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All-TigerNet [12233]
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CU Guru [1485]
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so for the record what would you do...
Mar 13, 2022, 7:47 AM
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next step is to bring US and Nato planes and soldiers into Ukraine and start war with Russia.
Then go defend Taiwan so that we can go to war against both Russia and China at the same time.
Sounds smart. Let's do it.
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All-TigerNet [11624]
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Pretty sure we could stop Russia with a dozen A-10s
Mar 13, 2022, 8:50 AM
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They appear to be completely untrained and unorganized. The footage of the reaction to attacks on Russian convoys looks more like some backyard militia is trying to invade Ukraine, not 'super power' Russia.
The problem is that would like cause Putin to start lobbing nukes. And then the world ends...
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Letterman [257]
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But Russia had tough-looking army commercials!***
Mar 13, 2022, 9:02 AM
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All-TigerNet [12233]
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Re: so for the record what would you do...
Mar 13, 2022, 11:14 AM
[ in reply to so for the record what would you do... ] |
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next step is to bring US and Nato planes and soldiers into Ukraine and start war with Russia.
Then go defend Taiwan so that we can go to war against both Russia and China at the same time.
Sounds smart. Let's do it.
Oh ye of little faith...
1. Get the Polish MiGs to Ukraine - have the Ukrainian pilots come and pick em up and fly them to Ukrainian air fields to join the rest of their fleet. Back fill Poland with some of our older F-16's of which we have plenty. Putin is NOT going to launch a nuke into NATO or the USA and start a nuclear showdown (which he will lose) over a 28 MiG aircraft being added to the arsenal of MiGs that are already resident in Ukraine.
2. Provide Predator UAV's to Ukraine. We are retiring the Predator's anyway and Ukraine has shown that they know how to use attack drones as they have made good use of the Turkish made Bayraktar TB2 drones. The more attack UAV's Ukraine can get flying the better.
3. Keep supplying the Ukrainians with small arms, manpads, anti-tank weapons, food, medical supplies, and water. Kudos to Biden for not caving on this support (yet).
None of these actions require US "boots" on the ground. I have always said that Ukraine is a European fight and by the looks of it they don't need our boots on the ground anyway. There is plenty of fight in the Ukrainians - they just need the means to wage it and we need to give them help anyway we can overtly or covertly.
Now on to Taiwan. Taiwan produces 63% of all semiconductors in the world and accounts for 92% of all semiconductor production at process nodes less than 10nm (i.e. the high end semiconductors that power the most advanced technology). Darn near everything in the USA, from toaster ovens to our military hardware, rely on semiconductors that are ultimately produced in Taiwan. If the Chinese Communists were to gain control of the semiconductor industry they could literally dictate market conditions on so many products that they could crash economies should they choose to do so. That control is a direct threat to the USA's national interests and economic survival. Some folks may want to live in denial but keeping Taiwan from becoming a full fledged member of the CCP is a fight worth having.
The only way to take Taiwan out of the "significant US national interest" column is for there to be a tremendous shift in where semiconductors are produced. The US should be doing everything we can to shift semiconductor production back into North America but this will take time even if there is a willingness by the tech industry to do so.
By my estimation we have less than three years before China is going to make a move on Taiwan. I seriously doubt the worlds semiconductor production capability will change greatly in the next three years. If we want to avoid a showdown with China we had better start executing an all hands deterrent plan. A good start is to arm Taiwan's defenses to the teeth - especially with air defense and area denial defenses (things that can turn amphibious landings into graveyards). Secondly China must clearly understand, with no ambiguity, that an invasion of Taiwan will result in a WAR with the USA. The Biden administration must fully convince the CCP that such a war is not in their best interests.
I wish I had faith in the Biden and his folks to deliver that kind of message but unfortunately the current administration projects nothing but weakness. The Afghanistan withdrawal debacle still looms large with the worlds tyrants. Deterrence works best from a position of strength and right now we look like a paper tiger to many of the despots. Heck even Iran feels emboldened and launched some 12 missiles into our consulate in Iraq last night. What's worse is that Iran took this step even while the US is attempting to negotiate a "nuclear deal" with them. Show's just how much the Iranians respect/fear the US. They apparently believe the Biden administration wants this Iran deal so bad that they can do just about anything and still have the Biden administration kiss their behinds.
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Hall of Famer [20518]
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Re: so for the record what would you do...
Mar 13, 2022, 11:25 AM
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...and now we're completely in agreement again.
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CU Guru [1485]
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Re: so for the record what would you do...
Mar 13, 2022, 5:39 PM
[ in reply to Re: so for the record what would you do... ] |
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Regarding the Ukraine points I agree, but understand the migs would be considered as an act of war from the country they come from. Thus Russia would consider that war with Poland (therefore us). Would Russia then attack the originating air base?
I do think there is a ton of stuff the US is sending to Ukraine that none of us are aware of. That has to include drones among other things that are being kept out of the media
Your gamble would be calling Russia’s bluff on attacking the air base that the migs come from. Regardless the migs would basically bring nato into the war.
Regarding Taiwan, China would consider it a huge escalation by arming Taiwan. China and the US are economically interdependent. Thus raises prices would indirectly hurt China. Without US demand China would loose a bunch of global leverage. China runs on our demand.
I think it’s a huge mistake to claim that the us is acting weak with our current commitments. People say act tougher but they don’t truly understand what that means in terms of the consequences that could create. The next step beyond what we are doing is war.
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Hall of Famer [20518]
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Re: so for the record what would you do...
Mar 14, 2022, 8:57 AM
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I disagree with some of that but I appreciate the cogent and well-articulated position. We do enough of that we get an actual discussion going, with points and counter-points and the derps who are just here to pick fights sidelined to the cheap seats like they should be.
Imagine that!
I think we care too much what China thinks. Personally I would give them a great big "sukk it" over Taiwan, arm the Taiwanese to the teeth, and dare China to do something about it. They won't. China runs on trade and the last thing they wanna do is ruin their own brand, especially if it's going to be a long, protracted, expensive, potentially unsuccessful venture.
It's not just that the world will hate them. It's also that they could well lose. Watching Vlad get stuck in it in Ukraine while the world hates on him has gotta be looming large in Xi's mind right now.
IMHO, you do everything you can do to continue to Mexican standoff in the South China Sea, make it so it's so expensive they can't pursue it, and eventually that Cold War, like all Cold Wars, will wind down when the cost of sustaining it becomes too much for the Chinese.
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110%er [7068]
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Re: so for the record what would you do...
Mar 14, 2022, 11:21 AM
[ in reply to Re: so for the record what would you do... ] |
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Perhaps not well known, but the USA is breaking its neck to hurry up with re-establishing a semi-conductor presence here at home.
This goes from all aspects of the supply chain, from rare earth minerals to equipment which is used to make various 'wafer' substrates (not just silicon wafers), chemical processing additives (which we've already got a pretty good domestic presence), and semi-conductor processing / manufacturing equipment.
I can't speak to when this started, other than having an impression that the initiative is somewhere between 4 to 8 years in the making.
The good news (and I'm no fan of Joe Biden) is that this initiative is still on a high speed track. This gives me a glimmer of hope for true 'bipartisan' spirit in the USA.
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Heisman Winner [119569]
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At least we don’t have giant posters of Brandon on every
Mar 13, 2022, 8:38 AM
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Gubmint building ??
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Hall of Famer [20518]
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Re: China learning from Russia
Mar 13, 2022, 9:03 AM
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And here's where we completely disagree again.
This isn't a battle between personalities and it's not about Joe Biden. This is about a new Axis that's trying to upset the Western rules-based order - that has ourselves as the head of it - in favor of pure authoritarianism. It's been building for awhile. Putin wants to rebuild the Soviet Union. Xi wants to make China the center of the world and dominate it through trade, technology, and by making the renmimbi the world's reserve currency. (Which would incidentally destroy the dollar.)
Any Western leader who is perceived as reasonable and isn't crazy (or in the pocket of Russian oligarchs like Trump was, what with that $1.3-billion-dollar personally-guaranteed debt he owed them), was going to be challenged. Times change, tides change...and bad guys arise and try to upend the world order, and that's just how it goes.
Blaming a leader who's actually doing pretty durn good rallying the world order at the moment those bad guys push you on the playing field strikes me as...unproductive, for a career military guy. Here's where a constant diet of Fox News is really bad, because they operate by a single rule: no matter what Biden does, he's wrong. Fox isn't a "conservative" news platform, it's just virulently anti-Democrat...poisonously so. And because we happen to have a Democratic president in office we really need to get behind because the bad guys are coming, Fox has become literally anti-democratic (little "d") as well because they're now providing aid and comfort to the enemy.
Sorry. The country is bigger than party. And Biden's what we got right now and as much as he botched Afghanistan he's doing a good job here, IMHO.
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Legend [18003]
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Hall of Famer [20518]
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Re: Case in point re: "aid and comfort to enemy"
Mar 13, 2022, 3:41 PM
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Yup. I regard Tucker as an outright traitor. He's certainly a traitor to the ideals America espouses.
The dude is another aspiring oligarch, heir to the Swanson Family Foods fortune. Mind, there's nothing wrong with being rich...what is wrong is that would-be oligarchs like Tucker game the system so no one else can be, and no one has the power to ever take what they have. I loathe people who climb the ladder of success (or more frequently, inherit their wealth from someone who did), and then saw the rungs off the ladder beneath them so no one else can climb it behind them.
Tucker likes Putin because deep down Tucker, like Rupert Murdoch, is an oligarch at heart and doesn't believe in democracy. It's messy and inconvenient and puts the power in the hands of the peasants in the village. He's even said so, in a radio segment he probably wishes he could take back.
https://theintercept.com/2019/03/12/tucker-carlson-tapes-rupert-murdoch/
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CU Guru [1515]
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Re: Case in point re: "aid and comfort to enemy"
Mar 13, 2022, 3:59 PM
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Yep, I despise when Tucker rails on the "elites", when it's clear to everyone with eyes and ears that Mr. Private School in Switzerland and Trinity College was the biggest silver spoon kid around. As far as his "aid and comfort to enemy", I thought the first 4 minutes or so this was telling:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqwfbKrU3Eo
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Rock Defender [53]
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110%er [7068]
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Re: Case in point re: "aid and comfort to enemy"
Mar 14, 2022, 11:53 PM
[ in reply to Re: Case in point re: "aid and comfort to enemy" ] |
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FYI and Everyone's "I" ... Rupert Murdoch supported Michael Bloomberg as a candidate to oppose Donald Trump in the 2020 election.
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Heisman Winner [111339]
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Re: China learning from Russia
Mar 13, 2022, 9:08 AM
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I think the chinese are looking 30 years out, but will exploit any current situation to their advantage that they can. I also would believe that the chinese respect Biden a lot more than trump, let's set aside that he paints himself like a clown, but the word was out that all you had to do was lavish him in compliments and ge would practically suck your ####. I mean I imagine it took their Ministry of State Security about 90 secods to draw up a phycological profile on the guy because he can not keep his mouth shut and was a major loose cannon that threatened national security every time he spoke. Our foreign adversaries all loved him, we already know this. I mean the guy was throwing compliments at Rodrigo Duterte, Kim Jung, Putin, and every other dictator on Twitter. The man had zero foreign policy poker face, he put it all out there. You think that is what they respect?
Biden could be a talking potato, well that is kind of what he is, but I would imagine they would have more respect for that.
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Hall of Famer [20518]
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Re: China learning from Russia
Mar 13, 2022, 9:15 AM
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They may be closer than that, unfortunately. You'd still rather be us than them but they're rapidly closing the gap between our militaries and due to proximity they can spam the South China Sea with small surface combatants frigate-class and smaller, all packing missiles, and that geographical advantage helps them a ton. They're building those small ships at an awe-inspiring rate. They also (illegally) fortified a bunch of barrier islands and the US Navy thinks of them as immobile, unsinkable, aircraft carriers.
They still don't have much of what's called a "blue-water" Navy and can't project force around the globe nearly like we can...but in the South China Sea it's going to be all about missiles and they have a ton of them.
They also just doubled their yearly missile production. That tells you they're definitely thinking about making a move soon.
Hate to say it, but the new Axis is here.
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Heisman Winner [111339]
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i am sure they are just doing training exercises
Mar 13, 2022, 9:37 AM
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and sorry to change topics, but AMD is already kicking inte'ls butt, have you seen the specs on the new AMDs, made in china, not Taiwan. Intel may already be on their way out. AMD still has a good 20 dgrees Celsius headroom on their chips on top of this. they never get above 60 degrees, all of our Inel I9's run in the 90s, need liquid cooling, and are slower.
Here is a list of the fastest CPUs in order. The 5950x is a monster deal, I just got one at the office.
https://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html
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Hall of Famer [20518]
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Re: i am sure they are just doing training exercises
Mar 13, 2022, 9:51 AM
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Oof. Those benchmarks make me wince some. Shenzhen is putting out some amazing product these days. Silicon Valley needs to pick it up. Bigly.
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Heisman Winner [111339]
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Re: i am sure they are just doing training exercises
Mar 13, 2022, 12:22 PM
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yup, CPUs seemed stuck in the mud for the last 3-4 years, then boom AMD is killing it again. AMD is in Santa Clarita, just they manufacture in china, probably their own facility with local labor, I am too lazy to look things up today. Intel's design has heat problems. They could be done, IDK...
Message was edited by: Tigerbalm1®
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Legend [19883]
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Orange Blooded [2638]
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Typical fox bs
Mar 13, 2022, 9:12 AM
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With nothing more than a political agenda. Neither Ukraine nor Taiwan are members of NATO or US territory.
But let’s go ahead and get directly involved with both conflicts bc Fox News makes us look tough.
People love to spout BS and look all tough without understanding the consequences of going to war.
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Hall of Famer [20518]
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Re: Typical fox bs
Mar 13, 2022, 9:23 AM
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I would say tabby certainly understands the consequences of going to war, better than any of us. I just don't agree with him spouting Fox News crap right as the bad guys are challenging us.
We collectively can't afford to be divided right now, and Fox is the perpetual enemy of all things Democrat. When we've got a Democratic president, that's a genuine problem.
Fox is anti-Democrat far more than they're pro-America. Then again, Rupert Murdoch isn't American and isn't a fan of democracy, and really wants to make the world safe for oligarchy...because he is one.
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Orange Blooded [2638]
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Re: Typical fox bs
Mar 13, 2022, 10:14 AM
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I was referring to fox corespondents as the ones that have no clue about war.
I understand their job is to take opportunities to undermine Biden. But don’t spout BS about the US not looking tough.
I think we are trying to help Ukraine as much as possible without shedding our own blood. If that is called being weak then that’s a problem.
Taiwan is going to fall to china no matter what. It’s just a matter of time. Do we go to war with china shed blood over that? Of course not.
But don’t let intelligence get in the way of a Fox News agenda.
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110%er [7068]
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Re: Typical fox bs
Mar 15, 2022, 4:01 PM
[ in reply to Typical fox bs ] |
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You got that right TD Tigers … Fox News even bragged about that macho Donald Trump’s overthrow of Moammar Gaddafi, and then Fox News had the temerity to dismiss comments from Barak Obama which categorized the overthrow of Gaddafi as Trump’s biggest foreign policy mistake.
Oooops … my bad … I got that mixed up a little.
It wasn’t DJT that led to the overthrow of M.Gaddafi in 2011, it was Barak Obama and his Ghislaine Maxwell wanna-be Hillary Clinton that showed off their ‘macho’ selves by setting up the No Fly Zone and actively supporting an insurrection to kill Gaddafi. BHO and HRC showed that they could top G.W.Bush’s invasion of Iraq (WMD) … by gosh, macho leadership and war-mongering is no longer for the sole glory of the Republicans, I’ll tell you what!
Oh yeah, it wasn’t the “neocon” Fox News that was spouting this machismo ‘BHO strong’ garbage; it was one of the numerous Democrat party’s versions of Pravda … The Daily Beast (re: July 13, 2017 article) … which lauded BHO’s and HRC’s leading-from-their-behind accomplishment 5.5 years after toppling Gaddafi.
This “neocon” Fox News routine is getting a bit old and obsolete, and the perpetual “Orange Man Bad” routine is also past its shelf life.
APB for some new material.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/is-barack-obama-still-weak-after-toppling-muammar-gaddafis-regime
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Orange Blooded [2638]
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Typical fox bs
Mar 13, 2022, 9:12 AM
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With nothing more than a political agenda. Neither Ukraine nor Taiwan are members of NATO or US territory.
But let’s go ahead and get directly involved with both conflicts bc Fox News makes us look tough.
People love to spout BS and look all tough without understanding the consequences of going to war.
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Legend [17239]
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Western and US economic dependence has compromised capability…
Mar 13, 2022, 10:00 AM
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to respond. I would suggest policies (or lack of) from Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama and Trump have created this moment. Of course, Congress has also been slow and weak to act. In the spirit of unconstrained global capitalism, there has been an acceptance of trade with countries that don’t align with our best interests. National strength is interwoven with economies. Supply chains rely on low cost foreign producers. Economic performance is often defined by stock market trends. Americans are addicted to an environment defined by short term consequences.
Economic strength and a reduction in dependency will come at a price _ likely inflation, A realignment of trade partnerships and some regulatory constraints are likely required. Do Americans and our politicians have the capability to create a change?
IMO a reduction in economic dependencies will increase our National strength. Assigning responsibility to the existing POTUS kind of misses the mark.
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Heisman Winner [111339]
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agree we should sit this one out, not so much with Taiwan.
Mar 13, 2022, 4:39 PM
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There was also a good reason to intertwine our economies in that in creating a dependence upon one another, is that we tend to serve each others best interests. China is not without its problems, ecologically they have some major issues. India has major issue coming soon as well with mass migration. If Russia thinks it can isolate itself from Western Democracy and become another North Korea, then you could see a revolution and the ousting on Putin by his own people. And If this has done anything, it has strengthened NATO's sense of purpose and I think you will se more of a financial commitment for the EU countries when it comes to this, it will not just be America subsidizing "global peace" if we sit this one out as you say. If NATO countries increase their defense spending, it would be a boom for us. They have reason to now.
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All-In [42020]
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That's probably not an accurate read
Mar 15, 2022, 7:52 AM
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If anything, China is seeing how this war has mired Russia and how their economy is decimated from the sanctions. It's likely given them pause about the idea of invading Taiwan.
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