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Letterman [297]
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Clemson head football coach rankings...
Aug 14, 2012, 10:56 AM
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...since Frank Howard, football really was a different game before that. Basing this on coaching/leading/recruiting abilities, not longevity at Clemson or including off the field stuff. What say you?
1. Danny Ford
2. Charlie Pell
3. Frank Howard
4. Dabo Swinney
5. Tommy Bowden
6. Ken Hatfield
7. Tommy West
8. Red Parker
9. Hootie Ingram
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All-TigerNet [12809]
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I would place Hatfield above Bowden....
Aug 14, 2012, 11:12 AM
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At least the man won an ACC Championship, I don't care who's players he used. A Top 10 finish with a blowout win vs. Illinois in what is now called The Outback Bowl seals it for me. He also had a better overall record than Bowden.
Since he followed Danny, I know most people will disagree.
Bowden was an above average recruiter, but he never had either leadership or coaching ability.
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Standout [327]
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I saw Hatfield is too high on this list
Aug 14, 2012, 11:23 AM
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I contend that I could take a team with 11 NFL players on the starting D (ranked #1 in teh nation) and win the #### Outback bowl. Ford said before he left that the 1990 team had more talent than any he had at Clemson. He considered it a National Championship type team and Hatfield crapped his pants with them.
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Orange Blooded [3788]
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And he lost to the White Meat. That's unforgivable.***
Aug 14, 2012, 11:30 AM
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All-TigerNet [12809]
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CU Medallion [67817]
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Re: In that case, you could say that Danny....you could
Aug 14, 2012, 11:34 AM
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sure say that about Paterno on at least one occasion.
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All-TigerNet [12809]
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Paterno....
Aug 14, 2012, 11:35 AM
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might still be crapping his pants.
Oops, I didn't just type that, did I?
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Orange Blooded [3788]
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I disagree and here's why
Aug 14, 2012, 11:29 AM
[ in reply to I would place Hatfield above Bowden.... ] |
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Larry Coker won a national championship at Miami in his first year and NOBODY thinks he's a good coach. Hatfield wasn't a fit for Clemson and left the program far worse than he found it.
Hatfield won an ACC Championship with a team that many considered to be more talented than the '81 team.
Tommy Bowden on the other hand left the program in much better shape than when he inherited it from Tommy West. He fought for facilities improvements and recruited talent to Clemson.
I also think you have to leave Dabo out of the ranking until his tenure here has ended, because he will be judged on his entire body of work, not just the first few years.
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All-TigerNet [12809]
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Tommy Bowden benefited from a cooperative administration
Aug 14, 2012, 11:34 AM
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during his tenure, and that is all.
If Tommy West had been given close to the same financial support Bowden received, I believe he would have been more successfull than TB.
Tommy Bowden came to Clemson at a time when the climate was right for investing in the program.
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CU Medallion [67817]
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The West hire was the most disappointed I ever was in CU
Aug 14, 2012, 11:44 AM
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we settled for a 4-7 guy with one year of HC experience when we clearly needed to get the program back on track and have someone to rally around. I liked TW but he was not ready and it was a weakly veiled attempt to appease the DF fanbase. JUst an ill timed hire for the school and the coach.
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Orange Blooded [4403]
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74Tiger
Aug 14, 2012, 11:48 AM
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from your posts i can tell that we're cut from the same cloth......great minds think alike...LOL....i couldn't agree with you more man.
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Orange Blooded [3788]
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Yep
Aug 14, 2012, 11:53 AM
[ in reply to The West hire was the most disappointed I ever was in CU ] |
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It was an attempt to bring a Danny Ford guy. I still believe and will always believe that if they had promoted Chuck Reedy instead of letting him go to Baylor and bringing in Hatfield, the continuity would've prevented a lot of our decline in the '90s.
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Orange Blooded [4403]
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agree totally
Aug 14, 2012, 12:01 PM
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i always thought the Hatfield hire was a "clean up" hire by the administration....let's bring in a guy who is a squeaky clean image guy who's had some success.....he'll look the part, act the part and not embarass us, etc...the problem was that at Clemson we may say that we want a clean image guy but deep down we love the Frank Howards and Danny's of the world because they raise some hell, their teams play hard as hell and they have a big dose of "i don't give a #### what anyone thinks, we're Clemson" in them. I've thought for years and years that true Clemson fans want their coach to have some SOB in him....not in a malicious way or a cheating way but in a competitive sort of way. That's exactly why i love Dabo. He's a good man, runs a clean ship overall but Dabo wants to beat your ### every single time he takes the field. I couldn't stand TB because he reminded me of Hatfield in a lot of ways....a lot of talent but teams had questionable heart, a lack of fire and iffy leadership. I personally don't care about a man's religious views, etc., what i care about is discipline, they go to class, they carry themselves with class and they hit you in the teeth on saturday's...most importantly they view wearing the Paw on their helmet as if it's an honor. I think Dabo is getting us where we need to go and as good of a man as he is, he wants to drill folks every saturday. I like that a LOT.
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110%er [6937]
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Re: TB was okay. He was satisfied to be in what I would
Aug 14, 2012, 12:38 PM
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call that B- classification. The jury is still out on Dabo. For the most part, I like what he is doing. He has got to beat South Carolina or his butt will soon be history.
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Orange Blooded [4403]
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i can't help but think
Aug 14, 2012, 12:41 PM
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that that is very, very high on his priority list....i hope it is because my fun meter is pegged out with the Chickens.
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Amateur [37]
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Re: The West hire was the most disappointed I ever was in CU
Aug 14, 2012, 12:00 PM
[ in reply to The West hire was the most disappointed I ever was in CU ] |
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BINGO...
Stated well..
And the Hatfield hire was a close #2.
Pre-Season #3 in the country, two years later 5-6 record... OK... I have to get over it... It still upsets me...
Hopefully we are back on track 20 years later with Dabo!!
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All-TigerNet [12809]
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Rock Defender [53]
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110%er [8008]
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And yet Dabo has been WILDLY successful compared to West.
Aug 14, 2012, 3:01 PM
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You really need to let go of that Dabo hate. It will eat you up.
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CU Medallion [67817]
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Re: Clemson head football coach rankings...
Aug 14, 2012, 11:15 AM
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generally accurate. Parker was better than West and no one was worse than Hootie. He was A complete dud in very respect
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Hall of Famer [22711]
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Impressive - 9 HCs since 1940... average 8 yrs per HC***
Aug 14, 2012, 11:29 AM
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All-In [47768]
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Yet the media proclaims our coaches to be
Aug 14, 2012, 11:34 AM
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On the hot seat every freaking year and have been doing so since Ford left. Typical stupid media BS.
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Orange Blooded [3788]
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Rock Defender [53]
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Still too long for most of them!!!! ;-)***
Aug 14, 2012, 2:57 PM
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Rock Defender [53]
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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Re: Wrong. It just mean we don't really strive to be great!!***
Aug 14, 2012, 3:06 PM
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That is the dumbest comment you have ever made and that is saying something. Dabo is striving to be great? Crump take out the trash for goodness sake
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Legend [19197]
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Frank Howard would be 2. He is a Hall of Fame coach.***
Aug 14, 2012, 11:45 AM
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All-In [25393]
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I agree on the first three; believe that the final verdict
Aug 14, 2012, 11:52 AM
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on Coach Swinney's tenure is out, although I like him personally and hope he's on the right course; omit the last three...and that leaves Hatfield and Bowden. It would have been difficult to hire anyone to replace Ford, and although Hatfield was a good, decent man, I simply believe Robinson made a colossal mistake with his hiring. What we needed was a tough-minded, tough-talking SOB to enter the program, take it by the b...s and let everyone know that he was the new Sheriff in town and then proceed to kick a$$ and take names on the field. Hatfield came across as too nice and too passive, and while he was a good coach, he wasn't a great coach. Bowden made great contributions to the program, but I felt he simply wasn't prepared for a lengthy career at Clemson coaching with the big boys, so to speak.
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Legend [16058]
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Hootie and Red shouldn't even...
Aug 14, 2012, 11:54 AM
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be listed.
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Amateur [37]
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Re: Clemson head football coach rankings...
Aug 14, 2012, 12:02 PM
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Can't say that I would put someone that is responsible for getting us on probation at #2, but yes, granted, the cheating did yield players and results later... Raised the bar so to speak....
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CU Guru [1446]
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Re: Clemson head football coach rankings...
Aug 14, 2012, 12:05 PM
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"John Heisman coached the Tigers to their first undefeated season (6–0) in 1900.[5] Heisman stayed only four years at Clemson, where he compiled a record of 19–3–2, an .833 percentage, the best in Clemson football history." Wikipedia
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All-In [25393]
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You're correct....I assumed PalmettoTigerFan was
Aug 14, 2012, 12:20 PM
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referring to the staff from Howard on, which is probably what everyone else thought.
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Orange Blooded [3788]
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Read the OP
Aug 14, 2012, 12:20 PM
[ in reply to Re: Clemson head football coach rankings... ] |
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This discussion is about post-Frank Howard Coaches. We all know that John Heisman and Jess Neely were great coaches in their day.
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Letterman [297]
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Hall of Famer [24753]
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Heisman?***
Aug 14, 2012, 12:33 PM
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Fan [85]
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Frank at #2
Aug 14, 2012, 12:48 PM
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Red at#3. It's way to early for the rest to be judged'
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