by whom, who was upset, who issued an ultimatum.
Besides, water over the ###. Jack's gone. Monte is hated. And haters gotta hate.
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Legend [16120]
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And yet you won't stop whining about Basketball, failing
May 28, 2021, 12:38 PM
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to realize the exact same thing could happen after we run a coach who just made the NCAAT
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Legend [16900]
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Re: And yet you won't stop whining about Basketball, failing
May 28, 2021, 1:09 PM
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Pretty big difference between firing a great coach with a tremendous, long term record and firing mediocre to bad coaches. Leggett went to 6 CWS which is the basketball equivalent of the Elite 8. Brownell nor Lee have ever reached that milestone. Brownell has 1 Sweet Sixteen which is the equivalent of a Super Regional. Leggett made 11 of those. Leggett went a single 5 year period with advancing to a Super Regional/CWS and was promptly fired. Lee has never - ever - been past a SR, never advanced past a regional at Clemson, and finished this 5 year period with a losing record and is retained. These are not comparable or rational decisions. Brownell is certainly performing better than Lee - but not spectacularly and certainly not to the standard that wasn’t good enough for retaining Leggett.
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Orange Blooded [4854]
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Re: And yet you won't stop whining about Basketball, failing
May 28, 2021, 1:32 PM
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When was that great record you speak of? It certainly wasn't happening in the time surrounding Jack's dismissal. Seems like not since likes of a studed group of assistant coaches got hired away - Corbin, O’Sullivan, Bakich. 2010 was the lone CWS appearance past 2006.
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Legend [16120]
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All-In [43990]
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Let me know when Brownell inherits one of the top basketball
May 28, 2021, 2:00 PM
[ in reply to Re: And yet you won't stop whining about Basketball, failing ] |
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programs in America.
Otherwise, comparing Leggett's tenure to Brownell's is extremely misleading.
Because Radakovich realizes those key differences, Brad still has a job coaching at Clemson, and Leggett does not.
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Legend [16900]
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Re: Let me know when Brownell inherits one of the top basketball
May 28, 2021, 2:29 PM
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I said Brownell was better than Lee. But you should stay in your lane. He turned 3 straight NCAAs into 3 in 11 years.
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All-In [27286]
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Re: Congrats to everyone that pushed to have Jack fired
May 28, 2021, 1:09 PM
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This is pretty hypocritical IMO as over the last several weeks you have been a strong advocate and engaged in many heated debates with Judge Keller® about firing Brownell. And now you berate people who shared your same argument years ago when it was Jacks time to go?
Not cool
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Legend [16900]
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Re: Congrats to everyone that pushed to have Jack fired
May 28, 2021, 1:17 PM
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So if I ever think one coach should be fired I can’t ever think another shouldn’t? It’s almost as though Leggett and Brownell are two different coaches with completely different achievements. If you’re accusing me of not advocating for retaining Leggett at the time and only saying something now that our baseball team is losing, you are mistaken. So nothing hypocritical whatsoever about my positions.
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All-In [27286]
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Re: Congrats to everyone that pushed to have Jack fired
May 28, 2021, 1:35 PM
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You can have your opinions. But why attack others for theirs? When you state your opinions about Brownell and people disagree you get all defensive. And now your sitting in the other boat pointing the finger back. How can you not see the hypocrisy?
Idk. Like I said maybe it’s just me.
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All-In [43990]
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It's not just you. It's how viz rolls.***
May 28, 2021, 2:01 PM
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Legend [16900]
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Re: Congrats to everyone that pushed to have Jack fired
May 28, 2021, 2:27 PM
[ in reply to Re: Congrats to everyone that pushed to have Jack fired ] |
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You called me a hypocrite - I defended myself. You clearly don’t understand what the word means if you’re sticking by it. I would accept: overheated, #######, belligerent et. al. But I am not being a hypocrite.
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All-In [27286]
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Re: Congrats to everyone that pushed to have Jack fired
May 28, 2021, 2:40 PM
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I admire your passion for CU athletics. But you don’t have to be a jerk and bash others on this board. Remember we are all here (mostly) to support the same school and it’s athletic programs. Taking your frustrations out on like minded people calling them pea brains and such just makes you look stoopid.
Ok enjoy the last word. Have a good weekend
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Legend [16900]
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Re: Congrats to everyone that pushed to have Jack fired
May 28, 2021, 2:49 PM
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JK and I have been going at it quite awhile. I don’t think you and I have ever had an issue and I find you are usually are respectful poster. JK has lied and misrepresented my statements on so many occasions that any pretense of civility has long been abandoned. If you’re calling out my language you might want to look at the trail that JK, JStone, clemmountainner, and that posse leave behind. I can respect and appreciate what I am taking as a call for more civility. I took your first reply as an insult and reacted. I’m also quite pissed about the whole situation. I knew they’d do a Friday news dump that he was staying and it set me off on multiple levels. This board was on fire to get rid of Jack for years. I know one mega donor personally who has never attended a baseball game that felt the need to involve himself in the push for Jack’s removal solely because of the attitude on this board. To watch the consensus now be an overwhelming “meh” is a little hard to handle.
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All-In [43990]
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It's sad that you still harbor so much hatred about this.
May 28, 2021, 1:40 PM
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Time to move on!
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Legend [16900]
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Re: It's sad that you still harbor so much hatred about this.
May 28, 2021, 2:35 PM
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What has me legit angry is the spiraling stupidity that has people satisfied as the AD chokes the life out of our 2nd and 3rd biggest sports. Even you talk all the time about how they don’t support basketball. ALL. THE. TIME. Don’t walk it back now. What your pea brain can’t wrap itself around is that Brownell’s very employment is indicative of that lack of support. He’s not a martyr carrying the cross of Clemson basketball. He’s the coach lumbering on while no one gives a ####. An apathy that has now fully infected baseball - something that had been a constant for some of us as football and basketball ebbed and flowed.
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All-In [43990]
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I'm truly sorry that you are so upset by this.
May 28, 2021, 3:48 PM
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And I'm not being sarcastic or argumentative.
It is obvious that you love Clemson baseball and I know you are frustrated by what you feel is poor leadership.
It will be interesting to see if anything comes of the meeting DRad and Lee have next week.
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Oculus Spirit [76721]
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110%er [7929]
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Re: Congrats to everyone that pushed to have Jack fired
May 28, 2021, 1:40 PM
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DRad has officially told you that you can sleep in the bed you made and our baseball program can go #### itself as far as he is concerned. When I bet Lee wouldn’t last, I could not have imagined him being retained after a losing season. Women’s volleyball is now held to a higher standard than baseball at Clemson. Enjoy #######.
Always good to get a coot perspective. Can’t wait to see Oldhoe86 chime in
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CU Guru [1355]
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Re: Congrats to everyone that pushed to have Jack fired
May 28, 2021, 6:19 PM
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Leggett’s #### needed to be kicked to curb so you are welcome!!!!
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CU Guru [1355]
TigerPulse: 93%
Posts: 1428
Joined: 9/2/05
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Re: Congrats to everyone that pushed to have Jack fired
May 28, 2021, 6:19 PM
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Leggett’s #### needed to be kicked to curb so you are welcome!!!!
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Legend [16900]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 10763
Joined: 1/25/07
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Re: Congrats to everyone that pushed to have Jack fired
May 28, 2021, 6:44 PM
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So another vote for losing baseball - thanks 70%er. Clearly your ilk are carrying the day.
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All-In [37584]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 9300
Joined: 6/13/19
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Re: Congrats to everyone that pushed to have Jack fired
May 28, 2021, 9:32 PM
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Wow!!! Enough about Jack. He pulled a Danny Ford and thought he had more power than he actually had. His teams were under performing plain and simple, and it seems he wouldn't make changes. It was time for a change. It is time for a change now with Monte. His teams are under performing. If he stays I hope they win 50 games next year... unfortunately I expect more of the same.
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Orange Blooded [4854]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 9113
Joined: 1/15/08
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Re: Congrats to everyone that pushed to have Jack fired
May 28, 2021, 10:00 PM
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We had an idiot AD in the 90's on top of things that were off in the classroom, fwiw.
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Hall of Famer [21722]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 13534
Joined: 11/8/13
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It was time for Jack to go. Things were getting stale.
May 29, 2021, 10:40 AM
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Losing a regional at home to UConn like 15-1 or something like that was the final straw for me.
At the time Lee looked like a great hire. Almost the complete opposite of Jack. Young, kept the players loose, more modern in his approach to baseball.
It looked like the right hire when it transpired. Currently, I am NOT happy with Lee. I would like a new coach, but understand him getting one more year.
It’s easy to me. Get to the supers next year or pack up and leave. Bottom line.
I want Lee to succeed, but at this point I don’t expect it. The team’s fundamentals are awful and his “analytical” approach to the game hurts him more than helps him. Clemson Baseball should be way better than this, and we deserve a top-tier ACC program that can compete with any team across the nation. End of story.
~JKB
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Orange Blooded [3367]
TigerPulse: 84%
Posts: 4590
Joined: 7/31/18
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Re: Congrats to everyone that pushed to have Jack fired
May 29, 2021, 12:01 PM
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Hindsight is 50/50
Jack needed to go he should have retired, it was obvious that the program was going down hill.
He had way better talent than CML and his last 4 years were very disappointing.
It’s also obvious that CML is over his head and will be fired after next season.
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50
