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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Brad's contract and coaching change
Mar 12, 2015, 1:30 PM
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You people (that's right YOU PEOPLE) don't understand that Brad kind of had Clemson over a barrel in contract negotiations. I know this isn't going to be popular, but Brad walking away was really not an option. For better or worse, Clemson had to keep him because it was going to be really hard to convince a new coach to come in for this season, a season in Greenville, and then a season in the new LJ. That's not the type of uncertainty you're looking for as a coach, especially if this is your make or break job. So basically, Brad wanted reassurance that he wasn't going to get canned during the transition from old LJ to Greenville and back to new LJ. He didn't want to do all of the suffering, and then have a new coach be brought in as soon as the renovations were complete. That's why he negotiated such a large buy out for an otherwise average contract in terms of pay. Clemson had the choice to give him what he wanted or have him walk. Trust me, D-Rad isn't stupid, Brad doesn't get a 5 million dollar buy out unless he thinks Brad walks without it.
So basically, you had the same situation as the University of Tennessee had last year, and probably with the exact same coaching pool. UT decided to call Martin's bluff, and low ball his contract and buy out, and Martin went to Cal, leaving UT to make an emergency hire, that ended up being a guy that is probably going to get hammered by the NCAA at the end of the season. UT also lost an entire recruiting class and about 1/2 their roster because they didn't fit with the new coaches system. This was going to be the fate of Clemson as well. I understand that some of you don't think Brad was the guy, but letting him walk during this time of transition would have been the worst possible decision. Our program would have once again taken a giant step backwards, just as we are starting to get some stability (in terms of our roster and recruiting) again. D-Rad made the right choice and Tennessee made the wrong choice, in my opinion. Once we get through this transitional period, we will be in a much better negotiating area with both Brad and if necessary, a new coach, who we won't have to hire out of desperation.
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All-TigerNet [10402]
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Re: Brad's contract and coaching change
Mar 12, 2015, 1:37 PM
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Even tho Brad will be here for 3 more years and I don't expect more. He still has to be held accountable for the crap he puts on the floor. He needs some fire up his ### and maybe just maybe things improve. The way this team played the last 10 games looked like he didn't have a clue what to do.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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What do you suggest
Mar 12, 2015, 1:42 PM
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How do you plan to "put some fire up his ###". It's fun to say stuff like that, but what exactly does it involve?
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All-In [30593]
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you need to consult
Mar 12, 2015, 1:44 PM
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bob
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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That response was a little too quick IMO***
Mar 12, 2015, 1:45 PM
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All-In [30593]
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somethings just can't wait tho... you'll learn that if you
Mar 12, 2015, 1:45 PM
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ask bob about lighting a fire in somebody's ###
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Oculus Spirit [96848]
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All-In [30593]
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you wood too if you were under
Mar 12, 2015, 1:51 PM
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this
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Heisman Winner [119698]
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Dat be Demi?
Mar 12, 2015, 2:31 PM
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you know...inquiring minds...
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CU Guru [1632]
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jennifer connelly***
Mar 13, 2015, 12:20 PM
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All-TigerNet [10402]
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Re: What do you suggest
Mar 12, 2015, 1:47 PM
[ in reply to What do you suggest ] |
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I guess there is no way , DRad could either put him on the hot seat or give him 5 mill. IDk
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Do you think Brad is not trying to win?
Mar 12, 2015, 1:50 PM
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That seems to be what you are implying. You do realize that if Brad fails at Clemson, which he is about 2-3 years away from doing, it is going to be very hard for him to secure another coaching job. That seems like it is motivation enough. The idea the Brad isn't "trying" is ridiculous.
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All-TigerNet [10402]
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Re: Do you think Brad is not trying to win?
Mar 12, 2015, 1:58 PM
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I didn't
say he wanted to lose, I think maybe he is over his head. I know if next year is about the same, buyout or not he needs some serious pressure from the brass.Bring in an assistant and give him lots of room. There are head Coaches in D2 that would come here for a 2 year tryout.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Again, you don't think he feels pressure to succeed?
Mar 12, 2015, 2:02 PM
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You don't get as far in your profession as Brad Brownell without being internally motivated. "Pressure from above" is no different than "pressure from with in" in this case. If you really want to make Clemson a 2 year "try out" school, then you really have no idea about basketball recruiting, and just how long these kids are recruited by coaches. A 2 year "try out" coach would probably be limited to cast offs, JuCo's, and maybe and occasional prep school kid.
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All-TigerNet [10402]
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Re: Again, you don't think he feels pressure to succeed?
Mar 12, 2015, 2:14 PM
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Well by the way this team shoots the ball, the talent CBB is bringing in now is not much better. I know next year is going to be different playing in Gville. But the floor is the same length and the baskets 10 ft.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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You don't think Grantham and Hudson
Mar 12, 2015, 2:16 PM
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Are 2 of the more talented players that BB has brought into the program? I think they are more talented than the players leaving the program. Throw in a 7'0 post in Legend, and the recruiting has looked better considering the circumstances.
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CU Guru [1404]
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Re: Brad's contract and coaching change
Mar 12, 2015, 2:09 PM
[ in reply to Re: Brad's contract and coaching change ] |
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Was it crap that beat Syracuse, NC State on Road, Arkansas, fought Louisville on road tough, won 4 staight ACC games... something that is rare in Clemson history?
Go away and watch Clemson baseball. There you have a program that is underachieving, failing to meet expectations and has the talent to compete at a high level.
Go bark about Jack Leg.
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All-TigerNet [10402]
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Re: Brad's contract and coaching change
Mar 12, 2015, 2:19 PM
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That's the whole point, to beat teams like that in the middle of the year. Then fall apart, that's crap.
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110%er [7207]
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Good Post
Mar 12, 2015, 1:42 PM
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I was actually just going to post something about his contract. IF you're going to sign someone in Clemson's situation, you have have to assure them that they aren't going to be fired based on 1-2 seasons worth of results when it's clear recruiting is going to be difficult.
For what it's worth, Brownell makes less than the 7 ACC coaches that went dancing last year and the same will be true this year.
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Legend [19352]
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Re: Brad's contract and coaching change
Mar 12, 2015, 1:58 PM
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Hall of Famer [22387]
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The buyout isn't as big of a deal as people are making it.
Mar 12, 2015, 2:04 PM
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Cost of doing business.
I think he understands that he needs to improve dramatically next year or the timing will be good for a coaching change. But, I still think DRad makes that perfectly clear to him in the postseason interview.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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If Clemson drops 5 mill on a buyout
Mar 12, 2015, 2:06 PM
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They are going to be asking York to coach the team. We don't spend that much on basketball. That 5 mill could be used for new bidets and the football locker rooms.
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All-In [30593]
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i'd do it for less than a mil***
Mar 12, 2015, 2:07 PM
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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i'd <3
Mar 12, 2015, 2:10 PM
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tigernet with you as coach.
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All-In [30593]
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let's make it happen***
Mar 12, 2015, 2:11 PM
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Only if you name Go Long and Clem117 as assistants
Mar 12, 2015, 2:13 PM
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I want to see some tension and slap fights on the bench if the basketball is boring.
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All-In [30593]
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could only hire one of them.. pretty sure university policy
Mar 12, 2015, 2:17 PM
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prevents hiring spouses
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Orange Blooded [4095]
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Orange Blooded [3921]
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I'll do it for a clothing allowance***
Mar 12, 2015, 3:57 PM
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and a chick fil a sammich
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Orange Blooded [4504]
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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the buyout will not be lump sum, just as bowden's was not.
Mar 12, 2015, 2:10 PM
[ in reply to If Clemson drops 5 mill on a buyout ] |
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brownell held no cards, the admin decided he was the guy to shepherd the program through the coming reno years. nothing wrong with that, it's just business as is the buyout.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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You think they just gave him a 5 million dollar buyout
Mar 12, 2015, 2:11 PM
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On an otherwise average contract because they are nice people?
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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i think drad has a history of loading the buyout up front
Mar 12, 2015, 2:17 PM
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as a course of business, yes.
brad brownell had zero leverage other than the admin agreeing he'd earned the right to shepherd the program in the coming years.
they would line the streets with "brad brownells" willing to fill the job for less, just as he came in the wake to the terribly, horrible situation some of you try to paint when OP left in the middle of the night.
stop kidding yourself about clemson's job. it's a great place to raise a family, business might be difficult, but not impossible and it pays well.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Would you be happy trying another Brad Brownell?
Mar 12, 2015, 2:18 PM
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Seems like we already have one in place. You're not in on the Shaka Smart delusion are you?
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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you tried to suggest brad brownell had torque & used
Mar 12, 2015, 2:20 PM
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it to leverage the buyout & contract. he did not, but i don't blame you from trying to change the conversation.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Why would you give a coach a 5 million dollar buy out
Mar 12, 2015, 2:23 PM
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On an otherwise mediocre contract? You seem to think that D-Rad is a bad negotiator. Do you think Brad stays for, let's say, a 1 million dollar buy out? If he does, why do you make it a 5 million dollar buy out. I might not be that good at business, but that doesn't make much sense to me. Brad could have walked after last year, and he would have walked into a new D1 job. That seems like pretty decent leverage in a negotiation.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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no, not at all. i think he's smart. you guarantee a
Mar 12, 2015, 2:28 PM
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reasonable amount in year 6[as with dabo in year 8] of a coach you think is the answer. you load a buyout upfront as assurance to the brownell camp that it is a longterm commitment, one that will pay him the full term of it if the school decides to go in a different direction.
the buyout isn't prohibitive to the school and it makes the brownell camp whole, if they decide to part ways. it's just good, fair business.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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It does pretty much guarantee that they don't part ways
Mar 12, 2015, 2:34 PM
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In the first 3 years of the contract though, which I assume was important to Brad. Without that assurance I think he walks, so we're basically saying the same thing. Do you think D-Rad negotiated a bad contract?
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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we might be saying some of the same things, but not for the
Mar 12, 2015, 2:48 PM
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same reasons which is why i responded.
coach brownell is here because the admin wanted him and then was given the contract as is because that's how drad is willing[and known] to do business; if those things make brad happy, that's just great!
brad brownell has nothing clemson has to have, while on the other hand clemson has something many people want, but there was no reason for it to be contentious.
i see you suggesting this might have been an anxious or contentious moment or that coach b held cards that he doesn't. i don't believe any of that existed. it was two parties coming to an agreement; the contract wasn't announced until may 23rd, it wasn't hurried or harried; it was the best for both parties concerned.
as for the contract, i have zero issue with the way drad does business. i understood dabo's contract as well. they both make good business sense - all things considered.
i hope coach b makes the magic happen.
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Legend [16134]
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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flee? no, no, but you do leave for a higher paying 7 year contract...
Mar 14, 2015, 8:27 AM
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and an all expenses paid trip to chitown.
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Legend [16134]
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You can spin it anyway you want to, but quitting in the
Mar 14, 2015, 5:04 PM
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middle of the night like he did is running away.period.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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spin it? he got paid, i know you hate him, but dude
Mar 14, 2015, 5:15 PM
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left for a rich challenge.
run, run away for $2.2 million per year & 7 years? no spin in that unless it's the new dryer he bought his wife?
he left every job before clemson for a higher paying job and did the same when he left clemson. i'm surprised he stay as long as he did.
don't hate 'murica cause OP was livin' his dream.
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Legend [16134]
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I don't hate him anymore than you hate Brad, so
Mar 14, 2015, 5:19 PM
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there's that...the rest is spin spin spin
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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yes, that's what you often do and it's boring.***
Mar 14, 2015, 5:23 PM
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Legend [16134]
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Yes what? what do I do often?***
Mar 14, 2015, 5:35 PM
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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another stupid question? you should get a patent.***
Mar 14, 2015, 5:37 PM
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Legend [16134]
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patent for what?***
Mar 14, 2015, 5:38 PM
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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not surprised in the least.***
Mar 14, 2015, 5:40 PM
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Legend [16134]
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how boring could I possibly be if you keep answering?***
Mar 14, 2015, 6:09 PM
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Legend [16134]
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Legend [16134]
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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depaul was looking for their coach for 3 months, i'm sure
Mar 14, 2015, 5:22 PM
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they needed an answer or they were going to move on. he had to make a decision and did. that's how it works sometimes, no matter how much you spin it.
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Legend [16134]
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So coaches typically resign at 1:30 am and let their
Mar 14, 2015, 5:34 PM
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players find out on twitter? And I'M the spinner? He petrinoed us and you know it, you just don't want to admit it...I get it
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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no and they don't typically accept at that time either.
Mar 14, 2015, 5:39 PM
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he left every job he'd been at for more money including to come to clemson. he left clemson for $2.2mil @ 7 years.
he was making $1.3ish at clemson.
helluva spin.
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Legend [16134]
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I love how you keep trying to change the subject, but it
Mar 14, 2015, 6:08 PM
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doesn't change the fact that he left in the middle of the night in a cowardly fashion....I don't care how big his raise was, calling TDP at 1:30 am and not telling his players before he left was very unprofessional, and if you're half as smart as you think you are, I wouldn't have to keep explaining that fact to you
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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Legend [16134]
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You keep bringing up his raise instead of explaining how
Mar 14, 2015, 6:20 PM
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quitting at 1:30 am isn't running away in the middle of the night
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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you're the only one that changed the subject. you turned
Mar 14, 2015, 6:29 PM
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a good brad brownell discussion into more of your simple-minded, anti-op rantings.
whether he's an ahole or not for leaving when he did, it does not change the why he did.
he did not leave a bad situation and he has said as much. was he an ahole for the "how"? absolutely and i've said as much before.
try to stay on topic and not move your own cheese. you don't do so well when it gets too hectic even if by your own doing.
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Legend [16134]
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I didn't bring up OP, you did, try to keep up***
Mar 14, 2015, 6:42 PM
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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yes and? you changed the subject, tried to accuse someone
Mar 14, 2015, 6:52 PM
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else of doing what only you'd done & here you are with more of your absurdity because that's all you've left.
i know you can't keep up so i won't bother by asking you to do so.
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Legend [16134]
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At least you finally admitted that running off in the middle
Mar 14, 2015, 6:57 PM
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of the night even for more $ WAS an assho1e move...That's a start
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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i've never said any different, you just don't keep up.***
Mar 14, 2015, 6:58 PM
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Legend [16134]
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You didn't make excuse after excuse about the why when we
Mar 14, 2015, 7:00 PM
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were talking about the how?
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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no excuse for why he left, he left for $2.2 mil & 7 years.***
Mar 14, 2015, 7:03 PM
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Legend [16134]
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And I never begrudged him for leaving to make more $***
Mar 14, 2015, 7:05 PM
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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cm shack, we're done here. maybe your blocks miss you?***
Mar 14, 2015, 7:07 PM
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Legend [16134]
TigerPulse: 90%
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Joined: 11/18/03
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Clever as always....Tell us another story about some
Mar 14, 2015, 8:07 PM
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hot chick you used to bang back when you thought you were cool
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Zealot [868]
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Re: At least you finally admitted that running off in the middle
Mar 14, 2015, 7:05 PM
[ in reply to At least you finally admitted that running off in the middle ] |
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Who cares?
We wouldn't show that we were committed to him and the basketball program, so he bolted for more money.
Don't blame him at all.
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Hall of Famer [22387]
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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same exact thing they did with dabo. load it up in front
Mar 12, 2015, 2:23 PM
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to guarantee $3ish million 8 years down the road. it's just business.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
TigerPulse: 98%
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Joined: 9/27/04
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Why would you front load a buy out clause?
Mar 12, 2015, 2:26 PM
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I understand that you can set it to decrease as the contract continues, but I'm pretty sure job security was during this transition was one of Brad's main interests in the contract. He didn't negotiate much of a raise, just a big buy out.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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All-In [30593]
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you're so helpful***
Mar 12, 2015, 2:31 PM
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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^^^ truer werds have yet been spoken.***
Mar 12, 2015, 2:32 PM
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Legend [19352]
TigerPulse: 92%
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Joined: 4/25/04
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Re: ^^^ truer werds have yet been spoken.***
Mar 12, 2015, 2:54 PM
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I dk GoLong calling York an ######## was up there.
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CU Medallion [64589]
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I tend to agree.....
Mar 12, 2015, 2:35 PM
[ in reply to The buyout isn't as big of a deal as people are making it. ] |
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while the buyout is rediculously high, particularly considering that Coach Borwnell's is only $1.5 million, I think the reason DRad agreed to it was because he knew there was very little if any real chance Clemson would be paying it.
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MVP [508]
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Re: Brad's contract and coaching change
Mar 12, 2015, 2:40 PM
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Stability in our roster and recruiting? Where do you see it? We have produced a "perpetual projects program" here - missing the NCAA's for three out of the last four years now....Don't forget that D-Rad left GA Tech men's and women's basketball programs in horrible shape as he came here and is now well into doing the same with our men's and women's basketball programs as well....Terrible decision to revamp LJ from 10,000 to 8,500 seating capacity in the face of our ACC competition seating upwards to 25,000....How will that help us in our recruiting?....Terrible decision to re-up Brad at the end of last season, the first of two successive disappointing seasons now, for such large numbers.....No, I would rather have seen a new, younger, up-start coach come in here for this period who would most likely have us at least in the same position Brad will have us in at the end of these three years with a much better opportunity to take it upward as we begin life in our "new and improved LJ," thank you!!!!
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Legend [19352]
TigerPulse: 92%
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Joined: 4/25/04
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Re: Brad's contract and coaching change
Mar 12, 2015, 2:44 PM
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another new scok emerges from the depths.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
TigerPulse: 98%
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Joined: 9/27/04
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Yes, stability
Mar 12, 2015, 2:52 PM
[ in reply to Re: Brad's contract and coaching change ] |
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A coaching change pre LJ upgrade would basically gut the current roster and get rid of any recruiting in roads we have established. It would be back to square one with another coach who doesn't bring a big cache or ACC recruiting ties.
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MVP [508]
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Re: Yes, stability
Mar 12, 2015, 3:26 PM
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Yes, stability in the continued recruitment of our "perpetual projects" basketball recruits....I'm sorry but we do not need any more of that....The situation calls for an exciting and dramatic move forward....Are we not Tigers????....Can we not make better use of these next three years????
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All-TigerNet [13190]
TigerPulse: 98%
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You don't follow Clemson recruiting do you?
Mar 12, 2015, 3:27 PM
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Please explain how Donte Grantham and Ty Hudson are "project" players? I'll hang up and listen.
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Legend [19352]
TigerPulse: 92%
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Re: You don't follow Clemson recruiting do you?
Mar 12, 2015, 3:29 PM
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I just wonder who's username we are talking to...
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MVP [508]
TigerPulse: 84%
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Re: You don't follow Clemson recruiting do you?
Mar 12, 2015, 3:47 PM
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Class of 1970 graduate....Have followed Clemson recruiting for 45 years running now....Claim to basketball fame: playing midnight pick-up basketball with Pete Maravich in the old Clemson YMCA, playing in the intramural basketball championship game against Charlie Waters' fraternity team, and witnessing Clemson's basketball upset victory over nationally ranked Duke in the jamb-packed old "Cow Palace" with 4,500 other excited Clemson fans - all during my time at Clemson as a student....Follow Clemson recruiting from a more national scale vantagepoint....
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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So if you follow it one a national scale
Mar 12, 2015, 4:51 PM
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You've really got to like Grantham and Hudson, both were national recruits. Heck so was Robertin.
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MVP [508]
TigerPulse: 84%
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Re: So if you follow it one a national scale
Mar 13, 2015, 11:52 AM
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None of them have impacted Clemson basketball in their freshman year like you would come to expect from any "star" recruit. None of them were game ready on arrival. Your have GOT to have that and we have never had that with new recruits freshman year under Brad - even KJ!!!!
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Legend [19686]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 8/18/05
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Name the impact freshmen in Clemson history
Mar 13, 2015, 7:58 PM
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I can name 3. Rollins, Wise and Buckner. Who else?
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Legend [16134]
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Barnes first full class***
Mar 13, 2015, 8:24 PM
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Legend [19686]
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none of them averaged double figures
Mar 13, 2015, 8:26 PM
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as freshmen except Boogie. I would include him as an impact freshman.
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Legend [16134]
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We started 4 freshman, they made an impact on the program***
Mar 14, 2015, 12:14 AM
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Legend [19686]
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We never started 4 freshmen under Barnes
Mar 14, 2015, 12:24 AM
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That year Buckner, Code and Iturbe were holdovers from the prior year. Boogie started and Wideman and Jamison rotated in the post. Neither of them averaged 5 points a game. Christie played a lot off the bench
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Legend [19686]
TigerPulse: 100%
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by your definition Grantham is an impact Freshman
Mar 14, 2015, 12:31 AM
[ in reply to We started 4 freshman, they made an impact on the program*** ] |
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That was a good class but none of them other than Boogie were ever a game changer. That's what this discussion is centered on, people saying a new coach will bring in guys who will excel from day one. Adding Boogie, we're up to 4 Freshmen in the last 42 years who have done that
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Legend [19686]
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Orange Blooded [4095]
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I say, keep the "D", throw out the "O", BB keeps his job...
Mar 12, 2015, 3:37 PM
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beating a dead horse. Contract says he stays for awhile ... just hire an Offensive Coordinator ... Leonard Hamilton has one, why can't we ?
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All-TigerNet [12505]
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Yea, if Brownell would have left, we wouldn't be in the NCAA
Mar 13, 2015, 12:57 PM
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tournament. Oh, wait.
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All-TigerNet [12539]
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Should have let him walk. How much worse can it get? We
Mar 13, 2015, 9:05 PM
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can't even score points, let alone beat Gardner-Webb, Winthrop, Wofford, Coastal, or Cootville.
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All-TigerNet [12539]
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Stability in terms of our roster and recruiting? Take a step
Mar 13, 2023, 2:10 PM
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backwards? You can't go backwards from where we are. Recruiting stability? Really? Roster? we have a roster full of people that should be playing in the Big South or Southern conferences.
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Legend [19686]
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Then Brownell is the best coach in America
Mar 13, 2015, 9:25 PM
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winning 8 ACC games with a Big South roster
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All-TigerNet [12539]
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8 out of 19 counting the tourney game.
Mar 14, 2015, 8:18 AM
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In case you haven't noticed it, outside of UNC, Duke, Virginia, Louisville and Notre Dame, the ACC is not that great. It's better than the SEC obviously, but the teams below these are not that good. And we haven't beaten any of those teams in years. The basketball program is dead in the water and the sooner a change happens, the less of a disaster it is going to be. He has not recruited well enough to get Clemson even to where it was when Purnell, Barnes, and at times, Ellis were here. After the transition to the newly painted Littlejohn, then let the clock start ticking on his regime.
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Legend [19686]
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We beat Duke last year***
Mar 14, 2015, 9:22 AM
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Legend [16134]
TigerPulse: 90%
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All-In [44044]
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"You can't go backwards from where we are." Really?!?
Mar 14, 2015, 9:46 AM
[ in reply to Stability in terms of our roster and recruiting? Take a step ] |
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We finished in the middle of the pack - eighth out of 15 teams. We were on the bubble a few weeks ago, we play hard, and were competitive in almost every game. While I obviously want much more than that, I think it must be viewed in context of losing our best player in years to the NBA Draft, losing several key assistants to head coaching jobs (this hurts recruiting), and the fact that it is going to take a couple more years to get over the hump. That is the reality of coaching basketball at Clemson.
Some of you act like Brownell is no better than Shyatt.
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110%er [6098]
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110%er [6098]
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seems to be a logical and plausible answer
Mar 14, 2015, 5:26 PM
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Plus, I think Brad is a better coach than people think
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