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All-In [43992]
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All-In [27363]
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Re: Clemson extended Brownell's contract today.
Apr 19, 2017, 8:23 PM
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Maybe that will be enough to get Z to be a Tiger. How big would that be???
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All-In [43992]
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It would be huge.***
Apr 19, 2017, 9:03 PM
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1st Rounder [648]
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Re: Clemson extended Brownell's contract today.
Apr 19, 2017, 10:48 PM
[ in reply to Re: Clemson extended Brownell's contract today. ] |
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You are Zion Williamson. Your goal is to get to the NBA as fast as possible and need maximum exposure in an offense which showcases your skill set. It's easy to see why Kentucky is in this thing. They are a one and done school. UNC is the national champion and showcases talent. Duke is a national program that sends kids quick to the pros. What can Brownell offer Williamson that makes us more attractive than the national powers? We can't make the NCAA tournament. Our offense changes often. We have put two kids in the NBA in seven years. Throw out the graduation incentive because Williamson is one and done. A big fat NBA check beats community service in college. Smith is not that great of a recruiter. I hope we get him by selling him on getting him to the pros. Don't try selling those off the court core standards.
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Orange Blooded [4139]
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1st Rounder [648]
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Re: Not Happening!
Apr 20, 2017, 9:47 AM
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My point exactly! What do we have to offer these really good players?
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All-In [38422]
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Re: Clemson extended Brownell's contract today.
Apr 19, 2017, 8:27 PM
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I hope you mean they printed out the old one on longer paper .
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Legend [16226]
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Addendums add extra pages. So there's that.
Apr 19, 2017, 8:35 PM
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No need to add handcuffs at this point. Gotta go full Brownell while we got 'im.
Go Tigers.
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1st Rounder [640]
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you never go "full Brownell"***
Apr 20, 2017, 9:41 AM
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110%er [8008]
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This is only good if they eliminated the Buy Out.***
Apr 19, 2017, 8:29 PM
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Orange Blooded [2845]
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Buyout is reduced according to article:
Apr 19, 2017, 8:41 PM
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Brownell's buyout without mitigation is now $1.7 million if he is released before April 30 of 2018. That number drops to $850,000 if he is released before April 30 of 2019 and $425,000 if he is released before April 30 of 2020.
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Orange Blooded [4098]
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Re: Buyout is reduced according to article:
Apr 19, 2017, 9:34 PM
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if the buyout is more than 1$$ it is 2 much
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CU Medallion [64517]
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Legend [16900]
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ugh.***
Apr 19, 2017, 8:44 PM
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All-In [43992]
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You would rather have a lame duck coach
Apr 19, 2017, 9:06 PM
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who will have his three year contract used against him on the recruiting trail and in hiring an assistant coach?
Let me guess: you would be one of those people who would STILL complain in such a scenario, and criticize Brownell for not hiring a good enough assistant and not recruiting well enough.
Right?
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Legend [16900]
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Re: You would rather have a lame duck coach
Apr 19, 2017, 9:31 PM
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He still is a lame duck coach. He needs to go. There is no value in any of this and no recruit is gonna fall for this fake vote of confidence. Are you the kind of fan that, if he has a bizarro good year next season, suddenly thinks he'd merit a real extension? He is not a good coach and we have a substantial body of work to judge from.
Message was edited by: viztiz®
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1st Rounder [648]
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Re: You would rather have a lame duck coach
Apr 19, 2017, 9:45 PM
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I read the article on the other site too. Any smart recruit will see through all the smoke and realize that Brownell did not get a huge vote of confidence. Those reduced buyouts will make it easier to make a change in one to two years if the win loss record stays the same.
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Legend [16900]
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Re: You would rather have a lame duck coach
Apr 19, 2017, 9:54 PM
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The restructure appears designed to basically guarantee him the same compensation as the previous contract while simply pretending to add a 4th season. So the AD is caving to the notion that there has to be 4 or more years on the contract. Which means that will be right back here next year. If the year is bad we finally move on saving no real money in the process. If he has a decent year we give a more serious extension to a coach who absolutely does not merit it. It is a lose / lose situation. It's not even a zero sum game.
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1st Rounder [648]
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Re: You would rather have a lame duck coach
Apr 19, 2017, 10:17 PM
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Rival coaches and key recruits will see through the so called extension.
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110%er [7718]
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Legend [16900]
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Re: You would rather have a lame duck coach
Apr 20, 2017, 7:16 AM
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There's the guy who just can't help come to Brownell's defense.
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All-TigerNet [14451]
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Re: You would rather have a lame duck coach
Apr 20, 2017, 7:18 AM
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no one has to come to his defense. some people wanted change, me included, but guess what, he is our coach and i will pull for him until he is not here anymore. what is so hard about that the all powerful viz.
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Legend [16900]
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Re: You would rather have a lame duck coach
Apr 20, 2017, 7:24 AM
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I was speaking directly to ClemAlum07 who most certainly came to his defense by challenging the validity of my comments. And, what does anything your saying have to do with anything I'm saying? I'll pull for Clemson basketball but I'm not so intellectually challenged as to believe that anything that happens next season changes the fact this coach has a proven body of work and it isn't good.
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110%er [7718]
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Re: You would rather have a lame duck coach
Apr 20, 2017, 8:24 AM
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lol in no way shape or form did I defend Brownell there. I defended the decision and reasoning behind the contract extension.
Once again you are unable to stick with the facts.
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110%er [7718]
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Re: You would rather have a lame duck coach
Apr 20, 2017, 8:23 AM
[ in reply to Re: You would rather have a lame duck coach ] |
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TIL me saying over and over again I wanted a change is coming to his defense.
Viztiz you just arent very bright.
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Walk-On [145]
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Re: Clemson extended Brownell's contract today.
Apr 19, 2017, 8:49 PM
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All-In [25888]
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Re: Clemson extended Brownell's contract today.
Apr 19, 2017, 9:05 PM
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It would take more than Smith I'm afraid.
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Orange Blooded [2457]
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Re: Clemson extended Brownell's contract today.
Apr 19, 2017, 9:13 PM
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He should not be here anymore. However, since he is lowering the buyout and giving him a 4th year was crucial. Hopefully this frees up the cash for a replacement and gives DRad a whole year to line one up since he was caught off guard for some reason this year.
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Orange Blooded [4098]
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Re: Clemson extended Brownell's contract today.
Apr 19, 2017, 9:31 PM
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more WASTED $$$$ on a "coach" that can`t coach!! our admin is just a bunch of idiots
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All-TigerNet [10427]
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I've got a feeling
Apr 19, 2017, 9:32 PM
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This will be very popular on T-Net.
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CU Medallion [58376]
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Here's the bottom line and all that matters . . .
Apr 19, 2017, 10:23 PM
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They slashed the buyout. That's all this is.
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Legend [19567]
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It's the right move in both the short and long term
Apr 19, 2017, 10:32 PM
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since we made the decision to retain him. The fourth year has to be there for any chance to recruit, and the buyout needed to drop in case we're meh again.
Just common sense since he is our coach for next year at least.
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CU Medallion [58376]
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Ed Zachary. They HAD to give him an extension, for
Apr 19, 2017, 11:19 PM
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recruiting, thus the for the sake of the program, and perhaps to give him a fair shot. It would have been shocking had they not done that. The takeaway from this, as I see it, is that with the significant reduction of the buyout, it's very clear now that next season will be a do-or-die one for Brownell.
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Orange Blooded [4550]
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Re: Ed Zachary. They HAD to give him an extension, for
Apr 19, 2017, 11:33 PM
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Best basketball news I've heard in awhile.
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Legend [19567]
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Half the people whining about this in this thread
Apr 19, 2017, 11:49 PM
[ in reply to Ed Zachary. They HAD to give him an extension, for ] |
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agreed if Brad was retained he would get the fourth year. We've positioned ourselves to move on if we tank next year, and also to move forward with a chance to sign a recruiting class if we surprise next year. What exactly is there to complain about in that?
It seems people forget, or simply intentionally ignore the fact that Brad could sign a good class next November and the recruits still have some peace of mind even if he's canned. If a coach leaves recruits are allowed out if their LOI if the desire so. So why not set him up for as good a class he can sign in the event we come out and surprise next year and he stays?
Whiners gonna whine though
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Legend [16900]
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Re: Half the people whining about this in this thread
Apr 20, 2017, 7:21 AM
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Because we already know, empirically, that he is a bad basketball coach. Every bit of this is an exercise in futility that is compounding long term negative ramnifications for the Clemson basketball program.
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Orange Blooded [4550]
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This is a win/win for everyone
Apr 20, 2017, 7:35 AM
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People that believe Brownell is right guy get their extra years on paper for him to recruit. Also lowering the buyout increases the likelihood of moving in a different direction if he flops. Win/win.
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Legend [19567]
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What exactly are the long term ramifications?
Apr 20, 2017, 7:56 AM
[ in reply to Re: Half the people whining about this in this thread ] |
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We've positioned ourselves if he manages to win, and if the team tanks. Once the decision was made to retain him, this was exactly what needed to happen
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110%er [7718]
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Re: What exactly are the long term ramifications?
Apr 20, 2017, 8:25 AM
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Exactly....
He now has a lower buyout...
Only an idiot like Viztiz could think this is a bad thing.
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Legend [16900]
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Re: What exactly are the long term ramifications?
Apr 20, 2017, 8:40 AM
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It would would have cost us $3 million to fire him. We'll now spend $3.5 million to keep him for a year and fire him in March. $3.5 million > $3 million. The only cost savings is a year's salary for the next coach (minus the $500,000) while we pay Brad to strangle whatever life is left out of the program.
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110%er [7718]
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Re: What exactly are the long term ramifications?
Apr 20, 2017, 9:00 AM
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Oh man that is some special "math"
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Legend [16900]
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Re: What exactly are the long term ramifications?
Apr 20, 2017, 9:05 AM
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It is the actual math, but you don't play well with reality.
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110%er [7718]
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Re: What exactly are the long term ramifications?
Apr 20, 2017, 9:12 AM
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lol says the guy who has accused me above of things I have not done and for some reason cant see the REALITY that Brownell will be back next year.
Sorry reality doesn't match your delusions.
Lets do the actual Math...
If he were fired this year it would have costs Clemson 5-6 Million. Buyout plus Salary of new coach.
If he is fired next year it will cost Clemson 4-5 Million. Buyout plus Salary of new coach. That is only possible with the new contract extension that lowered his buy out.
Once again please explain how this contract extension was a bad deal for Clemson.
I have stated NUMEROUS times (which you seem to be unable to grasp) that this past year was NCAAT or bust for me. i wanted a change but guess what that change isnt going to happen. Some of us are being adults and can realize that and see that this extension is the best thing that could have happened for next year. It lowers his buyout buy a good bit for next year.
Those are the facts. That is the reality.
Only in your head is 3 Million < 1.7 Million.
Message was edited by: Clemalum07®
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Oculus Spirit [96799]
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Maybe we should consult our resident math guru
Apr 20, 2017, 9:47 AM
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CM Shack
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1st Rounder [648]
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Re: Ed Zachary. They HAD to give him an extension, for
Apr 20, 2017, 7:38 AM
[ in reply to Ed Zachary. They HAD to give him an extension, for ] |
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I agree with you. The fourth year was added because of recruiting. The reduced buyout gives me hope that serious pressure was put on Brownell to win big next year or be gone. Honestly, won't rival coaches show this fact to recruits? These kids are well aware of coaches on the hot seat. Here's a hypothetical for next year. Brownell gets a backup center to transfer into the program. He hires another assistant coach. Will a good recruiter risk coming to Clemson knowing the above facts? Let's say our record stays about the same and we finish maybe 10th in the ACC. Another NIT bid! Is that enough to keep him for another year? I'm only going by what Drad said but not making the NCAA is not a core requirement at Clemson. It's about graduation rates and being good people. Was Drad spinning the facts and really does believe that winning is more important? We will see.
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Legend [19567]
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A recruit can sign with us in November
Apr 20, 2017, 8:08 AM
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then if Brad is gone have the option to go elsewhere. The point is we want the best recruiting class possible in November, and this allows for that. And because DRad didn't outright say make the tourney or else, does not mean that not an expectation. The drastically dropped buyout shows they are positioning to move on should things flop. You don't telegraph things like that, they are understood behind the scenes. Ultimatum's don't help recruiting, and that's what this is about right now.
Let Brad sign the best class he can. If we win it positions him better for sustaining things. If not, if a new coach comes on he may be able to keep some he wants. The recruits can move on if they desire to.
This is 100% the right moves all around.
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1st Rounder [648]
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Re: A recruit can sign with us in November
Apr 20, 2017, 8:23 AM
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That's what I hope. Drad said one thing in public but put real pressure on in private. If his words are true in the presser, this is a dream job for a basketball coach. No pressure to win! I hope that's not true. Those young freshmen better be ready to play ACC basketball. Their coaches future rides on it.
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Legend [19567]
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Public ultimatum's are not how you do business
Apr 20, 2017, 8:53 AM
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not if you want to succeed. While Brad has not succeeded on the court, he's done everything else you can pretty much ask. You show him respect, and if you move on, that speaks volumes to a new coach who may consider the job. Two changes have been made, pretty big ones. The buyout dropped by almost half and we'll have a new assistant coach.
The biggest adjustment however is some changes to Brad's on court coaching style and tendencies. He's said some of the right things saying he needs to adjust, we'll see if he does.
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110%er [7718]
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Re: Public ultimatum's are not how you do business
Apr 20, 2017, 8:58 AM
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Chicken Michelle is another poster who is not very bright...
At least Viztiz IS a Clemson fan. Michelle is not.
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Legend [16900]
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Re: Public ultimatum's are not how you do business
Apr 20, 2017, 9:04 AM
[ in reply to Public ultimatum's are not how you do business ] |
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Virtually all successful business people answer to public ultimatum. It's the nature of capitalism. If DRad thinks Brad is the future and was a daring brilliant anti-public sentiment business person as you seem to be positing then he would give Brad a real extension and sell us on the value. This is a lame half measure. I don't really care (about this extension) - because we're obviously stuck with Brad for yet another year and it is essentially a cost neutral move - but pretending this is anything but delaying the inevitable is ridiculous.
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Legend [19567]
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Actually they don't. Things are handled behind
Apr 20, 2017, 9:22 AM
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closed doors. Things are negotiated. Public ultimatums, especially for coaches, very rarely work. See Jack Leggett.
When Brad was retained I too felt we were delaying the inevitable. I'm still not very optimistic for next season, but we'll see. Brad's the coach and I hope he turns it around. If he doesn't, we're well positioned to move on.
While people are pretty much mocking the off court accomplishments, is there any Clemson fan who doesn't want a clean program, players graduating and active in the community, and a basketball staff who is well integrated and liked throughout the AD, including by other programs?
IMO what bought Brad the extra year was that he was the driving force in the new facilities. He worked his tail off politicking and raising money to see it through. DRad thought he deserved one more year with them due to this, again, IMO. While I disagreed, I do appreciate that and think that sort of loyalty is what makes Clemson special. If what Brad leaves as a legacy is the new facilities then we need to be thankful to him for that, as they are top notch.
All that said, this has to be a make or break year. And only a surprise Zion Williamson signing may change that if things go south. Even with that I'm not sure I'd keep him if we flail away next year.
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Legend [19567]
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And I'd add to that
Apr 20, 2017, 9:26 AM
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if Brad can't turn it around, if he's interested in a break from coaching after this, I'd love to see him move in to administration. He showed real talent for that side of things in the facility drive and I think everyone agrees he's likable, well respected, and a fine representative of the university
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Orange Blooded [2939]
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Leggett has to be looking at DRad with his hands in the air exclaiming "What the hell?"
Apr 20, 2017, 9:24 AM
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I'm glad the decision regarding Jack was made but it seems a little unfair another coach who has way underperformed in comparison continues to coach here.
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1st Rounder [648]
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Re: Leggett has to be looking at DRad with his hands in the air exclaiming "What the hell?"
Apr 20, 2017, 9:46 AM
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One difference! Is it true that Leggett refused to get rid of an assistant coach even if if it meant his job? Drads decision to keep Brownell is a decision we fans are going to have to accept even if we disagree. If the won loss record is the same next March , I don't want to hear any excuses from his fan club .
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Legend [19567]
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I don't think you could count many as a fan club
Apr 20, 2017, 10:15 AM
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right now. But most have moved on accepting that he is our coach next year. Just like this year, if things don't improve on the court, most will be for moving on, again
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1st Rounder [640]
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Gross***
Apr 20, 2017, 9:39 AM
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Orange Blooded [2519]
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I'm tired of complaining about Brownell
Apr 20, 2017, 10:13 AM
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We should hire someone else to suck so we can complain about him.
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Orange Blooded [3945]
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Re: Clemson extended Brownell's contract today.
Apr 20, 2017, 10:19 AM
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Replies: 57
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