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Replies: 43
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Brownell in 1 score games - Last 5 years
Mar 15, 2022, 2:31 PM
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A lot of stats have been posted as of late to try and show that Brownell is a terrible basketball coach. Most people don't have any clue what they are talking about, and others don't add any context at all. Of course the sheep just believe it a move on.
Brownell's record in 1 possession games is 15-18 (could be off by a game) in the last 5 years. This includes this past year, which was terrible. If you don't include this last year, Brownell was 13 and 12.
Now I wanted to add a little context. Brownell typically beats teams we are better than by more than 1 possession. We also tend to play teams that are better than us really close. For example, out of our one possession losses, 4 of those came against solid teams. St. Bonnie, VT, UNC, and Duke.
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CU Medallion [57096]
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That boy sure is a winner, no doubt.
Mar 15, 2022, 2:32 PM
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It’s crazy how people think he’s not a great coach.
Just crazy.
Like you say, the numbers simply speak for themselves.
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CU Medallion [64589]
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It ain't just about the one score games...
Mar 15, 2022, 2:39 PM
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It's about his entire body of work over a twelve year period.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: It ain't just about the one score games...
Mar 15, 2022, 2:47 PM
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Why is it that people on here assume that if you don't hate BB and think he's a terrible coach, then you must love him and think he's the best bball coach of all time?
This isn't a black and white situation. There are reasons to fire him and also some reasons to retain him for 1 more year.
This post wasn't about BB's entire body of works, so I'm unsure why you mentioned. It was a response to the 4+ threads that have been started bashing brownell in close games. These "fans" don't have a clue and apply 0 critical thinking skills to their posts.
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CU Medallion [64589]
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It's entirely black and white...
Mar 15, 2022, 3:43 PM
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Brad Brownell has been at Clemson 12 years and he has made the NCAAT just twice in the last eleven seasons. I don't care what measure or standard you're using, that is not acceptable. If best is the standard, this isn't it and it's beyond time for a change. You are what your record says you are and after 12 years, it is abundantly clear that Brad Brownell is absolutely not the guy who can move the program forward. On the other hand, if you're content with mediocrity on only making the NCAAT about 18% of the time, then Brad is your guy.
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110%er [6825]
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Re: It's entirely black and white...
Mar 15, 2022, 3:53 PM
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Way to shave off NCAA trip, what happened the NCAA made us forfeit for violations or are we just counting that season's NCAA win for OP?
Way to completely omit the 13-14 snub where the NCAA picked dipped below us in the standings to get NC State despite the fact that we were not only 1 game ahead of them but also that we beat them head to head. That snub did more damage to Clemson basketball than Shyatt did in a year.
Way to omit that for the middle year(s) LJ was under construction and had to play in Greenville... which ironically had an attendance boost.
We just had one of our worse seasons in recent memory and we were above .500. Dang, I remember when we would struggle to get to double digit wins in our "bad years".
We did not give Brad a lot to work with his first 5/6 seasons and he did "ok". Now we are just a year out of an NCAA bid, bad injuries, and it is black or white? Are we NC State?
Heck, our "bad" year had our NET ranking one down from UVA.
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CU Medallion [64589]
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So you want to retain CBB a bit longer?
Mar 15, 2022, 3:59 PM
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If so, how much longer?
After 12 years, I think we've seen all we need to see.
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110%er [8008]
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All-TigerNet [13238]
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Here's something he omitted.
Mar 15, 2022, 7:53 PM
[ in reply to Re: It's entirely black and white... ] |
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Brad Brownell's ACC Tournament Record
2011 - Won 1 game
2012 - Lost 1st game (to a lower seed)
2013 - Lost 1st game
2014 - Won 1 game
2015 - Lost 1st game (to a lower seed)
2016 - Lost 1st game (to a lower seed)
2017 - Won 1 game
2018 - Won 1 game
2019 - Lost 1st game
2020 - Won 1 game (games cancelled afterwards)
2021 - Lost 1st game (to a lower seed)
2022 - Won 1 game
6-12 Record
- Never won 2 games in the tournament in any year.
- Has lost to a lower seed, in the first game, 4 times.
- Only made it to the Semi's twice (2011 & 2018).
All this while seeing 8 different teams win the conference the last 11 years (Duke, FSU, Miami, UVA, ND, UNC, Duke, UVA, Duke, Covid, GT, VT).
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110%er [6825]
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Re: It ain't just about the one score games...
Mar 15, 2022, 3:44 PM
[ in reply to Re: It ain't just about the one score games... ] |
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Most folks here just google the previous score/result and then post some random highlight without actually following or watching a game. They *might* tune into a game but most probably see more of the spring football game than any of the actual basketball season.
So they say "I not watching basketball anymore, no excitement, no tackling, no coaching...why are we not taking it inside, why are taking so many 3 pointers, we need two 7 footers and a 6'10 guy out there." If we go get Mark Gottfried or Tim Floyd, maybe Kelvin Sampson ... you know, someone who can 'recruit' then that will solve anything, these kids should be thankful that they get 70 million dollar facilities, blah, blah blah back in my day it was harder"
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110%er [9716]
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Okay okay…you finally convinced me.
Mar 15, 2022, 2:42 PM
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I’m pumped!
When does the season start???
I mean…next season.
Many teams have a season happening now.
But you know what I mean.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Okay okay…you finally convinced me.
Mar 15, 2022, 2:53 PM
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I’m pumped!
When does the season start???
I mean…next season.
Many teams have a season happening now.
But you know what I mean.
Imagine coming onto threads, giving no rational insight, and posting something like this.
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110%er [9716]
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Re: Okay okay…you finally convinced me.
Mar 15, 2022, 2:57 PM
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Imagine getting someone excited about basketball season, and then you insult them for their enthusiasm.
Weird way to support the program.
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110%er [6981]
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Re: Brownell in 1 score games - Last 5 years
Mar 15, 2022, 3:09 PM
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The flaw in this logic is, there are a lot of teams that are better than us…83 to be exact
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Rock Defender [67]
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Re: Brownell in 1 score games - Last 5 years
Mar 15, 2022, 3:14 PM
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The problem is our record in close games is just like our overall record usually (hovering around .500). We have a slightly above average program most years. Some of us just think we can do better, at least make the tournament every couple years....
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Brownell in 1 score games - Last 5 years
Mar 15, 2022, 4:00 PM
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When you say "every couple years" im assuming you mean 1 out of 3 years we should make the touney?
Well, we have made the tourney 2 out of the last 5 years and 3 overall. Unfortunately the 3 overall doesn't hit your 33% of the time threshold.
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110%er [9716]
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Yeah…but…
Mar 15, 2022, 3:18 PM
[ in reply to Re: Brownell in 1 score games - Last 5 years ] |
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Isn’t it fun doing research to find data that can make it sound like we’re good?
That’s what I love about sports!!
The actual games and stuff are just boring.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Yeah…but…
Mar 15, 2022, 3:43 PM
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Isn’t it fun doing research to find data that can make it sound like we’re good?
That’s what I love about sports!!
The actual games and stuff are just boring.
Ummm... these stats don't necessarily make us look good?
It's weird that you are saying this data makes us look good, when you constantly complain and cry about brownell. These are his stats. You just said that these stats looked good. Wow.
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110%er [9716]
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I told you earlier in this thread
Mar 15, 2022, 3:56 PM
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that I’m really excited about basketball, and you weirdly tried to publicly shame me for that.
And then you like to say Clemson basketball doesn’t have good enough fans.
What is wrong with you?
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110%er [5482]
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Re: Brownell in 1 score games - Last 5 years
Mar 15, 2022, 3:30 PM
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I am impressed. 15-18 is such an impressive record. Thanks for digging that out. It is pretty good fish bait for the opposition btw.
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Heisman Winner [140468]
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Well…
Mar 15, 2022, 3:50 PM
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There is a +\-1 margin of error.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Brownell in 1 score games - Last 5 years
Mar 15, 2022, 3:55 PM
[ in reply to Re: Brownell in 1 score games - Last 5 years ] |
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I am impressed. 15-18 is such an impressive record. Thanks for digging that out. It is pretty good fish bait for the opposition btw.
??????
You people are so dumb. You are arguing a point that wasn't even made. Please let me know where I said that these stats were good. I'll wait.
They aren't really good, but also not bad. It shows that brownell has improved considerably in the last 5 years in close games. It also shows how stupid of a stat it is
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110%er [9716]
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“You people” ???
Mar 15, 2022, 4:04 PM
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Thanks for confirming that you’re a RACIST.
I figured so.
Is that why you defend Brownell so much?
Worried we might hire another black head coach? Hmmm?
And now we know why you get so upset when we talk about how good the Oliver Purnell years were.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: “You people” ???
Mar 15, 2022, 4:14 PM
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Thanks for confirming that you’re a RACIST.
I figured so.
Is that why you defend Brownell so much?
Worried we might hire another black head coach? Hmmm?
And now we know why you get so upset when we talk about how good the Oliver Purnell years were.
Holy hel! you just continue to get more and more dumb. At least you just basically confirmed that you are a delusional liberal that should not be taken seriously. The race card? Really? Lol.
Speaking of black coaches, I would be pumped if we hired levelle moton. I played for him a long time ago. Fantastic guy and coach. Fire brownell tomorrow if we could get him. I don't think he would be interested in the job though. He seems completely content at NC Central.
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110%er [9716]
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“Completely content at NC Central”
Mar 15, 2022, 4:21 PM
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Now you’re calling Levelle Moton lazy? You don’t think he has the ambition for a bigger job?
And you don’t even have the respect for him to capitalize the first letters of his name???
Good grief, man. You’re better off just stopping right now. You’re really telling on yourself.
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110%er [5482]
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Re: “Completely content at NC Central”
Mar 15, 2022, 5:45 PM
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Sound like Judge Keller in mountaineer clothing.
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Orange Blooded [2420]
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Re: Brownell in 1 score games - Last 5 years
Mar 16, 2022, 8:57 AM
[ in reply to Re: Brownell in 1 score games - Last 5 years ] |
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Maybe teams are playing down to the competition(us). The Acc is as weak as it has ever been and we are not making a move up. That points to one thing…coaching. I think some on this board wanted the Wofford coach years ago, before he won the ACC title. Amazing what a little change can make. Another example is our football coach. Take a chance folks. Clemson is better than this. The buyout is the same for the next 4 years. Cut our losses today and do it.
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All-In [31303]
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Re: Brownell in 1 score games - Last 5 years
Mar 15, 2022, 3:46 PM
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Sheep? He is average at best. We just finished 10th in the weak ACC. Not sure how one can defend his record. He would have been let go years ago if he had been somewhere else. Again not up to me and I don’t have a dog in the fight seeing I do not make any decisions regarding Clemson athletics but he is not a great coach. We can spin it however anyone wants to spin it but it will fall on deaf ears for those that want better for the program. I say expect more. If he stays we will be talking about this every year he does not make the post season. To pretend we are good or will somehow become competitive after 12 years does not make any sense. Competitive is making the top 4 occasionly in conference. Dang if VTech can do it we sure should be able to as well. Close games if we lose to the number 1 team in the nation is a loss. Let’s expect to not only make the NCAA but survive for a couple of rounds. Make the semis in the ACC tourney. It will not happen with this guy. I hate it and wish it were different but it’s not and nothing he has done makes me feel things will somehow get us to be what in my opinion is competitive. We play a weak OOC schedule if not we would not be .500.
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Legend [16252]
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Brownell's 1 possession game record the last 5 years is
Mar 15, 2022, 3:49 PM
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12-17, a 41.4% winning clip. Through these calculations I went with final scores for OT games, though, and did not treat them separately. However, I was consistent with that approach for all other comparisons also. Approaching those differently could tweak the numbers some.
Our overall record was 59.9% during that stretch. Out of all other ACC coaches, ironically only Coach K had a greater discrepancy between his team's overall win % and his record in 1-possession games (58.3% to 77.4%), but that has a LOT to do with Duke's premier OOC slate early season and playing better teams deeper into post-season tournaments. Duke plays better teams more often than anyone else in the league, so close games are more likely going to be against more competitive opponents on average.
FWIW, I'd like to forget this past year also.
Go Tigers.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Brownell's 1 possession game record the last 5 years is
Mar 15, 2022, 4:27 PM
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I included all ot games whether they finished in a 1 point game or not.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Legend [16252]
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Re: Brownell's 1 possession game record the last 5 years is
Mar 15, 2022, 5:08 PM
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Yes it does. It's unfortunate the same doesn't apply to Brownell's success in one-score games. Our near 60% win margin overall versus 41% there says something is amiss. Wonder what that could be.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Brownell's 1 possession game record the last 5 years is
Mar 15, 2022, 8:20 PM
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Yes it does. It's unfortunate the same doesn't apply to Brownell's success in one-score games. Our near 60% win margin overall versus 41% there says something is amiss. Wonder what that could be.
Yea, we typically don't have one possession games with sh!tty teams.
We have a better shot at a 1 possession game with Duke than we do with UNC Charlotte.
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Legend [16252]
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Re: Brownell's 1 possession game record the last 5 years is
Mar 16, 2022, 9:51 AM
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The same would apply to every other team in the league, boss, yet Brad still brings up the rear here in these.
The numbers are what they are. You can Tasmanian devil them all over the place to your heart's content but it doesn't change the fact that Brad's record in one possession games compared to his overall win % is LAST among his ACC coaching peers. Dead, honking, last. Consistently over 12 years, up through today.
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Orange Blooded [2420]
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Re: Brownell's 1 possession game record the last 5 years is
Mar 16, 2022, 10:40 AM
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And that doesn’t even count the extra losses in the tournament each year that the good coaches have. Just read where UNC and Duke have more NCAA tournament wins and less losses, than coach B does in career at Clemson.
Message was edited by: tigersnake1954®
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110%er [5482]
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Brownell's 1 possession game record the last 5 years is
Mar 15, 2022, 8:21 PM
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Is everyone who disagrees with you dumb and stupid? How did you get along in the business world?
Nope, only people that are completely delusional about our basketball program.
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Heisman Winner [140468]
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Does this include 4 point losses?
Mar 15, 2022, 4:29 PM
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Or does a 3 pointer that goes in with a +1 for a foul count as 2 scores?
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Does this include 4 point losses?
Mar 15, 2022, 8:22 PM
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Or does a 3 pointer that goes in with a +1 for a foul count as 2 scores?
I do agree that it is a flawed, stupid stat.
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CU Guru [1778]
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Re: Brownell in 1 score games - Last 5 years
Mar 15, 2022, 4:50 PM
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I don't think he's a terrible coach. I think, he's an average coach that has been given too long. I think recent history shows that we can be consistently better.
I'm not willing to remove the first half of his tenure from his record. He led the program into that decline. We still haven't gotten back to where we were even with the better facilities.
Looking at records in one possession games, injuries, and other unfortunate events aren't really necessary when you have a 12 year body of work. There's a point and counterpoint to most of these issues. At the end of the day, it's about where he inherited the program and where we are now, 12 years later.
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Orange Blooded [2420]
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Re: Brownell in 1 score games - Last 5 years
Mar 15, 2022, 5:37 PM
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How many games, in coach Bs years at Clemson, have we come back and won after being down by ten points?
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110%er [5482]
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Re: Brownell in 1 score games - Last 5 years
Mar 15, 2022, 5:48 PM
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According to JK’s minions it is probably 100%.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Brownell in 1 score games - Last 5 years
Mar 15, 2022, 8:23 PM
[ in reply to Re: Brownell in 1 score games - Last 5 years ] |
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How many games, in coach Bs years at Clemson, have we come back and won after being down by ten points?
I'm not sure, why don't you look it up and give us an update.
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Orange Blooded [4454]
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Re: Brownell in 1 score games - Last 5 years
Mar 15, 2022, 9:07 PM
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You guys are hilarious with all your data and up and down discussions. No wonder we have been sitting around for 12 years and can’t make 1 BB decision. ????
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