Bots or lunatics? I'm not really sure these days

Sep 14, 2021, 12:05 PM

Lifelong conservative. History major. Political Science major as well. Been on the internet since it was called Gopher and telnet. Been on message boards since before tigernet existed. And there's always been jerks who post garbage, since day 1. ON gopher, telnet, www, or an app on a phone.

And as a conservative I used to relish in watching the liberals get violent, extreme, and they always ended up showing lunacy eventually. It's like they have something in their mind that won't ever change, and eventually they'll just assume believe a lie, or tell a lie, than change their mind or opinion. But you didn't see this type of response among conservatives. They were measured, and calm, and generally not combative but informative.

That's all out the window these days it seems. Conservatives act no better than liberals anymore on message boards. They will lie, post false information, and then double down on it instead of recant, just like liberals used to do, and still do. Even if it's on a topic I'd LIKE to agree with, if it's a lie I won't accept it. Period. And to me that is just as bad as if a liberal nutjob posted a lie about something I disagree with, which they do as well. It's a matter of principle. And then you see these accounts, (a few)on Tigernet, other websites, and on social media, and you then wonder, is this really even a person, and if so.....yikes. And even on conservative websites, forums, etc. where you used to see reasoned responses, you now see misinformation, quotes out of context, flat out lies, and anger. The threat of socialism is about as overblown as the threat of covid is downplayed. Honestly a shuffling old man is better suited to run the country than any extreme ideologue from either side, or God forbid a populist like an AOC or a Trump. We subconsciously elected a dinosaur for fear of the new crowd.

But then you get back to the question of the users of these websites/social media accounts. They will post lie after lie, and even if you call them out on it, they have absolutely no remorse, and actually get angry and double down, or ignore you altogether. And are these "people" bots, or real? You know these accounts too. Here they pop up and then disappear. Like NJDEV....remember him. IS/was he even real? And they post links from websites that are known to be full of false or misleading information. And even when those websites are shut down, others pop up. ON Twitter there are numerous accounts that are just odd names, that post this garbage all day long. Heck, locally there was a social media rumor of a kid going to shoot up a school, and they added officers and then the rumor was schools were on lockdown and there WAS a shooting. ALL FALSE. School district and police had to waste time telling everyone it was false.

SIL, bless her heart, went ballistic about some social media rumor (she verified it because her Facebook friends also heard about it) that they were teaching transgender stuff to 5th graders at an elementary school in our district. SIL's Facebook friend was a friend of the father of a kid in the classroom, so it WAS real. And you can't convince her otherwise. ONE "newspaper" picked up on it, and it's a shady story, but it did name the father of the child in the class. He's a local pastor. Go to his Facebook page and he's all Ward Cleaver mixed with a little Billy Graham. Go to his OTHER Facebook page and he's posting racist, nasty stuff, mixed with Qanon garbage. Or is it even him or is he being set up? Who knows. To date there is no evidence any of it actually happened. And only when these rumors get big then schools have to respond, like the shooting rumors just this morning.

Just a very sad state. People are being lied to left AND right and I guess people are responding equally both ways. It's almost as if this is by design. Lady who owns a local semi-popular business here in town, was vocal about being against the mask mandates last summer. Went ballistic at a town council meeting. Well, FFWD to January 6th and there she was at the Capitol. Her entire Facebook page is just like I explained above, a litany of Qanon garbage. False election stories, false recount stories, deep state conspiracies, and covid denial misinformation. Then when asked about her involvement in January 6th by a local reporter as she was called out, she was all heels. She was there celebrating her patriotism, enjoying the crowd, she never saw or knew anyone stormed the Capital, and it was just a celebration of Trump's Presidency. Well, no, her Facebook says something QUITE different. She deleted the pictures and posts that showed she was more involved than she said she was. But this is what I'm talking about, and it's scary as #### when "rational" people are misled. Much worse than the looney liberals who have been around for decades. You don't want a looney right. Really, we won't survive that as a nation.

I disagree with Sun Tzu on this one issue. He said "“Keep your friends close; keep your enemies closer.” I disagree. I imagine Jesus and Julius Caesar probably would as well. I say "keep your enemies close, and your friends closer." An enemy will attack you from the front and you will expect it. A friend will stab you in the back when you're not looking.

Anyway, I refuse to change. Those of you who know me know I'm consistent. I haven't become a liberal, or changed my politics one bit. I supported leaving Afghanistan, and Biden screwed that up royally. I oppose Biden's vaccine mandates, with the possible exception of federal workers, as that is more under his control. Private businesses, he has no standing, without Congress acting. And Congress WILL NOT act on this. Private businesses are free to enact vaccine mandates IF THEY WISH, but Biden can't force it IMO. And I in no way support my state, no matter who is governor, taking power away from local towns, cities, counties, and school districts to be forced to follow a state mandate, on ANYTHING. They could slip a "proviso" into the state budget banning the teaching of transgender issues and CRT into a budget, and I'd oppose it JUST as much as one mandating both. It shouldn't BE THERE, period. The purpose of a budget is to pay for the bills voted into law in the legislature, not to enact new laws that would never stand a floor vote. It's a principle and I'm firm on it. Having someone use a mechanism or tactic I disagree with to force a policy I do agree with, I'm against that as much as using the same tactic to force a policy I disagree with. This applies to state and federal budgets and spending bills.

One day people will learn our problems are not political. And that will be the day when politics no longer matter. We don't want to go there. Please, America don't sell our freedoms to get your way. Today this applies to the right and the left. Don't storm the Capitol. Don't forbid masks in schools. Don't force the tobacco age to be a national law through appropriations. Don't force anything into policy based on a budget stipulation. Use a budget to fund what has been duly voted on and passed in a democratic process, and nothing else. And most importantly, love your neighbor. They need it right now.

Hopefully someday soon, a court at some level, will differentiate between a law passed by a democratic vote in a legislative body, from a budget (also a law) which is passed with provisos and stipulations that were never debated in any democratic process, but was nonetheless passed to fund the laws that were debated and voted on. Because there IS a difference. This is the main area, and mechanism, where freedom has been lost in the past two+ decades. It is an evil, flawed, and unconstitutional process IMO, but I'm not a judge. There used to be a line item veto, and it's no surprise that during the brief time in which a President enjoyed that power, before being taken by the Supreme Court....THAT was our last balanced federal budget. The only years of MY lifetime when there has been one. That's not a coincidence.

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That's telling. When that failed, they then reconvened and that's when the compromises flowed and our Constitution was born. And ever since, the general direction has been the general direction they ORIGINALLY sought to avoid.

https://guides.loc.gov/federalist-papers/full-text

Research Guides: Federalist Papers: Primary Documents in American History: Full Text of The Federalist Papers

The Federalist Papers were a series of essays written by Alexander Hamilton, James Madison, and John Jay under the pen name

https://www.gutenberg.org/files/147/147-h/147-h.htm

Generally, the more power you reserve among the states, the less power you concentrate federally, the more diverse the laws, the happier overall people are (Whole reason for the 10th Amendment, which is largely ignored today). Force one size fits all in a diverse democracy with inordinate federal powers and authority, you seed discontent at higher proportions among the people. Likewise, at the state level, the more powers and control you reserve to cities, towns, and counties, and the less you concentrate in the state capital, the more contentment (overall) the people are in the diverse state. It's the "republic" part of the republican party. It's not just a catchy name, it means something and always has. Same for democracy. Large, and especially diverse democracies throughout history have always failed, and that's because even though there is a popular vote, the tyranny of the majority seeds discontent, if the source of control is centralized. We love democracy, but democracy is a way of voting and passing laws. It is not a structure, but a way a government functions. A republic is a structural mechanism to distribute authority to minimize discontent. We tried to combine the good principles of a popular vote, with a decentralized STRUCTURE in government, to allow for representation, while keeping control and powers diversified across federal, state, and local levels. You had the Federalists and the Democratic-Republicans, those were the original two parties. They split much along the lines we have today. One was a rural population, mostly farmers, very religious, and had much more in common with republicans today. The Federalists were more urban, business owners, non-agrarian, educated, and were much more like democrats today. The Federalists profited more and were more successful with more centralized power, whereas the Democratic Republicans had different interests that did not profit from a centralized federal government.

Bots or lunatics? I'm not really sure these days

Re: Bots or lunatics? I'm not really sure these days

Re: Bots or lunatics? I'm not really sure these days

Re: Bots or lunatics? I'm not really sure these days

A wreck. Something they feared and tried mightily to avoid.

Re: Bots or lunatics? I'm not really sure these days

They erred initially the side of a republic

Re: They erred initially the side of a republic

When the GOP realized hate was an effective platform, you

Re: Bots or lunatics? I'm not really sure these days

It’s almost as if this is by design

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