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Is it time for Plan B for democrats?
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Is it time for Plan B for democrats?


Sep 10, 2015, 3:52 PM

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/09/10/us/politics/big-name-plan-bs-for-democrats-concerned-about-hillary-clinton.html?_r=0&referrer=

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Re: Is it time for Plan B for democrats?


Sep 10, 2015, 4:35 PM

"Sanders would be disastrous for the democratic party......"

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"FEEL THE BERN" of a friggin' socialist in the white


Sep 10, 2015, 5:19 PM

house. Not one that everybody thinks is one but won't own up to it, but one who goes in saying he is.

Cuba and Brazil here we come!

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Re: "FEEL THE BERN" of a friggin' socialist in the white


Sep 10, 2015, 6:15 PM

I don't think he is leading in Iowa nor New Hampshire because he is a socialist. I believe(just as on the R side with Trump) that people are sick of the status quo, the lies, the backroom deals etc.

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Brazil?***


Sep 10, 2015, 8:07 PM [ in reply to "FEEL THE BERN" of a friggin' socialist in the white ]



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Imbibage...should have been Venezuala***


Sep 14, 2015, 10:16 AM



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Re: Is it time for Plan B for democrats?


Sep 10, 2015, 8:53 PM

Plan B, LoEstrin, Ortho Tri-Cyclen, Yasmin... As long as there are fewer of them.

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The Wall Street Banker's Times getting restless... They


Sep 14, 2015, 7:55 AM

don't want to see Bernie messing with their financial ###### of the American public... Get ready for it.

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I don't want Bernie anywhere near influencing our economy...


Sep 14, 2015, 7:58 AM

and I'm not a Wall Street banker!

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What part of "our economy" do you think he'd change...?***


Sep 14, 2015, 8:08 AM



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Well, as one example, he campaigns on making...


Sep 14, 2015, 8:44 AM

"the rich pay their fair share" of income taxes and claims he would raise upper marginal rates (again). He doesn't define exactly his definition of "fair share", but it is likely pretty "out there". Heck...I think if one looks at the income tax data published by the IRS and determines that the "rich" don't "pay their fair share", then they're already "pretty far out there". Of course, his web site doesn't list any changes to the income tax rates, but he sure talks a lot about it in his stump speeches. He also wants to raise corporate income tax rates on "large corporations".

Sorry...can't stop at one...he also wants to enact a Medicare based single-payer healthcare system.

Oh...and another...he wasn't to turn the country towards a protectionist bent. Reversing NAFTA and CAFTA. He says that if companies want us to buy their products, they need to make them in America. Hello...massive inflation.

And lastly for now...he wants to require employers to provide at least 12 weeks of paid family and medical leave, two weeks of paid vacation, and 7 days of paid sick days. He wants the federal government to require this of all employers. ALL employers. He's clueless. I can tell you, my company offers very good benefits for our hourly production employees and at our current plan, we have serious difficulties in running our production floor as a result. We're currently grappling with how to run a profitable operation with good benefits for employees and actually have the people we need to make the product at work each day. And he wants to move current FMLA 12 weeks to PAID 12 weeks. Good lawd...does he really think a company can afford to lose a production worker for 12 weeks...hire someone to fill-in for them which is likely less productive AND pay the person who is out?

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I think you just convinced me to support Bernie.***


Sep 14, 2015, 11:58 AM



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Go right ahead...


Sep 14, 2015, 4:24 PM

he would be a disaster, but you have every right to vote for a disaster.

Assuming you normally vote dem, you should be used to that :)

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Re: Go right ahead...


Sep 15, 2015, 3:15 AM

I would hate for you to have to pay your fair share in taxes, and treat your employees fairly, that would be disaster.

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Re: Go right ahead...


Sep 15, 2015, 7:23 AM

What is the "fair share" of a family of 5 making 300k per year?

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Re: Go right ahead...


Sep 15, 2015, 10:21 AM

What is the "fair share" of a family of 5 making 300k per year?

The same as a family of 1 making 300k per year.

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by what measures do you conclude anyone is...


Sep 15, 2015, 10:45 AM [ in reply to Re: Go right ahead... ]

"not paying their fair share"? All of the different splits pay more in % of income tax paid than their respective % of income earned. You get that, right?

And as for treating employees fairly, I would challenge you to find any manufacturer in our area who has better benefits than we do. As with most "feel good" ideas from the left, forcing such a change, like 12 weeks paid family leave won't really help the employees in the end, as we won't be able to compete with our off-shore competitors or large company competitors who have larger pots of $$ to move around to supplement various businesses.

How anyone on the left can bish and complain about manufacturing jobs moving out of the US and then propose programs that inflate the labor cost and suggest that corporate taxes need to be increased...is beyond me. Just total ignorance on how the real world works.

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You can thank those large company competitors for


Sep 15, 2015, 12:59 PM

lobbying for the tax loopholes they enjoy by off-shoring the jobs for the last thirty years. I'm surprised that you are contentious with Reagan's Tax Reform Act of 1986 that has all but been obliterated by massive lobbying efforts in Congress. Of course, Bernie wanting something similar to Reagan doesn't fit the discussion, does it?

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can you be more specific...what specific "loopholes" are...


Sep 15, 2015, 2:20 PM

you referring to...in your own words please.

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Any other time, you'd probably want a link.... Link:


Sep 16, 2015, 11:12 AM

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/25/business/economy/25tax.html?_r=0

Here's a start from 2011... There are many, many more. GE alone has a department with ~1000 dedicated to nothing but tax avoidance. That might give you a clue.

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Having worked for GE, I have a clue...


Sep 16, 2015, 3:14 PM

but this is a very complicated matter, especially when I hear phrases like "bring the profits back to the US" thrown around. That kind of phrase is normally used by folks who have no clue about foreign regulations and tax rules in general.

That's why I asked for you to explain it in your own words. Posting the article about GE, which I've read before, doesn't really touch on the topic in general. When Sanders says he wants to close "loopholes"...which specific "loopholes" is he referring to?

A company must pay taxes in the country where the profits are made. Is he suggesting that companies should also pay taxes here in the US on those same profits? I doubt it...or at least I hope not.

Is he talking about "profit-shifting" where companies play around with the transfer price of goods in order to show profits in the most tax-advantageous location? Those rules already exist in just about every country. I know them very well personally, as a lot of my business is selling goods that are produced in Europe (Germany to be specific). The German authorities insist that certain mark-ups be placed on such goods by our Germany entities in-order that profits are not "shifted" disproportionately to the US.

In the end, my point is that if you're going to call for "loopholes" to be changed, then you ought to be able to explain them and cite them in your own words and give specifics.

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Re: Having worked for GE, I have a clue...


Sep 16, 2015, 3:55 PM

It's more interesting to know what loopholes are actually out there, than to hear what some politician, who isn't going to win, is campaign-promising to address.

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I don't have time to read 75,000 pages of the IRS Tax Code


Sep 16, 2015, 4:16 PM [ in reply to Having worked for GE, I have a clue... ]

that the KStreet 'boys' wrote for all the pertinent Congressional staffs... GE alone requires a thousand to do theirs... Even so, you still haven't answered why Reagan thought it necessary and yet for the last thirty years it's being dismembered. By the way, why is that your company has to buy 'marked up' items from Germany...? Isn't the US the greatest technological country in the world....? (or is that just capitalist?)

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Perhaps you should then consider to....


Sep 16, 2015, 4:35 PM

####?!? If you don't understand what you're talking about...don't talk about it.

We make products in Germany that we don't make over here and vice versa. But your comments sound a lot like Bernie's "why do we need some many types of deodorant" BS...which is telling.

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Re: Perhaps you should then consider to....


Sep 17, 2015, 8:02 AM

http://www.demos.org/blog/5/27/15/bernie-sanders-deodorant-argument-one-most-substantive-campaign-so-far

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I get his point...it's not bad because I don't understand...


Sep 17, 2015, 10:41 AM

it...it's bad because it's wrong, misguided, and shows such a fundamental disconnect from economic reality.

But i get it...and I believe Sanders honestly believes this. I'm not calling the man stupid...I'm calling dead wrong.

I respect Sanders, because I think he believes what he says and he's generally consistent and doesn't pander.

But I think he's dead wrong and would be a disaster as President.

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"we should distribute the national income "


Sep 17, 2015, 10:56 AM [ in reply to Re: Perhaps you should then consider to.... ]

So there's that. Distribute the national income. My income. Your income. You mande, buty it needs to be spent over here, and you don;t get to choose that. Interesting, because it goes along with this:

If the company that determined there was big money to be made by innovatively telling teen boys that using a certain brand of deodorant would cause attractive women to have sex with them decided not to go through with creating Axe because taxes were too high, Bernie is saying he is OK with that. You might have less brands to choose from on the deodorant aisle, but on the plus side kids will get to eat.

Who gets to choose what our national income gets distributed on, and who gets to decide what products would be taxed so high that they won't be consumed/produced?

Which deodorants would be deemed "ok" as to not be taxed into oblivion? From what I gather Ole Bern thinks that the gubmint should be doing this kind of thing. Is that really a core function of government? "choosing" our deodorant (through excessive taxation)? In the end, who is the person that gets to decide what "social value" any product has, (regardless of where the taxes these socially invaluable products may generate are applied to).

"Feel the Bern" huh...more like Feel the rotating cactus up your ###.

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Jim Webb.***


Sep 14, 2015, 8:17 AM



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Re: Jim Webb.***


Sep 14, 2015, 9:21 AM

I'm hoping

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