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Ambassador [6046]
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BigXII is our ONLY option.
May 2, 2012, 9:58 AM
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It's our only option if you want to stay relevant on the national football stage.
Heck, it's our only option if you want to stay relevant with Sakerlina in this rivalry.
Let's look at the facts:
- The BCS IS moving to a 4-team playoff where the participants will be decided using RPI. The addition of 'Cuse and Pitt will only put the conference's RPI further away from the playoff.
- The BCS AQ status is going away. No longer will any ACC champion be guaranteed a spot nor will the conference be guaranteed the big BCS cash payout. Every year since the BCS was created the ACC has received that big multi-million dollar BCS check that it then splits amongst everyone. With that gone in some years, that money we've come to rely on will VANISH.
- In addition to the loss of the BCS money, the ACC won't see a big increase in ESPN TV money. Heck, ESPN and the ACC are no longer negotiating a contract because ESPN doesn't want to pay the conference what Swofford thinks it's worth. Unlike other conference where ESPN has been eager to write a check, this deal is headed for arbitration.
- The only saving grace for the ACC is if ND joins. That isn't happening. Swofford has rug burn on his knees from his visits to South Bend and yet always comes back empty handed.
- At some point someone will defect from the ACC. That first team will reap the rewards while leaving the other football schools in the ACC scrambling to jump ship. So it's only smart to be looking out for number one.
- The SEC doesn't want Clemson. Politics, TV markets, etc just make it too much of a hassle to sell to the existing 14 schools. The BigXII on the other hand seems to be ready to welcome Clemson with open arms.
------
So the choice is clear, if we want to remain relevant on the football stage and in the checkbook, the ACC is not our future. Sure, I'll miss those super awesome road trips to Durham and College Park, but I'll trade those gladly for home games vs teams with fan bases who give two chits about football.
Sign me up. Team BigXII
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CU Guru [1620]
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I agree!!
May 2, 2012, 10:03 AM
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The ones on here saying no are the same ones that are happy with the current "pecking" order in the ACC and with the new financial success of our feathered friends. A change has to be made. Make it easy, add FSU, Clemson and maybe ECU or Louisville. That makes it: Clemson, WVa, FSU and ECU/Louisville on one side..
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Orange Blooded [3573]
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If you are going to do that, why go to the Big 12
May 2, 2012, 10:06 AM
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Just create an entirely new conference? 2 8 team divisions isn't a conference its a conglomeration.
If we are dreaming, lets dream like that UGA blogger that had us, UGA, GT, Auburn, Tenn, SC etc.
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CU Guru [1620]
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So you are happy in the ACC??
May 2, 2012, 10:09 AM
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Do you think they care about Clemson? No its not called creating a new conference, its called breaking it into two sides like most major conferences are and actually caring about football unlike the conference you would like to continue to pander to. Its time to move on because we are starting to get left behind financially and it will create a big disadvantage
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Orange Blooded [3573]
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In some ways yes, in some ways not at all
May 2, 2012, 10:19 AM
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but I have a number of friends who are big A&M, Oklahoma, Kansas and Missouri fans. Lets just say the grass isn't always greener. Personally I don't care what conference we are in as long as it suits Clemson (and my) interests. There is nothing special about a conference.
I personally don't think that a 16 team conference will ultimately be sustainable. You will always have one side pull the weight of the other. If the SEC goes to 16, don't you think after a certain amount of time the West is finally going to say that they want more money since they are pulling the freight on the gridiron and Bama and LSU is wants to keep Kentucky and Vandy from dragging them down.
Plus a playoff system is going to minimize the conference influence over the bowl revenue. That is a good thing....Assuming that we can get the ACC to go back to an 8 game schedule.
A better option for now would be to actually take back the ACC office and get some real leadership in there. If Miami, FSU, Clemson and VT get on the national stage again then there is no real reason other than the boob in blue in the ACC office that the ACC can't be raking in the dollars like others.
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Legend [18133]
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Too late to salvage the ACC by changing commishes, I'm
May 2, 2012, 11:39 AM
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afraid. Swofturd has already done irreconcilable damage to what was a potentially good conference. It's not like we can undo the BC, Pitt, 'Cuse fiasco nor catch the SECheat in TV revenues. If we stay in the ACC, we're totally stuck with the crap we've got.
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CU Medallion [51524]
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Ambassador [6046]
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Creating a new conference is virtually impossible.
May 2, 2012, 10:12 AM
[ in reply to If you are going to do that, why go to the Big 12 ] |
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It's tough enough to get schools to take a leap of faith to switch much less get a bunch of schools to leave and join together in something that has no tv contracts, no leadership, no anything.
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Commissioner [942]
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That UGA blogger had free time on his hands and so wrote
May 2, 2012, 10:23 AM
[ in reply to If you are going to do that, why go to the Big 12 ] |
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a blog out of his a$$. That has about as much chance of happening as TNetters have of getting a date with Katherine Heigle, Scarlette Johannsen and Diane Lane.
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Orange Blooded [3573]
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About as much chance as Clemson and FSU
May 2, 2012, 10:25 AM
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having enough influence to create "Big 12 East" and still not get screwed by Texas.
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Orange Blooded [3908]
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"Hey morons"? Really? What are you...10?***
May 2, 2012, 10:04 AM
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Ambassador [6046]
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Par for the course on TigerNet***
May 2, 2012, 10:05 AM
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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Re: Par for the course on TigerNet***
May 2, 2012, 5:59 PM
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yep and you're part of Tnet
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All-In [37023]
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Ambassador [6046]
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Can't say I didn't consider it.***
May 2, 2012, 10:11 AM
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Fan [82]
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What started this up again?
May 2, 2012, 10:08 AM
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I miss something?
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Ambassador [6046]
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Once the BCS wrapped up discussions last week...
May 2, 2012, 10:10 AM
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The chatter on the internet from various sources got very loud this week regarding conference expansion.
Now that the BCS is set with the playoff, the conferences can strategize to maximize themselves and their wallets.
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110%er [5627]
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I still say that Clemson and FSU end up in the SEC ...***
May 2, 2012, 10:09 AM
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Commissioner [942]
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How?
May 2, 2012, 10:29 AM
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The current members will NOT take a pay cut. The networks won't pay them enough to compensate for cutting the pie 2 extra slices in markets that the SEC is already in. And besides, if the SEC was to expand to 16, they would want to increase the pay of its current members, not just keep it the same.
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110%er [6057]
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I think at some point regional appeal could win out.
May 2, 2012, 11:16 AM
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I get the slices but with a 14 team conference the vote could easily go 11-3 in favor of adding FSU and Clemson in the SEC. I don't know that the schools in the SEC who already share a state really care what SC, UF, and UGA think about adding schools from those states.
Just my 2 cents.
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Legend [18133]
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Re: I think at some point regional appeal could win out.
May 2, 2012, 11:43 AM
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I've heard that Slive insists on unanimity in all votes affecting the conference.
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Freshman [4]
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Re: I think at some point regional appeal could win out.
May 3, 2012, 12:34 AM
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A few points if I may. Slive only wants the final vote to be unanimous (the official vote that takes place after the one with differences of opinion).
If you want into the SEC there are a couple of things to do. Lobby your state legislature to make sure U.S.C. will not vote against you. F.S.U. should do the same. State political power controls state purse strings. Florida and U.S.C. will go along. Second, the only exclusion to teams from within the footprint was for adds #13 & #14 because the SEC renegotiation clause called for additions that brought 3 new markets. So far there is no new clause to the same effect. Third, accepting Clemson and F.S.U. will not keep the SEC from accepting N.C.State and Va Tech if that should come to pass. 4 super conferences will have to accommodate 72 - 80 teams and they all know that. That means each conference will be either 18 or 20 teams strong. 18 is not a problem there would be three divisions of 6 with the 3 divisional champs and 1 at large in the conference playoffs. And finally, most SEC folks, epsecially UGA & Auburn folks, I know would love to have both of you in. You are more of an SEC fit than anybody else would be and everybody here knows it. And finally we would be fools to let the Big 12 into our footprint and they know that too. But you can't be accepted if you don't apply!
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Commissioner [942]
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But that does not answer the question about the money?
May 2, 2012, 12:19 PM
[ in reply to I think at some point regional appeal could win out. ] |
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Do you really think that Alabama, Auburn, Ole Miss, UT, Miss State and Vandy would be willing to take a cut in pay to bring in Clemson and FSU? You can't seriously believe that.
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110%er [6057]
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Well if they "have" to expand I think they need to consider
May 2, 2012, 12:56 PM
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the future of the league and I think FSU and Clemson would be better long term fits. The money will still come. Obviously, I can't predict who they would add, but there are choices much worse in my mind than FSU and Clemson.
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Commissioner [942]
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Unfortunately, the SEC is in a position financially that
May 2, 2012, 1:02 PM
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they can wait out things and get who they want. I'm told that they have their sights on Virginia Tech and NC State. If they can't get those 2, they will stand pat. That information might buy you a cup of coffee.
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Orange Blooded [2397]
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Re: Unfortunately, the SEC is in a position financially that
May 2, 2012, 1:47 PM
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Thinking about TV market and NCSU...
NCSU would certainly bring in a higher % of NC TVs, but Clemson would bring in a significant % of the folks in western NC and Charlotte. NCSU would have Raleigh and eastern NC, but really, there are pretty slim pickins in eastern NC anyway (esp. with ECU is out there.
Nationally, Clemson will draw MUCH better. So would the national coverage of Clemson offset NCSU’s advantage in NC? I dunno.
Basketball would be a bit different, but I am not sure how significantly that figures into the SEC's math.
It just doesn’t seem like a slam dunk for the SEC to go after NCSU over Clemson. I think the Heels would be a different story. They own the NC market, but they may be less willing to leave. 'Course the SEC may not want another school with questionable ethics!
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Commissioner [942]
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Re: Unfortunately, the SEC is in a position financially that
May 2, 2012, 4:37 PM
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If this was the 1980s, we would definitely have a slam dunk advantage over NC State, nationally. I think we still have an advantage there. But I don't think it's anywhere near as wide as it was 25 years ago. The networks look at the state that the school resides in for potential market. They are not going to look at Clemson and think, "Hey, they can get us a lot of the North Carolina market".
Also, as someone else mentioned, Slive is said to want unanimous agreement to bring in a school. With the whispered "gentleman's agreement" between SCar, UGA, UF and UK, I don't see anyway that Clemson could overcome that opposition.
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Orange Blooded [2397]
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Re: Unfortunately, the SEC is in a position financially that
May 3, 2012, 1:01 PM
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Fair points. Although I do think the difference in national interest btwn Clemson and NCSU is still significant and would play in the math. It certainly is not as big as it was in the 80's, but when you see things like ESPN promos, nationally televised games etc, I think it is still there to a large degree.
As for the "gentleman's agreement", is there any reliable documentation relating to it? Not trying to slam or shut down discussion, but I do wonder how legitimate that is.
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110%er [5627]
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To keep the Big 12 out of the Southeast ....***
May 2, 2012, 1:23 PM
[ in reply to How? ] |
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Commissioner [942]
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If they cared about other conferences in the southeast,
May 2, 2012, 4:40 PM
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FSU, Clemson, Georgia Tech and Miami would be in the SEC now.
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Legend [16213]
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It hasn't made sense yet to do so, but the time is coming.
May 2, 2012, 11:21 PM
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Except for Ga. Tech and Miami, which don't fit the SEC brand of sports.
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All-Pro [665]
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Calling someone a "moron" when trying to make a point is
May 2, 2012, 10:09 AM
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what we call ad hominem... and the person doing so should be afforded little credibility.
An ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"), short for argumentum ad hominem, is an attempt to negate the truth of a claim by pointing out a negative characteristic or belief of the person supporting it.[1] Ad hominem reasoning is normally described as a logical fallacy.
Ad hominem arguments work via the halo effect, a human cognitive bias in which the perception of one trait is influenced by the perception of an unrelated trait, e.g. treating an attractive person as more intelligent or more honest. People tend to see others as tending to all good or tending to all bad. Thus, if you can attribute a bad trait to your opponent, others will tend to doubt the quality of their arguments, even if the bad trait is irrelevant to the arguments.
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110%er [6937]
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Re For you scholars taking notes in Latin, that is called
May 2, 2012, 12:26 PM
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Maximus fibbus.
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Orange Blooded [4261]
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It's also called copying from Wikipedia...***
May 2, 2012, 6:40 PM
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Rock Defender [54]
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Absolutely correct!! The "Cheese" is being moved away
May 2, 2012, 10:09 AM
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right from under our noses and if CUAD doesn't react and get to the Big 12 (along with FSU) the quest to the top becomes even more difficult...maybe not impossible...but definitely more difficult...
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Commissioner [942]
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Ober gets it. It's time to take our rightful seat on the Big
May 2, 2012, 10:20 AM
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12 train. Those of you who say "Get over it. We're not going to the Big 12", are delusional. If you get your way, you are assigning Clemson to 2nd class status to USuCk for generations.
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Orange Blooded [3573]
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Watch out for the sky falling, I hear its heavy
May 2, 2012, 10:31 AM
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SC's success isn't limited to "SEC Money." They are on a good roll because the state of SC has put out some studs and they stayed home. They are on a good roll because they finally have a decent AD.
SEC money isn't helping Ole Miss, Miss State, Vandy, Kentucky, shoot...UT and Fla.
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Commissioner [942]
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It's like everything else in life. Money is
May 2, 2012, 10:45 AM
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no guarantee of success. But it increases the odds in your favor. That's no sky falling. That's FACT!!!!
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CU Medallion [67659]
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lets say we could get comparable money to the SEC for that
May 2, 2012, 10:25 AM
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its not like the distance and travel for non revenue sports would eat that up and still leave us several million behind each year. Plus the fact recruits would love to play places a thousand miles away where their parents would only see them on tv. Yeah it is a real success formula. Brilliant
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Ambassador [6046]
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Travel will cost an extra $2M in the BigXII
May 2, 2012, 10:31 AM
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The team flies everywhere except for Atlanta and Tobacco Road as it is. $2M is a drop in the bucket compared to the increased TV revenue of the B12
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Orange Blooded [3573]
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Tell that to the baseball, soccer, track, golf etc
May 2, 2012, 10:33 AM
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They don't fly. In the Big 12 they have to.
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Ambassador [6046]
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You tell me...
May 2, 2012, 10:34 AM
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Would you rather play a baseball game after a 2 hour plane ride or an 8 hour bus trip?
No brainer.
that $2M increase is for the entire athletic department.
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Orange Blooded [3573]
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Where have you seen that 2 million number
May 2, 2012, 10:37 AM
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That seems incredibly low to have EVERY team fly to every road game.
When there were rumors of GT going to the Big 10 the estimates were an additional 8-10 million in travel. The reason SDSU didn't go full Big East was travel costs and the Big East was about double what they were currently making.
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Member [25]
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Re: Where have you seen that 2 million number
May 2, 2012, 10:41 AM
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ACC football is unsustainable when they switch to the 4 team playoff. The conference will be fighting for a TV deal with local cable access by the time it's all said and done.
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Orange Blooded [3573]
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How do you figure? Playoffs will hurt the conference power
May 2, 2012, 11:09 AM
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I think the BCS going to a playoff will limit the conference power and need to affiliate with the prettiest dance partner. The only place that conference matters to this extreme is D1A football. In basketball conference name doesn't matter to any of the teams in "major conferences." Other than the automatic bid, its all done on RPI.
If participation drives the $$s from the playoff then the conference is essentially left out in the cold. Right now the conference gets their cut first so it does matter within the conference how it is distributed. The conferences are tied in into the BCS and so the schools are tied in that way. There can't be conference contracts with a playoff if there are no automatic bids.
If anything a playoff allows schools to finally stand on their own two legs....as long as your conference doesn't screw you by making you play 9 conference games.
In D1AA and below, conference doesn't really matter for any of the playoffs other than the 1 tie in.
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Member [25]
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Re: How do you figure? Playoffs will hurt the conference power
May 2, 2012, 11:13 AM
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It's only going to be a 4 team playoff, based on an RPI. Over the past ten years, the ACC would have made it to the playoff only once. With the playoff, the ACC's absence will sink its reputation even further. The conference will be fighting for a TV deal on local cable access by the time it's all said and done.
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CU Guru [1555]
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And how many undefeated or 1 loss ACC teams were there?
May 2, 2012, 12:55 PM
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Had Clemson been undefeated this season, we would have been playing LSU for the MNC. If there is a 4 team playoff and we go undefeated or even one loss we will be in one of the four teams. Screw worrying about conference affiliation until we can win our games. If Clemson is undefeated or had one (respectable) loss during the regular season and was hung out to dry, THEN I'll start worrying about what conference we are in.
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Ambassador [6046]
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Remember not all ACC teams are local.
May 2, 2012, 10:43 AM
[ in reply to Where have you seen that 2 million number ] |
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Essentially the only true changes in travel is switching Tobacco Road for Texas. Everybody already flies to Miami, BC, etc. So those expenses won't be much different flying to Iowa instead of Miami.
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110%er [6208]
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Can't understand wanting to move to the Big 12...
May 2, 2012, 10:44 AM
[ in reply to You tell me... ] |
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Why?
So that we can go to a conference where we have absolutely nothing in common with any of the other schools?
So every road trip is either a 2-hour flight or 12-hour road trip away?
So we can guarantee our position as an also-ran to Texas and Oklahoma every year?
What are the advantages? We have three road-trips to Texas every year?
If we go undefeated in the ACC, we'll play for the national championship. We would have this year, we will in the future. The ACC is strong enough to get us there. Beat FSU, beat Miami or Va Tech, beat the other teams you should beat, and win the ACCCG... You're in the NC game.
Now, a move to the SEC might not be a smart move from a competetive standpoint, but it's certainly exciting when you consider the opponents, the road trips, and the overall feel and intensity of that conference. I can understand wanting to go to the SEC. I don't get what's so great about a move to the Big 12, though.
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Commissioner [942]
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Re: Can't understand wanting to move to the Big 12...
May 2, 2012, 10:49 AM
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I think going to Texas and Oklahoma would be fine and exciting trips. I think the atmosphere at those venues would be superb.
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CU Medallion [51524]
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Orange Blooded [4947]
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Re: Hey Morons, the BigXII is our ONLY option.
May 2, 2012, 10:26 AM
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FSU and Clemson have a lot of power in this situation. Currently they are the most attractive options for any conference other than ND. I believe currently we are in a state of waiting. It looks like the 2014 season will be the deadline because of the new BCS deal.
FSU and Clemson have made it clear that the option of leaving is on the table by talking down the by out of the ACC to 20M. Currently the ACC has not finalized a contract and the ND situation is still on the fence because of the playoff talk. If ND gets their way they will remain independent, if not they will be forced to join a conference. Even though the Big 10 is closer it sounds like the ACC is the best option for ND based on other factors.
So now it is just a matter of time before the pieces start to fall into place. If the ACC lands ND and/or a large TV contract, everyone stays put. If the ACC is not able to work out a lucrative deal, Clemson and FSU explore other options as a pair.
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CU Medallion [67659]
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Huh, talking down?
May 2, 2012, 10:31 AM
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my impression was we caved in and rubber stamped a move to got from $4-5 million buyout up to $20 million. Please explain your logic here
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Ambassador [6046]
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Tobacco Road wanted a $50M buyout.
May 2, 2012, 10:33 AM
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$20M was considered reasonable compared to that.
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CU Medallion [67659]
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Original buyout before $20M was $10-13M
May 2, 2012, 10:35 AM
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according to dinnich. I've never seen $50 bandied about. not to say it wasnt but I've not seen it
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CU Guru [1053]
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Re: Original buyout before $20M was $10-13M
May 2, 2012, 12:31 PM
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I remember it being reported much higher than $20 million as well. For some reason the number $35 is sticking in my head, though, not $50.
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Orange Blooded [3573]
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The original proposal was higher than 30 million
May 2, 2012, 10:34 AM
[ in reply to Huh, talking down? ] |
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it might have even been 2 years worth of revenue. Clemson and FSU got it down to the 20 million.
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Commissioner [942]
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Re: Hey Morons, the BigXII is our ONLY option.
May 2, 2012, 10:35 AM
[ in reply to Re: Hey Morons, the BigXII is our ONLY option. ] |
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How much does NBC pay Notre Dame for televising its games?
And I have to wonder, what would be Notre Dame's price for joining the ACC? Their ego makes Texas look like Dale Carnegie graduates. The question is would Notre Dame be willing to come in as an "equal partner"? I'm not sure.
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Orange Blooded [4095]
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Penn State AND UGA to the ACC!
May 2, 2012, 10:41 AM
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I predict, remember you heard it first here on TigerNet!
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Oculus Spirit [82972]
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LOL, dream on. Anyone who thinks this is a legitmate option
May 2, 2012, 10:45 AM
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is a moron. The ACC has recently gained two great universities with long academic and sports traditions.
Teams aren't jumping off the ACC's ship but on to it.
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CU Guru [1486]
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Re: LOL, dream on. Anyone who thinks this is a legitmate option
May 2, 2012, 11:26 AM
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Lol thank god for sarcasm. I almost thought you said Pitt and Cuse were good adds.
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Oculus Spirit [82972]
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Legend [18539]
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Will you be ready for the 11:00AM EST games at Iowa State
May 2, 2012, 10:50 AM
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Baylor and Texas Tech? That's what will happen when Clemson visits those schools. It's a logistical nightmare especially when changing time zones is involved.
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CU Guru [1321]
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That would be 10:00am CT, so it won't happen....
May 2, 2012, 9:56 PM
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But, to go along with your position, I don't think one hour makes a big difference either way. I'm in the central time zone and have been going back and forth to the east for years and it is no big deal. Secondly, Baylor, TTU, and Iowa State may not be the most appealing road trips, but it isn't any worse than Duke, Wake Forest, and upcoming trips to Syracuse. The only thing going for Duke & WFU is that they are close enough for a good Clemson contingent to attend. However, if the Big XII will net us $4-8 million per year in their league.....call the field painter and paint a Big XII logo over the ACC on Frank Howard Field.
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Legend [15730]
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I lament the devaluation of the word "fact". Can we make up
May 2, 2012, 10:57 AM
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a new word for Tigernet? It's an opinion that an poster REALLY believes. An opinufact?
Anyway, everything you said is just your opinion. Which is fine. I think it's wrong. It's short sighted. The idea of moving to the Big 12 is laughable. The idea that we're going to leave the ACC because it's run by UNC to go play in a conference that's run by Texas is just hilarious. And don't give me "Texas at least cares about football." Texas cares about Texas.
Leaving a conference that has FSU, Clemson, GT, VT and Miami to join a conference that we have zero history in and whose closest rival is a 16 hour drive away would have to be one of the biggest bone-head moves ever. Get rid of John Swofford, get a professional, unbiased conference commissioner in place and away we go. This conference has all the weapons to be great. I'm much happier being in a conference that I can drive to six or so away games in four hours, and whose fans I actually interact with in real life.
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Member [25]
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Re: I lament the devaluation of the word "fact". Can we make up
May 2, 2012, 11:02 AM
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1. This conference is nowhere near being "great."
2. Your ability to drive to six or so away games has nothing to do with the football program reaching its potential, which is what matters most.
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CU Guru [1714]
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Re: I lament the devaluation of the word "fact". Can we make up
May 2, 2012, 11:04 AM
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what does it matter if we grow successful but can't "represent" at away games? that will make bowl selection less favorable for us year in and year out, which increases our revenue in addition to TV deals.
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Member [25]
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Re: I lament the devaluation of the word "fact". Can we make up
May 2, 2012, 11:08 AM
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"representing" at away games have little to do with bowl selection.
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CU Guru [1714]
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False
May 4, 2012, 9:59 AM
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bowls look at how well you travel and take that into consideration when they chose whom to invite to play in their game. a better team that doesn't travel well will not be selected over a slightly less talented team whose fans travel. it's a proven fact
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Legend [15730]
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Again, both your opinion and I disagree with both.
May 2, 2012, 11:18 AM
[ in reply to Re: I lament the devaluation of the word "fact". Can we make up ] |
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1. This conference is nowhere near being "great."
Yes it is. I'm not saying it IS great. I'm saying that it has the capacity to BE great. FSU, Miami, GT, Clemson and VT in football all have the capacity to be great, and NCSU, UNC, UVA, Maryland and Pitt all have the capacity to be strong as well. All good potential teams. The problem is that we don't have that marquee premier team like the SEC does every year. No one is talking about what a dog Tennessee and Florida became because Alabama and LSU were so good. In basketball we have UNC, Duke, Syracuse, Pitt, Maryland, NCSU and Wake. All have traditions of success, and then teams like Clemson and FSU are performing well recently too. Excellent baseball, men's and women's soccer, women's basketball, lacrosse...I know you don't care, and maybe it doesn't matter, but it's just true that our "olympic" sports are strong as well.
2. Your ability to drive to six or so away games has nothing to do with the football program reaching its potential, which is what matters most.
Disagree. Tradition matters. Fans matter. Connecting with the community matters. I'm not willing to join the PAC 12 in order to make an extra two million a year. I'm not willing to change the uniforms to black and pink because a study shows that we play better in that color combo. I'm not interested in a program that "bends the rules" like South Carolina just so we can be more relevant. I want a team I can be proud of. Sure, I'd love to win it all, but not if it meant not knowing a single rival fan, never being able to go to away games (and when I do, being with 500 Clemson fans instead of 5,000), answering to Texas...blech. Garbage.
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Member [25]
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Re: Again, both your opinion and I disagree with both.
May 2, 2012, 11:21 AM
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This is a great post imo:
cobbcounty
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Who knows if we go to the Big 12, but, if we do, [1]
Posted: May 2, 2012 11:17 AM
Reply
then you can just sit those trips out and enjoy the 4-5 home conference games we'll have every year, the 2-3 home non-conference games we'll have every year, the traditional trip to Tallahassee every other year, the trip to Morgantown every other year, the trip to Cluckerland every other year, the trip to a cool city like Austin every now and then, the trip to Dallas every now and then, and the trip to see a legendary college football program OU in Norman every now and then.
Just skip the lame trips to the Little Apple and to Lubbock and you'll be fine with all of the above options. I promise.
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CU Guru [1878]
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Re: Again, both your opinion and I disagree with both.
May 2, 2012, 11:57 AM
[ in reply to Again, both your opinion and I disagree with both. ] |
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This was a fantastic comment. Why is this opinion so unpopular around here? Why does everyone on TNET think the entire athletic program should revolve around the football program's success?
Give it a couple of years, that 4-team tournament will become 8 or 16 teams and including the ACC champion, anyway.
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Rock Defender [53]
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You nailed it. "Get rid of John Swofford, get a professional
May 2, 2012, 5:06 PM
[ in reply to I lament the devaluation of the word "fact". Can we make up ] |
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"Get rid of John Swofford, get a professional, unbiased conference commissioner in place and away we go."
Swofford is incompetent boob and needs to go. Get a real commissioner and the ACC could be strong.
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Orange Blooded [2507]
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Wasn't the Big 12 unstable just a little while ago?
May 2, 2012, 11:00 AM
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Texas has that conference by the balls and any school that is apart of it as well. We'd be trading UNC/Duke for Texas, which is not a better soultion imo.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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only if you think losing missouri, nebraska, tamu, colorado
May 2, 2012, 11:02 AM
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makes them unstable.
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Legend [16120]
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No, unstable is adding 2nd rate teams from the Big East...Oh
May 2, 2012, 12:35 PM
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wait...
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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i know
May 2, 2012, 12:50 PM
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losing those 4 teams from the BigTejas+11 was a good thing.
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Legend [16120]
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Couldn't be worse than adding 2nd rate Big East teams...
May 2, 2012, 12:56 PM
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We keep bringing more knives to the gunfight...
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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well, if their traditions, money and universities are 2nd
May 2, 2012, 1:00 PM
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rate, not sure where that would leave clemson.
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Legend [16120]
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Has either team been relevant since we skimmed the best of
May 2, 2012, 1:04 PM
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that conference 7/8 years ago?
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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when was clemson relevant in any sport besides rowing and
May 2, 2012, 1:06 PM
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women's track?
you really want to go down this path? you want to talk about how many years ou and tejas walked in the desert without sniffing a title?
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Legend [16120]
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What path? Do YOU want to compare the recent football
May 2, 2012, 1:15 PM
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records of OU and UT to Pitt and Syracuse? Both have played for a title in the past 5 years...Pitt's best year this century includes an OT win over Furman and a double digit loss to UConn...And as far as our relevance, we won the conference last year!
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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yep, we won the conference, i'm proud of our boys.
May 2, 2012, 1:30 PM
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we finished in the top 25 and won 10 games in a 14 game schedule.
woohoo! not sure that qualifies as relevance on the national level.
perception is clemson is known more for our inability than our ability; hopefully we change that soon.
syracuse and pittsburgh[the big east] turned down $1.2bil from espn to join the acc; 85% of that was for football.
you might not like them, might not be able to see past next year, but long-term stability is a premium.
big12 has shown none, the acc on the other hand continues to expand.
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Legend [16120]
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Winning a BCS conference is not relevant on the national
May 2, 2012, 3:41 PM
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level? Who knew?And as far as looking past next year, if you think stockpiling basketball school adds stability, take a look around...See the SEC adding any private schools? The Big 10? We've added 3...The SEC and Big 10 went after state schools with big football...We're still hoping Miami makes some sort of comeback...Yeah, I'M short-sighted...When everybody else was stockpiling guns and ammo for the Big Arms race, we added butter knives...
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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not only hoping for miami, but fsu as well.
May 2, 2012, 4:23 PM
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those 4 schools that left were soooo IMPRESSED with what you're selling, they left, in fact, they had to petition to leave.
they couldn't get out quick enough. makes perfect sense anyone with a choice would beg to be a part of that and it's thin ice future right?
when the big12 champion finishes 12-1, with their only loss a 2ot one on the road, does not make it into the title game, yes, i'd say the sixth ranked bcs conference, whose champion has 3 losses, is irrelevant.
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Legend [16120]
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By your logic, only the SEC is relevant...And what exactly
May 2, 2012, 4:31 PM
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am I trying to sell?
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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long way between at least being in the conversation and
May 2, 2012, 4:36 PM
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being an afterthought. acc is an afterthought until they start winning on the national stage; hopefully miami, fsu and cu fix it sooner than later.
what you're selling? some silly notion that a conference losing 4 long time members is the place to be and is somehow stable compared to adding syracuse and pittsburgh.
http://www.tigernet.com/forums/message.jspa?messageID=12171639
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Legend [16120]
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OSU was in the conversation, the ACC isn't going to get
May 2, 2012, 4:51 PM
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there adding Cuse and Pitt...It was last call and the ACC took home fat girls...And I'm not selling anything, I'm dispensing free sarcasm...I would have thought you would have picked up on it...Doubt you would have bitten the fluff if Franc said it...
prolly would have pointed it...
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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you can gift wrap it anyway you like cm, doesn't change the
May 2, 2012, 5:22 PM
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msg.
i point you often, i point franc often, doesn't mean i have to agree with each of your every msgs even if they're wrapped in pretty, sarcastic, floral print with pithy red bows[someone get franc off the ledge; he'll be inconsolable]...
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Legend [16120]
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Doesn't mean I'm trying to sell anything though...Merely
May 2, 2012, 5:53 PM
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stating my opinion...When all the other conferences were getting state schools where football ins the main emphasis, the ACC raided the Big East for mostly private, mostly BBall schools...In an era where Kentucky makes more $ on football than their BBall team, we are loading up on BBall teams...Lot of good they did the Big East...And lets look at Kansas. A top 10 all time bball program with a title in the last 5 years...Where were they when the Big 12 almost imploded? They were going to be left on the outside. That tells you what BBall means to the Big$ picture...And we are loading up on BBall programs to stabilize our football relevance? Or is the ACC preparing for what happens after the football schools start bolting? Does it not concern you that we keep adding private schools? WE have twice as many private schools as the SEC and Big 10 combined...
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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not when i look at the private schools we're adding cm...
May 2, 2012, 6:28 PM
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daU, cuse and pitts? they're all bigger than clemson, more money, more tradition, national titles in football, heisman trophies...
would i have liked to add UF and UGA instead? absolutely. hopefully psu and nd are still being approached.
would those additions appease you?
or how about fsu, daU and clemson just ####### do what they should be doing?
win!
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Legend [16120]
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PSU? Really?You don't think that giant paycut would be an
May 2, 2012, 10:02 PM
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obstacle?
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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you know these contracts are made to be remade.
May 2, 2012, 11:22 PM
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they've both been approached apparently.
honestly i think there's a better chance OSU & OU take the first opportunity to put one in tejas' back.
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Legend [16213]
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I hope you're not turning the tables and suggesting they
May 2, 2012, 11:34 PM
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join the ACC. I wouldn't put it past Swofford to bet the farm on the state of Oklahoma's # of TV sets to "finally" push the ACC over the top from a media standpoint and "really stick it to" the SEC and Big XII in the process.
Swofford and the ACC, at this juncture, are doing nothing but putting good money after bad. At some point you need to write things off as a loss and move on, while you still can.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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nope, but what would they do if the sec, bigXish or pacXish
May 2, 2012, 11:39 PM
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came calling?
leave.
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Legend [16120]
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But would they bolt for the ACC?***
May 3, 2012, 12:57 AM
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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idk cm, they had 1 foot out the door not long ago. most
May 3, 2012, 1:35 AM
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of the 'talk' i've seen suggests they'll be 15 & 16 in the sec.
yorkie would probably have the best feel for what's up in that neck of the woods.
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110%er [9639]
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The BCS AQ status going away will not hurt the ACC. If they
May 2, 2012, 11:20 AM
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get rid of the "only 2 schools per conference in the BCS" rule, then the ACC will be in trouble.
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110%er [5555]
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Hey moron
May 2, 2012, 11:30 AM
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If you think UNC and their affair with Swofford was bad, Texas is on a whole new level. Before you start calling people morons you toolbox, might want try and understand something from someone else's perspective. I have no idea what route is better, but I know that Texas has ran that conference and is the reason why schools are looking to leave.
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Member [25]
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Re: Hey moron
May 2, 2012, 11:33 AM
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What happens if FSU leaves and Clemson remains? Add ECU? UConn? How about Rutgers?
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Ambassador [6046]
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LOL. If we're invited to the B12 it's because they WANT us
May 2, 2012, 3:28 PM
[ in reply to Hey moron ] |
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unlike UNC who could give two chits about us. LOL. Every conference has it's "favorites" and I'd rather be buddies with the favorite (Texas) than on the outside looking in (UNC).
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110%er [9639]
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With all the differing opinions, I don't know which morons
May 2, 2012, 11:37 AM
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to believe! 
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All-In [27366]
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The one's with a CAPITAL 'M?'***
May 2, 2012, 1:28 PM
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CU Guru [1878]
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4 team tournament will be 8-16 teams in a couple years
May 2, 2012, 11:43 AM
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Your main crutch of this argument is that there are only 4 spots to get into, so winning the ACC won't get us in.
Give it a few years, and we'll have an 8-team tournament with all the major conference champions included plus a couple at larges.
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CU Guru [1620]
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What damage is done during that time?
May 2, 2012, 12:40 PM
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Give it a couple of years? So for that time we have to tell recruits that they won't have a chance to play for a championship? Would be like being put on probation. IPTAY could change their slogan because championships won't be brought from scholarships..Will be playing just for the hell of it.
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CU Guru [1878]
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Re: What damage is done during that time?
May 3, 2012, 2:57 PM
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Tell them that if we win all of our games, we're in?
You're telling me there could be a scenario where 4 teams would have a higher RPI than an undefeated Clemson?
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110%er [7456]
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I love how you say "let's look at the facts"
May 2, 2012, 11:50 AM
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and then list a bunch of hypotheticals/opinions
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Fan [78]
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Is this year and audition of sorts?
May 2, 2012, 1:10 PM
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If clemson were to turn the corner this year, I think that prospective conferences would take not, and we would be an attractive catch. If we beat the coots and Awbarn, along a BCS victory, what conference wouldn't want us? This is a tall order, but it is without a doubt within reach.
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Legend [16213]
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The growth away from regional identity is what is killing
May 2, 2012, 2:39 PM
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the ACC. Why affiliation with the Big XII would be an improvement, save for the mythological dollars that this supposedly comes with, makes no sense at all in that regard. With the Big XII now moving out of its regional footprint, the league will begin to falter - again. That's not an attractive enough alternative to fixing our own league - broken and getting worse.
Despite expert T-net commentary to the contrary, FSU and Clemson will wind up in the SEC within two years, at which time the league will expand to 9 conference games with one cross-divisional permanent rival (ours will be TAMU) and rotating the other seven.
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All-American [580]
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Re: The growth away from regional identity is what is killing
May 2, 2012, 5:01 PM
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SEC? Not according to people in the SEC. It looks to me like you guys are headed for the Big 12. I think that would be a good move.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Nobody cares what you think Neil.***
May 2, 2012, 5:07 PM
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All-American [580]
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Re: Nobody cares what you think Neil.***
May 2, 2012, 5:16 PM
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Evidently you do because you clicked to see what I had to say.
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Rock Defender [53]
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I was looking for a chuckle. Unfortunately your post wasn't
May 2, 2012, 5:23 PM
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as comical as you usually make yourself out to be, but rest assured it was just as irrelevant and meaningless nonetheless. Honestly, Neil, nobody here give's a rat's ### about your opinions, other than to chastise and make fun of them. You don't really think otherwise, do you?
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All-American [580]
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Re: I was looking for a chuckle. Unfortunately your post wasn't
May 2, 2012, 5:36 PM
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Hey, I'm just glad you were and are interested enough to click on when I post.
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Legend [16213]
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I can always depend on a coot to be the first poster to step
May 2, 2012, 10:49 PM
[ in reply to Re: The growth away from regional identity is what is killing ] |
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up and swat down the SEC scenario which, like it or not (and I know you don't like it, I'm not too crazy about it either) is inevitably on its way.
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Recruit [86]
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Re: I can always depend on a coot to be the first poster to step
May 2, 2012, 11:32 PM
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Can Clemson make it into the SEC?
Sure, but a few things need to happen.
Clemson needs to get ESPN and CBS to agree adding Clemson is worth an additional $420+ million (14 X $30 million est.) a year to get the SEC to talk about it.
If Clemson and FSU (that would be $840+ million a year for both) can get ESPN and CBS to agree to that, then USC and UF will have to fight to keep them out. Until either school can get ESPN and CBS to pay another $420 million...then USC and UF don't have to fight against them....no one will vote to lower their revenue!!
After you fix the money issue.....then it comes down to how much money do we need to get to be ok with pissing off USC and UF. Is getting the same amount worth it? Do we need an extra what per team to do it?
Can USC and UF screw Alabama and Tenn with scheduling by adding two more teams? If that game comes into question, then you better hope ESPN has big $$ on wanting Clemson in the SEC because they were willing to tell Texas A&M (those million of TV sets) no over it. Seriously...Clemson and FSU could make it $45 million per team, but if Alabama and UT can't play every year...that is 4 no votes, and that is enough for a not going to happen. UF and USC lose the revenue advantage over their instate rival and Bama/UT don't care about the money vs. that game.
The SEC might do straw polls first, but both Texas A&M and Missouri were both 12-0 votes. No way Clemson/FSU get total support without more $$ backing it!
It is all $$$, and $420 million a year is a lot of money for a team to add to a contract without causing a decrease share of the pie per team.
This is assuming the rumored $420 million per year is true.
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Legend [16213]
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Sorry, I never studied coot math so your post is tough to
May 2, 2012, 11:49 PM
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follow.
I did however study regular math (and geogrpahy as well). The Alabama/Tennessee game, along with UGA/Auburn, are protected with the 9th conference game, plus other permanent cross-division match-ups, which also produces a fair amount of the extra revenue, having that extra conference game and all. USC is in the Pac-12 so I'm not sure why you're referring to them here, but it's late in the evening so no worries.
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All-American [580]
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Re: I can always depend on a coot to be the first poster to step
May 3, 2012, 6:33 AM
[ in reply to Re: I can always depend on a coot to be the first poster to step ] |
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I've tried to explain it to him before. But, he refuses to think rationally and logically about it. He lets his emotions cloud his judgment. Some clemson fans here understand and are thus realistic. This guy is on another planet.
I'll add the following to what you said: When or even if the SEC were to go to 16 teams, they will not do so UNLESS the money per team to the 14 SEC teams INCREASES. SEC teams will not be looking to just not take a pay cut. They will expect that their share will go up. If not, they would be wasting an opportunity that the contract provides. So, the money you indicated to allow clemson in, is under what would actually be needed.
Also, as some clemson fans have indicated, Slive has said that there must be a "unanimous" vote by current SEC teams to bring in a new school. It's not required by the by-laws. But, that apparently is what Slive wants. Guess how Carolina and the others in the "gentlemen's agreement" will vote? LOL.
Regardless, everyone should have dreams. Even this guy.
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Rock Defender [53]
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The SEC could always kick you out and get a more nationally
May 3, 2012, 11:55 AM
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known and respected brand, like Clemson.
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All-American [580]
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LOL.
May 3, 2012, 1:09 PM
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Whatever floats your boat. LOL
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Rock Defender [53]
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Very insightful!
May 3, 2012, 1:13 PM
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Brilliant reply, Neil. A great show of IQ.
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All-American [580]
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Legend [16213]
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Thy doth protest too much, coot.***
May 3, 2012, 11:31 AM
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All-American [580]
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I don't have to protest. It has not happened.
May 3, 2012, 1:07 PM
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You are on the outside looking in, wishfully looking for the SEC to throw you a lifeline. Carolina, on the otherhand, is in a financially secure conference, not looking for an exit. You are the one speculating with a wishful desire. Unless it has happened, that's all it is. You can say all the words you like. Go ahead and say what you want. But after you hit the "click button", you are still on the outside looking in.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Are you a woman, Neil?***
May 3, 2012, 1:09 PM
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Legend [16213]
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Funny how he throws a hissy fit whenever Clemson to
May 3, 2012, 1:15 PM
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the SEC scenario comes up. He's so terrified of the idea that he can't stop whining on about it. Thank God I'm not a coot.
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CU Guru [1895]
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This is overstated and short sighted.
May 2, 2012, 6:18 PM
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It wasn't that long ago that an undefeated SEC champion was left out of the MNC.
You can win a national title in the ACC. Multiple teams have. If we are in the position to compete for one, we will get our chance.
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CU Guru [1198]
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It's About Money, Not Championships
May 2, 2012, 6:44 PM
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The problem with the ACC isn't that Clemson can't win a National Championship playing in it. The problem is that it's way behind the SEC, B1G, Big 12, and PAC12 in terms of revenue.
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CU Guru [1895]
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Re: It's About Money, Not Championships
May 2, 2012, 6:58 PM
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The ACC has plenty of potential there as well.
There is a presence in every major city on the east coast.
Miami, Atlanta, Charlotte, Washington DC, Pittsburgh, Boston, New York (a stretch for football, but definitely for basketball)
Vs. What for the Big 12?
Austin, Dallas, OKC,...
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Legend [16213]
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Unfortunately those major cities you refer to draw much
May 2, 2012, 11:03 PM
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bigger crowds on Sundays.
Dolphins, Falcons, Panthers, Redskins, Steelers, Patriots, Jets and Giants.
When they tune in on Saturdays, they're not watching homebodies, they're watching the best games period (i.e. not likely ACC football). Seriously, can you imagine anybody that's not a Ga.Tech alum tuning in to watch Paul Johnson's offense on television? Or Maryland's game in DC? Or BC's? Anybody's?
Swofford has his head so far up Baby Blue's Bu## that he is totally out of touch with the realities of college sports. He's been peddling a "TV market" bill of goods for far too long to notice that his own conference is the quintessential poster child for why it doesn't work.
Good thing our administration had the ba11s to call him out on the UNC/NCAA quandary. Oh, wait a minute...
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CU Guru [1895]
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People watch when those teams win.
May 3, 2012, 6:16 AM
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Its no different anywhere else.
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Scout Team [171]
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Here's Eight reasons to stay in the ACC..
May 2, 2012, 6:45 PM
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Duke, Wake, UVA , Maryland, BC, Pitt, Syracuse, Ncsu
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Starter [386]
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Obertiger
May 2, 2012, 9:32 PM
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Obertiger,
This is a terrific piece. You made some great points. I couldn't agree with you more.
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Legend [17520]
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Many factors to consider in next 2 months ... but point 2 u
May 3, 2012, 12:42 AM
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for well stated thought provoking post. Two questions:
1) Since BCS playoff format is not established, what happens if an ACC team wins every game by double digits and is ranked in Top 4 (even #1) but ACC is not ranked in Top 4 conferences? I say more BCS anarchy.
2) Why do we believe the Pac 12 will out rank the ACC for automatic BCS Football Final Four entry? Pac 12 has sucked as badly as ACC over recent years.
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110%er [9942]
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WOW!!!!!!!!!!***
May 3, 2012, 4:37 PM
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Addict [400]
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Y'all can write this down
May 3, 2012, 5:01 PM
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Clemson will not be in the SEC in the foreseeable future. The SEC won't pay the 20 mil buyout and Clemson adds nothing to the TV package. Or at least not enough to be able to add to what current members get. And more money is the only reason for expansion. The Big 12 might be an option but I doubt they would be willing to pay the buyout either. It just depends on how desperate they are to find some teams that won't mind playing under the University of Texas. A & M and Missouri left because Texas runs the conference much like UNC runs the ACC. ND will not join the ACC for football. They make far more money as an independent than they would in the ACC. What would ND gain by joining the ACC? They would probably have to give up games with So Cal, Mich, Penn St, Ohio St & others that have become staples in college football.
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Legend [16120]
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When was the last regular season ND played OSU or PSU?
May 4, 2012, 12:40 PM
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In the past 11 years, ND has had a home and home once with PSU and has only played OSU in one bowl game...Eleven years, possible 22 games and they have played 3 times, one being a bowl game...Nice research...
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Walk-On [132]
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Re: BigXII is our ONLY option.
May 3, 2012, 5:06 PM
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Here's why we shouldn't move out of the ACC. Clemson fans live in Georgia and the Carolinas. I know I grew up in Georgia, was obviously in South Carolina for school, and am moving to North Carolina. That means I can commute to about half of our road games. I can go to UNC, Wake, NCSU, Duke, GT, and USC if I'm willing to go to that part of town which I'm not.
Moving to the Big 12 means we can go to 0 road games. There is literally not a single game would could attend. Likewise they couldn't come here so attendance would go down. It's be terrible. What happened to geographic conferences?
If conference championships are considered in the playoff format which they still may be, then the ACC is not screwed.
Check this out. I wrote this based on some articles I read, namely one from CBS Sports. It's about the possibility of having conference champs not in the top four jump at large teams.
http://ryankantor.com/2012/05/03/bcs-pondering-details-of-four-team-playoff-swofford-supports-position-that-will-hurt-acc/
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