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Brad brownell and transfers
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Brad brownell and transfers

[3]
Apr 6, 2022, 10:00 AM

Every time we have an outgoing transfer, the mouth breathers come out of the wood work to complain and cry about brownell. What they don't realize is that brad's use of the transfer portal has been his brightest spot here at Clemson the quality of outgoing transfers is greatly less than the quality of incoming transfers.

The only 2 that truly disappointed me are Dawes and prosper. Also to clarify, I did not include incoming tanagers that later transferred out of Clemson.

Outgoing transfers

- Dawes: really wish we kept him
- Clyde trapp
-John Newman
- Prosper
- Lynn Kidd
- Trey Jamison
- legend Robert in
- ty Hudson
- Scott spencer
- josh smith
- Cory Stanton
- TJ Sapp
- Bernard Sullivan
- Devin Coleman
- Adonis Filer
- Ibrahim Djambo
-Ajukwa

Incoming transfers

- demarcus Harrison
- Avery Holmes
- marquise reed
- Shelton Mitchell
- Elijah Thomas
- Mark Donnal
- David Skara
- Tevin Mack
- Curran Scott
- Jonathon Baehre
- David Collins

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Re: Brad brownell and transfers

emoji_events [6]
Apr 6, 2022, 10:03 AM

If I were in charge of TNet, I’d at least ask the basketball staffers to buy an R. Or does the athletic department not want to financially support that either?

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Re: Brad brownell and transfers

emoji_events [5]
Apr 6, 2022, 10:06 AM


What they don't realize is that brad's use of the transfer portal has been his brightest spot here at Clemson



His "brightest spot" is the portal and that doesn't tell you something? It would be great for his brightest spot to be winning something.

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Re: Brad brownell and transfers


Apr 6, 2022, 10:12 AM

Are you going on record saying that Clemson ha a bigger transfer problem than most schools?

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Re: Brad brownell and transfers

[4]
Apr 6, 2022, 10:15 AM

Did I say anything like that? Read it again.

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UNC started a transfer


Apr 7, 2022, 12:02 AM

and made it to the championship… kinda nukes your narrative.

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Re: UNC started a transfer


Apr 7, 2022, 10:00 AM

How does UNC's performance relate at all to what I posted above?

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Re: Brad brownell and transfers


Apr 7, 2022, 10:00 AM

Amen, I'm just frustrated. Winning and Winning Consistently is simply Not
part of the equation. One more thing, AD Neff is starting off in a bad spot.
Neff had the best Opportunity you could ask for, to put his stamp on the AD.
But he blew it... So Confidence in him is a question, that need not be.

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Exactly and the record on the court clearly supports that.***

[2]
Apr 6, 2022, 10:10 AM



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Re: Exactly and the record on the court clearly supports that.***

[1]
Apr 6, 2022, 10:15 AM

Did you know that Duke had 4 transfers last year? I thought this was only a Clemson problem....

Every team has transfers. Only looking at outgoing transfers is an insnane way to look at team transfer performance.

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Re: Exactly and the record on the court clearly supports that.***

[2]
Apr 6, 2022, 10:19 AM

I ask you, was the Duke transfers starters, or the next man up behind a starter?

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Re: Exactly and the record on the court clearly supports that.***


Apr 6, 2022, 10:29 AM

Since you are so intrigued, you can look it up.

But since you are obviously too lazy, I will do it for you.

Yes, one transfer started 27 of 54 games the previous 2 years.

Another transfer was a back up that averaged 15 minutes per game. To put that in context, he averaged as much if not more minutes than 3 of 4 of our transfers last year.

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D*mning with faint praise for $1000 Alex***

[3]
Apr 6, 2022, 10:15 AM



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Re: D*mning with faint praise for $1000 Alex***


Apr 6, 2022, 10:17 AM

What's damning about brownell bringing in significantly better players than those who transferred out?

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Dude... nobody, regardless of how we get them

emoji_events [5]
Apr 6, 2022, 10:22 AM

is winning. Nobody is winning. You don't get a trophy for effectively using the transfer portal.

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No...You get one win over .500 three of the last 6 years


Apr 6, 2022, 10:28 AM

**Golf clap**?

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Re: Dude... nobody, regardless of how we get them


Apr 6, 2022, 11:06 AM


is winning. Nobody is winning. You don't get a trophy for effectively using the transfer portal.



What do you mean when you say, "nobody is winning"?

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Brad's average recruiting class ranking is 38th the past

[2]
Apr 6, 2022, 10:27 AM

four years prior to this 2022 class.

Please illustrate how our roster is a net gain in talent over that 38th average ranking in recruiting, and then please illustrate how Brad's team has performed better than that average ranking over that span considering our roster is actually better, as you say, after replacing lost recruits with incoming transfers over this duration.

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Re: Brad's average recruiting class ranking is 38th the past

[1]
Apr 6, 2022, 11:15 AM

I'm not sure you understand the point??

Every team has transfers, including teams like Duke. The goal would be to replace the players that transfer out, with better players. You can either use the portal, or recruit out of high school each year. With players unexpectedly transferring, sometimes your best bet is to go to the portal. Teams like Duke and UNC each had key transfers on their team this year. Everybody is doing it.

Most of brownell's transfers have been to non contributors. In the rare instance that it was a key contributor, brownell has historically recruited as good, if not better players to replace them. Most of the haters said that honor and Dawes sucked all year. Now they are angry that they are transferring. That is also illogical.

The ridiculous overreactions we see every time we have a transfer out are illogical.

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Re: Brad's average recruiting class ranking is 38th the past

[4]
Apr 6, 2022, 11:25 AM

We don't consistently replace them with better players. That can't be proven by any metric and can certainly be argued against by the fact (that my avatar demonstrates) that in 12 years Brownell has 3 outlying seasons. Without those three seasons his tenure has become a flat line at approximately 16 wins a season. A coach cannot be constantly replacing transfers with better players and remain so shockingly mediocre. Your argument is null on its face.

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Re: Brad's average recruiting class ranking is 38th the past

[1]
Apr 6, 2022, 4:11 PM

Ok viztiz.

I'm tired of doing my homework to prove you wrong. I already listed all of the transfers out for you.

Out of all the transfers that have left, how many of them made a significant impact at Clemson prior to transfer OR made a significant impact at the program they transferred to?

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You are relying on anecdotal statements to push this

[3]
Apr 6, 2022, 11:58 AM

improvement through the portal narrative, while I am looking at actual numbers to show your subjective argument doesn't really hold water. What other programs do in this arena matters none, not one iota. The position you pose is that overall OUR program gains via the portal.

Brad has brought in recruits at a 38th national average over the prior four years. That's our roster benchmark - recruits. Did our roster improve past that number with transfers out and transfers in? Doesn't matter who each individual is - that's anecdotal. The 'point' you set out to make was that Brad net gains through the portal. So do we have a better overall roster than that recruiting benchmark when it all washes out? Our on court success - the ultimate measuring stick and a purely numbers driven measure at that - says no.

Whether it's a failure to properly identify players' skills out of high school, to properly recruit positions and sizes of need, a failure to properly develop and connect with those players - it's hard to say. They are measurable numbers though as incoming players, as opposed to 'look, we're better off.' If Brad were a net winner in roster management, pretty simply put we should have better bottom line results than we do. Granted, Brad is on the wrong side of the equation when it comes to coaching end games, so our record could negatively skew our roster strength in that area. But a blanket statement that we improve via the portal when the numbers don't support it, well, it just doesn't float.

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Re: Brad's average recruiting class ranking is 38th the past

[1]
Apr 6, 2022, 12:02 PM

Are you stupid or trolling?

Really hard to tell.

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Lol I don't think you're making the point that you think you are making....***

[3]
Apr 6, 2022, 10:19 AM



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Re: Lol I don't think you're making the point that you think you are making....***


Apr 6, 2022, 10:21 AM

What point did I make? Please explain.

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Transfers have nothing to do with why Brad is a bad coach.***

[3]
Apr 6, 2022, 10:27 AM



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Re: Transfers have nothing to do with why Brad is a bad coach.***

[3]
Apr 6, 2022, 10:36 AM




This.

Try to understand the problem is 12 years of body of work. How many more years do you want from Brad to prove that is all of the above why he won't be bigtime at Clemson?

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Re: Transfers have nothing to do with why Brad is a bad coach.***


Apr 6, 2022, 11:19 AM

nctigs said:




This.

Try to understand the problem is 12 years of body of work. How many more years do you want from Brad to prove that is all of the above why he won't be bigtime at Clemson?



Why are you asking this question? Do you not read my posts? Do you have an extremely bad memory? You know exactly where I stand and that hasn't changed.

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Re: Transfers have nothing to do with why Brad is a bad coach.***


Apr 6, 2022, 11:18 AM

Interesting that you think he is a bad coach. Can you explain why? I've explained why I don't think he is a bad coach in great detail.

Have you ever coached basketball? Did you ever play basketball in high school or beyond?

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Results speak volumes. One win over .500 3 of the last 6...

[3]
Apr 6, 2022, 11:44 AM

years right after having a $64 Million investment in the program. Those aren't the results of a great coach. Perhaps you have playing experience past high school but it was obviously on an average or losing team. No winner would be satisfied with 17-16. It's the epitome of settling and accepting mediocrity.

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Re: Transfers have nothing to do with why Brad is a bad coach.***

[2]
Apr 6, 2022, 11:53 AM


Interesting that you think he is a bad coach. Can you explain why? I've explained why I don't think he is a bad coach in great detail.

Have you ever coached basketball? Did you ever play basketball in high school or beyond?




These types of self-aggrandizing responses are just trash. You do not have to have played or coached a sport to be knowledgeable enough to speak intelligently about it and draw conclusions from watching. This is similar to the common Faceboook response "Well then why don't you go coach the team and see if you can do better".

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Re: Transfers have nothing to do with why Brad is a bad coach.***


Apr 6, 2022, 3:56 PM

Because people say he is a terrible coach and they don't know what they are talking about. They can't have an intelligent conversation about basketball. People say he's a bad coach without giving any good explanation as to why.

He's a good coach. His average ACC finish is way higher than his ACC recruiting rankings .

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Well his use of it has to be great because


Apr 6, 2022, 10:50 AM

Brownell is such a TERRIBLE recruiter.

Brownell shouldn't be lauded for net gains, in your view, from the transfer portal due to players transferring out of the program that stunk, that he recruited, that couldn't play at the ACC level.

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Re: Well his use of it has to be great because


Apr 6, 2022, 11:21 AM

I wouldn't say he's a TERRIBLE recruiter. I would say he is very average and it is his biggest weakness.

His team's outperform their ACC recruiting rankings, that is for sure.

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Your posts demonstrates Brownell's poor recruiting of

[2]
Apr 6, 2022, 11:09 AM

high school players and transfers. He just isn't much of an evaluator of talent, even when given a second opportunity to get it right. He also isn't much of a developer of talent. Reed, Mitchell and Thomas were his best group, but they petered out in their final years after Gabe Devoe went off in the tournament.

The portal SHOULD be a tool that Clemson can take advantage of, but we just can't seem to get over the hump with the poor overall recruiting of high school and transfer players by Brownell and staff.

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Re: Your posts demonstrates Brownell's poor recruiting of


Apr 6, 2022, 11:25 AM


high school players and transfers. He just isn't much of an evaluator of talent, even when given a second opportunity to get it right. He also isn't much of a developer of talent. Reed, Mitchell and Thomas were his best group, but they petered out in their final years after Gabe Devoe went off in the tournament.

The portal SHOULD be a tool that Clemson can take advantage of, but we just can't seem to get over the hump with the poor overall recruiting of high school and transfer players by Brownell and staff.



Yes, I have always said that brownell was a very average recruiter. He has 0 advantages at Clemson, but others before him have recruited better.

They didn't Peter out their senior year. Shelton Mitchell had a bad year and that was mainly due to injuries. Reed averaged 19 ppg and Thomas was solid.

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Re: Your posts demonstrates Brownell's poor recruiting of

[1]
Apr 6, 2022, 11:39 AM

Sorry, but Brad is not average at anything imo. Average would be an improvement. HIs recruiting has been subpar and that you have basically admitted. Ok, How about coaching them up? How about just winning? Well, what's his ACC record look like? ohh, below .500? Hmm that's not good. Feasting on those teams early in the season that are schedule filler dosnt impress. Anyone feeling great about Monte Lee's season start still? Difference is, I bet Monte dosnt get 13 seasons to be less than mediocre. Ok, we appear to be stuck with him for another seasons, fine. But please let's stop with the rhetoric that he hasn't been given X, Y or Z.

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Re: Your posts demonstrates Brownell's poor recruiting of


Apr 6, 2022, 3:29 PM

It's a good thing the old transfer rules required sitting out a year or it's likely DeVoe doesn't stick around for his senior year to lead us to the Sweet 16 like he did. He languished away on the bench for much of his time prior and never had a good opportunity to establish a presence. His departure in the portal today, after say his junior year and 7.1 points per game average, would be considered by many a potential for a net portal gain by what I've been reading on here based on similar player numbers. As it played out, though, he nearly single-handedly brought the term Clemson Grit to life that last season.

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Brad's biggest deficiency compared to Clemson's other

emoji_events [6]
Apr 6, 2022, 2:59 PM

successfu coaches has been his inability to really identify the lesser recruited guy that develops into an outstanding player. Foster had Billy Williams, Larry Nance and Horace Grant, even Mitchell Wiggins who transferred out. Cliff had Elden, who was not considered an elite recruit, Grayson Marshall, and managed to land some very highly recruited guys in Dale Davis, Sharone Wright, Devin Gray, and transfers who were highly rated in HS like Michael Brown, Michael Tate, Sean Tyson and a juco like Whitney. Barnes landed Buck and Boogie in a 4 year period. OP had Hammonds, TBook, Stitt, Mays, Rivers, Grant, who were all 3 star or less, Rivers after his injury.

Brad has been here longer than any of them. He's never landed a true impact, first year player either through recruiting or transfer. His best under the radar recruit, KJ, bolted after his one excellent year. Bloss was a 4 star in several ratings so I don't consider him underrated. Reed was a nice find via transfer, but Thomas and Micthell were both top 100 HS recruits, Thomas top 50, so nothing underrated about them.

The knack of finding underrated players is essential at Clemson. Foster was great at it. Cliff added to core players until disciplinary issues with Tyson, Brown and David Young hurt his momentum, and then the group of Wright, Whitney and Gray just underachieved. The only team in Clemson history to start 3 NBA players. Buck and Boogie under Barnes were huge impact players as freshmen. Hammonds and Booker under OP.

Brad needs two impact transfers this year. He's yet to bring one of those in who were that guy their first year. Collins had some good stats this year but was a huge defensive liability as he never grasped our team defensive concepts. Brian Gregory did a lousy job coaching him at South Fla. He definitely has this year to do it. If he does he can extend his run here yet again. If he doesn't, we cannot go in to year 14 of a BB tenure

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Re: Brad's biggest deficiency compared to Clemson's other


Apr 6, 2022, 3:16 PM

I agree overall, but Elden Campbell started getting a lot of recruiting attention after his the summer before his senior season in the AAU circuit. He outplayed JR Reid and Scott Williams two UNC highly recruits in a couple of events before his senior season, and was a top 100 player. Dale Davis was a top 100-150 type player as well.

James Mays, Oglesby, Grant, Potter and a couple more of the OP recruits were 3 star type top 150 guys like some of Brad's guys. KC Rivers was a top 50 player before his injury before his senior season like you said. Brad has more 4 star players sign as you mentioned.

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Incoming tanagers?


Apr 6, 2022, 3:25 PM

Dude. That’s a tropical bird.

Take a day off or something.

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Thought it was an outlet mall***

[1]
Apr 6, 2022, 4:45 PM



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Re: Brad brownell and transfers

[3]
Apr 6, 2022, 4:28 PM

So the OP makes the point that the guys leaving us really aren't that good and we are getting better guys. But didn't Brad recruit and develop those guys? So is he a poor recruiter or is he worse at player development? Or both?

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Class of '87


That’s just it!

[2]
Apr 6, 2022, 5:05 PM

That’s what we need 12 more years of data points to try and figure out.

It’s such an important decision. It would be a shame
to get rid of the best coach in the country and not even realize the mistake we’re making.

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Re: That’s just it!

[3]
Apr 6, 2022, 6:09 PM

I know. Let's all vote to keep BB just to see if he can continue to coach consistently-inconsistent teams for 12 more seasons and continually finish near the bottom of the ACC. Mountaineer loves these teams that play lights-out (but loose) to Duke in Durham and hack-up hairballs vs lousy GaT and BC teams.

Place your bets, Gentlemen. (Who really cares about having exciting and winning TIGER BBBB teams, anyway?)

Please adjust your sarcasm meters.

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