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Topic: Can someone please help me understand the endowment scholarships for baseball?
Replies: 37   Last Post: Apr 19, 2021, 2:03 PM by: Row86®
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Can someone please help me understand the endowment scholarships for baseball?

[1]
Posted: Apr 18, 2021, 10:26 PM
 

My understanding is that some schools with large endowments are funding “need based” scholarships for out of state star baseball players to essentially get a free ride to play baseball at a given school.

My understanding is that Clemson does not have the funding or the interest in doing this, thereby putting Clemson at a disadvantage in recruiting and fielding a competitive team.

If true, I’m having a hard time believing that some folks at Vanderbilt decided that success in college baseball is so important that they would devote hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not millions of dollars, to this endeavor.

I could understand that happening in football, or even basketball, but baseball?

Here is the current college baseball top 10. Is it happening at all of these schools?

1. Arkansas
2. Vanderbilt
3. Texas
4. Mississippi State
5. Tennessee
6. Mississippi
7. Louisville
8. Texas Tech
9. East Carolina
10. Notre Dame

Also, South Carolina is #11. Is it happening there too?

Forgive me for my skepticism, but I can’t imagine that many, if any, colleges have decided that success in baseball is so important that they are going to create scholarships for out of state baseball players to essentially give them in-state tuition if not free tuition, simply because they are good at baseball.

Is this happening in other sports too, such as soccer, lacrosse, etc.?

I just find all of this really hard to believe, so please help me understand. Thanks in advance.

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It is somewhat happening in tennis at places like Virginia

[1]
Posted: Apr 18, 2021, 11:20 PM
 

But in that case it’s only enough to make a couple schools very good. I don’t think it really hurts anyone adversely.

Seems to be in baseball the only examples are Virginia and Vanderbilt. Like wouldn’t it be hurting many schools if it was such a big deal? Not just Clemson.

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Re: Can someone please help me understand the endowment scholarships for baseball?


Posted: Apr 18, 2021, 11:26 PM
 

JK with the fact troll, ??

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Re: Can someone please help me understand the endowment scholarships for baseball?

[1]
Posted: Apr 18, 2021, 11:42 PM
 

Vandy is a special situation. They did not create a system of scholarships from endowments to enrich their baseball program. Corbin is just capitalizing on campus wide program to make Vandy affordable to all students.

At Vandy all tuition is directly correlated to the family income. This creates a stupid amount of depth at Vandy because a generic low socioeconomic player with 12th man talent normally has to settle for a smaller school like Winthrop or Coastal in order to get a piece of a scholarship, but in Tennessee, Vandy is an affordable option without the scholarship.

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^^^this^^^... but it only gets tuition down


Posted: Apr 19, 2021, 10:43 AM
 

Don't think it covers room and board.


I imagine you can cover that if you split your athletic scholarship 20 ways.

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Re: Can someone please help me understand the endowment scholarships for baseball?


Posted: Apr 18, 2021, 11:59 PM
 

They were saying the other morning on the radio that schools like Michigan and a couple others I cannot remember have capitalized on a scholarship only available for black baseball players from inner cities. Michigan, while in one of the worst spots in the country weather wise to play college baseball, has joined the ranks of the elite.

I have little doubt that the Clemson administration isn’t fully committed to winning baseball, however my issue is the things I see on the field aren’t necessarily the result of a lack of talent. Although I believe we’re barely middle of the road in terms of talent in the ACC, the lack progression by anyone on the team and horrible fundamental baseball are especially troublesome

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Re: Can someone please help me understand the endowment scholarships for baseball?

[2]
Posted: Apr 19, 2021, 12:14 AM
 

My understanding is Jack Leggett had a fund to help the baseball team with schollies but the board stopped the funding just a couple years before he retired. I understand that there was a big blow-up at some point where Terry Don had been in full support of fund but DRad did not go to bat for the fund.

That said, some of the last players that took advantage of this under Jack and were adopted by Lee (players like Beer), gave Lee that jump start for his first yr. As Jack's players moved on via graduation or MLB, Lee hasn't replaced with same caliber of players. Supposedly due to recruiting skills and player funding assistance.

If you look at our recruiting rankings today and last few yrs in comparison to 8-10yrs ago, we have fallen. But then look at Vandy recruiting rankings for the last 5 years, and they are off the charts better. That said, baseball is a developmental game hence all the levels of minor leagues, but Lee has lost all of Jack's players now, has 100% his recruits, many in Lee's system for 2-4yrs now, and the team is worse than i can ever remember since my college days in the late 80s.

Vandy's recruiting #'s in quantity and quality has been unbelievably goog

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Re: Can someone please help me understand the endowment scholarships for baseball?


Posted: Apr 19, 2021, 12:24 AM
 

ICAtiger is correct! I hear the same thing about Jacks Fund thing. They were even talking about that on the radio months back. He is also correct that DRad and Clements did away with it and wanted to invest more into the educational side of things I remember hearing. Not sure of any specifics there but definitely hope someone can post more info on this. It’s not right that baseball is only allowed 11 or so scholarships in the first place. That’s so terrible. Monte Lee hasn’t done the best job recruiting either when it comes to evaluation. He seems to recruit these stars that are going to be drafted high rounds and then when they decide to leap for the mlb he settles on a guy that’s Gardner Webb / Newberry college material. There’s so many things wrong with our current baseball team it can’t just be pointed in one direction or any one player or coach. It’s many of both

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Re: Can someone please help me understand the endowment scholarships for baseball?


Posted: Apr 19, 2021, 2:35 AM
 

Clemson athletics from the last numbers I heard, are now unbalanced on the scholarships given between men and women ( title 9), favoring women. Since they decided to drop Men’s track, I believe it’s even more lopsided.

So my question is, how is this not in violation of Title 9, and could they not just redirect that money to a academic fund to favor say black athletes in sports not traditionally heavy in black participation like baseball. Folks would be scared to push back if you used the minority scholarship opportunities as a cover and could get more baseball players on full scholarships .

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Re: Can someone please help me understand the endowment scholarships for baseball?

[2]
Posted: Apr 19, 2021, 5:59 AM
 

This should help you understand the baseball scholarship program that some schools use and Clemson stopped using:

https://www.greenvilleonline.com/story/news/2019/03/18/clemson-baseball-hurt-end-common-market-aid-coach-says/3139127002/


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You only wish you had an excuse like this to use for basketball.***

[1]
Posted: Apr 19, 2021, 6:54 AM
 



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Re: You only wish you had an excuse like this to use for basketball.***


Posted: Apr 19, 2021, 6:59 AM
 

He may. Undoubtedly , Clemson hoops only honors basketball scholarships for 1 year since that’s as long as most stay in the program

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Re: You only wish you had an excuse like this to use for basketball.***


Posted: Apr 19, 2021, 7:17 AM
 

Row86® said:




Why be a troll by polluting every thread with your idiocy?

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I don't need an excuse for our basketball program.


Posted: Apr 19, 2021, 11:04 AM
 

We finished in the top third of the conference and made the NCAA Tournament.

Baseball fans only wished our Clemson baseball team could have a season comparable to that. It's been a while.

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Re: I don't need an excuse for our basketball program.

[2]
Posted: Apr 19, 2021, 11:13 AM
 

Monte Lee has an ACC championship. I’ll hang up and listen.

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Bingo. And hosted regionals.***


Posted: Apr 19, 2021, 12:22 PM
 



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Yes, and that was 5 years ago.


Posted: Apr 19, 2021, 12:37 PM
 

As I said, it's been a while.

Right now, our baseball team has a losing overall record. When is the last time Clemson basketball had a losing overall record? I'll hang up and listen.

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: Yes, and that was 5 years ago.


Posted: Apr 19, 2021, 1:33 PM
 

Been awhile? We had a losing record on Feb 9, 2020 (the season you pretend we were gonna go to the tournament if not for Covid). Once again you are busted being completely FOS.

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This from a guy who is still hanging onto BrownL’s sweet 16 appearance.***


Posted: Apr 19, 2021, 2:03 PM
 



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Re: Can someone please help me understand the endowment scholarships for baseball?


Posted: Apr 19, 2021, 7:18 AM
 

The ironic part is that the men's cross-country team was comprised mostly of academic scholarships and grants not athletic scholarships ,needs no facility,can use their own clothes and shoes,only travelled to a few meets per season and we cancel it but we have the money for uniforms for other sports that pertain only to one or another societal issue not related to sports .Go figure.Does not make any sense to me financially speaking.

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Re: Can someone please help me understand the endowment scholarships for baseball?


Posted: Apr 19, 2021, 7:31 AM
 

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Topic: Can someone please help me understand the endowment scholarships for baseball?
Replies: 12 Last Post: Apr 19, 2021, 7:18 AM by: tigersugar


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Can someone please help me understand the endowment scholarships for baseball? [1]
Posted: Apr 18, 2021, 10:26 PM
Reply

My understanding is that some schools with large endowments are funding “need based” scholarships for out of state star baseball players to essentially get a free ride to play baseball at a given school.

My understanding is that Clemson does not have the funding or the interest in doing this, thereby putting Clemson at a disadvantage in recruiting and fielding a competitive team.

If true, I’m having a hard time believing that some folks at Vanderbilt decided that success in college baseball is so important that they would devote hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not millions of dollars, to this endeavor.

I could understand that happening in football, or even basketball, but baseball?

Here is the current college baseball top 10. Is it happening at all of these schools?

1. Arkansas
2. Vanderbilt
3. Texas
4. Mississippi State
5. Tennessee
6. Mississippi
7. Louisville
8. Texas Tech
9. East Carolina
10. Notre Dame

Also, South Carolina is #11. Is it happening there too?

Forgive me for my skepticism, but I can’t imagine that many, if any, colleges have decided that success in baseball is so important that they are going to create scholarships for out of state baseball players to essentially give them in-state tuition if not free tuition, simply because they are good at baseball.

Is this happening in other sports too, such as soccer, lacrosse, etc.?

I just find all of this really hard to believe, so please help me understand. Thanks in advance.


it is happening. some of those schools have large endowments they use while others use the academic common market to help with in state tuition. those struggles are real at clemson, along with having a very young team. if you want it to improve you need to b!tch about it to drad or a board member.

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Re: Can someone please help me understand the endowment scholarships for baseball?


Posted: Apr 19, 2021, 7:33 AM
 

i have emailed drad and a board member.

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Re: Can someone please help me understand the endowment scholarships for baseball?


Posted: Apr 19, 2021, 7:38 AM
 

Well out of state football players get a free ride, probably basketball too.

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Re: Can someone please help me understand the endowment scholarships for baseball?


Posted: Apr 19, 2021, 7:54 AM
 

uh of course they do. if you do not know what is happening in baseball please just bow out or either get informed.

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Re: Can someone please help me understand the endowment scholarships for baseball?


Posted: Apr 19, 2021, 8:06 AM
 

11.7 scholarships doesn’t go very far for a baseball roster. No idea how they decide the allotment but I have to think it’s not enough to provide a full scholarship to an out of state player. Any help from an academic endowment would certainly sweeten the chance to sign a talented player or two. As it is now, Clemson is competing for in state players with some good programs (minus Furman) that are probably less expensive than Clemson. Of course SC doesn’t have a talent pool like Texas, Florida, or Georgia.

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Re: Can someone please help me understand the endowment scholarships for baseball?


Posted: Apr 19, 2021, 9:52 AM
 

smillsap1 said:

11.7 scholarships doesn’t go very far for a baseball roster. No idea how they decide the allotment but I have to think it’s not enough to provide a full scholarship to an out of state player. Any help from an academic endowment would certainly sweeten the chance to sign a talented player or two. As it is now, Clemson is competing for in state players with some good programs (minus Furman) that are probably less expensive than Clemson. Of course SC doesn’t have a talent pool like Texas, Florida, or Georgia.



Both my daughters went to Furman. With their endowment they can match or beat anything Clemson can offer. $750MM against 3k students...

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Re: Can someone please help me understand the endowment scholarships for baseball?


Posted: Apr 19, 2021, 8:52 AM
 

Well I am informed ,once we bring social issues into the sports programs for equity and equality then we need to do the same for each sports program .If one sports program has something that another sports program does not that's not equity or equality.If one program has free rides then all should be afforded free rides.If one sports program uses athletic scholarships then all sports programs should have those too.Sports programs like cross-country and tennis use academic scholarships not athletic.If Clemson as a university are going to push social issues of equity and equality then they need to practice what they preach in the athletic dept. Just saying.

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Re: Can someone please help me understand the endowment scholarships for baseball?

[1]
Posted: Apr 19, 2021, 8:01 AM
 

One thing those 11 schools have in common- They suck in football with the exception of Notre Dame who has at least been to the CFP a couple of times.

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It is absolutely happening and has been for years.***


Posted: Apr 19, 2021, 8:09 AM
 



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Re: Can someone please help me understand the endowment scholarships for baseball?

[2]
Posted: Apr 19, 2021, 8:23 AM
 

JK,

Your takeaway from this thread is Clemson fans have plenty of time to complain and little time to understand the issues so their so go to is fire the coach.

Baseball is at a disadvantage but there is no getting around the fact that Monte has not held up his part of the deal. The common market situation is a big issue for out of state players as the cost is about $20K extra per year if they cant qualify for instate tuition. Arkansas and UofSC are members as you can see from this searchable database. Few out of state players would be willing to find an extra $20K to play at Clemson over other similar schools. Additionally the SC Gov has done a poor job of funding our colleges so we are 47th is support meaning Clemson and other schools. Note the website says Clemson is a member but I believe only at a graduate level.

http://home.sreb.org/acm/participating/institutionstates.aspx


The elite institutions like vandy and UVA has a big advantage due to their large endowments and system of need based tuition.

Ultimately we are not sucking because of these issues but they do make the hill a lot steeper to climb up.

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Why so negative?


Posted: Apr 19, 2021, 12:26 PM
 

What is “Monte’s part of the deal” and how can you say he hasn’t held it up?

Why not just support the baseball coach and his program?

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Re: Can someone please help me understand the endowment scholarships for baseball?

[2]
Posted: Apr 19, 2021, 9:58 AM
 

The endowments are not "baseball endowments".

The schools referenced have large endowments to help fund tuition for any students that meet the qualifications to receive aide.

Baseball, as a poorly funded scholarship sport with 11.7 for 35 roster spots, is taking advantage of any money they can find to help recruits get a cheaper entry to school.

Clemson does not have an endowment of this type. Schools that have one have an advantage because they can do anything from cut tuition in half to wiping it out completely for students of their choosing.

The common market money is a totally separate issue that deals with waving out of state tuition for certain students. This is also something for all students and not just baseball players.

Baseball teams in all participating states are taking advantage of this as well. As other posters have mentioned, Clemson opted out of this program a few years ago for undergraduate students.

The common market money can cut a recruit's owed tuition money in half at most schools with their in-state vs out of state tuition.




Short version:

Being well-endowed makes life easier.

Giving a local discount to out-of-towners can increase your chances of getting someone to travel to your location.

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Re: Can someone please help me understand the endowment scholarships for baseball?

[2]
Posted: Apr 19, 2021, 10:05 AM
 

because of the common market a pitcher from south carolina is going to miss st instead of clemson because he was offered a full ride from miss st and all clemson could do was 1/2 a scholarship. several years ago we lost a stud to vandy because of money. it is real and if people do not ##### about it things will never change. you can blame it on coaches, analytics or whatever you want but if we can not attract top line talent we are screwed.

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Re: Can someone please help me understand the endowment scholarships for baseball?


Posted: Apr 19, 2021, 10:15 AM
 

I'm not sure how my post read, but I do understand that it is a big problem for Clemson baseball.

There is nothing Clemson can do about having a billion dollar endownment anytime soon, but opting out of the common market program was a terrible move for our low scholarship sports specifically.

I think it does 3 big things to our baseball program specifically:

1) It costs us a few really big fish who decide to commit to other schools.

2) It costs us some of the few big fish that do commit to Clemson because the draft is more enticing to athletes who know they will have to pay out lots of money to attend school.

3) The lack of financial assistance puts our coaching staff in a tough spot deciding between trying to have scholarship depth and offer smaller percentages per player or trying to make sure they offer lots of money to get the big players on campus and have to rely on more walkons to fill out the roster. Both of these options make the margin for error much smaller for Clemson's coaching during recruiting.

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Re: Can someone please help me understand the endowment scholarships for baseball?


Posted: Apr 19, 2021, 11:12 AM
 

The common market only allows him to get in state tuition to Miss St which basically makes it cost neutral compared to going to Clemson. Since Miss St is a terrible school with average SAT scores almost 200 points below Clemson it’s possible he’s getting an academic scholarship in addition to baseball. Otherwise Miss State is simply using their baseball scholarships as they see fit - no different than Clemson. Further the percent of scholarship against the 11.7 total allowed is calculated after ACM adjustments. So, again, you’re searching for conspiracies rather than accepting the much simpler truth.

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The struggle is real !!!***


Posted: Apr 19, 2021, 11:15 AM
 



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Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.


2nd to last line of this post is Lounge worthy. LOL***

[1]
Posted: Apr 19, 2021, 11:23 AM
 



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Re: Can someone please help me understand the endowment scholarships for baseball?


Posted: Apr 19, 2021, 12:44 PM
 

The State of South Carolina legislators did not renew a program that allowed out of state athletes to pay in state tuition. I can’t answer why the UofSC hasn’t been affected by this change. I think Seth Beer was last recruit we had under that program.

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